Tony Posted June 11, 2005 Senior Moderators Share Posted June 11, 2005 There is no "end" of the world in the Biblical sense. The spirit lives on into infinity and into other places and forms. (Einstein proved this in irrefutable mathematical equations.) The Earth is simply the latest model vehicle for hauling bodies through the universe. Having the world blow up into a trillion bits would be akin to our '76 Chevy being carved up at the junkyard. It ceases to exist as a car but continues on in whatever it is melted into. The Earth will always be, in some form, on into infinity. There is no point in which God plans to undo the universe. At least that wasn't addressed in the Bible...and I do hate to put ideas into His mind. I think God's position would be that creating the universe was way too much work to just go behind and totally destroy it. The whole concept of the end of the world is rather nebulous and the Bible is filled with metaphors and parables. For individual consciousness, the world ends upon death. For all other purposes, it is more infinite than our mind can comprehend. Just as we are unable to imagine the world prior to its creation (being a completed nothingness), as humans we are ill equipped to contemplate its ending....with or without any Biblical assistance. There is no way of knowing exactly what the writers of the Bible meant in Revelations because they met their end long ago. The world will continue to exist forever in pefectly chaotic order unless, of course, a constitutional amendment is passed by Congress to the contrary. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I take a day off.......a thread starts, goes through all of this.......just last week I was thinkin' things were slow in this part of LS! To top things off, the man himself is posting too! (Tony the D.) "The end is near, the end is near"........you hear it all the time. We're guarenteed to see it in this generation according to Jesus. You have to keep in mind what a, "generation", is.....there was a generation before Noah, and a generation after, (we're that generation). A, "generation", from what I can gather in my Church is when mankind is completley erased from the face of the Earth, then, "re-generated". Ok, ok......so Noah and his family made it over, or bridged that generation gap. (One question I have when I get to Heaven is if Noah is the source of the alcoholic gene). Anyways.......it doesn't mean I'll be alive, or my kids will be alive when it happens.....but I do believe it'll be just like described in the Bible. So yes Hokey......if it happens in my lifetime.....I'll vanish......I do think the Bible is very literate and accurate with it's description of how it'll be. [color=red]The best thing for you Tiki to read is the series of books, "Left Behind", by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. They're fascinating books that'll grip you and keep you interested........[/color] There is a future for the animals too. The Lion will lay with the sheep......is mentioned in the Bible......and the Earth, like Tony the D. explained......Earth has a definite future as well......it'll be just as the garden of Eden was intended to be. One of the latest signs of the end, that I've noticed, is how the swamp lands in Iraq are rejuvinating. These are VERY Biblical times......anyone interested in hearing that story? If so......I'll start a new thread about it............. Anyway......I just felt like posting the first thought that came to my mind after reading all of this. Tiki, take my advice and check those books out......the first volume is, "Left Behind".......even if you're not sure what denomination you would like to follow, they are cool books...... Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by Chris777 (i was planning on skipping the first part of your post, but i ran across the mormon bit ) Mormons are not Christians, they follow extremely different doctrines, and books. mormonism is more like islam, false prophet. and interestingly enough look at the similarities between the 2 religions, it is almost as if the same demon inspired them both. As someone who grew up in a Mormon family and even served a Mormon mission, I find your statement extremely naive and devoid of any common sense. Furthermore, I don't respect your your superiority complex; it isn't conducive to the spirit of brotherhood that we all share as human beings forced to occupy the same planet. Besides, you're way off base comparing Mormonism to Islam. If you compared Islam to Judaism, or Early Christianity, I'd be more receptive. If you compared Mormons to Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodists, and Seventh-day Adventists, I'd be more receptive. The latter are derivatives of Christianity, and each likes to view scripture from a retrospective point of view, at the expense of objectivity. I couldn't care less about Mormonism anymore, but I'd have to say that if you ever took the time to visit a Mormon chapel, you'd see just how Christian they really are. It's got a Mormon spin on it, but every group puts its own spin on religious dogma... how else can you account for so many different flavors? Your problem is you can't accept this. Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Originally posted by Chris777 mormons believe that we are all "little gods" in training, and that we will each aquire our own planet to be the god of when we grow up. How is this gonna hurt you? I guess it's okay to hate a group because they believe differently. The question should be, why does this offend you? And don't give me the Bible excuse. I wanna know why it offends you personally. again, just because someone claims to be something doesn't make it so That's your opinion. However, the Mormons couldn't care less. They have their own state now with plenty of corporate dollars rolling in. Bastards actually did it! And so what if they're revising their own history... history is written by the winners, not the losers. In today's society, public relations is more effective than preaching from a soap box. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 On my planet, you could eat hamburgers all day and not gain weight. God is GOOD. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Hmmmmm, I might visit sometime Spock........I will have that ability......but only for a snack and maybe two if you can hold my ear long enough that is...... Link to post Share on other sites
nightwish33150 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by tiki So....what happens when they're left here on Earth? I thought they were supposedly going to Hell for not following Christ? Their bodies stay here? Their souls? They stay here and party with the best of 'em? Or what? Or is that just Protestants that believe that? Not the Christians? HELP! methodist baptist catholic lutheran etc....there all christian no matter the name and also we read from the same bibal so were christian different name and different practices but in general christians Link to post Share on other sites
