Men shooting themselves in the foot by not agreeing to "friendships" with women

[LookAtThisPOst]

I had a female friend tell me in an in-depth conversation about dating that she had been out with guys here and there from online dating and just in general where she wanted to just go out "as friends".

 

Some men tend to go along with these conditions for the purpose of just being in her company and being rather hopeful it could be more than that.

 

She has run into men that would refuse these conditions and she feels that they are really doing themselves a disservice by not agreeing to this because...

 

1. This could open up an opportunity to have him come into HER social network of other single female friends as dating prospects.

 

2. If he had stuck it out long enough "as friends" who knows, it probably could have turn into something more...but...he blew it."

 

The latter I have a hard time buying into this, considering if a woman isn't attracted, she just isn't attracted but to ascribe to the fact "Well, if he stuck around in my life long enough, it could have turned into something else."

 

It kind of irritated me that she said this...as a woman...and she actually believes it? How honest is she with herself?

 

Women, did you have any frame of mind that if a guy wrote you off after you offered only a platonic friendship that you said, "Well, he blew it, he could have had something good."?

 

There's another argument that women make (not being sexist, but a lot of women have said this)..that if a man isn't okay with a friendship, it means he just wants to get in her pants and nothing more.

 

I feel that is a serious cop-out, and is just a deluded comment to suggest such a thing. Usually it's a type of affirmation she gives herself to make herself feel better.

 

Her: "We can go out, but only as friends"

 

Him: "Sorry, I want more than just a friendship with you, I want to go out on a date with you."

 

Her: "Oh, you just want to get in my pants! Shame on you!"

 

Him: ??? That's like 1 + 1 = Orange.

 

Thoughts?

[PegNosePete]

My thoughts are that her logic is seriously flawed, as you point out. But if that's how she wants to live her life, if that screening method works for her, then good luck to her.

[GoodOnPaper]

Her: "Oh, you just want to get in my pants! Shame on you!"

 

When I was young, I fell for this kind of guilt trip all the time - it always turned out to be a friendzone trap or a filter for guys with too many "nice guy" tendencies. If I work up the courage to ask a woman out on a 1-on-1 date, I certainly don't envision us being "just friends" going in - at least wait for the date to not go well before slapping that label on. If a woman truly wants to get to know a guy as "friends" only, wouldn't a group setting be better, anyway?

[road]

There is no benefit to having a girl friend when a man wants a girlfriend. And to hang around just for the chance to get passed on to one of her friends that are no where as desirable as the original woman that he wanted for a girlfriend.

 

 

Lets face it. If her female friends as her, to quote a song "stacey's mom has it go' in on", they also will not be lacking men chasing after them as well.

 

 

So a man is to accept a woman just as a friend so he can keep boosting her ego, keeping dead spots from happening in her social life, just for her attractive friends to also friend zone you or for her to fix a man up with the Lee sisters, Beast, Ghast, and Ugh, and their cousin Home.

[LookAtThisPOst]

If a woman truly wants to get to know a guy as "friends" only, wouldn't a group setting be better, anyway?

 

Funny you mention that. This woman expressed how one of these men she met through Meetup events said this to her, "Well, if you don't want to go out on a date with me, then I'll just see you at the next group event."

 

She was kind of left with a shrugged shoulders at him, but apparently this is a pattern with me she's been trying to go out with.

 

I know this woman in real life, and even in her profile she has a "looking to make friends" comment that guys should see as a red flag of sorts.

[LookAtThisPOst]

My thoughts are that her logic is seriously flawed, as you point out. But if that's how she wants to live her life, if that screening method works for her, then good luck to her.

 

Believe it or not, I've come across quite a few women like have this process and they are just baffled when some men don't succumb to it. Like they are the jerks for not going along with it.

 

I have had some women experience this when they say, "We can go out as friends" and the guy goes, "Sorry no, I want more" and sometime they are okay with it.

 

Some women see it as a form of "networking" if you become her friend, she could introduce you to HER friends.

[PegNosePete]

Some women see it as a form of "networking" if you become her friend, she could introduce you to HER friends.

That makes no sense. It may have been true in the past where social circles were much smaller, but there are millions of women in the world. Why would her friends be more likely to want to date you than a random woman off the street? Especially when the first thing her friends will ask her is, if this guy's so great why aren't you dating him?

[Wewon]

There are several problems with her self-serving line of thought.

