Spouse said choose her or my daughter!

[jmerrill13]

Everyone I need some advice. I am new so I hope I am doing this correctly.I have been married with my current spouse for almost 3 years. It is the second marriage for both of us. We have 7 kids together but we both have an 18 year old daughter. They are polar opposites. Have clashed and fought the entire time. My daughter was abused in many ways by her own mother and has behavioral issues which i explained many times before we married. My daughter took clothes and money from her step-sister and a couple clashes. My step-daughter is a quiet but manipulative girl that non-stop tattled and worked on causing troubles but was doing the same things she was tattling about. She is mommys little baby and it shows. This past week after years of battling my wife came to me during a fight and said "Either your daughter moves out or I do". Even though my daughter is difficult and I love my wife, I chose my daughter. My wife packed up her stuff and moved out of state back home. Did I make the right decision. I miss her but I am super angry. Thanks everyone for any responses.

 

J

[Tread Carefully]

Yes, you did. Imo, never ever abandon your children for someone else. Your kids are your kids forever. They don't stop needing you at the magic age of 18.

 

I can understand your wifes frustration but it's never right to issue an ultimatum like that. Being parents is hard work that doesn't stop. Being parents in blended families is even harder. The parents need to come together and support one another to work through every obstacle and challenge. Issuing ultimatums and then bailing is very immature behavior.

 

Hopefully when you both calm down you can talk this through and agree to go to counseling together to learn how to be a team and come up with a game plan to overcome these obstacles. I wish you luck, hang in there!

[Mr. Lucky]

Did I make the right decision. I miss her but I am super angry. Thanks everyone for any responses.

 

Someone that truly loves you wouldn't put you in that position. How would your wife feel were you to kick her daughter out ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[d0nnivain]

What a ridiculous ultimatum. Of course you had to chose your daughter. At 18 she is still a child while your spouse is a grown woman who is supposed to be mature & have some problem solving skills.

 

When somebody demands I chose, I always pick the person who isn't so demanding.

[dreamingoftigers]

Who exactly is the child in this situation??!!!?!

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Everyone I need some advice. I am new so I hope I am doing this correctly.I have been married with my current spouse for almost 3 years. It is the second marriage for both of us. We have 7 kids together but we both have an 18 year old daughter. They are polar opposites. Have clashed and fought the entire time. My daughter was abused in many ways by her own mother and has behavioral issues which i explained many times before we married. My daughter took clothes and money from her step-sister and a couple clashes. My step-daughter is a quiet but manipulative girl that non-stop tattled and worked on causing troubles but was doing the same things she was tattling about. She is mommys little baby and it shows. This past week after years of battling my wife came to me during a fight and said "Either your daughter moves out or I do". Even though my daughter is difficult and I love my wife, I chose my daughter. My wife packed up her stuff and moved out of state back home. Did I make the right decision. I miss her but I am super angry. Thanks everyone for any responses.

 

J

 

 

 

The tone of your writing gives this away.

 

 

And yes, you did the right thing... for you.

 

 

 

Though it remains doubtful that your daughter will gain anything from the episode which will make her a better person over the long haul.

[ChickiePops]

Of course you did the right thing..that's your kid!

 

That being said, it sounds like your daughter needs outside help. Is she in therapy?

[MidwestUSA]

My husband's ex pulled the same stunt. Wanted to punt his teenaged daughter off to foster care or onto the streets. He refused.

 

The wife was gone one day when he came home. Cleaned out his accounts, hadn't made the mortgage payment in months. Daughter was 16 and in her words, it was 'the happiest day of her life when that bitch left'.

 

He recovered; you will too.

[SammySammy]

The tone of your writing gives this away.

 

 

And yes, you did the right thing... for you.

 

 

 

Though it remains doubtful that your daughter will gain anything from the episode which will make her a better person over the long haul.

 

I have to agree with this.

 

Normally, I would always choose a child over a woman in my life. However, this "child" is 18 years old. And there are at least six other children involved whose lives have been ripped apart because an 18 year old is using past abuse as an excuse to steal, be manipulative and disruptive to the whole family.

 

That's simply unfair and unacceptable. I totally understand your wife's frustration.

 

Eighteen is the age of majority in most places. Either she needs to learn to co-exist with the family or make her own way. There is no way I would have let a grown child rip apart my household.

 

When I was eighteen, I couldn't abide by my parents rule either. So, I left and haven't looked back. But, my father never had to ask who would have to leave - me or my mother. lol Especially with five other kids in the house. I had to go. And I did.

[xxoo]

You were right to choose your daughter, and she was right to choose her daughter.

