Fear I am not progressing well in coping, 2

[Zapbasket]

Out of line? No. But continuing to harm yourself and your own healing by maintaining contact? YES.

 

GC, your thoughts above are chalk full of what you want her to feel and him to know. STOP IT. You can't control any of that, and it does you no good to try to orchestrate/control any of it. It keeps you enmeshed, it keeps you wondering and obsessing ("Did she tell him about our conversation? How did he react? Should I call her to find out?" Etc.)

 

Send her an email. Brief, to the point, stating your need for distance, your desire to reconnect at some point in time, your request that she not contact you in the meantime, but that you will reach out when you are ready.

 

Send. Boom. Done. Keep moving forward on YOUR path. Stop focusing on his/their paths.

 

Got it. I agree--except that at the heart of wanting to meet in person is that I feel strongly that these kinds of communications need to be made in person. I think it's a cowardly move to ask for distance where, let's face it in this case, it's possible there WON'T be a reupping of contact (why would I ever want the painful reminder? Until a long time from now when it's completely water under the bridge), over email or a letter, etc.

 

So would it be appropriate to see what her schedule is like and if she can't get together for, say, two more weeks or so, then I go ahead and email her my request and reasons?

[sunshinegirl]

Got it. I agree--except that at the heart of wanting to meet in person is that I feel strongly that these kinds of communications need to be made in person. I think it's a cowardly move to ask for distance where, let's face it in this case, it's possible there WON'T be a reupping of contact (why would I ever want the painful reminder? Until a long time from now when it's completely water under the bridge), over email or a letter, etc.

 

So would it be appropriate to see what her schedule is like and if she can't get together for, say, two more weeks or so, then I go ahead and email her my request and reasons?

 

My honest-to-goodness view is that you are martyring yourself and making your life more difficult than you need to. This isn't about "cowardice," it's about self-protection. If she can't respect your need for distance, and your need to communicate it by email, then she's got boundary issues as well. (Which perhaps is stating the obvious given her intrusions into your relationship.)

 

I think you're making excuses that sound good, even selfless, for having more contact with her.

 

I say, stop feeding the beast.

[BC1980]

I don't think you OWE her a face to face meeting. I think you want to meet her out of some sense of obligation and, as you stated, to possibly evoke a reaction in your ex. Both of those reasons are terrible reasons to meet in person. The truth is that most people will understand your need for space and respect it. The majority of people get that you need some time away to process things.

 

I think you might also be struggling with letting the relationship with his mom go indefinitely. You are correct that you may never speak to her again after a period of NC, and the relationship will never be the same no matter what. It's okay to grieve those losses because they are losses. I felt the same way about my ex's family. I was close to his sister and brother-in-law, his son, and his parents. I know that the probability of me seeing any of them again is slim, and, no matter what, the relationship isn't the same. I was actually pretty close with my ex's former mother-in-law if you can believe that. Remember, his first wife died, but he was still close with is former mother-in-law and her son and his wife.

 

It's just really unfortunate that the family is collateral damage, but you ultimately have to practice self-preservation at this point.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for your thoughts, BC1980 and SSG. I know you are right. At this point I don't even think there's need of saying anything to his mom, because the fact of the silence between K and me, prolonged for this many months, is almost like a chemical agent, subtly changing the relationship between his mom and me. Perhaps the time to have explicitly said something was months ago, when I think she and I both anticipated that K and I would talk.

 

I'm feeling such sadness lately that it has been less than a year and already it's beginning to feel like K is a stranger to me. I do have a lot of good memories of being part of his world, and it seems so senseless and heartbreaking that we're not a part of each other's lives at all, when just a year ago the tapestry was K and GC interwoven.

 

I know others of you can very much relate to this.

 

I think what's also hard is that given the niggling feeling I had throughout this relationship and my frustration at his inertia (the root of which I could never intuit, which also was a source of frustration) and his self- and relationship-sabotaging behaviors, COUPLED with a sense I should end it that I could never manage to act upon, made me think that if it ended, when it ended I'd feel mostly relief and a sense of having done the right thing. I did not at all anticipate the swirl of hurt, confusion, pain, etc. that was the actual result. Seriously this has caused me more anguish than almost anything I've ever in my life experienced, and it continues to do so, and it feels the more so because I cannot fully understand why.

 

My best friend believes his behavior this past year is an attempt on his part to hit the proverbial reset button. He knows he messed up but doesn't want to deal with it, she believes, and so he has utterly shunned me in an effort to forget about the whole thing and pretend it just never happened and that he was not the person who behaved badly. I admit I do feel "erased," and that's the source of some of the pain, for sure. The rest, I still don't know.

[BC1980]

I went through a period where I was so scared of him becoming a stranger to me. In fact, much of my reluctance to left go was fear of losing the memories. It's hard to explain, but I remember telling my mom that I was so scared to let him become a stranger to me because that meant it really was over. The truth was a little different in that it had been over for quite some time. She also asked me how it helped me to keep holding into my memories as if they were in real time. I wasn't thinking of my recovery.

 

I still get a little tinge of sadness when I think of the memories, but I know I'm in a better place. I felt sad about the World Cup because his son played soccer. We all would have watched together, and I wondered why even make these memories to begin with. It seems pointless. The only thing I know is that we just have to accept that this is how it ended, and there could be something better out there.

