Stay in marriage for children? Need perspectives

[Calmandfocused]

Newbie here who would appreciate some outside perspectives.

 

My main question is: should I give my marriage another chance for the sake of my children or file for divorce from a marriage that is dead?

 

A bit of background:

I met my husband off POF in 2008. We had a whirlwind, passionate relationship from the start. He proposed 4 months after we met, we were married a year later and now have 2 children (age 5 and 3). Looking back I married a stranger so I'm aware that I only have myself to blame for the predicament I'm currently in. We've now been married nearly 6 years.

 

I could be here all day listing everything that I've had to put up with over the course of my marriage to date. However the issue that underpins everything to date is extreme selfish behaviour that has known no bounds. I've experienced financial exploitation, emotional abandonment during and after pregnancy, irrational temper tantrums whenever I've dared ask for his help in any way, and generally a disregard for my needs in any shape or form. For example, I got seriously ill after having my first child where I required an emergency operation to save my life. All I got was him ranting on about how my illness affected him and how unfortunate he was to marry a woman who was so sick after he married her (I'm fine now).

 

My "I'm done" moment came after another espisode where he went off his head because I asked him to look after the children when he's off work and I'm at work. At that moment I told myself that I just couldn't listen to him anymore going on about how much he doesn't want his own children. It breaks my heart every time.

 

Saying that the children adore him. He doesn't do anything untowArd to them, he just isn't interested in them if that makes sense.

 

Sexually we are suffering. Every time we do the deed I have to fight away flashbacks and images of him behaving like a lunatic. I hate him touching me.

 

So, what do you think? Is there any chance for us? I've told him I want to separate. Hes not taking it well and of course is behaving perfectly at the moment. What would you do in my position? Any feedback appreciated

[PegNosePete]

Let me phrase it this way...

 

If it were one of your children in this situation, what would you recommend?

 

That they stay in an unhappy marriage, making themself miserable, for the sake of their children (your grandchildren), or that they leave and find happiness in their own lives, whilst providing 2 stable and happy (separate) homes for their kids?

 

I think there is only 1 choice.

[whichwayisup]

Is he willing to change? Go to marriage counseling with you so you two can reconnect and fix things? If no, then talk to a lawyer and start legal separation/divorce proceedings. There's no point in fighting for a marriage if he isn't willing to change and it seems he isn't who you thought he was either.. Do you love him? Sounds like his behavior and how he's treated you has killed the love.

 

He will always be a father to your kids, maybe it's best to live apart and he can have visitation (I doubt he'll want shared custody).

[Calmandfocused]

Thank you for your replies. I'm afraid the answer is no, I don't love him and haven't for some time. The man I thought I married sadly doesn't exist.

 

He won't consider counselling but to be honest I don't want to as I no longer care about making this work. However I do care about what's best for the children. It's so hard.

[hl1962]

The opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is selfishness. You have the answer. Your choice. Children needs good role models.

[TaraMaiden2]

The opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is selfishness. You have the answer. Your choice. Children needs good role models.

 

The opposite of Love is neither Hate, nor Selfishness.

Hate is such a close emotion to Love that actually, the neurons triggering either emotion lie so close to one another in the brain, it's sometimes hard to know which ones are firing...

Selfishness is a form of manipulation. A person cares enough about the other person's emotional experience to attempt to affect them adversely and put them at a disadvantage.

Selfishness is controlling and abusive.

 

The Opposite of Love is Indifference. He is not indifferent. He is cruel.

 

Stop having sex with him.

File for divorce.

Get the ball rolling and do whatever you can to distance yourself from someone who is obviously hell-bent on destroying every ounce of self-worth you ever had, and crushing it under his heel.

[Calmandfocused]

Interesting point made by pp. I always thought that indifference was the opposite of love which is exactly how I now feel.

 

I've always (well since we got married anyway) known that he couldn't give a rats behind how I feel. I suspected aswel that he never truly loved me for me. He loved the fact that I ticked all his criteria in terms of what he was looking for, and what I represent. However I could have been anyone.

 

I don't think anyone else is involved but strange as it might sound id be delighted if he met someone else. I often fantasise that he meets another woman and tells me he's leaving me. Id be over the moon. That's not normal Is it?

 

My 3 year old has noticed that we don't sleep in the same room. I'm not comfortable with him thinking this is the norm.

