What does a frustrated old codger do?

[Mirage10]

I struggle with the concept of one marriage partner effectively holding the other to ransom, because they are not interested in sex, but the rest of the marriage is good. No alternatives given, no other real effort or understanding made, the short-changed spouse is expected to live under the vows of marriage, but its conveniently ignored that one of the cornerstones of marriage is sex.

[elaine567]

I think we can all see ways to improve the situation, but they needed doing 20 years ago really - as soon as the lack of intimacy was becoming apparent.

Of course we can all blame the menopause, but she wasn't menopausal at 40.

We can also all "blame" the wife here, but there are two sides to every story and her interpretation of the events, leading to the situation we have today, may be very different if she was to come on here and relate them to us. The EA although somewhat minimized here, will not be helping the situation any I guess.

 

The OP needs to talk seriously to his wife and put all his concerns, wants and needs out there, clearly and concisely.

But first he needs to decide what he truly wants and weigh up all the possibilities and the likelihood of achieving them.

 

A huge dose of reality needs injected too, he is in his mid sixties and whilst there is always the possibility of romance and a new partner, there is no guarantee she will want sex any more than his wife does and she may not be as compatible in other ways.

NO point in fantasizing about 24/7 sex, if in reality he just doesn't the personal attributes that would attract any "hot" sexy woman away from more appealing subjects.

Many older divorced men live alone and that may be their own choice, but it also needs to be considered here by the OP.

Families tend to gravitate around the mother especially if she is deemed to be the innocent partner.

I do not see much sympathy or understanding, for a father/grandfather leaving a stable and "happy" family home, in order to have sex with other women...

[soleilesquire]

I confess unabashedly that I am bias with compassion for the OP. I KNOW what it does to your...well, everything to be repeatedly rejected, to have the person who promised to love and cherish you basically say "tough luck." Then to reach out for help and have it implied that you are shallow, probably not a good partner (or else your wife would be climbing you like a tree), you should get over it, etc.

 

People who either do not need sex or have never starved for it really cannot fathom the depth of soul-killing this does. It would be like a person who has never been betrayed saying to someone whose spouse had an affair, "Well, how is your marriage otherwise. It was just sex."

 

Because, in my opinion, withholding sex and refusing to even try to meet your partner's intimacy needs is a sexual and marital betrayal.

[b-Shock]

I think we can all see ways to improve the situation, but they needed doing 20 years ago really - as soon as the lack of intimacy was becoming apparent.

 

Absolutely right. Marital intimacy requires trust in the relationship. I would be willing to bet this goes much deeper than physical issues. They need counseling.

[NessunoDorma]

Strewth, I've started a bushfire!

 

 

Thanks for the comments. They are varied and all quite valuable. Except for Liam's. Mate, with respect, your comment re this being compared to me being rendered impotent like via e.g. a radical prostatectomy, fits the conversation like a penis fits a size 12 gumboot. There are no physical reasons. None. But to answer your question: if I couldn't get it up & she needed "real" sex I'd say fine, go for it. Just don't rub my face in it. I would hope feelings don't develop but there's not much I can do if they do. OK?

 

 

So I made her fav risotto, opened a bottle of wine & had The Talk

 

 

I'll paraphrase it in broad brush strokes. I thought about recording it but didn't see the point.

 

 

Me: So here we are. Empty nest. Thanks to your expert homemaking skills & our good parenting we have 4 great kids who are productive members of society. Thanks to my taking risks in business & a bit of luck we are in a good place financially. But the fly in the ointment is that I feel really let down sexually.

 

Her: *eye roll* Not again. It's not that important in the big picture.

 

 

Me: It's important to me because I feel emasculated, un-manly & like I'm the proverbial Dud Root. (Aussie for " a lousy lay".)

 

 

Her: You are NOT a dud root!

 

 

Me: Yeah I'm so good at it that you've wanted sex every 2-3 months for yonks.

 

 

*I expected things to heat up but NOT what came up*

 

 

Her: OK, how about a trial separation.