nightwish33150 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Moose I take a day off.......a thread starts, goes through all of this.......just last week I was thinkin' things were slow in this part of LS! To top things off, the man himself is posting too! (Tony the D.) "The end is near, the end is near"........you hear it all the time. We're guarenteed to see it in this generation according to Jesus. You have to keep in mind what a, "generation", is.....there was a generation before Noah, and a generation after, (we're that generation). A, "generation", from what I can gather in my Church is when mankind is completley erased from the face of the Earth, then, "re-generated". Ok, ok......so Noah and his family made it over, or bridged that generation gap. (One question I have when I get to Heaven is if Noah is the source of the alcoholic gene). Anyways.......it doesn't mean I'll be alive, or my kids will be alive when it happens.....but I do believe it'll be just like described in the Bible. So yes Hokey......if it happens in my lifetime.....I'll vanish......I do think the Bible is very literate and accurate with it's description of how it'll be. [color=red]The best thing for you Tiki to read is the series of books, "Left Behind", by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. They're fascinating books that'll grip you and keep you interested........[/color] There is a future for the animals too. The Lion will lay with the sheep......is mentioned in the Bible......and the Earth, like Tony the D. explained......Earth has a definite future as well......it'll be just as the garden of Eden was intended to be. One of the latest signs of the end, that I've noticed, is how the swamp lands in Iraq are rejuvinating. These are VERY Biblical times......anyone interested in hearing that story? If so......I'll start a new thread about it............. Anyway......I just felt like posting the first thought that came to my mind after reading all of this. Tiki, take my advice and check those books out......the first volume is, "Left Behind".......even if you're not sure what denomination you would like to follow, they are cool books...... please explain to me the whole iraq thing? in a new thread Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted June 13, 2005 Senior Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2005 It has come to my attention that the world ends a week from next Thursday. However, your MasterCard bill is still due. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Humbledog Again, I must ask.... Than are we just a splatter on a canvas that has no meaning or concern or do we have a purpous? I believe all lifeforms have a purpous!!! Your statement has led me to believe that we are just here with no meaning!!! Not trying to challenge you, but your statement has made me curious, and I have some strong evidence that does not portray us as a totally disreguarded random act!!! It seems to me there is something to our exsistence..... Who knows...... But interesting viewpoint, just asking you to elaborate!!! To address your question, just because a being is greater than you and perceives the world differently does not erase any meaning. You create the meaning in your life. No one else does it. Read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. He was in Auschwitz, a Jewish death camp, during WWII for 5 years. He lost his wife and his life's work and saw his friends die around him. At one point he questioned his faith. He determined that the difference between those who died and those who kept going, even though they all suffered the same diseases and malnutrition, wasn't just genetics -- it was that those who believed they created a meaning in their own lives retained a shred of hope. Personally I am buddhist, so I don't believe in God the same way you do. I was raised Catholic and am aware of the theology, but my personal experience has led me on a different path. Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted June 13, 2005 Senior Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2005 "Personally I am buddhist, so I don't believe in God the same way you do. I was raised Catholic and am aware of the theology, but my personal experience has led me on a different path." I have never seen Buddhism as a religion as much as it is a way of life, a philosophy of living...and a pretty good one at that. I think you can be Catholic or whatever and subscribe to Buddhist principles at the same time...I know a lot who do. I am unaware of any deity involved in Buddhism but correct me if I'm wrong. I also think you can live according to Buddhist principles and skip the God stuff entirely if you wish. It's all how you see it. There actually are a lot of similarities between Buddhism and Christianity, of the teachings of Christ (loving, forgiveness, etc.). I've read some books on the comparison. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Tony "Personally I am buddhist, so I don't believe in God the same way you do. I was raised Catholic and am aware of the theology, but my personal experience has led me on a different path." I have never seen Buddhism as a religion as much as it is a way of life, a philosophy of living...and a pretty good one at that. I think you can be Catholic or whatever and subscribe to Buddhist principles at the same time...I know a lot who do. I am unaware of any deity involved in Buddhism but correct me if I'm wrong. I also think you can live according to Buddhist principles and skip the God stuff entirely if you wish. It's all how you see it. There actually are a lot of similarities between Buddhism and Christianity, of the teachings of Christ (loving, forgiveness, etc.). I've read some books on the comparison. Thich Nhat Hanh's "Living Buddha, Living Christ" comes to mind. Buddhists believe that God(s) are deluded beings, just like the rest of us. In fact, some stories of Siddhartha relate gods actually visiting him to hear him speak in order to attain enlightenment. God(s) can attain enlightenment, as any being can. The definition of "religion" does not center on deism, AFAIK. Siddhartha happens to be the spiritual leader, but in Buddhism you can have spiritual ancestors as they are called. Jesus Christ is one of my spiritual ancestors. I just believe his teachings have been twisted by the insitutions that were created following his death. Religion: A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 blind_otter I just believe his teachings have been twisted by the insitutions that were created following his death.You are guilty of it. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead You are guilty of it. Of what? Remember, no personal attacks, BH.... Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 blind_otter Of what? Remember, no personal attacks, BH....I haven't forgotten. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=474618#post474618 Link to post Share on other sites