 

We live in a lovely area close to good school and I'm sad that my children are going to lose this. Saying that there will always be other houses and schools. I just want my children and I to have a happy life.

[Calmandfocused]

Tara your post is very insightful. I've accused him of being abusive but he denies this as: a) he hasnt hit me and b) he doesn't drink Hugh amounts of alcohol. I don't accept his rational.

 

Luckily, my self esteem is in tact. I've told him that I'll always be a better person than he is. He can say whatever he likes to me, I don't believe any of it, I don't think I'm amazing but I know I'm a decent person whose a good mother and would be a good wife if I had married someone decent.

[Calmandfocused]

By the way how does someone go about finding a good lawyer/ solicitor? There are so many online my mind boggles. How do you chose one?

[Trishern]

I've told him I want to separate. Hes not taking it well and of course is behaving perfectly at the moment. What would you do in my position? Any feedback appreciated

 

 

If he can sustain his perfect behaviour, then give it a go. tell him, that the way he's behaving now, is what you want in a husband. if he slips towards his old ways, tell him very clearly that you are done.

 

 

he knows how to behave properly, so lets see how long it lasts.

 

 

if he reverts to his old ways, don't dilly dally. Instigate a separation, so he knows you mean business.

 

 

Marriage guidance would also be an idea.

 

 

Mrs T

[Brady375]

The "I'm done" moment is tough. I posted under "mentally checked out". It's tough. It's like after you hit that point Nothing else matters. Nothing else can move forward in a positive direction until you can get Around that feeling. I do not have kids but I don't want to be Divorced so I have been separated for almost 3 months now seeing if anything changes within me as I go to counseling on my own. When my moment came I wasn't anticipating it happening. We had a few rough weeks prior to it happening but I always soildered on through those times.

When the "I'm done" moment hit it was a moment of sad sad clarity and certainty. I drove around my town for the next week about 6 hrs a day driving and parking and breaking down. At the time I didn't know why I was so upset as I have a hard time understanding myself but now I guess I was accepting the relationships for what it was and mourning it's loss. I still haven't made offical movement. But what I will say is Do Not Rush into anything.

Neither of you want to go to counseling.....that's ok. That doesn't mean the next step in divorce. Give things time. If you seperate that's ok. You don't have to go ahead and get divorced. Give it time. Despite the fact that you may Feel that you don't have any direction you do. And the things you are doing and steps you are taking are progress. Little by little you will figure this all out one way or another. Sometimes when you aren't sure of what to do, doing nothing is the best thing. Eventually things will naturally play out. A situation like this doesn't resolve itself over night either way it goes. Best of luck to you and your family.

[k2girl]

Newbie here who would appreciate some outside perspectives.

 

My main question is: should I give my marriage another chance for the sake of my children or file for divorce from a marriage that is dead?

 

A bit of background:

I met my husband off POF in 2008. We had a whirlwind, passionate relationship from the start. He proposed 4 months after we met, we were married a year later and now have 2 children (age 5 and 3). Looking back I married a stranger so I'm aware that I only have myself to blame for the predicament I'm currently in. We've now been married nearly 6 years.

 

I could be here all day listing everything that I've had to put up with over the course of my marriage to date. However the issue that underpins everything to date is extreme selfish behaviour that has known no bounds. I've experienced financial exploitation, emotional abandonment during and after pregnancy, irrational temper tantrums whenever I've dared ask for his help in any way, and generally a disregard for my needs in any shape or form. For example, I got seriously ill after having my first child where I required an emergency operation to save my life. All I got was him ranting on about how my illness affected him and how unfortunate he was to marry a woman who was so sick after he married her (I'm fine now).

 

My "I'm done" moment came after another espisode where he went off his head because I asked him to look after the children when he's off work and I'm at work. At that moment I told myself that I just couldn't listen to him anymore going on about how much he doesn't want his own children. It breaks my heart every time.

 

Saying that the children adore him. He doesn't do anything untowArd to them, he just isn't interested in them if that makes sense.

 

Sexually we are suffering. Every time we do the deed I have to fight away flashbacks and images of him behaving like a lunatic. I hate him touching me.