[Zapbasket]

I went through a period where I was so scared of him becoming a stranger to me. In fact, much of my reluctance to left go was fear of losing the memories. It's hard to explain, but I remember telling my mom that I was so scared to let him become a stranger to me because that meant it really was over. The truth was a little different in that it had been over for quite some time. She also asked me how it helped me to keep holding into my memories as if they were in real time. I wasn't thinking of my recovery.

 

I still get a little tinge of sadness when I think of the memories, but I know I'm in a better place. I felt sad about the World Cup because his son played soccer. We all would have watched together, and I wondered why even make these memories to begin with. It seems pointless. The only thing I know is that we just have to accept that this is how it ended, and there could be something better out there.

 

YES to the bolded especially. It's awfully hard to savor and hold on to the good as part of YOUR good life, when things ended so unpleasantly and, for you and me, so surprisingly. It's like they rob you of a piece of your past: one of the things I enjoy most about my longstanding relationships (friendships, family) are the old memories we share. I love reminiscing with people; it fills me with a sense of meaning, joy and purpose. To feel like K. thinks of shared memories with bitterness or indifference just makes me feel

[Zapbasket]

I can feel myself in the process of letting go of my ex, but it's not straightforward at all and I suppose it should not be. One moment it's a clear step forward; another moment it's like a part of me fights that step forward. But I do notice clear changes and I think there is progress.

 

Still, as I try to get comfortable with the reality of the situation, some new insecurities popped up. For instance, my experience with my ex was one of intractable inertia on his part. Not just in terms of us and our relationship, but in terms of his own life: he continually sabotaged himself and his dreams, as much as he sabotaged our relationship with a generally bad attitude, irritability, negativity, etc. It came to the point where I had no sense of what his dreams even WERE--one minute he wanted to be a doc film maker in Latin America, another he wanted to manage his family's ranch, another he wanted to go into scientific communications--all wonderful dreams, but he made NO move to realize even a small part of any of these dreams. He worked construction and claimed to absolutely hate it as "beneath" him, yet at the flip of a coin he'd be saying maybe he liked it, after all, because it gave him the freedom to do other things he wanted to do (like be in the outdoors--and even that aim he really didn't make too much headway on).

 

So I came to view him as stuck and I did try to help and support him, but he was inert even in wanting to get help for himself and so I became stuck and frustrated in a relationship that was going nowhere.

 

At no time did I think he was acting as he was because he just didn't want to be with me.

 

And now, almost a year later, during which time he has not contacted me or even seemed to have thought about me, and while he is on a dating site where I found him almost 2 months ago, this gnawing insecurity is growing in me:

 

Maybe I mis-perceived the whole thing. Maybe the truth all along was that he knew I wasn't the one for him, but didn't want to do anything about it, and so I experienced this utter inertia, believing it had to do with HIM and not at all with how he really felt about me. There were times during the relationship when his behavior made me insecure that deep down he didn't want to be with me and see a future for us, but when I'd ask him whether that were the case, he'd staunchly deny it. He denied it right up until the end, when in utter desperate frustration I got in his face and demanded to know, "So what is it, then? Are we just going our separate ways?" To which he replied, "I think so"--and then said he felt always two steps behind me and felt he always would be, which, again, I attributed to his being insecure about HIMSELF, not to how he felt about me.

 

It's just that the way he acted, especially in the relationship's last six months, he seemed like such a nincompoop, just so stuck and unwilling to do a thing about it...and now, from afar, he seems just fine. It's not like he's in therapy or taking a break from dating to get his sh*t together. So deep down, perhaps he didn't have a problem with where he was in his life? When a guy (or person) acts like this, is it really just that they don't want to be with you, but don't want to do anything about it?

[BC1980]

I've started thinking the same things about my ex. Honestly, he put on a good show, so it didn't make sense to me that he left me. I can't tell you how many people said they were shocked because he seemed so happy with me. He seemed really happy the majority of the time, so why did he have those moments of pulling back and clearly being resistant to marriage? Because there were clear signs he was not going to commit fully. The signs were there, so I wonder if I read his seeming happiness the wrong way. Did I see what I wanted to see?

 

I've had a hard time coming to the harsh realizations of what the relationship was, but I truly feel he is a conflicted, unhealthy individual. He won't change. I obviously have my own issues for staying with him, so I've tried to focus on that. Sometimes, I think my ex knew all along he didn't want to marry me. Why he initiated getting married is something I do not, for the life of me, understand.

[Zapbasket]

I'm glad someone can relate, BC1980. In the last year we were together, it seemed K was falling apart. He said he felt "pressured" by me but by then I'd reached a point where yes, I thought it was more than fair that he start communicating about his intentions and visions for the future, even if just to communicate that indeed he WAS depressed, he recognized his issue as such, and what he planned to do to address it. I never pressured him for a ring or even to talk about marriage--just to talk about what he wanted for the future.

 

But he seemed not only depressed, but utterly lost in his life. He went to the doctor for a check-up last spring and ended up in tears in the doc's office, saying he felt so depressed with where his life and career had headed. He kept saying that career-wise, he felt "obsolete." We went on a camping trip in late summer 2012 and some women our age were hanging out at the trailhead and they invited us to join them for beers, and when they asked him what he did for a living, he turned ghost-white, his lips went dry, he hung his head and said, "Construction." He looked so sad my heart ached for him.

 

Last summer, when my mother visited, she asked him point-blank what had happened given he'd asked her for permission to ask me to marry him back in January 2013, and here it was, August, and nothing. He went into this whole thing about how he was so "lost and confused" and "couldn't take any responsibility right now" but assured my mother that indeed he "loved GC."

 

I think all this year of NC, there was a part of me that hoped / expected to hear that he had utterly fallen apart. That seemed to be where he was headed, but instead he quit therapy last fall and if he hasn't exactly made major, observable strides in his life (still lives in parents' garage apartment; still works hourly construction), he otherwise seems to be doing just fine. He must THINK he is doing just fine if he is searching for dates / a lay / a gf on a dating site; he must THINK he has something to offer even if what truly is on offer is the same confused morass I received.

 

And that's where I feel really insecure all of a sudden--or it was an insecurity that was always there but as this kaleidoscope of moving forward / letting go keeps shifting, it has come to the forefront. It seems there are two possibilities: either he really WAS falling apart and still is, beneath a boatload of denial...or he just passive-aggressively conjured up all that "so lost and confused" caca to keep from having to commit to me...because he KNEW he didn't want to be with me. I mean, is that really possible? If so, I feel even more lied to and this relationship was yet more of a sham. I want to get a better sense of the truth of this so I can test it against my perceptions, now, and before. So that, yes, I can understand better where my issues got me into this mess.

 

I also feel as you do, BC1980, that K, as well as your ex, are "conflicted, unhealthy individuals." Because to go to such lengths to keep someone in the dark about your true feelings and intentions is just really, really disturbing.

[Zapbasket]

I realize the best way to deal with this is to ensure I NEVER hang on to someone who cannot be clear what he wants regarding me and us after a reasonable period of time. To promise that to myself, and then shrug it all off as a lesson learned.

 

But I can't help it: I feel like I've just fallen into a tar pit of hurt, to think that all along, while I flailed around being VERY CLEAR that I wanted some clarity from HIM and that his lack of clarity or direction was HURTING ME, he sat there KNOWING that he just didn't want me, didn't plan to make a future with me, maybe even didn't love me and MAYBE knew deep down EXACTLY what he wants out of his life and career. I mean, doesn't his lack of reaching out to me AT ALL this year, even to his family's surprise, indicate this?

 

I really hate the way I'm feeling right now; just so hurtful to think that all along he knew exactly what was up.

 

I just don't know what to make of any of this

[BC1980]

Ths thing that always struck me so odd about my ex is that he was the one who initiated commitment and then marriage. It was almost if he felt that was what h was supposed to do because we had been together for X number of years. I don't know because it was just so bizarre. He would come on really strong, which just confused me. I just had to stop even thinking about it because I couldn't move on.

 

It's pretty difficult though because you start wondering what was real and what was fake. I think it hurts worse because you are trying to come to terms with a different reality than the one you believed in.

[Zapbasket]

I think you're right, BC1980. Have you read Baggage Reclaim's (blog) about "Future Fakers"? I imagine you have; it sounds like your ex fits that bill to a T.

 

My ex never said, "Let's get married," or, "Soon I want us to be married," but he also always said he did want to be with me, did see a future with me, etc. Yet he resisted any time I brought up the future, whether or not my mention of the future specifically stated "marriage" or "engagement" or not. I really just wanted a sense of where he saw himself heading, and where he saw us heading as a result of that. That's why I could never understand all the resistance.

 

I really feel lied to. And it really does a number on your self-confidence, not to know what was real, and what was not...or even whether ANY of it was real.

[BC1980]

I think you're right, BC1980. Have you read Baggage Reclaim's (blog) about "Future Fakers"? I imagine you have; it sounds like your ex fits that bill to a T.

 

My ex never said, "Let's get married," or, "Soon I want us to be married," but he also always said he did want to be with me, did see a future with me, etc. Yet he resisted any time I brought up the future, whether or not my mention of the future specifically stated "marriage" or "engagement" or not. I really just wanted a sense of where he saw himself heading, and where he saw us heading as a result of that. That's why I could never understand all the resistance.

 

I really feel lied to. And it really does a number on your self-confidence, not to know what was real, and what was not...or even whether ANY of it was real.

 

Oh yeah, my ex would constantly say he couldn't wait until we were married, how I was such a good mom to his son and would adopt him, talk about where we should get married, everything was about WHEN we got married. He would do stuff like buy me a certain type if cake on my birthday and say we should have that as our wedding cake, ask me if I would get my name changed, just so much stuff. It's so cruel, and it messed with my mind. It goes beyond mean to cruelty I believe. It speaks to him being a messed up person because no sane person would do that. Who actually initiates buying an engagement ring, takes me to pick it out, acts very excited, then claims "confusion" 2 months later? At some point, I felt like I was in a movie. No sane person would act that way and then take little responsibility.

 

I have read about future fakers, and that's exactly what he is. That blog helped me understand a lot too and helped me see that other people have gone through this too.

[sunshinegirl]

It's just that the way he acted, especially in the relationship's last six months, he seemed like such a nincompoop, just so stuck and unwilling to do a thing about it...and now, from afar, he seems just fine. It's not like he's in therapy or taking a break from dating to get his sh*t together. So deep down, perhaps he didn't have a problem with where he was in his life? When a guy (or person) acts like this, is it really just that they don't want to be with you, but don't want to do anything about it?

 

I think you give him too much credit here. My read would be: he was an unfocused person without clear goals when you met. He tried to figure things out, to please you, during the relationship, but being a fundamentally confused person (or a person lacking ambition, or commitment, or a work-ethic, whatever it was) this went virtually nowhere. Now, he is no longer in a relationship where he feels pressure to figure anything out, so he can resume coasting. Sure, he may look happy, and indeed he *could* be happy, but it's not because he's figured anything out... it's instead that he is no longer in a situation where someone expects him to figure things out.

 

Occam's razor applies here, GC; the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Plus, to be honest, he doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer and doesn't sound capable of hatching some elaborate plot to deceive you.

[elseaacych]

I think you give him too much credit here. My read would be: he was an unfocused person without clear goals when you met. He tried to figure things out, to please you, during the relationship, but being a fundamentally confused person (or a person lacking ambition, or commitment, or a work-ethic, whatever it was) this went virtually nowhere. Now, he is no longer in a relationship where he feels pressure to figure anything out, so he can resume coasting. Sure, he may look happy, and indeed he *could* be happy, but it's not because he's figured anything out... it's instead that he is no longer in a situation where someone expects him to figure things out.

 

Occam's razor applies here, GC; the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Plus, to be honest, he doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer and doesn't sound capable of hatching some elaborate plot to deceive you.

 

THIS. ABSOLUTELY. 100%.

 

When you do not have a clear goal for the future, any and all pressures must be eliminated, to make it "easier" to bear the reality. My ex was EXACTLY like yours. (And diagnosed bipolar, to boot.) The second the future started getting very real to him, he wanted out. But he did love me, for a time.

 

I promise you, GC, your ex is likely no better off without you. Even if he's staying completely quiet. What ever he's doing now, he probably thinks that by getting in contact with you, it will make his life difficult.

 

All he wants is an easy life, but, tell me this: did he generally have a sh-tty attitude and no goals? Both are necessary to live a good life, and both a good attitude and goals are sometimes hard to develop, when you're set in your ways.

 

What I would add, is that you probably did a whole lot for the relationship, and by you loving for the both of you, he could put in the minimal effort and get the maximum reward. It was probably very convenient for him to love you, so he did, but the moment it stopped being convenient (and a little while longer after that), because he's confused and wants as soft of a landing as possible (his actions hurt him too, after all), he drags it out a bit and exits at the best possible moment.

 

In the end it comes down to him wanting to live "happy", which to us means "easily". So, he sees a problem, he flees. You are just the unfortunate collateral damage.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, guys, for your input. I think you all are right: about him being unfocused generally and preferring to coast along, and therefore probably "happy" right now because no one is pressuring him, implicitly or explicitly, by "expecting" from him. I can imagine that indeed he hasn't likely figured out a damned thing.

 

But even so, I have SUCH a hard time accepting and coping with the fact that he seems to intend to have nothing further to do with me...EVER. I can't understand why or how it can NOT weigh on him that he told my 77-year-old, very strong and high-standard-holding mother that while he "loved" me he "couldn't take any responsibility" right now due to his being so "lost and confused, like a spinning compass." And then, after my mother told me what he said, and I confronted him on it, he said contemptuously, "Oh, so you had a mother-daughter pow-wow and misinterpreted everything I said?" I mean, isn't that whole scenario a real low point for a man, to sit there with his gf's mother and basically just quit? And isn't it a low point for him to admit, "I feel I'm always two steps behind you, and I'm always going to be"? I cannot understand how he wouldn't want to right that memory FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT, by getting in touch with me to sincerely apologize. As my best friend says, if he really felt compunction for how he treated me, he'd have gotten in touch with me.

 

Instead, he is on his dating site, and I accidently found out he is talking to this girl who lives nearby. Now get this, the sick irony: I met this girl last September, at a meeting, open to anyone, for anyone in the community struggling with communication / relationship issues. This girl and I went because we both had just broken up with our boyfriends. We instantly commiserated, and had a long conversation in the parking lot after the meeting. We exchanged numbers but never got together as intended, probably because both of us were busy dealing with our grief and trying to move forward, etc.

 

How perverse of fate, then, to have THIS GIRL be the one with whom my ex has connected. I'm sure as soon as they end up talking about their previous relationships and he mentions my name, it will jog her memory and hopefully make her uncomfortable given I had told her some of what had happened between us. But even so, they have tons in common activity-wise and she is a cool, intelligent, attractive woman so I'm sure my ex will be very drawn to her. Hopefully she has a better head on her shoulders than I did and will see through his crap sooner than I did.

 

But it seems like he just keeps winning, and winning, and I keep having a hard time. Every weekend I go off on hiking expeditions to 14,000ft peaks throughout the state where I live, in an effort to move forward by pursuing my passions. But the hurt and confusion remain. It seems so unfair that he could find this girl, this cool girl I met while on my journey to try to be proactive about healing and moving forward.

 

It seems so unfair, and hurts so much. When will he ever have to face the way he treated me???????

[sunshinegirl]

Thanks, guys, for your input. I think you all are right: about him being unfocused generally and preferring to coast along, and therefore probably "happy" right now because no one is pressuring him, implicitly or explicitly, by "expecting" from him. I can imagine that indeed he hasn't likely figured out a damned thing.

 

But even so, I have SUCH a hard time accepting and coping with the fact that he seems to intend to have nothing further to do with me...EVER. I can't understand why or how it can NOT weigh on him that he told my 77-year-old, very strong and high-standard-holding mother that while he "loved" me he "couldn't take any responsibility" right now due to his being so "lost and confused, like a spinning compass." And then, after my mother told me what he said, and I confronted him on it, he said contemptuously, "Oh, so you had a mother-daughter pow-wow and misinterpreted everything I said?" I mean, isn't that whole scenario a real low point for a man, to sit there with his gf's mother and basically just quit? And isn't it a low point for him to admit, "I feel I'm always two steps behind you, and I'm always going to be"? I cannot understand how he wouldn't want to right that memory FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT, by getting in touch with me to sincerely apologize. As my best friend says, if he really felt compunction for how he treated me, he'd have gotten in touch with me.

 

Be careful here - about the bolded part. This is you assuming that he shares your values and beliefs. Your confusion stems, in part, from this huge assumption you are making that he thinks about things the same way you do. I don't care how close you once were, how much you think you were simpatico. His behavior shows you that he doesn't think the way you do.

 

Instead, he is on his dating site, and I accidently found out he is talking to this girl who lives nearby. Now get this, the sick irony: I met this girl last September, at a meeting, open to anyone, for anyone in the community struggling with communication / relationship issues. This girl and I went because we both had just broken up with our boyfriends. We instantly commiserated, and had a long conversation in the parking lot after the meeting. We exchanged numbers but never got together as intended, probably because both of us were busy dealing with our grief and trying to move forward, etc.

 

How perverse of fate, then, to have THIS GIRL be the one with whom my ex has connected. I'm sure as soon as they end up talking about their previous relationships and he mentions my name, it will jog her memory and hopefully make her uncomfortable given I had told her some of what had happened between us. But even so, they have tons in common activity-wise and she is a cool, intelligent, attractive woman so I'm sure my ex will be very drawn to her. Hopefully she has a better head on her shoulders than I did and will see through his crap sooner than I did.

 

In a not-quite-as-egregious-but-similar way, my 2004 ex wound up marrying a woman that I was in a church small group with... that no one liked. I couldn't get my head around it for awhile, until I reminded myself that that ex clearly valued/wanted something very different than what I could provide him. I still don't know what the appeal was - she was very sour toward other women and seemed like a giant stick in the mud. I think they have a couple of kids now; I assume he/they are happy. <shrug>

 

But it seems like he just keeps winning, and winning, and I keep having a hard time. Every weekend I go off on hiking expeditions to 14,000ft peaks throughout the state where I live, in an effort to move forward by pursuing my passions. But the hurt and confusion remain. It seems so unfair that he could find this girl, this cool girl I met while on my journey to try to be proactive about healing and moving forward.

 

It seems so unfair, and hurts so much. When will he ever have to face the way he treated me???????

 

For one thing, stop measuring your insides against his outsides. For another, even if they get together, she'll encounter the same crap you did. And she'll either run, or put up with it and live in misery the way you did. Believe me, neither she nor anybody else is going to get the fairy tale ending that you were "cheated" out of. He hasn't changed. Keep reminding yourself of that.

 

Lastly, it is entirely possible he won't ever have to face the way he treated you. (What would that even mean, anyway?) To my knowledge, none of the three exes that hurt me deeply has ever had to "face" the way they treated me. (I've never gotten an apology from any of them, anyway.) And while yes, short term I wanted the long arm of justice to reach out and throttle each of them, time healed those wounds and now I am indifferent. I don't wish any of them harm or evil or hardship - my focus is on my life and my happiness. Their happiness or lack thereof is irrelevant to mine. Keep slogging through - you will get there eventually.

[BC1980]

You can't measure your success in life against his or anyone else's for that matter, though it does seem unfair. I know the human reaction is to want to see an ex come to ruin, and I'm certainly not in a place to wish my ex happiness. I just try not to think of him at all, so it takes his relevancy away from my life. The bottom line is that we don't know if they see haptic or not or what struggles they face.

 

I'm sure my ex feels very little guilt over what happened even though I see him as guilty of some pretty messed up stuff. The truth is that people, all of us, go to great lengths to rewrite the truth that we can live with. It's much easier that way because it requires little in depth thought about evolving or taking responsibility. In the end, we are all having our own experience, and I can't force my version of events on my ex. I can't force him to take responsibility or feel bad even if I think he should. It was freeing when I finally accepted that fact.

[Zapbasket]

Be careful here - about the bolded part. This is you assuming that he shares your values and beliefs. Your confusion stems, in part, from this huge assumption you are making that he thinks about things the same way you do. I don't care how close you once were, how much you think you were simpatico. His behavior shows you that he doesn't think the way you do.

 

Yes. This is the truth. He SPOKE values, when we were a couple, that were simpatico with mine, but he ACTED completely different values, a.k.a. "low standards." Like everything else with him and with this relationship, it was very confusing. I sometimes feel very small and sad inside when I think that perhaps he was just acting with me, telling me what I wanted to hear rather than truly SHARING his values in a way that we could learn and grow together. It all goes back to what I said to him near the relationship's very beginning, the truth of which I didn't begin to fully comprehend at the time: "It's like you're here, but you're not really here." Yeah. Like that. Too much so.

 

In a not-quite-as-egregious-but-similar way, my 2004 ex wound up marrying a woman that I was in a church small group with... that no one liked. I couldn't get my head around it for awhile, until I reminded myself that that ex clearly valued/wanted something very different than what I could provide him. I still don't know what the appeal was - she was very sour toward other women and seemed like a giant stick in the mud. I think they have a couple of kids now; I assume he/they are happy. <shrug>

 

Maybe he didn't know how to relate to / interact with a truly NICE person, and this woman had some appeal because her sourness was familiar?

 

For one thing, stop measuring your insides against his outsides. For another, even if they get together, she'll encounter the same crap you did. And she'll either run, or put up with it and live in misery the way you did. Believe me, neither she nor anybody else is going to get the fairy tale ending that you were "cheated" out of. He hasn't changed. Keep reminding yourself of that.

 

THANK YOU. I keep having such trouble with this idea, and I don't know why. The fear I can't shake fully is that he'll be a kinder, more available, more connected, self-directed and generally more pleasant partner for another woman, and it was only with me that he was the way he was. That I brought out something negative in him that only MY proclivities and personality traits brought out. Intellectually this does not hold water for me, but emotionally I still struggle with it. Maybe because I feel so, so, so cheated?

 

Lastly, it is entirely possible he won't ever have to face the way he treated you. (What would that even mean, anyway?)

 

I guess I just want to know that the way he treated me has had / is having / will continue to have an adverse affect on him until he comes face to face with it--whether through personal therapy, or reaching out to me, or introspection (which would still require therapy), or lightning clap of epiphany, or ??? I can't relate to just treating people however the heck you want and being able to go on your merry way. It's really just...incomprehensible to me. And in that incomprehension is the pain and confusion that surges up in the midst of all my good progress.

[BC1980]

I guess I just want to know that the way he treated me has had / is having / will continue to have an adverse affect on him until he comes face to face with it--whether through personal therapy, or reaching out to me, or introspection (which would still require therapy), or lightning clap of epiphany, or ??? I can't relate to just treating people however the heck you want and being able to go on your merry way. It's really just...incomprehensible to me. And in that incomprehension is the pain and confusion that surges up in the midst of all my good progress.

 

It's incomprehensible to me as well, which tells me that my values are quite different than my ex's. Sometimes, he would say things that were just cruel about his own family or people that he didn't feel were are as morally righteous as him. He had weird double standards like thinking someone who left in a divorce was awful, but he said he would leave his spouse if she had Multiple Sclerosis or Alzheimer's. He thought those reasons were valid because they would have rendered the spouse a burden to him.

 

My view has always been that you love a person for who are they are, and I would not leave someone for an illness. If he had been sick, I would have taken care of him. However, I knew that he would never do the same for me. At one point in the relationship, he was having problems that suggested a remote possibility of a brain tumor. He got an MRI, but he ended up being fine. He confided in me that he was worried I would leave him if he had a brain tumor, and I was shocked he would think that. Of course, I wouldn't have left him, but it let me know that his values were just so different than mine. His thought process was completely out in left field compared to mine. We were just two different people.

 

Those are really specific examples, but I do think they speak to the larger idea that some people hold different ideas of what love is. At the core, I think that is why we didn't make it and likely never could. When I love, I love the person for who he is, and I could always feel the disdain from my ex that I wasn't exactly what he wanted. I just wasn't quite good enough, and I think he warred with himself because he did love me in his way. He was baffled that he could love me, a person who was not a perfect match for him on paper. Ultimately though, who he is won. Most people just can't change who they are because it's so ingrained from childhood. It takes an awful lot of work and introspection that isn't particularly fun. Better for him to leave and feel he has no guilt.

Edited July 9, 2014 by BC1980

[Zapbasket]

Oh my God, I am having such a hard time. I know you are right, BC1980, that it doesn't serve to compare my progress or success against his (or anyone else's), but it's so hard not to when it just feels like I'm in the La Brea Tar Pits where no matter what I do or how hard I try, nothing seems to be working out for me.

 

Last weekend I climbed a peak not too far from here, as part of a kick lately of going off on weekend mini-adventures to enjoy challenging hikes and beautiful views. I have been doing this to get myself out of town away from the nearness of my ex, K, and all the associated feelings. Also to connect with my passions and help clear my mind to create a vision of my short- and long-term future.

 

I knew that K's younger brother was being sponsored to climb all such peaks in my state this summer. I did NOT know that the very peak I climbed last weekend was the one that K and his dad climbed with his brother the weekend before. I discovered that when I checked out K's brother's blog, not to "spy" on K, but out of interest because what he's doing IS pretty cool.

 

Instantly I felt this big: . Because I posted on Facebook pictures of my hike. And I'm afraid all it looks like to K is that I'm "following" or "copying" him or his brother. He may think that his mother told me he was joining his brother at this peak (she didn't; I haven't spoken with her in a while).

 

But regardless of what he thinks or if he even noticed my photos, within myself I feel like nothing I do gets me away from this situation. Nothing I do feels "original" or "impressive" or "mine." I mean, how suckily coincidental is it that K is talking with this girl I met at a church coping / communication meeting back in September, who also had just broken up with her boyfriend?

 

I just feel really snowed under. And I keep asking myself why, when it absolutely should have been ME walking away from this relationship, years ago, because I had communicated very clearly my issues with the relationship and my needs and had tried to do my part to assist in bettering the relationship and still K showed no sign of improvement or even a genuine desire to improve. I mean, if I can see that so clearly, then why, why, why am I still holding on????

 

I know a big part of it is the confusion engendered by his family's total embracing of me. They really loved me; it was very clear. And I thought that even though yes, K and I were having problems, his family would not have been so embracing of me if they were not confident that K had the kind of feelings for me that would merit such investment on their parts. They wanted me included in EVERYTHING. His mom (and K) would say how lucky they all were to have me in their lives; she said several times, "You came into our lives for a reason." While in the relationship, whenever I had doubts about the level of K's commitment, I would use this line of thinking to reassure myself: if they thought K wasn't committed, they'd pull back.

 

So yeah, I feel really thrown for a loop by his utter disinvestment from the relationship. I wonder whether I am the only one who feels duped. (His mother seemed to think surely we'd end up talking...until recently when everything seemed to shift, for both of us; I think we both saw the writing on the wall.)

 

It's really hard for me not to feel really confused. It's like a giant thumb that hovers over me no matter what I try to do to extricate myself from its shadow. I'm thinking of booking out of here this weekend to a national park two states over just to ensure I'm truly away from any association or affiliation with K and his family and my local attempts to overcome the hurt which now seem only to have resulted in me "knowing" K's next girlfriend before he did.

[sunshinegirl]

I did NOT know that the very peak I climbed last weekend was the one that K and his dad climbed with his brother the weekend before. I discovered that when I checked out K's brother's blog, not to "spy" on K, but out of interest because what he's doing IS pretty cool.

 

Instantly I felt this big: . Because I posted on Facebook pictures of my hike. And I'm afraid all it looks like to K is that I'm "following" or "copying" him or his brother. He may think that his mother told me he was joining his brother at this peak (she didn't; I haven't spoken with her in a while).

 

Sweet GC, I hope that you recognize that you brought this new wave of grief upon yourself, by making the choice to check his brother's blog.

 

It is entirely, 100% predictable, that such contact would deliver a blow: look at yourself, you are ruminating and dwelling and letting yourself get hooked into wondering what K is thinking about you, and doing with his time, and all the rest. All because you checked a website of his family member. Yes, you live in a small town and you can't perfectly avoid all interactions with him or his family, but you are self-sabotaging by deliberately seeking information about anyone in his immediate orbit.

 

Big hugs - you will get through this wave. Please just remember that contact is like drug addiction: it feels good in the moment (to know what the brother's doing or whatever) but the high lasts only momentarily and then there's a terrible crash afterwards.

Edited July 9, 2014 by sunshinegirl

[BC1980]

But regardless of what he thinks or if he even noticed my photos, within myself I feel like nothing I do gets me away from this situation. Nothing I do feels "original" or "impressive" or "mine." I mean, how suckily coincidental is it that K is talking with this girl I met at a church coping / communication meeting back in September, who also had just broken up with her boyfriend?

 

I just feel really snowed under. And I keep asking myself why, when it absolutely should have been ME walking away from this relationship, years ago, because I had communicated very clearly my issues with the relationship and my needs and had tried to do my part to assist in bettering the relationship and still K showed no sign of improvement or even a genuine desire to improve. I mean, if I can see that so clearly, then why, why, why am I still holding on????

 

I know a big part of it is the confusion engendered by his family's total embracing of me. They really loved me; it was very clear. And I thought that even though yes, K and I were having problems, his family would not have been so embracing of me if they were not confident that K had the kind of feelings for me that would merit such investment on their parts. They wanted me included in EVERYTHING. His mom (and K) would say how lucky they all were to have me in their lives; she said several times, "You came into our lives for a reason." While in the relationship, whenever I had doubts about the level of K's commitment, I would use this line of thinking to reassure myself: if they thought K wasn't committed, they'd pull back.

 

So yeah, I feel really thrown for a loop by his utter disinvestment from the relationship. I wonder whether I am the only one who feels duped. (His mother seemed to think surely we'd end up talking...until recently when everything seemed to shift, for both of us; I think we both saw the writing on the wall.)

 

It's really hard for me not to feel really confused. It's like a giant thumb that hovers over me no matter what I try to do to extricate myself from its shadow. I'm thinking of booking out of here this weekend to a national park two states over just to ensure I'm truly away from any association or affiliation with K and his family and my local attempts to overcome the hurt which now seem only to have resulted in me "knowing" K's next girlfriend before he did.

 

It really does seem like, when it rains, it pours. I did feel like that after my breakup. I felt like my ex walked away with everything, and I was left with nothing. I had to go back and live with my parents because we were living in his house. That was humbling to the ninth degree. Like you, I was close to his family, and I lost them too. I lost his son who had played a very big role in my life. I felt so low, and, like you, I felt that I should have been the one to walk away. It was almost insulting that he dumped me.

 

I think it's worse when you feel like the one who dumped you isn't that great of a prize. That's hard to take in because, on some level, you know you deserve better, and you shame yourself for not being able to get over it sooner. It's a crazy process, just know that you are going to be okay.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, SSG and BC1980. You both are so right, in everything you say.

 

Oh my God, I am having such a hard time for some reason. Last night, I just out and wept for a good 30 to 45 minutes, with my head on the steering wheel of my parked car.

 

I know I shouldn't have been looking, but yesterday he took himself off the dating site I found him on--something I thought I'd be glad to discover as I know he has not found anyone. You'd think that would make me feel GOOD...and on the one hand, it makes me feel good to think that perhaps no one wanted him (), but it also makes me feel BAD because it means he actually went into the dating process with a STANDARD in mind...and he didn't find anyone who met his standards. And I feel like, how dare he have standards, when he holds himself so such low ones in relationships and in his goals? HOW DARE HE, when he had a woman whom everyone says (to her face, at least) is such a catch, and he threw that woman--me--away without a care?

 

Yesterday, driving home from work, I saw him in his truck. Now, I've passed him numerous times on the highway (two lanes), but this time I was stopped to turn left, and he had just come out of a light, so he was going very slowly as he passed, and his window was down and he was on his phone. I had my sunglasses on and I also was on the phone, and I turned my head just enough to see that he turned to look at me. I was in tears by the time I got home, and I wondered, DID THIS ENCOUNTER AFFECT HIM AT ALL???

 

And I know: who the f cares. He looked so cocky with his elbow resting on the open window and on his phone and I thought, "A**hole." But then I remember all the good times, and the connection I thought we had...and that's the thing: I feel SO CONFUSED as to whether we actually had a connection like it felt we did or whether he just really never was even there, that he was "vacant," as several people described him to me.

 

It kills me to think of him out and enjoying life, and his quitting that dating site has me wondering, too. And I know, yes, I'm putting myself through that spin because I looked when I should have stayed NC, but I'm still in that phase where I want answers, some better resolution than this, and since he AND HIS FAMILY live so very close by, there's a big part of me that feels the communication is unfinished, that the resolution and answers can possibly, at least in part, come from him, from them. Realistic or no, it's where I am in this whole morass.

 

So his quitting the dating site: does that mean he's actually doing something healthy, for once, and working on himself before he tries to get into a relationship? Was he even looking for a relationship in the first place, or just seeing what was out there as part of some horniness-driven curiosity and longing? Is his life actually getting better; if it's getting better, does he ever rethink throwing me out like I was nothing to him? And on.

 

I am at work and Starbucks has helped me appear upbeat, but I feel like crap and like I could just go off by myself somewhere and just cry.

[artsygirl78]

Thanks, SSG and BC1980. You both are so right, in everything you say.

 

Oh my God, I am having such a hard time for some reason. Last night, I just out and wept for a good 30 to 45 minutes, with my head on the steering wheel of my parked car.

 

I know I shouldn't have been looking, but yesterday he took himself off the dating site I found him on--something I thought I'd be glad to discover as I know he has not found anyone. You'd think that would make me feel GOOD...and on the one hand, it makes me feel good to think that perhaps no one wanted him (), but it also makes me feel BAD because it means he actually went into the dating process with a STANDARD in mind...and he didn't find anyone who met his standards. And I feel like, how dare he have standards, when he holds himself so such low ones in relationships and in his goals? HOW DARE HE, when he had a woman whom everyone says (to her face, at least) is such a catch, and he threw that woman--me--away without a care?

 

Yesterday, driving home from work, I saw him in his truck. Now, I've passed him numerous times on the highway (two lanes), but this time I was stopped to turn left, and he had just come out of a light, so he was going very slowly as he passed, and his window was down and he was on his phone. I had my sunglasses on and I also was on the phone, and I turned my head just enough to see that he turned to look at me. I was in tears by the time I got home, and I wondered, DID THIS ENCOUNTER AFFECT HIM AT ALL???

 

And I know: who the f cares. He looked so cocky with his elbow resting on the open window and on his phone and I thought, "A**hole." But then I remember all the good times, and the connection I thought we had...and that's the thing: I feel SO CONFUSED as to whether we actually had a connection like it felt we did or whether he just really never was even there, that he was "vacant," as several people described him to me.

 

It kills me to think of him out and enjoying life, and his quitting that dating site has me wondering, too. And I know, yes, I'm putting myself through that spin because I looked when I should have stayed NC, but I'm still in that phase where I want answers, some better resolution than this, and since he AND HIS FAMILY live so very close by, there's a big part of me that feels the communication is unfinished, that the resolution and answers can possibly, at least in part, come from him, from them. Realistic or no, it's where I am in this whole morass.

 

So his quitting the dating site: does that mean he's actually doing something healthy, for once, and working on himself before he tries to get into a relationship? Was he even looking for a relationship in the first place, or just seeing what was out there as part of some horniness-driven curiosity and longing? Is his life actually getting better; if it's getting better, does he ever rethink throwing me out like I was nothing to him? And on.

 

I am at work and Starbucks has helped me appear upbeat, but I feel like crap and like I could just go off by myself somewhere and just cry.

 

GreenCove, I have read the thread of your posts and I really, really empathize with you. My heart is just breaking for you and I hear where you are at - I went through my BU 6 weeks ago and did a lot of the same perseverating and crying, worrying and obsessing that you have been going through.

 

 

What I see through all of the posts that all of your energy is bleeding out towards focusing on your ex and there is a lot of trying to analyze and get an answer to "why" - and what I am learning is that there IS no answer to the "why" questions. It is a sure way to stay stuck in the pits of despair. I think healing takes its own time, there is no shame in your healing process being longer than anyone else's - and it is none of anyone else's business, including your ex. What has helped me start to REALLY move on after falling into my own pit of despair is really embracing, as tough as it is, that my ex, my history with him, is behind me now, and the only thing that counts is what is good for ME. My healing, my life, my values, my time, what experience I DESERVE to have with a partner.

 

 

Days are off and on, as it will happen with the grieving process. But I am finding space to breathe, spending less and less time obsessing over my ex, punishing myself for what I thought I should have done differently, analyzing the relationship and my ex's motives to death - all ways of punishing myself and holding on to him at the same time. It will keep you stuck. Excuse my language, but screw this guy. There was attraction and a lot of feeling, but he wasn't right for you and couldn't give you what you needed or treat you with the respect you deserve. I put up with my ex's passive-aggressive manipulations for a while, hoping he would want to reconcile and racking my brain as to why he dropped me when I gave him the second chance that he asked for, but it is a question that has no answers. Instead I am shifting my entire focus to ME. I am the center of my life, my relationship with myself and how well I am taking care of myself is the most important. And makes me stronger and able to start moving on. My heart is with you and you are not alone. This guy does not deserve all of the attention and credit you are giving him. You sound like a special, sensitive person and you deserve someone special that can be deserving of your devotion.