Men shooting themselves in the foot by not agreeing to "friendships" with women

[LookAtThisPOst]

Also to mention that people can be lovers before they've actually had sex.

 

I can presume that you mean kissing, hand holding, cuddling, or any non-sexual affectionate activities, right?

[hotpotato]

So you would prefer the friends first phrasing vs saying simply no casual sex or prefer to wait for sex? And if so, why? Just curious...

 

I would probably say friends first as that implies we will get to know each other. I've also had men pretend to like me and pretend they wanted to be my boyfriend. I could see that happening more if i say no casual sex or prefer to wait.

[hotpotato]

I never been that type of guy but part of me can understand it since the man is expected to pay for dates. Now it doesn't have to be sex but atleast a guy should have kissed her by the 2nd date.

 

For me it's easier to kiss when we are alone in a relaxed environment versus a busy city street. I remember after date 2 this woman looked like she wanted me to kiss her and I was like....."here? now? I mean can we go inside the car or something

 

Most guys want full on sex by the first date. That's why i think if i ever get around to dating again, i'll be moving away from simple movie and dinner dates. My last first date was dinner and bowling. In the future i'll be more things like that and going to museums, physically active things, going for coffee, spending time downtown. Things that are very cheap but more interactive than dinner and a movie. A lot of guys feel like "Hey i spent $12 for you to eat, so let's have sex."

[Jj66]

I understand that people may want to wait before having sex. That's all well and good. But when it comes down to it, I don't kiss my friends. I kiss my lovers. If you think I'm going to wait for a friendship to have time to develop before I kiss you, we are quite obviously incompatible.

[Jj66]

Most guys want full on sex by the first date. That's why i think if i ever get around to dating again, i'll be moving away from simple movie and dinner dates. My last first date was dinner and bowling. In the future i'll be more things like that and going to museums, physically active things, going for coffee, spending time downtown. Things that are very cheap but more interactive than dinner and a movie. A lot of guys feel like "Hey i spent $12 for you to eat, so let's have sex."

 

A movie is a horrible date idea when you are just getting to know someone (first few dates). This is the kind of thing you might do after you know them a bit.

[WaitingForBardot]

I would probably say friends first as that implies we will get to know each other. I've also had men pretend to like me and pretend they wanted to be my boyfriend. I could see that happening more if i say no casual sex or prefer to wait.

Yeah, I follow.

 

My POV is that I am (or would be, I'm married) looking for romance, not friends. I don't mind if I have to wait a bit to have sex with a potential romantic partner, but I don't want to go to the time and trouble to become just friends first on the off chance it can develop into more. Again I think we're all on the same page, it really just boils down to semantics.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Nearly all my relationships have started as sex on the first meet and most have been stable. That some of them lasted longer than others is no different than for people who started as friends first.

 

This is quite an anomoly...I think, as most men...once they got what they want (some arse)...they never called the lady back...they just hop from woman to woman. In your case, it turned into something long term...why do you think this is?

[4kad]

This is quite an anomoly...I think, as most men...once they got what they want (some arse)...they never called the lady back...they just hop from woman to woman. In your case, it turned into something long term...why do you think this is?

 

Or situations which can be very sad. I knew a girl who met a guy from plenty of fish and had sex on the first date and ended up getting pregnant

 

so sad. I can't believe she could be that stupid

[Imajerk17]

I see a new thread of yours was merged w this thread. Anyway, answering the question you posed in your new thread….

 

It seems silly to me to be thinking too much about what a woman **you haven't even communicated with yet** (I am assuming anyway) meant by "friends first". It could be anything from a hedge against overeager guys who try to bed-n-wed her on the first date (in that case, good for her), to code for 'I don't want to get romantic or physical but I still want you to take me on platonic dates anyway' (less likely in general but in that case, run). It's just as likely to not mean anything. She meets someone she is really into and she wants to get w him physically and couple-up quickly herself.

 

Are you interested in said woman OP? Have you written her yet? Has she written you?

 

ETA: I read your follow-up posts on here LATP. If she truly is on a dating site looking for 'just friends', then as you want more, don't bother.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Imajerk17

[4kad]

I see a new thread of yours was merged w this thread. Anyway, answering the question you posed in your new thread….

 

It seems silly to me to be thinking too much about what a woman **you haven't even communicated with yet** (I am assuming anyway) meant by "friends first". It could be anything from a hedge against overeager guys who try to bed-n-wed her on the first date (in that case, good for her), to code for 'I don't want to get romantic or physical but I still want you to take me on platonic dates anyway' (less likely in general but in that case, run). It's just as likely to not mean anything. She meets someone she is really into and she wants to get w him physically and couple-up quickly herself.

 

Are you interested in said woman OP? Have you written her yet? Has she written you?

 

ETA: I read your follow-up posts on here LATP. If she truly is on a dating site looking for 'just friends', then as you want more, don't bother.

 

 

I'm old enough to know that if a woman says that in her profile she is not talking about platonic friends.

[Mrlonelyone]

Friends first is the most natural way to do it. However, it has to happen organically.