 

So, what do you think? Is there any chance for us? I've told him I want to separate. Hes not taking it well and of course is behaving perfectly at the moment. What would you do in my position? Any feedback appreciated

 

Hmm irrational temper tantrums and getting mad at me when I'm sick, It's been awhile since I remembered back to my marriage and some of the craziness like that. I can't answer the question about whether there is a chance for you, but I will say from my point of view, staying married for the sake of the children is not the right move.

 

My husband and I seperated almost 7 years ago when my kids were 2 and 6. Infidelity was the last straw and that was a deal breaker for me. We finalized our divorce a few years ago.

 

Looking back now, it was the best move for us, our marriage was miserable near the end. Now we are both happier, both in relationships, and our kids are flourishing. The kids are good with joint custody and they have an excellent relationship with their Dad. He is a fantastic part time Dad, just couldn't handle the day to day responsibilities of marriage and kids.

 

The important part is to just keep the kids out of all the messy stuff of the separation if you choose to go there.

 

K

[burnt]

Should you stay for the children?

That depends on what you want your children to have.

 

Option #1:

The children grow up in a home both parents live together, but are unhappy and dysfunctional, where the mother is slowly withering away on the inside, unhappy, feeling defeated and weak.

Is that the kind of mother you want your kids have to grow up with?

 

Option #2:

The children grow up with separated family, learn that sometimes people need to go their separate ways, but each parent can still love the kids and have a connection in their own ways. They can learn that as adults we have to make divisions sometimes that are not easy.

[Calmandfocused]

Brady, I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. It's so difficult and I understand your emotions completely. The difference is I've been through this whilst still in the relationship. Does that mean its more over for me? I've no idea.

 

Yes, he knows what to and how to behave in an acceptable way but he chooses not to. I've been down the path with him a million times before. He'll make a change briefly then in less than a week go back to how he was before. Infact I think it's become more worse over the years. If he thinks for a minute he's got me back his behaviour escalates and the cycle continues.

[loveboid]

No, don't stay. He needs an attitude change and that takes choosing to change and hard work.

 

Be careful leaving. Don't visit him alone after you file. I would go no contact and talk through a mediator.

[mikeylo]

No, you dont stay for kids but you leave for kids. They need to see you happy.

[Calmandfocused]

He's told me he will move out until the divorce is settled, just because I do the majority of the childcare including the school runs. Apart from removing a few pics off the wall, he hasn't made any attempt to move out yet. How long should I give it before I ask again? Whilst I appreciate it won't happen instantly, I don't want to encourage him to bide his time. I've checked the Uk law and because we both own the house I can't make him leave.

[TaraMaiden2]

Finding a good solicitor is actually easier than you think: You MUST know friends (fellow parents) who have divorced. The best way is to ask someone for a recommendation. Ask questions like, how thorough were they? Did they think of things your friend hadn't? Were they quick? Did they act in your friend's' best interest, or in the interest of the fee? Were they on the ball? Did they respond promptly to questions and calls? (Amazing as it might seem, there ARE scrupulous solicitors out there!)

 

Remember one thing: A divorce lawyer acting for you as a petitioner, will also have clients who are defendants.

A solicitor will stick to the strict letter of the law and try to work things to your advantage. They won't take your side because they want the best for you. They'll take your side because that's what you've engaged them to do.

So you need to seek a lawyer who can act in accordance with the law, who acts in your best interests, but who at least has a modicum of humanity.

 

And it honestly doesn't matter what their gender is.

 

One thing to ask is how you get your H to vacate the property, on the understanding that he does not (and you do not view it as) relinquishing the right to 50% of the property's marketable value.

 

I've been divorced, UK-wise.

Judges/Solicitors do not under any circumstances consider what is fair.

They consider what is Law.

[Calmandfocused]

That's very good advice Tara thank you. I live in an area where I don't know that many people. However, my friends in nearby cities have been through similar so yes I'll ask for recommendations.

 

I'm not looking forward to the journey ahead but I can't see this ongoing for the foreseeable future. Looks like my next job is to consult a solicitor and take it from there. Thank you so much to everyone whose replied so far. I'll keep you updated.

[Miss Peach]

I went through a similar concern about divorcing with children. The thing is the kid(s) are seeing you two act like this and think this is 'normal'. Is this really the model you want to show your children about romantic relationships?

 

I've talked to several adult friends - people from divorced homes and one with parents who fought. The divorced ones it became normal to them. The ones from the homes that fought they wished their parents would divorce.