 

What a mess. I hope your daughter recognizes her responsibility and makes amends for stealing.

[testmeasure]

We have 7 kids together but we both have an 18 year old daughter.

 

Ok, I'm going to press pause and ask a question.

 

It's clear from other context that there are two 18 year old daughters, meaning "we both" actually is "we each".

 

We have 7 kids together but "we each" have an 18 year old daughter.

 

That sentence literally reads the 2 of you had 7 kids together, but each have an 18 year old daughter from a prior marriage, for a total of 9 kids, 7 of which you both had together. You've been married only 3 years, but who knows how long you were together prior to that.

 

Somehow, either from the largeness of the count or from the 3 year marraige, it seems more probable you meant:

 

All together we have 7 kids, included in which we each have an 18 year old daughter from a prior marriage.

 

That still makes it unclear whether you're both the parents of the other 5. Or, some number of the other 5.

 

I think somehow everyone posting has jumped to the conclusion that you meant:

 

We have a total of 7 kids, all from prior marriages, none of which belong to both of us together, included in which we each have an 18 year old daughter.

 

So, the question I want to pause to ask is: Which is it?

 

.

[ASG]

Ok, I'm going to press pause and ask a question.

 

It's clear from other context that there are two 18 year old daughters, meaning "we both" actually is "we each".

 

We have 7 kids together but "we each" have an 18 year old daughter.

 

That sentence literally reads the 2 of you had 7 kids together, but each have an 18 year old daughter from a prior marriage, for a total of 9 kids, 7 of which you both had together. You've been married only 3 years, but who knows how long you were together prior to that.

 

Somehow, either from the largeness of the count or from the 3 year marraige, it seems more probable you meant:

 

All together we have 7 kids, included in which we each have an 18 year old daughter from a prior marriage.

 

That still makes it unclear whether you're both the parents of the other 5. Or, some number of the other 5.

 

I think somehow everyone posting has jumped to the conclusion that you meant:

 

We have a total of 7 kids, all from prior marriages, none of which belong to both of us together, included in which we each have an 18 year old daughter.

 

So, the question I want to pause to ask is: Which is it?

 

.

 

Why is it relevant???

[LaraC]

Well I think your wife really showed her true colors. She wasn't in it for the good of the family but had to be the queen bee and her daughter's needs given priority ...or else. The job of mom /step mom and dad/step dad is to be a role model, to strive to be the glue that holds everyone together (and you need a lot more glue and patience in a blended family), not to engage in damaging competitions with minors.

 

Still, by your description that's two selfish, self-centered women that you have married. The first one who abused her daughter and the second who would stoop to ask a dad to choose between his own kid or his wife. I'd spend some time reflecting on your own upbringing, and your method of selecting women to be in your life. Why have you repeatedly chosen this type of woman? What happened before when you dated a woman who is not an alpha-type dominant female? Are you not attracted to passive, less competitive women?

[Ms. Faust]

Hmm, I am going to go against the grain and say that there is not enough information provided to say, AND the OP is going to be naturally biased toward his own daughter when telling his version of events. If the daughter was under 18 this would be a no brainer, and yes, the Wife would be completely out of line. But since this "child" is technically an adult then there are more questions to be had:

 

What is she doing to better herself? Does the daughter go to school or have a job?

Is the daughter involved in anything illicit? She has already taken money from the step sister, has she done anything else?

Are the siblings younger? Are they children of the marriage? Is she combative with the other siblings as well?

What have the parents done TOGETHER to keep the daughter in line? What ultimatums and consequences did she have for her actions?

Is the daughter in therapy or on medication?

Was the daughter physical with the step daughter? Was she physical with anyone else?

 

Why is it relevant???

 

It's relevant because the OP has at least 5-7 other children that could potentially be with his wife. Unfortunately, he was not clear with that, or whether or not they were underage. Obviously one cannot have that many kids in a span of 3 years, but are ANY of the children of the marriage? If those kids are from the relationship, should they suffer through their family unit being split for one ADULT child who the OP has admitted is lying and stealing?

 

Even if no kids of the marriage are involved, I would still need more info to say for sure whether or not the right decision was made.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Ms. Faust

[trailrunner1975]

18 years is an adult. The stealing from others would get her kicked out of my house ASAP.

[Redhead14]

You were right to choose your daughter, and she was right to choose her daughter.

 

What a mess. I hope your daughter recognizes her responsibility and makes amends for stealing.