 

I've seen plenty of male/female friendships that were strong and lasted years to the benefit of both parties. I've also seen male/female friendships implode. The ones that failed did so for 2 reasons:

 

1) The Harry met Sally reason, the a guy wanted to get her into bed was only true a fraction of the time, but it does happen. Yes, there are some guys that are simply putting in time to get things romantic.

 

2) The most common source of male/female friendship failing is that although the woman wants to call it "friends" she still wants to be courted and given priority like a girlfriend, not simply as his platonic friend. This is what happens the majority of the time. Its not sustainable and causes resentment. You essentially have a lop-sided relationship.

 

I bet that this woman doesn't plan to go dutch, she also won't be supportive any romantic relationship that starts to eclipse the friendship. There's a reason that she holds out the "you never know what will happen in time" angle. In her mind, he better keep in mind that he's in a never ending probationary period waiting for the 'happen' to come to pass.

 

The next crappy part of this is that if they guy revisits the romantic aspect of things, she will likely act as though he as pulled the wool over her eyes and pretend to be offended herself.

[LookAtThisPOst]

There are several problems with her self-serving line of thought.

 

I've seen plenty of male/female friendships that were strong and lasted years to the benefit of both parties. I've also seen male/female friendships implode. The ones that failed did so for 2 reasons:

 

1) The Harry met Sally reason, the a guy wanted to get her into bed was only true a fraction of the time, but it does happen. Yes, there are some guys that are simply putting in time to get things romantic.

 

2) The most common source of male/female friendship failing is that although the woman wants to call it "friends" she still wants to be courted and given priority like a girlfriend, not simply as his platonic friend. This is what happens the majority of the time. Its not sustainable and causes resentment. You essentially have a lop-sided relationship.

 

I bet that this woman doesn't plan to go dutch, she also won't be supportive any romantic relationship that starts to eclipse the friendship. There's a reason that she holds out the "you never know what will happen in time" angle. In her mind, he better keep in mind that he's in a never ending probationary period waiting for the 'happen' to come to pass.

 

The next crappy part of this is that if they guy revisits the romantic aspect of things, she will likely act as though he as pulled the wool over her eyes and pretend to be offended herself.

 

I give her credit, that she's insists on going dutch with her male friends. Not sure if it makes much of a difference though as far as monetarily who is paying for whom.

 

Some men refuse the dutch arrangement as well, because it falls under the same wheelhouse of "friends only". So they move on to a woman that will LET them pay and of course, on the same page when it comes to a romantic mindset.

 

The next crappy part of this is that if they guy revisits the romantic aspect of things, she will likely act as though he as pulled the wool over her eyes and pretend to be offended herself.

 

I think what happens here he goes along with the whole "going out as friends" schtick. I recall one time this guy tried to get close to her in a movie theater, invading her space in the seat next to her. She got up and moved to another seat. lol That didn't go over well with him.

 

She told me, that when she tells guys they can go out as friends, they go "SUUUUUUuuurre...I'll go out 'as friends' with you" as he winks to an unknown fourth wall audience.

 

Of course, then he's being deceptive and THAT'S the offending part to women.

Edited February 15, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[dreamingoftigers]

That makes no sense. It may have been true in the past where social circles were much smaller, but there are millions of women in the world. Why would her friends be more likely to want to date you than a random woman off the street? Especially when the first thing her friends will ask her is, if this guy's so great why aren't you dating him?

 

Actually, apparently the best thing a guy can do to get more dates IS rely on female friends. From "Why Men Marry Some Women But Not Others."

 

Networking with women is a viable way to meet other women. Same reason with men with sisters often have more partners overall. They have a sister that filters, matches and intros for them more often than not.

 

As well, of a woman is having trouble meeting men, the most statistically helpful suggestion she can do is make more female friends and tell them she is actively looking.

 

I can see why this woman is telling men she wants to be friends. (It's flawed, because it sends totally the wrong message to men). She has bought into the age-old adage of "we started off as friends," which is an old relationship story. My mother claims the same thing about my father. But he actively pursued her. I thought similar about my husband. We were friends until he basically said "okay sure, we'll be friends" and then checked out another girl in front of me. LMAO. Enough of that friend sh*t.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Actually, apparently the best thing a guy can do to get more dates IS rely on female friends. From "Why Men Marry Some Women But Not Others."

 

Networking with women is a viable way to meet other women. Same reason with men with sisters often have more partners overall. They have a sister that filters, matches and intros for them more often than not.

 

As well, of a woman is having trouble meeting men, the most statistically helpful suggestion she can do is make more female friends and tell them she is actively looking.

