westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby i'm not completely convinced that he would not value me as a friend as you say westernxr. dont guys have female friends that they do care about, i am not saying that they NEVER think about sexually, but that they actually care about. lots of guys i know do. or are you just saying married guys dont? Guys in general do not have female friends unless they're after something else. Girls tend to ignore this, or they rationalize it by saying it's just a friendship. In a way, those girls are right. It is a "friendship." Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 By the way, you said you'd NEVER sleep with him again. How can it be an emotional affair when he's already got you pinned? There's no turning the page back in this book. Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by jj003 I hate to tell you this, generally speaking, in any situation, the fault is not all one sided. If a person really feels loved and understood, they may not lie, cheat, or anything...before we blame someone for not being honest with us, ask ourselves, are we being so understanding that they feel they could be honest with us? Often, i feel the first person to blame is myself. So are you saying that when there is a problem in the marriage - and yes both parties are normally to blame - it is BOTH there faults if one cheats? I don't think so. If I am having a problem in my marriage - and trust me I've had my share - I wouldn't feel I had any right to go out and sneak around, lie to my husband and children, feed more lies to my lover (and he better look like Richard Gere!), and then feel justified because my husband wasn't giving me the things I needed to feel fulfilled in my marriage. I'd either work it out with him or get a divorce. I find it amazing how so many people feel it's justifiable to lie and cheat and make a mockery out of one's significant other because they are not happy or complete. Would they want the same thing done to them? Would they be so understanding? I think not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 westernxr, in that case it may be no different from any other guy/girl friendship. By the way, you said you'd NEVER sleep with him again. How can it be an emotional affair when he's already got you pinned? There's no turning the page back in this book. i just dont understand what you mean by this. i wont EVER sleep with him again, i never said it was an emotional affair. So are you saying that when there is a problem in the marriage - and yes both parties are normally to blame - it is BOTH there faults if one cheats? I don't think so. If I am having a problem in my marriage - and trust me I've had my share - I wouldn't feel I had any right to go out and sneak around, lie to my husband and children, feed more lies to my lover (and he better look like Richard Gere!), and then feel justified because my husband wasn't giving me the things I needed to feel fulfilled in my marriage. I'd either work it out with him or get a divorce. I find it amazing how so many people feel it's justifiable to lie and cheat and make a mockery out of one's significant other because they are not happy or complete. Would they want the same thing done to them? Would they be so understanding? I think not. philly i quite agree with you and it is part of my issue whether a friendship is a good idea or not. i can understand somebody having an affair and getting caught up in the whole thing at a weak point and then regretting it all. i cant understand though when given the chance to make good with both women wanting to resume the affair again. my mm has a chance to make his marriage good again and get things back to friendliness with me. he most certainly doesnt love me so why not just be happy with this? Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby westernxr, in that case it may be no different from any other guy/girl friendship. Girls have a hard time understanding this... guys who befriend them aren't just trying to be friends. "Harry Met Sally" illustrates this very clearly. Some guys just have a hard time putting on the moves, or they're waiting until the girl and her boyfriend break up. Guys who deny this are either pussies or slick mofos. Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby i just dont understand what you mean by this. i wont EVER sleep with him again, i never said it was an emotional affair. You said it right here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=503910#post503910 Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by phillygirl63 So are you saying that when there is a problem in the marriage - and yes both parties are normally to blame - it is BOTH there faults if one cheats? I don't think so. If I am having a problem in my marriage - and trust me I've had my share - I wouldn't feel I had any right to go out and sneak around, lie to my husband and children, feed more lies to my lover (and he better look like Richard Gere!), and then feel justified because my husband wasn't giving me the things I needed to feel fulfilled in my marriage. I'd either work it out with him or get a divorce. I find it amazing how so many people feel it's justifiable to lie and cheat and make a mockery out of one's significant other because they are not happy or complete. Would they want the same thing done to them? Would they be so understanding? I think not. Not all guys that have affairs are as awful as the one you mentioned, sometimes people do have feelings and emotions they cannot control, and sometimes, they are confuse.. I had a H that liked my best friend before, I did not get mad at him, in fact, I told him to go for it if that would make him happy...there was no need for him to lie to me, If I were my H's best friend I would listen to him and tell him to do what is best for him, even if it means leaving me!! And if we married someone who would not even treat us like a friend, then we have to ask ourselves, why are we so stupid? we are again to blame...I think. I still believe that in any relationship, not in marriage only, before blaming another person, we should look at what we have contributed to the problem, it is always easier to blame another and not see what we did wrong ourselves. Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Guys in general do not have female friends unless they're after something else. Girls tend to ignore this, or they rationalize it by saying it's just a friendship. In a way, those girls are right. It is a "friendship." I totally disagree with you on this, maybe because of my occupation or my hobby, I have many male friends who are nothing more than good friends! I am sure they are not after something like you said, it is because we all do the same thing and like the same thing, we spend a lot of time doing what we like together and talking about what we like together, people do share common interest and goal, regardless of their sex! Our goal and interest are very important to us...and it has nothing to do with sex! You maybe talking about people you know, but please do not generalize it !! Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by jj003 I totally disagree with you on this, maybe because of my occupation or my hobby, I have many male friends who are nothing more than good friends! I am sure they are not after something like you said, it is because we all do the same thing and like the same thing, we spend a lot of time doing what we like together and talking about what we like together, people do share common interest and goal, regardless of their sex! Our goal and interest are very important to us...and it has nothing to do with sex! You maybe talking about people you know, but please do not generalize it !! It's generally true... you just don't know how guys think. Notice I said "guys in general." That means there are exceptions. Not many, though. Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby jj i am NOT letting him, when i said that i was talking about the past. jj of course nobody can tell me that but however sometimes somebody can see something with a perspective that you dont have being actually in the middle of things. isnt that why we are all in these forums?? I know you are NOT letting him, all I am saying is in the end, only you know what is best for you regardless of what i or anyone may say. Of course it is good to have other inputs, see another point of view, but you must be the judge as to what is best for you at the end, or at least be the judge to see if he is using you. Have faith in yourself Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 westernxr, whilst i'm quite sure i underestimate the sexual drive of men, if a man enjoys friendships with males who share common interests, humour etc i dont think its that far fetched to believe they could also enjoy friendships (nothing more) with females. Not all guys that have affairs are as aweful as the one you mentioned, sometimes people do have feelings and emotions they cannot control, and sometimes, they are confuse.. I had a H that liked my best friend before, I did not get mad at him, in fact, I told him to go for it if that would make him happy...there was no need for him to lie to me, If I were my H's best friend I would listen to him and tell him to do what is best for him, even if it means leaving me!! And if we married someone who would not even treat us like a friend, then we have to ask ourselves, why are we so stupid? we are again to blame...I think. jj whilst your stance is somewhat admirable, why have such compassion for the mistakes of everyone but oneself? Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby westernxr, whilst i'm quite sure i underestimate the sexual drive of men, if a man enjoys friendships with males who share common interests, humour etc i dont think its that far fetched to believe they could also enjoy friendships (nothing more) with females. That's where you delude yourself... it's so obvious. I think I know your MM better than you do, and I don't even know his name. Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 i am sure the thought probably crosses their minds constantly but it doesnt mean it isnt mainly friendship. oh well you are a man, i'll take your word for it!! wierdo!! Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby i am sure the thought probably crosses their minds constantly but it doesnt mean it isnt mainly friendship. With a motive attached to it. Women like to complicate things when they aren't complicated at all. From where I'm standing, it's so black and white it isn't even funny. oh well you are a man, i'll take your word for it!! wierdo!! At least you didn't call me a friend. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 also i do not expect him to be honest with me but i was questioning one thing he said. This jumped out at me. Don't you WANT that honesty? I mean, that is what one looks for? I guess in this particular situation the honest to a degree really wasn't there to start. I hope you find some single guy so you can get the happiness, love, respect, honesty and trust that you deserve. Not some married man who isn't worth all the energy and pain. Make any sense? Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I agree with whichway, and newby - you sound like a nice girl! Get yourself someone that is deserving of you and cut off all ties with the MM. He'll never be satisfied with just a "friendship" from you. Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by newbby jj whilst your stance is somewhat admirable, why have such compassion for the mistakes of everyone but oneself? I do forgive myself also...i can only do what I thought was best at a given time, I may be mistaken, I know I am not perfect. so i want to see what i have done wrong and hopefully I would NOT repeat the same mistake. If I were only to blame another without looking at myself and my faults in it all, how can i ever improve? how can I be sure I won't repeat the same mistake again? Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer That's where you delude yourself... it's so obvious. I think I know your MM better than you do, and I don't even know his name. so you do agree, there are exceptional, you are talking about her mm, not all guys ! Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I never said all guys, just the sons of bitches. Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 At least you didn't call me a friend. Westernxr, I could never call you a friend after everything you've said! Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 I do forgive myself also...i can only do what I thought was best at a given time, I may be mistaken, I know I am not perfect. so i want to see what i have done wrong and hopefully I would NOT repeat the same mistake. If I were only to blame another without looking at myself and my faults in it all, how can i ever improve? how can I be sure I won't repeat the same mistake again? yes, i agree. This jumped out at me. Don't you WANT that honesty? I mean, that is what one looks for? I guess in this particular situation the honest to a degree really wasn't there to start. I hope you find some single guy so you can get the happiness, love, respect, honesty and trust that you deserve. Not some married man who isn't worth all the energy and pain. Make any sense? yes, although i have many different friendships, i think out of all my friends there is only one that i would trust with everything, even then i dont think anyone ever spills out every feeling they have. in my friendship with mm, i enjoy his company, he makes me laugh, plus he is nearly always available to chat on im when i am. i have odd working hours so most of the people i know are not available when i have time to socialise (virtually). i am generally quite lonely anyway, he does provide me with something. i wouldnt trust him with everything but some aspects of his character i appreciate. isnt this true of all friendships and relationships? they all provide you with different things? I agree with whichway, and newby - you sound like a nice girl! Get yourself someone that is deserving of you and cut off all ties with the MM. He'll never be satisfied with just a "friendship" from you. if he is not satisfied with just a friendship with me then he will soon get bored of talking to me, if he is suggestive i refuse to play etc. i am definetly not interested in anything more with him. i might still have my ego issues from time to time, but they are easy enough to deal with. thinking about it realistically, if he left his wife now, like he SAYS he is, i wouldnt be interested. i think he is a very needy person in many ways, he must be to need two women for one thing, also he expects to be able to go out frequently with the boys, he cannot stand being cooped up. well most people cant but some people, dont have a choice. he needs his ego feeding constantly and needs his interests kept with games and uncertainty and quite frankly i wouldnt have the time or the energy to give somebody so much attention. also i wouldnt trust him now, no wonder these relationships dont often work out in the real world. Link to post Share on other sites
joodee Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Just posted to you on my thread, I wanted to post here too. I'm falling asleep on the computer (yawn!), I think it best to do NC, like I'm doing now. Don't try to be friends. Let's both see how long we can do NC. I like you had all the same reasons to stay friends, and he ultimately wormed his way back in via friendship. I'll check it tomorrow....I will need the support too... Hang in there!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Joodee, I am still unsure about my next move from here, I can still offer you support though!! I also admire your strength, I just dont know if I have that kind of strength at the moment, when everything else in my life is alot better, then maybe I will let go completely. I am not sure at the moment whether the benefits of n.c would outweigh the benefits of a friendship. My astrological chart is full of libra, so if you believe in astrology, this should explain things!. Link to post Share on other sites
joodee Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I understand what you're saying. Right now I don't feel too strong, I just texted something trivial to him, so now I have to say to myself "just for this hour I will not have any contact". An hour at a time. I have to do NC, my mm is poison, gotta do it.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author newbby Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 joodee honey, dont kick yourself for that. you are right, a day at a time. if you fail one day, start again the next. i have also made a big mistake today. it is only when depression kicks in. its why it is safer to not have them as friends at all. Link to post Share on other sites
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