Pocky Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Tony "Personally I am buddhist, so I don't believe in God the same way you do. I was raised Catholic and am aware of the theology, but my personal experience has led me on a different path." I have never seen Buddhism as a religion as much as it is a way of life, a philosophy of living...and a pretty good one at that. I think you can be Catholic or whatever and subscribe to Buddhist principles at the same time...I know a lot who do. I am unaware of any deity involved in Buddhism but correct me if I'm wrong. I also think you can live according to Buddhist principles and skip the God stuff entirely if you wish. It's all how you see it. There actually are a lot of similarities between Buddhism and Christianity, of the teachings of Christ (loving, forgiveness, etc.). I've read some books on the comparison. Depends on which sect of Buddhism you're referring to. Tibetan Buddhism is extremely ritualistic and is similar to traditions in Catholicism. However, the original form of Buddhism, Theravada Buddhism, which directly follows the teachings of the Buddha, aligns more to a philosophy than a religion since it doesn't emphasize many of the characteristics found in the term religion. I assume though that since all sects of Buddhism attempts to understand the purpose of spiritual things, it is commonly referred to as a religion. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead I haven't forgotten. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=474618#post474618 SIGH. You refuse to clarify your positions on anything. I agree with moi on this one. You obfuscate to distract people from your inability to be solid on any of your positions. So, you've lost another poster to your inability to be clear. Ignore. Link to post Share on other sites
Humbledog Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter To address your question, just because a being is greater than you and perceives the world differently does not erase any meaning. You create the meaning in your life. No one else does it. Read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. He was in Auschwitz, a Jewish death camp, during WWII for 5 years. He lost his wife and his life's work and saw his friends die around him. At one point he questioned his faith. He determined that the difference between those who died and those who kept going, even though they all suffered the same diseases and malnutrition, wasn't just genetics -- it was that those who believed they created a meaning in their own lives retained a shred of hope. Personally I am buddhist, so I don't believe in God the same way you do. I was raised Catholic and am aware of the theology, but my personal experience has led me on a different path. Thank's Blind_Otter!!! I myself am spiritual but not religious. As the bumper sticker say's, "God is to big to fit into one religion". Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 As the bumper sticker say's, "God is to big to fit into one religion". I suspect He fits very handily into bits of all religions with a lot more left over to be discovered Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 blind_otter Thich Nhat Hanh's "Living Buddha, Living Christ" comes to mind.Is this where you got the interpretation of saved criminal (crucified with Jesus)? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=474618#post474618 I know I must read between the lines because certain people just won't disclose their sources. If you are going to endorse a book, you should be honest about what you are lifting from its pages. Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 The original posting was about the end times - eschatology as it formally known. For anyone who naievely believes the bible to be the true word of god, Jesus, when he spoke of the catastrophic end times said that "these things will come into being before your generation has passed away". So it is obviously the people of his day that he was speaking to. In case you haven't noticed, that was over 2000 years ago. Given the fact that the Romans sacked Jerusalem about 35 years after he said those words, it would be safe to conclude that the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans' under Titus, would be the end of those times. There was famine (according to historical accounts outside the bible, parents ate their own children to survive it), disease, a massive fire which gutted the whole city and then slavery followed. Pretty catastrophic. The Jews of that day lost their promised land. It is to these things that Jesus was speaking not some unforseen time 2000 years later - but that generation. Link to post Share on other sites
xfilthyxhalox Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Yea the end of the world is near because all worldly things are happening. Some signs are when there are wars starting to happen, gays and lesbians are everywhere, people are murdering people, and the temples are being rebuilt and the flowers over "whereever it is" start to bloom again. There will be an antichrist who tries to convice people he is going to make the world a better place when really he is a evil person. The rapture will happen and all the christians will go to heaven. As far as the other people on earth they will endure 1000 years of evil terrible things(not sure what) and after that god will throw satan into the lake of fire. it is in revelations. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 it is in revelations. Um. Xfilthy. The term 'gays and lesbians' did NOT exist in Jesus' time. People have been murdering people since Cain murdered Abel. There will be an antichrist who tries to convice people he is going to make the world a better place when really he is a evil person Well, if Bush didn't exist, then I wouldn't worry at all, but unfortunately he does. However, read ollydolly's post. That's the real information. Link to post Share on other sites
xfilthyxhalox Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 moimeme yea i think ur a dumb one... haha Yea but gays and LESBOS werent so wildly talked about back in the day. Remember god destoryed babalon for a reason. Yeah if you read the bible there are a few signs u can tell it is near sometime. and more murder, wars, lesbians running around, and the temples being rebuilt are signs. so whatever go read it yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 moimeme Well, if Bush didn't exist, then I wouldn't worry at all, but unfortunately he does.Acute Bushinitis. Only Dr. Kevorkian can cure it. Link to post Share on other sites
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