 

He allowed his unruly/dysfunctional child to come between him and his wife. What kind of message does that send to the children? Allowing a child to have that kind of power further enables and fuels their dysfunctional behavior . . . A father who allows a child to rule his home relinquishes the respect of the children and shakes the trust and security of the rest of the household. He should have asked the daughter to leave the home or at least get her into counseling and demonstrate to his wife that he is willing to be proactive about the situation.

 

I hope your daughter recognizes her responsibility and makes amends for stealing -- She doesn't have responsibilility for this situation . . . she is a child. It is his responsibility to create boundaries and maintain his parenting role and uphold the dual parenting model.

[xxoo]

He allowed his unruly/dysfunctional child to come between him and his wife. What kind of message does that send to the children? Allowing a child to have that kind of power further enables and fuels their dysfunctional behavior . . . A father who allows a child to rule his home relinquishes the respect of the children and shakes the trust and security of the rest of the household. He should have asked the daughter to leave the home or at least get her into counseling and demonstrate to his wife that he is willing to be proactive about the situation.

 

I hope your daughter recognizes her responsibility and makes amends for stealing -- She doesn't have responsibilility for this situation . . . she is a child. It is his responsibility to create boundaries and maintain his parenting role and uphold the dual parenting model.

 

She's 18. Of course she is responsible for her stealing.

 

Everyone vilifying the wife (not meaning you, Redhead), I do agree with the wife's decision to leave. I would no sooner kick out my 18 year old than I would keep my 18 year old in a home with a troubled step-sibling who is stealing from her. I'm not so sure I see her as giving an ultimatum so much as stating the reality: as long as your daughter is here, we need to go. I'm assuming she took her kids with her, but it's unclear about which kids are his/hers/theirs.

[LaraC]

[] if you want a healthy relationship with your step kids... if the idea of being a family unit is more important to you than competing with potentially abused minors who are looking for guidance and reassurance, and if you would rather act in fairness than promote your OWN biological kids to the top of the pecking order just to win at the step game, then please continue making all kids a #1 priority. Regardless of who birthed them. They will thank you profusely for generations to come.

Edited February 24, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
redacted rude sentence ~6

[testmeasure]

want a healthy relationship with your step kids...

 

Yet again, it's taken for granted they are all "step kids". Yet, nowhere does the original poster say that.

 

Why is it relevant???

 

I don't know till I hear the story. (In what follows I'll type more words than I should to illustrate that.)

 

Maybe you're right and it's not relevant. I get that gut reaction. An ultimatum and fleeing the state doesn't sound great. Choosing a wife over a daughter doesn't sound great. Either side of this invokes triggering words that answer everything without knowing anything. You can't allow that to make you ignore the entire decision tree. So nothing else is relevant? Not even who 5 (or possibly 7) other kids belong to or where they ended up in the situation. Why on earth would that be relevant?

 

I'm sure you're right 5 children of unknown origin and unknown current status are totally irrelevant if you know that 2 adult parents are fighting over the interaction between two 18 year old step children. Why on earth would the interest of the actual 5 to 4 majority be relevant in any way. We don't need to know who they are or what happened to them. Maybe the two parents are at the OK Coral to fight it out, all that matters is we've got popcorn and a story about two 18 year olds. That's all that matters, because we're choosing sides based on trigger words.

 

I'm eating popcorn watching the duel. Why is anything about the other 5 kids relevant. Fine, let one or both of them dispose of kids from their joint marriage or other kids from other marriages on the way to this fight. I only want to see the fight between the 2 over the two 18 year olds. Let whoever has each of the 5 others throw them in a dumpster on the way to OK coral. I don't even want to know who or where they are. Let's just get rid of them. Nothing about those other 5 children matters:

 

Why is it relevant???

 

Indeed why is anything about the other 5 relevant. Let's throw them in a dumpster and eat popcorn and watch the fight between the 2 parents over the 2 18 year olds. What the heck, they're not relevant. We don't need to know if they belong to both of them or mostly one of them or who has them. "Why is it relevant???"

 

"Why is it relevant???" Really? Why is it relevant? Seriously? It's probably the most relevant thing. These are actually the majority impacted by the other 4. You don't want to know who these 5 are or anything about them? Huh? 100% of that majority of 5 is unable to fend for themselves. (Assumption - He called them kids, I'm assuming not adult children over age 18. <- me calling out my own assumption.) No, you're going to figure out right and wrong out of two conflicted parents over two at odds just of age adults as with complete disregard for 5 younger kids with feet on the ground in the situation you're judging. Really? Ok, let's look at what you won't.

