Fear I am not progressing well in coping, 2

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

That at work, where I've kept my struggles so much under wraps that no one knows I dated one of D's sons for 3.5 years, someone will casually mention D in the context of the family and not know that they just dropped an info bomb that sends me spinning and wondering and having to pretend it totally doesn't affect me.

 

That K AND his brother will work where I do this winter and I will have to encounter them.

 

That K and I will end up on the ski mountain together, at the lift at the same time, and he'll see me skiing alone (which I often do) while he'll be with some guy friends or on a date.

 

That I'll walk into a restaurant nearby and encounter K and his entire family, including his little nieces who will recognize me, and there will be some new person or something new or different that makes me wonder.

 

That I'll start seeing K out with a girl and it will drive me mad wondering who she is, where they met, how serious it is, whether he treats her the same way he treated me, etc.

 

These scenarios all seem overwhelming because my current state is one that is very lonely and vulnerable. If things started to shift for me and I found some people I really clicked with and just felt less isolated and happier, then these scenarios likely would be more manageable.

 

None of these scenarios have anything to do with social media. If you blocked him and his family, all of these scenarios would end with "...but they're blocked on Facebook, so I can't check up on them." Isn't that what you want?

 

Have you considered the possibility that blocking everyone on social media may actually bring you the freedom and peace you need? It will not offend or upset any members of his family. They will realize you have made a request for distance and they should honor it accordingly. It may even make any potential in-person confrontations easier.

[elseaacych]

^Read the posts above again, because Minneloa and ChimpanA-ChimpanZ is absolutely right. You need to feel a sense of control in your life, and you think it helps you do it. But it doesn't.

 

Once again, with feeling:

 

So, if I am hearing you correctly, FB provides you with a sense of control, and the information you gather makes you feel less vulnerable to unexpected exposure to events/developments in K's life?

 

The problem is that any of these things you list above could happen WITHOUT prior FB notification, not to mention that FB is a notoriously unreliable source of truth information. People mostly use it for self-promotion and -aggrandizement. So, for example, if K. does start dating someone else, FB will be a highly untrustworthy account of their relationship. Moreover, you can't control the most painful basic occurrence, which is that K. and his family have moved on and you are no longer a part of their lives.

 

Bottom line: I worry that these social media ties keep you connected to and invested in K's life, and, more broadly, the past, in a way that is detrimental to you and that keeps you from acknowledging the finality of your breakup. That's why I keep returning to the subject: because of what it represents in terms of your hope and denial.

 

.

 

GC, I can tell you are the type of person who loves control. So, take back some control.

 

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BLOCK YOUR EX, HIS EX, HIS MOM. IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, GET OFF FACEBOOK ENTIRELY.

 

I used to worry that I would get information about my ex, because he currrently resides in the same small town I do, and we spend most of our days within the same four block radius, very frequently in buildings that are within a minute's walking distance of each other. In fact, I have to go over to HIS BUILDING to see MY SHRINK. MY SHRINK IS ON THE SAME FLOOR AS HIS OFFICE. Every effing time I go over there, I am terrified he will see me, or I will see him. We go out to the same places, because there are so few places to go in the same small town.

 

You know what? I have not bumped into him once in NINE MONTHS. I see his pals and friends out and about all the time, but never him. If one of our mutual friends post a picture or something of him on facebook, I unfollow them, so I know they won't knock me off of my cloud.

 

BY BLOCKING HIM, I HAVE REGAINED CONTROL OF THE FLOW OF INFORMATION. WHEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW, I can focus on more important things.

 

This will also apply to you. WHY THE EFF SHOULD YOU WORRY ABOUT SOME EX-GIRLFRIEND WHO IS TRYING TO SCHMOOZE YOUR EX'S MOM IF THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT IT WILL EVER IMPACT YOUR LIFE?

 

You only know of this interaction because of facebook.

 

Your downward spiral happened because of facebook.

 

FACEBOOK IS NOT GIVING YOU ANY CONTROL.

 

YOU WILL TAKE BACK CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE BY TAKING CONTROL OF THE FLOW OF INFORMATION.

 

IF YOU WANT CONTROL.

 

TAKE IT.

Edited August 24, 2014 by elseaacych

[Zapbasket]

Look, I'm just being honest that this is very hard for me. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but I am the one who lives where I do and knows the ins and outs of how this community works and while I see the rightness in what you say, I don't want to act until I understand all the repercussions.