 

Evolutionarily speaking, for most of human history we lived in small groups which gathered together at various times (say when a certian grove of trees were fruiting or certain game hearding...). When they met up single men and women would see women and men that they had known their whole lives and choose a mate from that group. Then for that last 10,000 years you mated with who lived in the same farming village as you. You knew them all your life.

 

Since no one in their right mind would make babies with an enemy everyone who ever married were friends and allies first... red hot sexuality was a distant second.

[Mysterio]

In my head. I think a woman that has a friend first relationship with a man, gets much more out of it. Than a Man that just wants a female friend.

 

Most men want a relationship with a woman where there is some affection for the most part.

[LookAtThisPOst]

In my head. I think a woman that has a friend first relationship with a man, gets much more out of it. Than a Man that just wants a female friend.

 

Most men want a relationship with a woman where there is some affection for the most part.

 

Yeah, I have a female friend that goes the "friends first" route, but all those relationships turn into friendships because the guy doesn't receive even a kiss from her sometimes.

 

She is kind of a little TOO reserved and the guy winds up moving on, and she gets upset that he didn't stick it out longer.

 

She's not the flirty type at all, so guys figure that he's not FEELING it from her, so they move on to someone that does. She doesn't have the typical indicators of "interest" that most women have.

[TheWoman]

I've got looking for friends on my dating profile. But having read this thread, I think I will change it. It is clearly open to many interpretations.

 

For me, it does not mean I am looking to 'friendzone' some poor guy into buying me dinners, lol. It does mean please do not bombard me with sex talk before we have met and do not put a whole lot of relationship pressure on the situation. I do not want to go on a romantic dinner with someone I do not know at all.

 

What I specifically mean by it is that...

 

1.I want some banter on message and text before we agree to meet, to establish if we have a compatible sense of very dry humour.

 

2. If we meet, its just a meet. To see if we fancy each other, or not. If we share interests but are not attracted to each other we could be friends I suppose. I do need to get out and meet more people.

 

3. If we do fancy each other, then we could go on a date and see what happens. This may lead to a relationship, or maybe something more casual, which I am not opposed to either. The feelings and the timing needs to be mutual.

 

What I am not interested in is someone totally focused on locking me into a relationship based on a few dates where all I have seen is his best foot forward.

 

Indecisive, perhaps, or maybe just open minded and free of any agenda.

[TheWoman]

Just to add to the above, I think men should also remember that being safe is priority no 1 for many women.

 

I would not put open to casual sex or friends with benefits on my profile even if it were true, because I know it will result in me getting lots of creepy sexual messages from complete strangers.

 

That kind of thing has to evolve from a friendly start no matter what, for me anyway.

[TheWoman]

I'd say that's code for "no [sex] til I know who [] you are"

 

Perfectly succinct

Edited February 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[LookAtThisPOst]

On the other end of the spectrum, I've seen women, though this is rare, say specifically IN their profile, "Not here for friends, I have enough of those, here for a serious relationship."

 

I have to give her kudos for that in which she doesn't waffle around. There is something true to the matter that if you're on a dating site, why use it to seek friendships when you can make friends many other ways?

[SilverLining]

Honestly, for myself, I have a hard time being really attracted to or wanting to date someone when I first meet them. Level of attractiveness of the guy don't really matter - I tend to distrust guys that are too attractive anyway. I need to spend some time with the person and get to know them in a comfortable environment before I can really make that determination. That doesn't happen in one date or two. There have been many times that I've gone on dates and immediately thought...nah I don't think so, just no spark. However, thinking back it has ALWAYS been that way for me. Case in point - I met a guy and I was not attracted to him, didn't think we'd be a good match. We went out twice and I told him I wasn't feeling it but I'd like to be friends, and he agreed. Over the course of a few months I ended up falling hard for him. Another case - my last boyfriend, we met online and went out on 2 dates. I said I wasn't interested but would be friends, he said no. A year later he contacted me and asked me out again, I wasn't interested again but said we could be friends and he agreed this time. I asked HIM to date after a month of spending time together.

 

I don't know. Maybe for some women like me, it just takes time.

[Mrlonelyone]

Honestly, for myself, I have a hard time being really attracted to or wanting to date someone when I first meet them. Level of attractiveness of the guy don't really matter - I tend to distrust guys that are too attractive anyway. I need to spend some time with the person and get to know them in a comfortable environment before I can really make that determination. That doesn't happen in one date or two.

 

I totally understand when you are comming from and have no doubt what you say is true of you. That said, every man knows 2 women who say that and then jump on the next set of wash board abs and broad shoulders attached to a total dirtbag that they see. Then they spend time crying about how the dirtbag cheats on them or won't marry them. Then they breakup ... then jump on the next set of hard abs and strong shoulders attached to another dirtbag that they think they can change into a pot of roses...

 

Don't get me wrong I strongly believe that

 

• men and women can be friends
  
• friendship is the best way to get to know someone first
  
• then all the good solid relationships are built on this base.
  

 

That just does not help one when dating. Meeting as real friends and having a relationship grow from that base of actual experience can't be forced. Dating on the other hand is kind of artificial. It is IMO going around finding people you are sexually attracted to and seeing if you can also be genuine friends to eachother too.

[SilverLining]

If I go on a date with a man, he's going to want to kiss me. Then he's going to want to touch me. Then he's going to want to sleep with me. Most men try for these things almost immediately, the first time I'm even meeting them. I don't understand it. I don't know you. I don't want to kiss you. I don't want to touch you and I don't want you to touch me. I don't want to have sex. I in no way have any desire for you. However, if I got to know you that could change.

 

In the past, you could go on a few dates and guys didn't expect you to sleep with them right away. And yes, I do know there are many guys who don't expect that but a. a lot of guys don't expect it but try it anyway and I feel uncomfortable, and b. you'd be surprised who does expect it. It's not always handsome dbags.

 

If I was allowed to take my time with dating then ok, sure. But everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry.

[Shining One]

If I go on a date with a man, he's going to want to kiss me. Then he's going to want to touch me. Then he's going to want to sleep with me. Most men try for these things almost immediately, the first time I'm even meeting them. I don't understand it. I don't know you. I don't want to kiss you. I don't want to touch you and I don't want you to touch me. I don't want to have sex. I in no way have any desire for you. However, if I got to know you that could change.

 

In the past, you could go on a few dates and guys didn't expect you to sleep with them right away. And yes, I do know there are many guys who don't expect that but a. a lot of guys don't expect it but try it anyway and I feel uncomfortable, and b. you'd be surprised who does expect it. It's not always handsome dbags.

 

If I was allowed to take my time with dating then ok, sure. But everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry.

How about not going on dates? Just hang out as friends with no expectations of special treatment on either side. It's a bit unfair to pick and choose the aspects of dating that you want and deny your partner the aspects of dating they want.

[Chen12]

I disagree with your friend completely. Ironically I had to break of a friendship yesterday because the guy wanted more. When I told him that I didn't want anything more than a friendship he tried convincing me to try it out or think about it.

 

He saw that I wasn't going to budge on the the situation so he tried to settle with friendship with the thought in mind that maybe I would change my mind eventually. I quickly ended it because in my mind what kind of friendship is that. Being friends with a guy who is just waiting for the opportunity for more seems cruel.

 

I of course felt bad because he seemed so heartbroken but now he is free to pursue someone who wants what he wants.

[mightycpa]

I had a female friend tell me in an in-depth conversation about dating that she had been out with guys here and there from online dating and just in general where she wanted to just go out "as friends".

 

Some men tend to go along with these conditions for the purpose of just being in her company and being rather hopeful it could be more than that.

 

She has run into men that would refuse these conditions and she feels that they are really doing themselves a disservice by not agreeing to this because...

 

1. This could open up an opportunity to have him come into HER social network of other single female friends as dating prospects.

 

2. If he had stuck it out long enough "as friends" who knows, it probably could have turn into something more...but...he blew it."

 

The latter I have a hard time buying into this, considering if a woman isn't attracted, she just isn't attracted but to ascribe to the fact "Well, if he stuck around in my life long enough, it could have turned into something else."

 

It kind of irritated me that she said this...as a woman...and she actually believes it? How honest is she with herself?

 

Women, did you have any frame of mind that if a guy wrote you off after you offered only a platonic friendship that you said, "Well, he blew it, he could have had something good."?

 

There's another argument that women make (not being sexist, but a lot of women have said this)..that if a man isn't okay with a friendship, it means he just wants to get in her pants and nothing more.

 

I feel that is a serious cop-out, and is just a deluded comment to suggest such a thing. Usually it's a type of affirmation she gives herself to make herself feel better.

 

Her: "We can go out, but only as friends"

 

Him: "Sorry, I want more than just a friendship with you, I want to go out on a date with you."

 

Her: "Oh, you just want to get in my pants! Shame on you!"

 

Him: ??? That's like 1 + 1 = Orange.

 

Thoughts?

In the long run, yes, it is self-defeating because even if she won't f*ck you, her friend or her friends' friends just might

[Chen12]

Honestly, for myself, I have a hard time being really attracted to or wanting to date someone when I first meet them. Level of attractiveness of the guy don't really matter - I tend to distrust guys that are too attractive anyway. I need to spend some time with the person and get to know them in a comfortable environment before I can really make that determination. That doesn't happen in one date or two. There have been many times that I've gone on dates and immediately thought...nah I don't think so, just no spark. However, thinking back it has ALWAYS been that way for me. Case in point - I met a guy and I was not attracted to him, didn't think we'd be a good match. We went out twice and I told him I wasn't feeling it but I'd like to be friends, and he agreed. Over the course of a few months I ended up falling hard for him. Another case - my last boyfriend, we met online and went out on 2 dates. I said I wasn't interested but would be friends, he said no. A year later he contacted me and asked me out again, I wasn't interested again but said we could be friends and he agreed this time. I asked HIM to date after a month of spending time together.

 

I don't know. Maybe for some women like me, it just takes time.

 

 

OMG... someone finally put it into words. I thought I was the only one like this. I have friends that look at a guy and just know if they like them. I have to actually know the guy first before I am attracted to them. I also dont trust good looking guys.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I also dont trust good looking guys

 

I usually get dates with women like these, BUT...they are scarce.