Stay in marriage for children? Need perspectives

[Calmandfocused]

Redhead, thank you very much for your very insightful post. Your observations rang very true. It's not been often that the children get my husbands undivided attention but when they do they love it. They ask for their father when he's not around so I assumed the bond was there. However, thinking about it, your probably right. They ask for him because they want their daddy's affection, love and attention. Its only natural.

 

I really hope they haven't overheard any of my husbands rantings about not wanting to look after them. I don't want them to develop any psychological issues as a result. I've tried to protect them from this but your right, they WILL pick up on it if they haven't already. It's for this reason mainly that I'm adamant in my decision that I will divorce him. There is no more chances as far as I'm concerned. I've been doing what you've suggested for over 7 years without change. It doesn't get better, it just gets worse.

 

Brady, apologies for my terminology. I use chap as a term to describe an adult male, a less formal term than gentleman but a more formal term than "fella". Sorry about that.

 

I'm delighted to hear that you got the higher percentage of custody. Sounds like it has served your daughter well. The general message that I'm getting from everyone is that the children will be ok with him and I should stop worrying about this. I endeavour to do just that. Thank you

[Calmandfocused]

Sorry I don't know how to edit. I meant to address the latter part to Testmeasure

[Calmandfocused]

Forgot to also say that I will keep a journal of routine. That's a very good idea

[Brady375]

Obiviously I can't say if is More over for you. The "im done" feeling is tough to get around and i don't think it matters how or when it comes about. It's a unique feeling that I have discused w a couple other friends and until you go through it no one understands what it is.

 

It's like though I don't want to get D#^*ced I can't even type it. I can't wrap my head around things and get past these feelings.

 

What I have done is some deep Thinking. I have figured out I have Two roads to take right now. They are, Divorce (since we are already separated and i already crossed that road) or begin working on things by going to marriage counseling. I have came up w these two roads for myself as getting back together couldn't be listed as one as it just Couldn't happen. It would be a long road leading to that but that starts w going to counseling together and reopening communication.

 

So what would I Need to start down the road of marriage counseling... I have come up w some Things that I think would make me interested in pursuing the route of marriage counseling but they would have to be Met first prior to starting. I came up w these things cus if met I think it would help me feel better and I'd be more open to taking this road. I identified what I need to take this Step. I started thinking in terms of the Next Step instead of in absolutes of Getting back together. Cus that won't just happen w a snap of the fingers.

 

I have also come up w a few things that would have to happen or Not happen In order for me to pursue making this separation permenant. And with these things I have set a timeline for myself as I feel w Any Major Decision making up 99% of your mind can be accomplished but getting over that last 1% and doing it s extremely difficult.

 

My situation is different then yours so I didn't list what my terms were for either route. But if i were you I would list out your expectations. Figure out what is it that you are Torn about choosing between. Then list what is it you need to see done prior to executing either plan.

 

If one plan is to start counseling together and the other is to separate from one another (not divorce) then these are two different steps. What do You need to see In order to move towards Taking the Step that is slanted towards Saving the Marriage - And what would you see and take into account that would lead you towards separating.

 

I just substituted two different "roads" to take then my own to show it can work in any situation. There is a Next step that you could take towards saving ur marriage, what is that step and what do u need to have before committing to it. There is also a next step that you would take towards ending the marriage. What is that next step and what would have to happen or what would u see that would have you go in that direction.

 

You have to identity these Next steps as I do not know exactly Where you are in the relationship right now. Indentify these steps and what is required to fulfill them and see what can be done.

 

Just me 2cents. Good luck.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Brady375

[Calmandfocused]

Jacks back. I've only just noticed your post. Please dont take this personally but I really don't want the same thing to happen to me. I don't want to waste anymore of my life and I really want my children to grow into functioning adults. It appears that most people are saying that staying for the children is the wrong way to go.

 

I know a lot of people are suggesting counselling but I really don't know what i'd be going for. My love for him burnt out a long time ago, is now just ashes and has been trampled on repeatedly. I don't know how any counsellor in the world would get that fire re burning. To me that's impossible. Remember also that he a) cannot see anything that he's done wrong and b) that he doesn't give a toss about how I think and feel. He'll just switch off and won't listen. I know what he's like.

 

I'm waiting for a solicitor to get back to me to see if they can fit me in as early as Wednesday. Fingers crossed

[TaraMaiden2]

I know a lot of people are suggesting counselling but I really don't know what i'd be going for. My love for him burnt out a long time ago, is now just ashes and has been trampled on repeatedly. I don't know how any counsellor in the world would get that fire re burning.

Classic mistake.

You're falling into the trap of believing that Marital Counselling is a tool to keep people together.

 

It. Isn't.