 

Suppose she took her daughter and their 5 kids both of them had together, and fled the state. Suppose she took 5 kids that were his too and fled the state. That might not change the story for you, but I suspect it would for law enforcement and the courts. I don't know, hearing how that went down, might change my mind a bit. The state isn't going to eat popcorn and ignore the 5 other kids.

 

Suppose she abandon their 5 kids they had together, and fled the state leaving him to deal with the kids from their marriage. I don't know, hearing how that wend down might change my mind a bit. It might not change your evaluation, but this again I'm sure would change counselor's opinions and court determinations. The state isn't going to eat popcorn and ignore the 5 other kids.

 

--------------------------------------

 

There's a generic question on the table. Do you choose kids or wife? That's triggering a lot, with very little information. On the other side there's someone issues an ultimatum and then flees the state. That's triggering a lot with very little information.

 

Who the heck knows. If I heard the whole story, I might conclude if he had 4 kids from one marriage and she had 3 from another, they never should have gotten together. They're both totally wrong from day 1 and who ever can finally put an end to it is the good guy. Or I might conclude he was the best thing that ever happened to her and she's out of her mind to ever leave him, or vice versa.

 

We don't even know who's working and paying for the whole show. Suppose she's paying for it all, most of the children are hers, and hisdaughter is stilling her daughter's stuff on top of that. Does the provider being undermined matter? ... On the other side ... Suppose she watches Oprah all day and he pays for everything. His oldest daughter is of an age where she resents his money going to a 2nd adult doing nothing, and acts out on behalf of her other 5(or majority?) other siblings from her dad's previous marriage. Or she does the same for 5(or majority?) other siblings from both of them. That matter?

 

(a) There's a ton of kids, with it totally unclear who most of them belong to.

(b) There's a fight based on two 18 year olds, one from his prior marriage, one from her prior marriage.

© One party's reaction was to issue an ultimatum and then flee the state.

 

I can imagine stories where (a) and (b) justify ©. I can imagine stories (a) and (b) don't justify ©.

 

Party X issues an ultimatum.

Party Y declines to meet it.

Party X flees the state.

 

Who is right? Issuing an ultimatum can never be right? Really Never? Choosing 1 out of 5 of your children over the other parent can never be wrong? Really, never? 1 out of 5? Oh, that's right you know the other 5 aren't theirs together. Or for some reason that doesn't matter? We don't even know where the other 5 or possibly 7 are. ??? None of that matters. Huh?

 

--------------------------------------

 

Ok, let's go with these are all step kids for a sec.

 

That's the assumption everyone is making. It was my default assumption. Let's go with it and see how that assumption could pan out without making other additional assumptions.

 

1. She's got the 18 year old and 5 other kids from a previous marriage, while the other 18 year old is his only child.

 

If my 2nd wife is issuing an ultimatum over it, the actual options are: (a) side with her, along with 4 potential, and 1 proven trouble makers, or (b) no, it's me and my daughter. That doesn't fly. It can't. If there weren't ground rules to a relationship with prior kids that precluded this, that was the mistake. It doesn't work if a relationship requires you to choose against your only child. I'm out.

 

2. He's got the 18 year old and 5 other kids from a previous marriage, while her only child is the other18 year old.

 

If my 2nd wife has one kid to her name and my oldest of 6 is dorking with my 2nd wife's only child, but otherwise the entire family is functioning properly, to the benefit of my other 5 kids... My oldest daughter is probably going to learn a lesson that suits the 2nd wife's needs.

 

--------------------------------------

 

There are 2 kids we know a little about. There are 5 or possibly 7 kids we know absolutely nothing about, nor do we even know where they landed in the outcome of this story. But you've got this completely figured out? Does what you've "figured out" say something about you, or something about the original poster?

 

Personally, based on the original post alone, I do lean toward the "majority" read of this. With what little information, my gut was to go with the guy who chose his daughter over an ultimatum issuing wife. (Those are both trigger things for me.) On first read, I assumed these were all step kids. If that's what most of us think, it may well be true, but OP didn't actually say it.

 

On second look, I noticed all the stuff that was still open to question. Really this post invites more questions than answers. I just tried to pick the biggest one...

 

You're telling us about two kids. There are 7? 9? What's up with the others?

 

Why is it relevant???

 

Indeed. Why would it be relevant? We are hearing about 2 out of 7 kids, why would the other 5 be relevant? If we got an answer, we might be able to help more. I can only imagine that would be relevant to me.

 

 

.

Edited February 20, 2016 by testmeasure

[ASG]

It's still not relevant, because no matter who the kids belong to, things have played out this way and it's done.