 

Coming from a situation that doesn't sound too far from yours, the only reason I would consider staying had been if my XH sincerely wanted to make changes to make OUR relationship better. But in my case my XH only played lip service to that. He really just wanted me to hurry up and forget it/forgive him so he could go back to what he really wanted to do.

[oldshirt]

If he can sustain his perfect behaviour, then give it a go. tell him, that the way he's behaving now, is what you want in a husband. if he slips towards his old ways, tell him very clearly that you are done.

 

 

he knows how to behave properly, so lets see how long it lasts.

 

 

if he reverts to his old ways, don't dilly dally. Instigate a separation, so he knows you mean business.

 

 

Marriage guidance would also be an idea.

 

 

Mrs T

 

 

I disagree. His character and true colors haven't changed. He is play acting. He is a manipulator and his "perfect" behavior is a performance.

 

Real people and real behavior are never perfect.

 

His current performance doesn't count because it is fake. His true character will break through in the blink of an eye any moment.

[butterfly1958]

Sounds like your heart is hurting and you are very weary. Conflict is very draining on a person emotionally and psychologically. I have experienced many problems within my marriage but really feel like we succeed coming out much stronger. I realized I could only change me. So I worked on my attitude and started to laugh more and have fun. Leaving the negative mindset and feeling bad for me was left behind. In all relationships communication is the key…….with kids….family….spouses. What has your real communication with your spouse entailed? I am talking about communication with a goal and focus on the two of you and your kids in a quiet setting with a goal of moving forward and resolving issues. The following webste Fight for Your Marriage When Your Spouse Is Emotionally Distant | Focus on the Family. lt has some basic information on communication. Most couples achieve success if both parties are willing to really work on their marriage with a counselor. Marriage is a challenge and communication is the key……I will be thinking of you as you obtain perspective….

[Mr. Lucky]

He won't consider counselling but to be honest I don't want to as I no longer care about making this work. However I do care about what's best for the children. It's so hard.

 

Separation doesn't necessarily mean divorce but would certainly be a wake up call for him. One reason to consider counseling is that the communication skills emphasized serve you well if you do divorce.

 

Someone as selfish as him isn't any better a co-parent than they were a husband. Be prepared...

 

Mr. Lucky

[PegNosePete]

I've checked the Uk law and because we both own the house I can't make him leave.

Yes, that's true. In fact even if you owned the house solely you could not make him leave. It will advantage you if he leaves voluntarily, so if you think that might happen, it's worth it. But it seems like he's not planning to leave voluntarily.

 

What Tara said about finding a solicitor. If you have friends or family then recommendations are great, but make sure they are a specialized family solicitor... it's no use to have a brother who is a company law solicitor, that would be like having a heart doctor perform brain surgery. I just used google to find all the local ones, and went to see several for a free initial consultation. This has several advantages. Firstly it costs you nothing, and your knowledge expands greatly with every one. You get to have several opinions and can choose a solicitor you like, and who sounds like they can get you the best deal. Don't necessarily go for the "bulldog" type, but go for the one who seems to be on your side, optimistic but realistic and pragmatic. Ask about their fees, and an estimate of how much your case would cost.

 

The other advantage to seeing several solicitors may seem a bit selfish Once you've seen a solicitor, even for a free half hour consultation, they can't advise your husband, due to conflict of interest laws. So if you see all the good quality local solicitors, he may be forced to use a worse one.

Edited February 16, 2016 by PegNosePete

[Calmandfocused]

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate and value all your input. I have some annual leave coming up where the children will be at school. I'll use this time to consult 4 or 5 solicitors and see who I want to represent me.

 

It's interesting that others have picked up on this but one reason why I haven't separated from him before now is because I'm fearful for the welfare of my children. Of course, I want them to have a healthy relationship with their father but to date I have pretty much raised them by myself. For example he won't ever get up with them and hasn't since my 3 year old has been born (apart from once and only once). Any sleep disturbances have usually resulted in some kind of unpleasantness towards me in front of the children. That alone is concerning for me. What will it be like if I'm not there and the children wake him at 6am on a Sunday morning? I dread to think.

 

Saying that, I can't worry about this as the point is he will have to do it and wont have any other choice. I think that's partly the reason why he doesn't want to divorce me. He loves that I do everything. He doesn't want that to change.