 

Counselling is a mechanism whereby you gain a safe place to express yourself; a level playing field that permits dialogue and an engagement by both parties to say whatever it is you wish to say, with no fear of the situation becoming hostile, aggressive, argumentative, intimidating or inhibitive.

 

A good Counsellor will ensure that the discussion remains productive and constructive; but that doesn't mean you'd be obliged to stay together.

If anything, you would feel safer and freer to say "this is over; I have no intention of rebuilding anything. I just want to be able to talk to you and express what is on my mind and in my heart, without fear of you steamrollering me into silence."

 

To me that's impossible. Remember also that he a) cannot see anything that he's done wrong and b) that he doesn't give a toss about how I think and feel. He'll just switch off and won't listen. I know what he's like.

Even if he attends half of one session, he will hear you.

And he will be encouraged to speak. How he behaves in counselling, will determine the success of his communicative skills. If they're zero - either because he's incapable OR stubborn - that in and of itself, will be a result you can move forward on.

 

I'm waiting for a solicitor to get back to me to see if they can fit me in as early as Wednesday. Fingers crossed

By all means take all of the above clarification with a hefty pinch of salt. If your heart's really not into exploring a counselling session, then that's fine; but hold fast to this legal side of things...

 

Wishing you all the best.

[JacksBack]

Jacks back. I've only just noticed your post. Please dont take this personally but I really don't want the same thing to happen to me. I don't want to waste anymore of my life and I really want my children to grow into functioning adults.

No offense taken, that's why I posted the comment. If your home environment is toxic and unlikely to change then maybe it is better the kids be from a broken home than in a broken home. But if you think there is a remote possibility it could change then counselling is worth trying and like TaraMaiden said, if not, counselling is at least a good neutral place to tell him its over.

[oldlion]

Something I read long ago about staying in the marriage for the children......"It is better for a child to come from a broken home that to be raised in a home that is broken."

[Calmandfocused]

Well the good news is that the exemplary behaviour from my husband has continued.

 

Unfortunately, I was admitted into hospital on Saturday night where I stayed for the next 24 hours. My husband had no choice but to care for the children as obviously I wasn't able to. When I got home, I went to bed. He came into my room and kissed me on the head. This was the first physical contact we've had in weeks and I had to stop myself from bursting into tears due to the sadness of what could have been.

 

Its so frustrating that he's been so great with me and the children recently so he knows what makes me happy and what he needs to do to be a good husband and father. Why then does he chose to behave like suck a d**k? Why would someone not chose to behave themselves for the sake of their family? This really baffles me.

 

I've decided to give myself a bit more time before seeing a solicitor. Not because I've changed my mind. I just need to focus on getting myself well again and I do think husband and I need to talk some more once I'm fitter ( now isnt the right time as I've got medical appointments as has my son) I'm going to leave it a couple of weeks. Maybe, I'll suggest counselling. What do you think? Either way I will let him know how I've valued his efforts over the past few weeks. You never know, there might be something we can work on. I'm doubtful and don't think I want to but we'll see what happens

[PegNosePete]

These things shouldn't be rushed. Take all the time you need.

 

Get well soon!

[dreamingoftigers]

Well the good news is that the exemplary behaviour from my husband has continued.

 

Unfortunately, I was admitted into hospital on Saturday night where I stayed for the next 24 hours. My husband had no choice but to care for the children as obviously I wasn't able to. When I got home, I went to bed. He came into my room and kissed me on the head. This was the first physical contact we've had in weeks and I had to stop myself from bursting into tears due to the sadness of what could have been.

 

Its so frustrating that he's been so great with me and the children recently so he knows what makes me happy and what he needs to do to be a good husband and father. Why then does he chose to behave like suck a d**k? Why would someone not chose to behave themselves for the sake of their family? This really baffles me.

 

I've decided to give myself a bit more time before seeing a solicitor. Not because I've changed my mind. I just need to focus on getting myself well again and I do think husband and I need to talk some more once I'm fitter ( now isnt the right time as I've got medical appointments as has my son) I'm going to leave it a couple of weeks. Maybe, I'll suggest counselling. What do you think? Either way I will let him know how I've valued his efforts over the past few weeks. You never know, there might be something we can work on. I'm doubtful and don't think I want to but we'll see what happens

 

I'll be honest, I've had to learn the hard way to get the info on custody etc. When times look a little "better" with my H, instead of being in the gutter.

 

Because when gutter time hits, I've had to put out 1000 fires, deal with the fallout for my child and really get the ball rolling.

 

It's better to know and be prepared for the inevitable IF.

 

Because IF can become WHEN at any time.

 

As well, I find that completely knowing my options has helped me straighten my resolve. It has become more of a choice then "stepping into the unknown." I choosing to exchange Life A with husband for Life B without husband because he trainwrecked. Not freezing in fear thinking "oh gosh, here we go again, what will become of us? (daughter and I).