 

What does it matter if the other 5 kids are children of the marriage?

 

OP stood by his daughter and his wife left. So what difference does it make? The information would only serve for us to judge one or the other.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong in this case. Both parties are right. It's just a massive incompatibility. And ultimately, in that case, it doesn't really matter how many other people are affected, as the relationship is not sustainable.

[salparadise]

There is a definite order of operations (priorities) for healthy families. It's a practical necessity if the family is to remain intact. It's analogous to necessity of securing your own oxygen mask first. There are dependencies that cannot be reordered.

 

• self first
  
• spousal relationship
  
• family unit and household
  
• individual children
  

 

In the case of blended families you have to pay particular attention. When you're dating, esp. in the early stages, the children come first. But when you marry and bring everyone together under one roof you're creating a structured family, a system that must be maintained in order to be effective and survive.

 

In any family system, when one spouse replaces the other as his/her primary relationship with one (or more) of the children, it's just a matter of time before it collapses. The children have to learn their place in the hierarchy and conform to the larger system. If you allow a troubled child to rule the roost, everyone loses.

[salparadise]

In this particular situation there were a few things going on. First, I wonder if OPs troubled daughter was being enabled. OP explains her behavioral issues as being due to abuse from her mother. If she was getting by with the behavior based on having good reason to be this way, that's enabling as opposed to requiring her to conform to the family system. It sounds like she was being protected from having to suffer the consequences of her own bad behavior.

 

Secondly, she was clashing with her stepsister and the parents drew the lines of allegiance vertically based on biological relationships when it should've been drawn horizontally based on the hierarchical model above. Since both of these daughters were 18 years old, an ultimatum to conform or exit was an available option.

 

The wife issuing the ultimatum to the husband was a bad move and the final straw. Ultimatums such as this are always going to be divisive. The wife and husband should've been united in developing a systematic solution, vowing to never allow on individual child to split them, and the whole family, apart like this.

 

If the troubled daughter was determined to undermine the family unit, she should not have been allowed to continue living there. That doesn't mean the father would have to abandon her at all... just that she would not be allowed to have the power to destroy the whole family unit.

 

There is nothing wrong with requiring an adult (18) to take responsibility for their own behavior and their own life.

[Ms. Faust]

 

The wife issuing the ultimatum to the husband was a bad move and the final straw. Ultimatums such as this are always going to be divisive. The wife and husband should've been united in developing a systematic solution, vowing to never allow on individual child to split them, and the whole family, apart like this.

 

I do wonder what eventually led to the ultimatum. I would be surprised if one day she woke up and randomly decided to give this choice. I suspect that it was more consequences were given, there were no changes and, as you said, daddy enabling that led to this final straw.

 

Also, as someone else noted, the OP presented this story as vaguely as possible using trigger words and statements to incite peoples' emotions.

[salparadise]

I do wonder what eventually led to the ultimatum. I would be surprised if one day she woke up and randomly decided to give this choice. I suspect that it was more consequences were given, there were no changes and, as you said, daddy enabling that led to this final straw.

 

Also, as someone else noted, the OP presented this story as vaguely as possible using trigger words and statements to incite peoples' emotions.

 

I'm guessing that there was not an organized approach, emotions overruling strategic thinking, unruly daughter seeing the crack and driving a wedge in it, parents simply not knowing how to work as a team to manage, esp. with the biological daughters on both sides making emotional appeals to take sides.

 

On one level this was a management problem, on another level a parenting problem. They blew the management part, obviously, and my guess is that the behavior of the one daughter is the result of blowing the parenting aspect over about fifteen years.

 

The way to have dealt with this would have been for husband and wife together sitting down with defective daughter, husband speaking, to inform her of her choices... a) you harmonize in the family and treat all family members with due respect, b) you will be asked to leave. You will not be allowed to destroy the family unit or make anyone else's life miserable. We are not asking you to agree- we are informing you. You are 18. And then, if she can't pull her sh*t together she is asked to leave.

 

That is unless the father prioritizes the enabling of this one adult daughter over everyone and everything else, which is apparently what happened.

[testmeasure]

salparadise - I like your well reasoned answer. It makes sense with what information we have.

 

Siding with the father for putting his daughter first, or against the mother for making him choose, with so few details was not satisfactory to me. Siding with the mother for not accepting father's daughter's behavior with so few details was not satisfactory to me. Those were the answers I saw offered, and I couldn't come up with an answer with so little information.

 

Your answer in terms of the priorities of the family structure, the hierarchy of the structure, and the role of parenting provide a very satisfactory answer with the information we have.

 

.