 

Because no, my #1 aim is NOT control; it's trying to find a way to be a part of this small community which is integral to my being happy here and finding harmony even in the broken relationships because there seems to be no wiggle room for anything else.

 

His mom called me first thing this morning and left me a message. Given the tailspin our conversation 4 weeks ago sent me into, I haven't listened to the message yet.

 

So that's an example of the nuance that I am living in that I cannot represent or articulate on here. She may be out of my life as my potential mother-in-law, but she very clearly wants to try to stay in my life to some extent, just as I have wanted to stay in hers. That is ultimately what I want, and if I need to take some time apart then I will do that, but it makes it a little more complicated than just deleting her from everything and telling her I can't talk to her anymore. I MAY end up doing that, but my aim would only be so that I can heal in the present; I want to keep the good feeling between us in hopes of having a relationship again in the future. Or, if I can find a way not to break it.

 

Maybe I'm being too sensitive and I just need to block, delete, etc. I am considering that. It's just not usually my style...though I do realize that my style often has resulted in my getting treated poorly by people and/or more hurt than necessary.

 

It's hard when I love the people and this utter severance was not what I'd ever have advocated as I think it's incompatible with the realities of the community in which we live.

 

I fear you will all say I'm deluding myself and being an idiot, but I have to just be honest with where I am. I AM listening to you.

[Minneloa]

Ok, so what about temporarily deactivating FB to protect yourself from painful triggers until you feel stronger? Is there a downside to that?

[BC1980]

GC, you could also simply tell K's mom that you need to step away from social media for awhile, however long it takes. I think that most people would understand that need, the need to stay away for some time. You are dealing with all of this without a good support network, and I am so sorry for that. It is unfair that you have no family to lean on. Is it possible that you want to stay friends with K's mom so badly because it gives you a sense of family?

 

I know you don't feel ready, but you might never feel ready. You weren't ready to breakup, and you would still be with K to this day if he hadn't broken up with you. You would still be in a relationship that was going nowhere. It's not always about feeling ready but knowing that it's simply in your best interest. You said it best. What you have been doing hasn't worked for years, so maybe it's time to start doing things a different way and making some tough decisions that will feel uncomfortable at first.

[54JA]

Well, it has been one full year and the approach to the anniversary as well as the aftermath has really affected me. I feel really weird, and at a loss. "Where do I go from here?" I keep asking myself. This whole past year everything I managed to accomplish was accomplished in a fog, where sadness prevailed, but I had direction in that everything was aimed to stabilize my situation--I moved from seasonal work to a full-time, year-round position (they had proven very, very difficult to come by where I live), I met some new people though none really proved to make it to the status of new FRIENDS, and I had several enjoyable trips and outdoor adventures. I had signed up for some courses back in January, but just felt too overwhelmed to muster the concentration and make the time for an entire semester, and so I dropped them.

 

Congratulations on reaching your one year mark!! I see that this past year has been incredibly hard for you. I can see that your life circumstances/environmental circumstances add to your difficulty as you have less access to activities and opportunities afforded if you were living a larger city. You have survived with what you were given, and that says a lot. Your slower-than-typical pace of recovery is totally understandable given your circumstances; with the limited available support, opportunities, and distractions, you simply have to face a lot more obstacles than your typical counterparts. Coping with a break up without the support from your friends and family makes the process that much more difficult.

 

I would like to offer my perspective on the successes you have had this year. As an outsider, I have the advantage of seeing things through clearer/non-emotional lenses, I feel like. Because you are right in the middle of it, coupled with your depression (and your depression lenses), you may not be able to give yourself the credits where they are due. So I would like to do that.

 

Your accomplishments this year:

 

1. You have survived the entire year!!!

2. You improved your financial situation by taking the full time job! Yes, you know this, but do you know its significance?

3. You have at least made attempts at meeting new people. Once again, you already know this, but did you give yourself some credit for trying?

4. You managed to do something fun for yourself.

5. You made a plan for your birthday.

6. You inspired a lot of people on this thread by totally being honest.

 

Please acknowledge these accomplishments before you quickly dismiss them by saying "well, they don't count." If you can accept these accomplishments as accomplishments, then great!!! If you don't, please at least acknowledge that it's your depression talking, that you are seeing things through your depression lenses and "minimizing" the positive in your life (one of the cognitive distortions common among people with depression).