 

Seeing a solicitor does not mean you have split up. It means you know what you have to get done, and its waiting for you if you have to.

 

I also have found that since I have less fear, my marriage is actually a better place. Because I stand a little more confident knowing life can and will continue without him if he chooses to disrespect our family again.

[danny11]

Sounds like your holding resentment towards him, this doesn't mean you don't love him, how ever the resentment backs you in a corner and stacks on top of your love for him where you won't be able to feel it.

 

Im learning you can't change someone or make them love you and care for you, give it all you got and when theres nothing left to give LEAVE... he will come running after you and thats when your gonna have to decide if you want to push your resentment aside and let your love shine once more.

 

To be honest lot of women and men are quick to leave but in reality its better to work it out, in the end most people end up in the same type of marriage back to back..

 

they say all marriages are the same hell just a different devil.

[Calmandfocused]

Dreaming of tigers that was very good advice and I agree with you completely. I fully intend to schedule an appointment with a solicitor and I will. I'll do this for a couple of weeks time.

 

Danny, you make good points and ones I hadn't considered thank you. However I truly believe all the love has gone.

 

Husband is being really nice to me. I think he feels partly responsible for me getting sick and he knows something is very different now. We haven't addressed anything betwen us since I told him I wanted to separate. But right now he's taking interest in the children and is giving me no grief. I'm fine with this as I can concentrate on getting well.

 

Thanks again for all your posts. They are really helping me. I'm sorry to hear that many of you have been through this. Thanks for sharing.

[Calmandfocused]

Hi all

 

Well, after refusing to even discuss our relationship, hubby has told me that he will agree to a divorce and put the house up for sale. Obviously I'm pleased that he has reached this decision but here's the catch:

 

As expected he wants most of the money (80% ish) out of the future proceeds of the house. I know this is very unlikely so I said nothing. However what I'm panicking about is he is saying he won't settle for anything less than 50% custody of the children.

 

This is a man who doesn't wash/ cook/ clean for them, refuses to take them to medical appointments and has a fit if he has to have them for any length of time. Should I be concerned or is this an empty threat that is unlikely to happen?

 

I'm not saying that men shouldn't have 50/50 custody in different circumstances. However in my case this fills me with dread.

 

Any words of wisdom appreciated

[TaraMaiden2]

Hi all

 

Well, after refusing to even discuss our relationship, hubby has told me that he will agree to a divorce and put the house up for sale. Obviously I'm pleased that he has reached this decision but here's the catch:

 

As expected he wants most of the money (80% ish) out of the future proceeds of the house. I know this is very unlikely so I said nothing. However what I'm panicking about is he is saying he won't settle for anything less than 50% custody of the children.

 

This is a man who doesn't wash/ cook/ clean for them, refuses to take them to medical appointments and has a fit if he has to have them for any length of time. Should I be concerned or is this an empty threat that is unlikely to happen?

 

I'm not saying that men shouldn't have 50/50 custody in different circumstances. However in my case this fills me with dread.

 

Any words of wisdom appreciated

 

Speak to your lawyer.

Ensure you tell him everything about the latest development.

If you have been almost entirely responsible for the children up to now, it's unlikely the judge will see it his way. Unless he can prove that he will be a present and attentive father, he won't stand much of a chance.

[Calmandfocused]

Thank you Tara, I appreciated that.

 

I also should note that throughout this discussion he never once asked me what I wanted ( he did voluntarily offer me all the future though, isn't that nice?) :confused:All I heard was "I want, I want". Nothing about what's best for the children, only about what he's "entitled to". It took me all my willpower not to fly off the handle. Selfish isn't a strong enough word.

 

Narcissism probably is.

[Calmandfocused]

Sorry typo alert: future was meant to be furniture

[daisygirl19]

Hi all

 

Well, after refusing to even discuss our relationship, hubby has told me that he will agree to a divorce and put the house up for sale. Obviously I'm pleased that he has reached this decision but here's the catch:

 

As expected he wants most of the money (80% ish) out of the future proceeds of the house. I know this is very unlikely so I said nothing. However what I'm panicking about is he is saying he won't settle for anything less than 50% custody of the children.

 

This is a man who doesn't wash/ cook/ clean for them, refuses to take them to medical appointments and has a fit if he has to have them for any length of time. Should I be concerned or is this an empty threat that is unlikely to happen?

 

I'm not saying that men shouldn't have 50/50 custody in different circumstances. However in my case this fills me with dread.

 

Any words of wisdom appreciated

 

I feel your pain. The most difficult part of my divorce was "sharing" my kids. I did 99% of the work where they were concerned. My ex did nothing, didn't even know what time they had to be at school. He did nothing in terms of cooking, cleaning, helping with homework, helping me with the baby, etc.