 

I can see why this woman is telling men she wants to be friends. (It's flawed, because it sends totally the wrong message to men). She has bought into the age-old adage of "we started off as friends," which is an old relationship story. My mother claims the same thing about my father. But he actively pursued her. I thought similar about my husband. We were friends until he basically said "okay sure, we'll be friends" and then checked out another girl in front of me. LMAO. Enough of that friend sh*t.

 

 

For a long time, everytime I heard a "how we met story" between a married couple or a non-married couple, they would ALWAYS say, "We knew each other for a long time" or "we were friends for a long time."

 

I knew of a guy that was friends with a woman for an entire year, before they started to date. They even got engaged, but the engagement broke up. lol

 

But...when I hear these stories, I think there's incomplete truths to it, and when you try to question what happened from beginning to end, they'd always have holes in their stories.

 

Sometimes I wondered...if they just settled because no one else came along and they figured they "I married my best friend how we met story" would be more sweet to tell friends.

 

When their single friends, esp. the MALE ones hear this, they go that direction IN their dating methods and wind up being friend zoned left and right,up and down and they are bangin' their heads against the wall saying, "Well, my married friend Charlie said they were 'friends' before they starte dating..."

 

They feel shorted because the whole "be friends first" thing has never worked for them the way their own married or involved friends have.

 

This leads them to believe, over time, that there's MORE to their "How we met story." They think they are fooling someone when they say this.

 

Or, these women finally switched gears suddenly and decided to date their friend. Apparently, women seem to have control over turning a friendship into a relationship or not. It's like "We'll be friends, until I decide if I want things to get romantic between us."

[elaine567]

Lookatthispost tends to talk about an older age group of women, women who are, in the main, divorced or separated or burnt from previous encounters and I think some of those, do not want to repeat past mistakes.

So whilst searing hot, instant attraction is somewhat important, it may not be as important to some of those older women looking for real relationships, as finding a person who is pleasant, compatible and a decent person. That is where friendship comes in and where a potentially slow-burning attraction can develop.

So whilst I agree young men should definitely avoid being friend zoned, I think older men may, like the woman says, be shooting themselves in the foot, by refusing friendship.

[d0nnivain]

If by friendship the woman who said this to the OP means a period of time where 2 people get to know each other without immediately jumping into sex, she is missing the point of dating, which is supposed to be just that: a get to know you phase.

 

 

People now rush things & behaviors that were once reserved for marriage (sex) are now happening within the 1st 3 meets (the 3 date rule).

 

 

The problem is the labels have gotten people all mixed up.

 

 

If the lady in Q clarified her vocabulary she may have more success achieving her goal: having a solid foundation before sex or commitment.

[LookAtThisPOst]

If by friendship the woman who said this to the OP means a period of time where 2 people get to know each other without immediately jumping into sex, she is missing the point of dating, which is supposed to be just that: a get to know you phase.

 

 

People now rush things & behaviors that were once reserved for marriage (sex) are now happening within the 1st 3 meets (the 3 date rule).

 

 

The problem is the labels have gotten people all mixed up.

 

 

If the lady in Q clarified her vocabulary she may have more success achieving her goal: having a solid foundation before sex or commitment.

 

I do agree in the foundation being built based off friendship, but if the guy isn't going to get a kiss good night nor even a mild form of affection like hand holding, he's just wasting his time.

 

I disagree on the older vs younger groups. Most younger aged millennials tend to be okay with being friends as they have a lot of time on their hands to do so.

 

But when men get older, they are at a stage in their mortality where they feel, "I don't want to waste my time on this person if they won't even let me touch them with a ten foot pole."

 

You don't even have to have sex, what's wrong with cuddling, a kiss good night, spooning with each other at a outdoor event (standing up watching a concert).

 

I had to deal with women "friends" wanting to keep a buffer between us when we went out.

 

I knew of a guy that would bring a woman to a party with him, thinking they were on a date, when she thought they were just friends...so he thought that by putting his hand on the small of her back when asking, "I'm going for drinks, hon, can I get you one?" in front of others was rather uncomfortable for her.

 

They weren't on the same page obviously.

 

But, the object her isn't to RUSH things, but to make sure if there's an attraction or romantic interest at all...initially...to see if even a FIRST date is warranted.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I asked a woman out from a Meetup group, yes she was single and she said, "If you're asking me out for anything other than friendship, then I'm not interested, but I appreciate the invite."

 

I said, "Okay, I appreciate your honesty." and I moved on.