 

 

* Well **** a brick! Talk about an Empathy Free Zone. This is the 3rd time that has been "offered". 1st was ~ 15 years in when she was grieving the death of someone close. I had young children & a business just hitting its stride so no way! We got over it. 2nd was ~30 years in when I was busted having an EA and my counsellor said it would have been 50-50 that the teenaged Holy Terror, who was having severe issues, would go off the reservation. So again, I stepped back. THIS time it's different!*

 

 

Me: OK that leaves me free to get a casual FWB.

 

 

Her: Good luck with that! WE know that in the domain of casual sex, cocks are abundant but vaginas are scarce. Remember the Ashley Madison farce? It seemed for every genuine female there were hundreds of males.

 

 

Me: True but in our age bracket, I've got a good chance.

 

 

Her: Really? An attractive girl in her sixties looking to hook up could easily get someone one much younger than you. You'd end up with the dregs.

*She has 2 good friends who have re-partnered with men 10-15 years their junior*

 

 

Me: (only half joking- she IS right) Well I'd protect myself with condoms & a big paper bag to put over her head if she has a face like a broken pie.

OK so lets separate. Holy Terror is in our CBD (downtown) apartment free of charge till she gets established. I'll move her out, move in & start OLD. I'm not short, got most of my hair, am financially independent & can cook. I like my chances. I'll SAY I'm looking for a LTR but I'll just churn & burn every 5-6 months.

BTW we'd better announce it & that dinner party in 4 weeks that I'm catering for needs to be cancelled.

 

 

Her: * the sound of crickets chirping for a few minutes* Well fine! If THAT's how you feel, I going to bed.

 

 

To say the atmosphere is icy is a gross understatement.

[BlueIris]

You've given you the OK to find someone else.

 

So tell her that you’re going to take her at her work, start looking and would like to have a cooperative, respectful divorce. You're ok with that, right? I'm getting a bit of a sense that you're angry about it.

[RecentChange]

Well OP, sorry it went that way!!!

 

I know some people can't comprehend it - but I hoped she would have given you some sort of "open relationship" option. People act as if mistresses had never existed along side marriages... They certainly do.

 

Look, I wasn't getting enough sex and attention at home (I am a mid 30's female) - and when I got caught cheating (sex only, not emotional - and he knows this is something I am very capable of) - he offered to allow me to have a side guy for sex if that is what would make me happy. Because he loves me, and wants me to be happy!

 

Instead I am trying to improve our sex life at home which has been successful so far - because the other option sounded complicated..

 

Kinda hoped your wife would say "I love you, and want you to be happy" and gave you a similar option. Guess not, she is going with the "I dont need sex, and don't care about your needs enough to care if you arent getting any" option :/

[soleilesquire]

Like I said, she's selfish.

 

This ain't about "deeper problems." It rarely is.

[Mr. Lucky]

To say the atmosphere is icy is a gross understatement.

 

Sorry to hear. Keep us posted, she may feel differently once she sleeps on the idea. Truth be told, so might you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Popsicle]

Wow, that interaction almost sounds unreal.

 

A trail separation, huh? I don't even know what that is....

 

I guess that's where you get to continue to get all the benefits of marriage while also getting the benefits of being single all without feeling like you're breaking any vows.

 

Sounds like a win to me.

[NessunoDorma]

Wow, that interaction almost sounds unreal.

 

A trail separation, huh? I don't even know what that is....

 

I guess that's where you get to continue to get all the benefits of marriage while also getting the benefits of being single all without feeling like you're breaking any vows.

 

Sounds like a win to me.

 

Pops, it WAS surreal!

 

 

Where the F did it (separation) come from?? There was no misdeed or mistake. It's extremely worrisome.

 

 

I'm pissed but not at all fearful this time.

 

 

The collateral damage will be minimal, but, what a damn shame. A real shame.

[spanz1]

who knows. but if I were you I would start by getting her to be tested for hormonal issues. I have talked with women who are on bioidentical seeds, and they report being horny like teenagers...until the seed runs out and then they are back to not caring about sex, and have to run to the doctor for another one.

 

 

If you wife refuses to go, or just shrugs when you beg for sex...why not ask her for a hall pass? at least YOU can have some fun that way

[spanz1]

Unfortunately, for some women of the OP's generation, PIV sex *is* sex and, if not interested/unable, then there is no alternative.