 

Still, he was adamant that he have the kids 50% of the time, and they wanted the same. So, once I regrouped and realized that they did need, and deserved time with their dad equally, we went a bit unconventional.

 

In order for me to leave my babies with this man, who had never even bathed them, I needed to know, and have some control, over how he handled them and cared for them without me. So, my kids stayed in the marital home for 6 months, with my ex and I swapping out every two days. We established a schedule and stuck to it. This allowed me to "monitor" the house, make sure there was easy stuff for dinner, their clothes were clean, they were ready for school in the morning, etc. It also gave the kids time to get used to things, while leaving them in the same routine they'd always had.

 

Certainly there were bumps in the road, and it took us six months for him to get up to speed and for me to give up some control over how he dealt with our kids. But, it was the best thing for us, and it was well worth it when I see how far he's come in the last three years as a dad. Six months was such a small price to pay for the relationship they now have with each other. I certainly don't agree with everything he does, and how he parents them 100% of the time, but I have no doubt they are well cared for.

[SoleMate]

id be delighted if he met someone else. I often fantasise that he meets another woman and tells me he's leaving me. Id be over the moon. That's not normal Is it?

It's not normal, especially for the mother of young children. It demonstrates that this marriage is an extreme negative for you.

 

And I wouldn't bother with counseling, as it is not realistic to fix a serious character/personality flaw that way.

 

I do think you should be looking for a "bulldog" lawyer because he isn't going to go quietly and cooperatively. If he was cooperative and rational and kind and cared about other people and cared about his responsibilities, would you be divorcing him in the first place????

Agreed. Brace yourself for a major fight. And be aware that the fight is worth it, because you're fighting for your freedom, your quality of life, and your family's future.

 

OTOH there is a non-zero chance he may agree without too much of a slog, because deep down he doesn't really seem to care much. Regardless, be ready for anything and good luck! Wishing you brighter days ahead...

[Calmandfocused]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I have to date consulted with 2 solicitors, both who were very nice but I just didn't get the sense that they truly understood my fears regarding the children. It was mainly financial stuff and whilst this is of course important for the children, I just feel that matters such as where they should live etc is the first priority to address. Is this wrong?

 

I'm still on the hunt for the bulldog so I'll approach some more.

 

Anyway, I've been a been a blubbering mess these past couple of days. The divorce, court fees, court orders etc are an absolute fortune and that's if hubby agrees and doesn't contest anything, which is extremely unlikely. If This goes to court its 10k plus. I've no idea how I will raise that sort of cash. Since Ive learnt this I feel more trapped than ever. How have others managed to raise these astronomical fees based on the understanding that your not millionaires?

[carhill]

How have others managed to raise these astronomical fees based on the understanding that your not millionaires?

 

When I got divorced I paid my law firm's retainer in cash, actually a related matter for which the retainer wasn't so onerous, then grew that matter into family law at the same firm without additional retainer, then my lawyer suggested I pay the legal fees with a vanity credit card to earn miles and as part of a non-recourse debt bankruptcy strategy, meaning, worst case, I could file bankruptcy and discharge the debt. Heh. Worked great and paid for at least one trip to see friends. Didn't file bankruptcy. Six years later doing great. You'll make it.

[TaraMaiden2]

Fees normally come out of house sales and disposal of goods and chattels (car, caravan...yacht, Swiss Chalet, stable of racehorses, those kinds of things....! )

 

Remember to keep careful accounts and quotes from solicitors.

If you feel they have been negligent or have over-charged you, you can resort to the Ombudsman.

At the risk of sounding sexist - and I know it might sound like that - try to find a solicitor who acts for families, and may have connection to Child Support Services.

 

Possibly even a woman. I'm not saying a woman would be better at the job than a man, but you might be able to connect better with a female solicitor, on the parental front.

[PegNosePete]

I'm still on the hunt for the bulldog so I'll approach some more.

 

How have others managed to raise these astronomical fees based on the understanding that your not millionaires?

Well, don't get a "bulldog". Bulldogs have their place but the most important attribute for a lawyer is pragmatism. A "bulldog" will bite onto something and not let go, no matter the cost. Far better is a lawyer who will only hold on when the benefit justifies the fees.

 

As an example my ex had a car registered to my address. The tax renewal came to me, cost £20. I said if she sent me the £20 I would pay it for her and mail her the tax disc. She refused, and insisted all communication went through her solicitor. Her solicitor wrote to me, asking to forward the tax letter to them and they would pass it on to her. That £20 car tax probably cost her £200 or more in fees. It makes no sense whatsoever to deal with things in this manner!

[maacus]

The opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is selfishness. You have the answer. Your choice. Children needs good role models.

 

Interesting, the part that I bolded. I always heard that the opposite of love is apathy. That definition seemed to fit for me.

 

Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Back to the topic. And OP, I am reading your post and will respond in kind at some point. I DO wish you the very best.