 

When I told this scenario to the woman I just spoke of here that kept putting walls up in declaring friends with these guys she said, "So, you aren't open to being friends with her?" as if it was silly that I didn't go along with it.

 

And I said, "Nope, why waste my time?"

 

She said, "Well, I guess different people have different agendas."

[d0nnivain]

You are correct that dating should include some physical contact: hand holding, light kissing etc. The standing spooning thing might be a bit much but then again to me that is a lot of PDA. I don't stand around like that with my husband.

 

 

My point remains the same that I think people rush to sex too fast sometimes & labels confuse things.

 

 

As a guy I might press for a bit more clarity on what a woman who says she wants friendship really means by that. But she may not have the words to answer making it doubly hard.

[deckard11]

I hate it when women pull this let's go out but just as friends crap. If I wanted a friend then I'll just go buy a cat.

[red.velvet]

Hmmmm.... As a woman I would agree that her analogy is flawed.. To some extent. I mean, a guy is allowed not to want friendship.

 

However, some friendship can blossom to something more. A lady can have a guy friend, spend lots of time with him, until emotions start coming in play...

 

But I don't think any guy should sit around on the friendzone hop on the lady will change her mind. That's self torture.

[WaitingForBardot]

To me there is a difference between friends first and romantic intent but wanting to wait for sex. If a woman said the former to me I would assume she had no romantic interest and IME this has been true. I have always becomes friends with my partners as romance bloomed, but I have no interest in being friends with a woman I desire romantically outside of that romance. So friends first, no, waiting for sex, under the right circumstances, yes.

[LookAtThisPOst]

To me there is a difference between friends first and romantic intent but wanting to wait for sex. If a woman said the former to me I would assume she had no romantic interest and IME this has been true. I have always becomes friends with my partners as romance bloomed, but I have no interest in being friends with a woman I desire romantically outside of that romance. So friends first, no, waiting for sex, under the right circumstances, yes.

 

Right, rule of them for us single men...to never be friends with a woman you want to date and be friends with women you don't want to date.

[xxoo]

To me there is a difference between friends first and romantic intent but wanting to wait for sex. If a woman said the former to me I would assume she had no romantic interest and IME this has been true. I have always becomes friends with my partners as romance bloomed, but I have no interest in being friends with a woman I desire romantically outside of that romance. So friends first, no, waiting for sex, under the right circumstances, yes.

 

What does it mean to desire a woman romantically?

 

Do men feel romantic desire for women they've recently met?

[SwordofFlame]

There are several problems with her self-serving line of thought.

 

I've seen plenty of male/female friendships that were strong and lasted years to the benefit of both parties. I've also seen male/female friendships implode. The ones that failed did so for 2 reasons:

 

1) The Harry met Sally reason, the a guy wanted to get her into bed was only true a fraction of the time, but it does happen. Yes, there are some guys that are simply putting in time to get things romantic.

 

2) The most common source of male/female friendship failing is that although the woman wants to call it "friends" she still wants to be courted and given priority like a girlfriend, not simply as his platonic friend. This is what happens the majority of the time. Its not sustainable and causes resentment. You essentially have a lop-sided relationship.

 

I bet that this woman doesn't plan to go dutch, she also won't be supportive any romantic relationship that starts to eclipse the friendship. There's a reason that she holds out the "you never know what will happen in time" angle. In her mind, he better keep in mind that he's in a never ending probationary period waiting for the 'happen' to come to pass.

 

The next crappy part of this is that if they guy revisits the romantic aspect of things, she will likely act as though he as pulled the wool over her eyes and pretend to be offended herself.

 

I've only experienced number 2 happening. Which is why I don't do the "friends first" approach to dating anymore. If you're only going to treat me like a platonic friend, why should I treat you like a romantic interest?

[Revolver]

Females hooking up male friends with their single female friends is a myth. It's one of those things that sounds good in theory but rarely happens.

[Popsicle]

Gay guys make great friends.

[JuneJulySeptember]

MIf we really have a lot in common and she is a good woman, then I'm totally open to being friends.

 

I'm friends with two of my exes and haven't touched either in many years. The fact that I want to is meaningless, because there's women I want to sleep with at work too who are taken and off limits and range from age 22 to almost 60. So, there's that.

 

Now if you have feelings, then that's different.

 

But I'll put aside sex and pride to hang out with someone and have good conversation any day (haven't always thought that way). Life is short.

 

For most women though, they don't really want to be friends. Many of them are either 'boyfriend or nada' too. It's just something they say to get you off their back.

Edited February 15, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember