PatientOne Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by Moose So now I'm a fundamentalist......interesting......new one on me. I speak truth. From God's inspired word and I spread it like I'm commanded too. To you they're opinions and if you choose to believe it's a result of my Brain being re-wired by some fundamental Church......so be it. The word is IN me......there's no denying it. I don't care to have a piece of friggin' paper saying I hold a certain amount of worldly knowledge. I know in my heart what is truth and it'll piss a lot of people off. (I've been warned by God Himself that'll happen)....... Actually Moose, you are what most of us consider to be a "Fundamentalist." It's just always a surprise to Fundies when others refer to them that way- none of the group I used to hang with thought of themselves that way either. Your absolute certainty of your participating in the Rapture, your warning from God himself cited above, your tendency to spout your beliefs as fact rather than beliefs- well, those are the things that make others peg you as a Fundamentalist. Although to be fair, you are at least nice about it. That can't be said of some of the other fire and brimstone spouters here. On edit and to answer your question Originally posted by Moose Ok, who else didn't make any sense of my post? I thought it was as obvious as the sky being blue......... That last post didn't make much sense, no. John Kerry ??? Sheesh, your man won- get over it! Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Well, I suppose I can live with being a fundamentalist.......no biggie. Your absolute certainty of your participating in the Rapture,Actually......I'm not absolute about me being around for the rapture.....I'm absolute that it will take place, that doesn't mean I'll still be alive when it happens. I may of already passed on.your warning from God himselfI'm referring to His word as stated in the Scriptures.your tendency to spout your beliefs as fact rather than beliefsThey are facts........proven and being proven. Just because others look at them differently and explain them away doesn't mean they aren't in fact......fact.That last post didn't make much sense, no. John Kerry ???So, Moi can say......"OllyDolly's post is real information", then in the next breathe say, "That someone posts his opinions on a website does not make him an 'expert' even if he calls himself one." She's flip floppin' around.....picking to agree with someone when it's convenient for her.......like John Kerry..... Sheesh, your man won- get over it!Of course he won. Would you believe it if I told you that God planned it that way????? Probably not.......... Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by Moose BTW......thanks Confused.......B'sIC!!!! Spread the Gospelbrother! I wish I was able to articulate Christianity as well as you. My Discipleship consists of mostly me doing things in Christ's name (teaching motorcyclist to ride safely, praising God through music, etc.) I'm just a baby Christian but I'm getting there. And all I things I do is for Christ's glory B'sIC!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead Two question. 1. How can sailors navigate with a flat earth map especially over long distances? 2. Why would such radical non-scholastic monastics travel with round earth sailors? Funny. You use it to browbeat Christians. How subjective is that? 1. ollydolly probably isn't a very good historian Ever heard of walking? It was once a fairly common method of transport - especially in the middle ages. Nobody is browbeating you BH - as I said, you're pretty fragile and have probably inherited the persecution complex typical to christians. Nobody is going to feed you to the lions. I don't remember saying I was "an historian" - haven't written any books on the subject, don't plan to. You have this habit of evading points in people's posts, to pick up on some extraneous detail and do a macho flash. It's tedious. I never got a decent answer about where faith can sit in the rational mind - that was my laboured point and none of you brethren in christ addressed it. My original post stated that you cannot have a SANE dialogue with a fundamentalist - you have just proved it again. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ......"OllyDolly's post is real information", then in the next breathe say, "That someone posts his opinions on a website does not make him an 'expert' even if he calls himself one." The difference is that OllyDolly was talking about things learned during the process of earning three degrees in subjects such as theology rather than spouting uneducated 'opinion'. Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Um. I hope you didn't mean that quite the way it sounds. The reason you got into this dispute was that you were discussing with folks who generally do trust their capacities to 'think for themselves' rather than finding out what experts on topics have to say. I agree that one ought not surrender one's brain to any particular 'expert' and certainly that people who claim expertise need to back that up with more than their own claims, however IMHO it is vital to read what genuine experts have written, weigh it carefully, conduct your own analysis, and then make judgements. It is because people rely far too much on their own judgement without the aid of any information that a lot of problems exist. Moimeme - I'm not sure how it sounds :-) BH does not think for himself - as his signature sign off states, he is just a "clever borrower" with a bee in his bonnet. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme The difference is that OllyDolly was talking about things learned during the process of earning three degrees in subjects such as theology rather than spouting uneducated 'opinion'. Had she studied the subject in depth like you're assuming she did, surely she would've had the knowledge to point out that Christ was speaking of both the fall of Jews and the ultimate destruction of the entire world. But she didn't.......I never got a decent answer about where faith can sit in the rational mindIt's no different than science OllyDolly. Just as scientists have their tests and evidence and believe what they've seen, touched, and heard is truth........so do Christians. The only difference is that with science, anyone can experience, touch, feel the evidence.......with the Christian, it's a personal experience unique to each individual. We have our proof in the word of God, we see the evidence in the events around us, and more than any scientist could ever have, we have the Lord Himself living in our hearts.......that beats any scientific explanation any human could ever conjure up. Yes, I have a sane mind........even you can experience it.......but you have to be willing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tiki Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Moose: (or anyone else) From your Biblical knowledge, and from a Biblical standpoint, what expectations do you have for things that will be going on beforehand to the second coming of Christ? Changes in the sun/moon? An anti-christ? Weird and unseasonal weather patterns? Raging sexuality? What else? And honestly, how close do you think we are? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tiki, here's something that just happend last weekend: http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/commentary/tw-comm.cgi?action=view_comm This is what I mean about events around us taking place........the new pope, the 10 nations.......it's all in revelations. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Ratzinger's in revelations? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 And honestly, how close do you think we are?I forgot to answer this one.......no man knows, only the Father.......but if I had to guess given what's been going on lately, I'm almost certain that at least my children's children will be witness to the rapture. No one knows for sure........there aren't many prophesies left to fulfill, let's put it that way. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Had she studied the subject in depth like you're assuming she did, surely she would've had the knowledge to point out that Christ was speaking of both the fall of Jews and the ultimate destruction of the entire world. LOL "If she was so smart, then she'd know that I was right" ROTFL You're a cutie, Moose. I know you have a good heart and that you're a good guy. God bless you. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 moimeme The difference is that OllyDolly was talking about things learned during the process of earning three degrees in subjects such as theology rather than spouting uneducated 'opinion'.You don't know my credentials. I never had to use them to back baseless arguments. If you think wikipedia.org is a source of "uneducation 'opinion'", then supply an alternative which would support her claims. I know you don't know what her educational background is. I think her use of propaganda is more than enough to discredit her. If anything, she was probably stamped out at some liberal indoctrination center. I don't think she has psychological problems. ollydolly BH does not think for himself - as his signature sign off states, he is just a "clever borrower" with a bee in his bonnet.I think I have a certain level of awareness allowing me to see so-called know-it-alls as they really are. I think I am humble enough to acknowledge it in myself. Do you know what it means to be humble? Do you see the stupidity of arrogance? moimeme "If she was so smart, then she'd know that I was right" ROTFLIs this your evidence? I guess it is. The End of the World - A Biblical Perspective I don't understand the concern for the end of the world. When it happens, it happens. Jesus didn't know when it will happen so why should we know? Mat 24:36 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tiki Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead I don't understand the concern for the end of the world. When it happens, it happens. Jesus didn't know when it will happen so why should we know? It's not a concern, it's an interest. Read the first post. I could care less when it happens, I've got my bags packed. It's an interest, not some kind of fear. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 tiki ...I've got my bags packed.Um... Where would you go? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by tiki It's not a concern, it's an interest. Read the first post. I could care less when it happens, I've got my bags packed. It's an interest, not some kind of fear. Tiki.....did you come to a decision that you haven't told us about? (I thought you were still searching).......... Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead I think I am humble enough to acknowledge it in myself. Do you know what it means to be humble? Do you see the stupidity of arrogance? Arrogance is not the opposite of humility - pride is. And no, I don't go through life thinking being humble is a virtue. No one likes the feeling of being humiliated - why the hell label it a virtue? I admire proud people. To be proud is a state of mind when you know you are achieving in life the IDEALS you hold sacred in your mind and heart. It cannot be faked, it cannot be taken away from you and it doesn't come easily. It has to be earned and you are your own hardest judge. When we sincerely raise children, we teach them to develop moral character so that they can be proud of who they are. If they do not have moral character, they have no pride and crippling humiliation is the emotion they experience most of the time. To cover this, they may develop arrogance in it's stead. Arrogance is one who puts on an appearance of pride in order to mask his own inferiority. Quite different things. Proud people admire other proud people - they feel comfortable around them. Humble people admire other humble people - they feel comfortable around them. Nobody admires arrogant people - especially other arrogant people. They know they are in the presence of someone who is trying to fake who they are. Yes, I do see the stupidity of arrogance - but I'd call it the tragedy of arrogance. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 I admire proud people. To be proud is a state of mind when you know you are achieving in life the IDEALS you hold sacred in your mind and heart. It cannot be faked, it cannot be taken away from you and it doesn't come easily. It has to be earned and you are your own hardest judge. Really, this is amazing.......I couldn't of said it better.......I want to add something in your next quote though.....You said this......:When we sincerely raise children, we teach them to develop moral character so that they can be proud of who they are. If they do not have moral character, they have no pride and crippling humiliation is the emotion they experience most of the time. To cover this, they may develop arrogance in it's stead.I thought it appropriate to show what should've really been said in bold:When we sincerely do our best to raise children, we try to teach them to develop moral character so that they can be proud of who they are. If (WE) do not have moral character, they will not have any pride and only crippling humiliation will be the emotion they experience most of the time. To cover this, they may develop arrogance in it's stead.See how easy it is to place blame where it does or doesn't belong????Yes, I do see the stupidity of arrogance - but I'd call it the tragedy of arrogance.Yeah, I see it as human nature.....think about that for a few minutes...... Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Originally posted by Moose See how easy it is to place blame where it does or doesn't belong???? Sorry Moose, I didn't quite get your point on this one. Did you mean that unless parents have moral character themselves, they will not be able to pass it down to their children? If that is your drift, then I agree wholeheartedly. Not sure what you mean by blame. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tiki Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead Um... Where would you go? Heaven. Originally posted by Moose Tiki.....did you come to a decision that you haven't told us about? (I thought you were still searching).......... Sorry. The bickering back and forth over off-topic crap has a way of turning me off. I don't think it's as near as what I thought it was. Thanks for asking. -------------------------------------------------------- Now back to your regularly scheduled feces throwing... Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Arrogance is not the opposite of humility - pride is. And no, I don't go through life thinking being humble is a virtue. No one likes the feeling of being humiliated - why the hell label it a virtue? Um. Humility is not 'the feeling of being humiliated'. Humility the opposite of pride; 'pride' being defined as self-satisfied complacency that one is better than others. Humility is not thinking oneself better than others. Remember 'the first shall be last and the last first'? 'The meek shall inherit the earth'? 'Pride goeth before a fall'? Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Humility the opposite of pride; 'pride' being defined as self-satisfied complacency that one is better than others. I have never heard a worse or more misleading definition of pride. Self satisfaction is one of the greatest achievements a soul can attain, or have you not seen how prevalent self loathing is amongst our species? How that links to complacency that one is better than others eludes me. When someone truly is proud of their life - what others are or aren't is of no relevance. There in lies a proud man or woman's humility. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 ollydolly Arrogant people seem to have trouble understanding the stupidity of arrogance, the concept of humility, and real charity. You can't explain something to a person who can't conprehend it. Those questions are more like a litmus test. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I have never heard a worse or more misleading definition of pride. Ollydolly and BH, you both need to spend a little more time with dictionaries and with learning semantics - as well as maybe a course in Bible study. I was discussing pride as one of the Seven Deadly Sins. The word 'pride' has a number of nuances, including the one I mentioned, which is synonymous with extreme conceit, also known as 'superbia'. pride n 1: a feeling of self-respect and personal worth [syn: pridefulness] [ant: humility] 2: satisfaction with your (or another's) achievements; "he takes pride in his son's success" 3: the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards [ant: humility] 4: a group of lions 5: unreasonable and inordinate self-esteem (personified as one of the deadly sins) [syn: superbia] v : be proud of; "He prides himself on making it into law school" [syn: plume, congratulate] from dictionary.com Arrogant people seem to have trouble understanding the stupidity of arrogance, the concept of humility, and real charity. You can't explain something to a person who can't conprehend it. Thanks for saving me from saying it, BH. I couldn't agree more. "arrogance"; what arrogant men call principled women. "principled"; what arrogant men call themselves Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted July 4, 2005 Senior Moderators Share Posted July 4, 2005 So, has the world come to an end yet or did this thread just take a different direction? Link to post Share on other sites
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