 

Getting older, I've imagined penis not working and, heck, that's one tool in a big toolbox of expressing sexual love and connection; however, that occurs because of lack of inhibitions about expressing love through sex.

.

 

 

yes, relying on PIV only sex will be a problem when you age Maybe expand your horizon a little when younger to incorporate kinky alternatives, and then you have more than a one trick pony to ride in your '60's

[spanz1]

Wow, that interaction almost sounds unreal.

 

A trail separation, huh? I don't even know what that is....

.

 

I wonder if YOU were the only one having an EA in this marriage. she is really eager to get you out of the way. have you done any snooping? Her emails, her phone, credit card bills....you do know that one sign a woman is cheating on you is that the sex drops off to nothing.

 

 

and about the hall pass, that would be a much more practical way for you to have sex than a separation or divorce. and by separation, exactly WHO leaves the house to live in a crappy apartment? You? guess again, kick her azz out the door.

Edited February 20, 2016 by spanz1

[elaine567]

YOU have to stop the suggestions you are going to go and get someone else for sex, IF you want to save your marriage here.

 

Telling a Betrayed Spouse, you are again going to step out of your marriage as a threat, is frankly cruel.

[soleilesquire]

YOU have to stop the suggestions you are going to go and get someone else for sex, IF you want to save your marriage here.

 

Telling a Betrayed Spouse, you are again going to step out of your marriage as a threat, is frankly cruel.

 

Sorry. Withholding for 20 years pretty much means you don't get to tell your spouse not to be frustrated.

[NessunoDorma]

It's 1am. Can't sleep.

 

 

Another terse exchange last night.

 

 

Her: I can't believe you're walking away from almost half a century of great history for something as trivial as sex.

 

 

Me: Hey! You proposed it. Trivial?? Of all the things we can do for recreation, name something better than sex.

(a) It provides heaps of pleasure

(b) It's good for you physically- heart gets pumping, blood flowing, skin tingles etc.

© It's good for you psychologically- generates lots of bonding hormones.

(d) It's absolutely free!

We both like food & wine, and, whilst we can overdo them, it's impossible to have too much sex. When 2 people live as a couple & have bugger all sex there has to be a reason. What could it be?

 

 

Her: That's obvious. My libido fell off a cliff & I've gone off having sex.

 

 

Me: You left out 2 words: "I've gone off having sex WITH YOU".

 

 

Her: That does not follow!

 

 

Me: Are you banging other men?

 

 

Her: Of course not!

 

 

Me: If you had 2-3 guys on the side & you stopped screwing ALL of us you could say "Sorry boys, I've gone off sex". Do you recall going to your GP many years ago & asking for meds to boost your libido? I think her reply was "Find out first if you desire your husband." Has it occurred to you that maybe you've been banging the wrong man?

 

 

Her: *No words. Just a foul look* Then:I'm going to bed!

 

 

I'm sure she expects me to back down and accept the status quo.

 

 

Ain't gonna happen. I still love & desire the girl I married & mother of my children & I want us to go on. But I refuse to pay the price I've been paying.

Edited February 20, 2016 by NessunoDorma

[BlueIris]

She doesn’t want sex and you do. The writing is on the wall- and really has been for a long time. There's nothing wrong with telling her that you just can't live without sex the rest of your life.

 

Tell her that you value what you’ve had all these years, but you can’t live without sex the rest of your life, so you agree that separation and divorce is the way to go. Tell her you want to do it amicably and give her some time to digest it, at least a few weeks.

 

I divorced my husband because he didn’t and wouldn’t give me something I felt I needed to be happy. It was painful to realize that he just wasn’t going to, but I had to decide and then take action. He saw himself as the victim, since I filed, but there’s not much we can do about how the spouse views it, except keep being fair and respectful, even if she doesn’t see it.

[NessunoDorma]

If you had had sex more often, you probably would have had 12 kids.

 

 

 

Ahh Pops!

 

 

I just noticed this!

 

 

I needed that. Thanks for cheering me up!

 

 

Yes, I have a history of winning prizes for the Neatest Correct Entry.

[SammySammy]

I don't understand how people don't see how destructive denying intimacy and affection to their partner can be to the relationship. It's not trivial!

 

So sad, but so common.

 

smh

[BlueIris]

I don't understand how people don't see how destructive denying intimacy and affection to their partner can be to the relationship. It's not trivial!

 

So sad, but so common.

 

smh

 

I definitely understand and agree. My marriage also ended because my husband either wouldn’t or couldn’t give what I needed. It can be a blow to have it out in the open after years of being an undercurrent or an unspoken truth. In a way, though, it can also be a relief when it’s out in the open because it frees you to do what you need to do.

[elaine567]

I don't understand how people don't see how destructive denying intimacy and affection to their partner can be to the relationship. It's not trivial!

 

So sad, but so common.

 

smh

 

But this has not just happened last week, this is 20 years of little sex (every 2-3 months), so why WOULD she think it was an important part of her marriage?

[soleilesquire]

But this has not just happened last week, this is 20 years of little sex (every 2-3 months), so why WOULD she think it was an important part of her marriage?

 

Yup. She's been a self-absorbed, thoughtless woman for 20 years. Wasting one more minute making nice is ludicrous.

[Dolfin80]

It's 1am. Can't sleep.

 

 

Another terse exchange last night.

 

 

Her: I can't believe you're walking away from almost half a century of great history for something as trivial as sex.

 

 

Me: Hey! You proposed it. Trivial?? Of all the things we can do for recreation, name something better than sex.

(a) It provides heaps of pleasure

(b) It's good for you physically- heart gets pumping, blood flowing, skin tingles etc.

© It's good for you psychologically- generates lots of bonding hormones.

(d) It's absolutely free!

We both like food & wine, and, whilst we can overdo them, it's impossible to have too much sex. When 2 people live as a couple & have bugger all sex there has to be a reason. What could it be?

 

 

Her: That's obvious. My libido fell off a cliff & I've gone off having sex.

 

 

Me: You left out 2 words: "I've gone off having sex WITH YOU".

 

 

Her: That does not follow!

 

 

Me: Are you banging other men?

 

 

Her: Of course not!

 

 

Me: If you had 2-3 guys on the side & you stopped screwing ALL of us you could say "Sorry boys, I've gone off sex". Do you recall going to your GP many years ago & asking for meds to boost your libido? I think her reply was "Find out first if you desire your husband." Has it occurred to you that maybe you've been banging the wrong man?

 

 

Her: *No words. Just a foul look* Then:I'm going to bed!

 

 

I'm sure she expects me to back down and accept the status quo.

 

 

Ain't gonna happen. I still love & desire the girl I married & mother of my children & I want us to go on. But I refuse to pay the price I've been paying.

 

Really you love her? Than why are you treating her so poorly. There is no way I'd be having sex with you if you ever spoke to me that way. You are emotionally abusive to your wife. I am shocked that you would kick your daughter out of her home so you can move in join a dating website in order to get sex. Absolutely disgusting. I live in Aust and I really hope I don't bump into you on the street.

 

You need to see a therapist about your obsession with sex. Tell your therapist that you want to kick your own daughter out of her home, so you can have a root there from someone you meet on an Internet site. That is just so bizarre, who treats their daughter this way?

 

Please don't join an Internet site here in Aust, us women don't want to meet you. Look how you treat your own wife!

Edited February 20, 2016 by Dolfin80

[soleilesquire]

Really you love her? Than why are you treating her so poorly. There is no way I'd be having sex with you if you ever spoke to me that way. You are emotionally abusive to your wife. I am shocked that you would kick your daughter out of her home so you can move in join a dating website in order to get sex. Absolutely disgusting. I live in Aust and I really hope I don't bump into you on the street.

 

You need to see a therapist about your obsession with sex. Tell your therapist that you want to kick your own daughter out of her home, so you can have a root there from someone you meet on an Internet site. That is just so bizarre, who treats their daughter this way?

 

Please don't join an Internet site here in Aust, us women don't want to meet you. Look how you treat your own wife!

 

I don't think we have read this same thread. This woman has starved her husband for 20 years, and she outright belittles his needs. This is a selfish woman with truly sad character.

 

Any woman who withholds and uses sex as a weapon this way gets zero sympathy from me.