 

Out of all the self-help books on depression, I found the information on cognitive distortion to be the most helpful. Chimpan-A-2-Chimpan-Z gave you the link to the list of those cognitive distortions in the previous post. I hope you will find it helpful as I did and make use of it to cope with your difficulties.

 

Like you, I struggle with making new friends. In my 30s, I have less opportunities to make new friends my age. People my age do not open up easily as younger people might. They typically already have a close knit of friends and do not need new ones. Here's how I utilize the knowledge of cognitive distortion so that I won't get discouraged.

 

Situation: I go to a social event with a few of my acquaintances (potential long term friends). We engage in light conversations and share a few laughters.

 

My automatic distorted thought: This was not the kind of gathering I wanted. I did not get to really talk about my deepest fears. They didn't share anything deep or personal. This superficial exchanges won't lead to anything meaningful.

 

My augmented thought 1: Wow! I totally minimized the positive (distortion type) and jumped to conclusion (distortion type) here. At least they were willing to invite me. Just because we didn't talk about our deepest secrets doesn't mean we don't have the potential to become close friends in the future. It's the accumulations of sharing small talk and few laughs that serve as the foundation of a lasting friendship. It takes time to build a lasting friendship. (For those of you who are more fluent in the cognitive distortion, feel free to point out what I missed!)

 

Knowing this, I still make the effort to attend social events. I still do not feel comfortable enough to call on them to talk about my worries. I think it's too early. But knowing this, I can cope with the long process of developing a friendship and helps me be a little more patient.

 

As for your struggle with FB, I am sure all of us will be willing to support you in your transition effort. If you are not able to go complete cold turkey, how about aim at spending less time/reducing the frequency of browsing for now? Tell us about the instances in which you were able to reduce your browsing from 1 hour to 45 minutes. It is still a progress. Tell us when you were able to go through a day without browsing. We will congratulate you!

[Zapbasket]

So, I received a message from K's mom on Sunday morning. I didn't listen to it until Monday afternoon because I dreaded having the same reaction to her contact that I did a month ago, when she last contacted me.

 

She called to say hi and "catch up." And, to tell me that starting after this weekend and for the next two months, she will be working in my office. My office is small--there are 9 of us working in it, with only 4 having their own offices (and I'm not one of those four)--so I she will be right in my face every day.

 

I want to reclaim some power in this situation. The reason her contact has hurt so much is that I keep trying to accommodate to HER, squelching my pain in order to hold on to a relationship with her. What I've thought I should do is to call her today and ask her please to meet with me this week. And then tell her what I just said here. It's time I own my own needs and stick up for myself. The thought of her being in my office makes me .

Edited August 26, 2014 by GreenCove

[Zapbasket]

I have slept terribly. I fear that she'll put off meeting one on one with me as much as she can. But, I guess that's just another piece of information in this morass....

[BC1980]

So, I received a message from K's mom on Sunday morning. I didn't listen to it until Monday afternoon because I dreaded having the same reaction to her contact that I did a month ago, when she last contacted me.

 

She called to say hi and "catch up." And, to tell me that starting after this weekend and for the next two months, she will be working in my office. My office is small--there are 9 of us working in it, with only 4 having their own offices (and I'm not one of those four)--so I she will be right in my face every day.

 

I want to reclaim some power in this situation. The reason her contact has hurt so much is that I keep trying to accommodate to HER, squelching my pain in order to hold on to a relationship with her. What I've thought I should do is to call her today and ask her please to meet with me this week. And then tell her what I just said here. It's time I own my own needs and stick up for myself. The thought of her being in my office makes me .

 

This situation has definitely come to a crisis point, as did your relationship with K. I'm worried that you are still not being proactive about your needs and with your boundaries. You let it get to the point of no return, and another person (K's mom) has forced your hand to act. You become reactionary instead of the one in control.

 

Obviously, you can't control where she works, but she thinks that you are cool with being friends with her. I think it's going to be awkward to suddenly spring the idea onto her that you don't want to be friends, just as she is about to be in a position to see you five days a week. If she is only going to be in the office for two months, I might actually wait until after that time to distance myself from her completely. I don't know that my advice is correct, so hopefully others will chime in with some suggestions. I'm sorry it's come to this with his mom, but use it as a lesson, GC. Learn from this. Learn how to avoid this situation in the future by asserting your boundaries. I know that you know all of this, but it's time to put it into action. Had you enforced your boundaries months ago, this probably would have played out differently. Do not continue to put yourself into the line of fire like this. We don't think you deserve it, but, somewhere along the line, you decided that your feelings and needs weren't worth fighting for.

Edited August 26, 2014 by BC1980

[BC1980]

What I've thought I should do is to call her today and ask her please to meet with me this week. And then tell her what I just said here. It's time I own my own needs and stick up for myself. The thought of her being in my office makes me .

 

What do you plan to say to her at the meet up?

[Zapbasket]

This situation has definitely come to a crisis point, as did your relationship with K. I'm worried that you are still not being proactive about your needs and with your boundaries. You let it get to the point of no return, and another person (K's mom) has forced your hand to act. You become reactionary instead of the one in control.

 

I was willing to be patient (even if it was difficult for me) to see how things played out, with hope that clarity would come and with it, empowerment, because then I would KNOW. But at this point, for me, here's the problem:

 

Obviously, you can't control where she works, but she thinks that you are cool with being friends with her.

I don't get the vibe that she is trying to be my "friend," or trying to build or further a "friendship" between us. I mean, in our last conversation a month ago, she said that when she's back in town on a regular basis we'll make plans to get together. But then all she calls with on Sunday is telling me she's going to be working in my office and we'll get to see each other. That underscores a professional relationship--working for the same company--but is not the same as us going out for coffee, or dinner or drinks or lunch.

 

Our relationship has changed, which is of course necessary, but she has pursued me hard all year and now I feel she is distancing herself, or I don't know what it is.

 

And that's why I want to meet with her one on one, to invite some kind of clarity from her so that I don't have to interact with her in my own office in a perpetual state of confusion, while everyone around us has no idea that I am suffering, because confused.

 

You asked what I want to say to her. I want to say something along these lines:

"D., when I heard that we were going to be working in the same office for the next little while, I wanted to have a chance to talk with you just to get some things out in the open, before seeing you at work.

 

"The main thing I have to say is that for me, you can never be just someone I work with, no matter how long we work at this company together. It's actually a painful prospect to work with you, because my history with you is through a different context, where you were much more significant to me than a coworker. And for me, you will always have that significance in my heart, even though your ROLE toward me, and me you, is different. Know what I mean? I have had to mourn the loss of you as my prospective mother-in-law, and over the years you and your family came to feel like my family. And I've had to mourn the loss of that, too. These kinds of situations are hard because even though we have kept in touch, of course our relationship has had to change, and I wanted to be up front with you about where I was emotionally.

 

"All year I tried very hard to hide from you just how much pain I was in. I didn't want to burden you or make you feel bad when there was nothing you could do. I also have been completely poker-faced at work; no one has any idea what kind of year I've had, or the history you and I share. And that's hard for me."

 

And then, depending on how responsive / receptive she is and what she says / how she acts as I say this, I'd also add:

 

"All the way through the spring, I felt convinced deep down that K and I would talk. It didn't feel to me that there was any real closure. I got the feeling that at least for a while, you also felt like K and I would talk, which meant there was always the possibility that things could go back to how they were. And it seems like as summer began, we both realized, maybe, that it wasn't going to happen. Which kind-of put you and I in a different position. Maybe? And this is why I felt it was important that I say these things to you.

 

"Of course I understand that things cannot go back to how they were. But I really want you to know how much I adore you and how much you always will mean to me, even if we don't talk or see each other much. Seeing you in a work context is difficult for me because to me that context is not at all where I feel I know you. And seeing you there is a painful reminder of what I have lost. To me, you really did become family and that feeling won't ever go away, even though obviously I won't be there at Christmas, or hanging out in your living room with everyone, cuddling with Wiener-Dog and playing with the girls. I'm so sad to lose all that, never mind how heartbroken I am not to have K in my life."

 

"So, yeah, I love you and always will."

I emailed her yesterday morning asking that we please meet this week, and here is her emailed reply, sent late last night:

 

Hey There! Just getting to my emails. Rather a long day! I will have to get back with you about us getting together this week. I have a hectic week trying to wrap up some things before going back to work next week. I will do my best to figure a time, if not can next week work? Are you okay??

I'm afraid that if I say, "Sure, let's plan on next week," then it just will keep getting pushed on and I really want to try to meet with her BEFORE she is in my office with me. So my thought is to call her this morning on the way to work and say if there is any way we could meet this week, it would be great, because it's something important.

 

I have taken great care never to push her all year, but at this point I feel I really need to assert my needs. I don't think she will feel I wasted her time once I say these things to her, unless she really plans to cut me off or doesn't have any feeling for me. I do recognize that this is entirely about MY needs and not necessarily a benefit to her to hear what I have to say, because SHE is not confused. But that's the thing: I've played along with her all year and I feel it's time I get authentic and if the result is that we can keep up a relationship that's a little more freed from the past, then great; and if not, then this can serve as a warm "goodbye" of sorts.

 

What do you think?

Edited August 27, 2014 by GreenCove

[Carpe-diem]

Hello GC

 

I'm new to this site and this is my third attempt at writing to you so I'm sending you a short note to see if this sends, then I might just send you lots of little messages. I have followed your post from the beginning and my heart breaks for you. I know exactly what you are going through but I think I am getting there but you are not because you are holding out on hope. Another way of putting this....Wishful thinking. The first thing you need to do is truly accept the relationship is over. Hope is fantasy, it's cruel and it stops you moving on.

 

Right let's see if you get this. x

[Carpe-diem]

Yes! It sent. Right I shall continue my thoughts.

 

K has made no effort to get in contact with you or reach out to you, despite you seeing each other in your town or his Mother's continued friendship with you (we'll get to that later). People will move mountains to be with the one they love. I can only think of a few reasons why you can't be with the one you love and top of that very short list is the Incredible Hulk.

 

From reading your posts it sounds like this relationship was doomed from the start. You said you spent 3 years arguing to be respected. You were both in therapy for the relationship. He said communicating with you would be "Daunting". This isn't a healthy relationship. They say everything happens for a reason but sometimes you don't need to know the reason. K has his reasons he just hasn't expressed them clearly but actions speak louder then words. He may be doing the decent thing by staying away so as not to get your hopes up but I don't want to give him too much credit.

 

xx

[Carpe-diem]

And so I continue......I'm on a roll.

 

The reason I can relate to you is I am also one year post break up so I really feel your pain.

 

Brief history...Dated ex for under a year. Started off great. He was kind, caring, passionate, we got on great, did lots of things together. Roll on 4-5 months later, he's cold, nasty, disrespectful, selfish, controlling etc. He most likely has BPD. I know you shouldn't diagnose but come on, if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. This has been the most difficult break up I've ever had. It's a total head f**k because of the push and pulling, love and hate of it all. It got to the point where some of my friends and family could see what was happening and had to step in and say, ENOUGH and make me see sense and realise that this relationship was only going to get worse and he will eventually destroy me.

 

After the year mark this is what some good people did for you on this site. They politely said to you GC, ENOUGH! Your fear is correct...you aren't progressing. Whilst I can relate to you and what you are going through my story really resonates with BC1980. How her ex was and how she is dealing with it. We all want you to get to this stage. Please don't think I'm over my ex. Far from it. There has probably been on 5-6 days in the last year that I have not cried. I have been to a therapist. I went back on Anti Depressants (ironically it was meeting him that took me off them)!! I'd also like to say that Elseaarych has really hit the nail on the head with her posts.

 

K could never give you the relationship you wanted or deserve. He didn't respect your boundaries. You are like the rest of us that you fear he will meet someone else and be the man you wanted him to be. Without therapy this will not happen I can guarantee. People can change their behaviour like give up smoking or stop swearing etc but deep rooted personality traits...no way. Imagine pretending to be someone you're not, eventually the mask will slip. As Maya Angelou said, when someone shows you who they really are believe them!

[Carpe-diem]

Me again. I'm sure people reading this will be like, oh ffs!

 

Sometimes we want the relationship more then the person. I say this as I'm a few years older than you and I do think I put up with a lot of the ex's crap because my end goal was living with a man and trying for a baby. I hate admitting this because it sounds like I didn't love my ex. I really did, more then any other man but even my dream future wasn't worth putting up with the emotional, manipulating abuse I was getting. The dream would have become a nightmare and I think you would have had the same result with K.

 

You need to take the focus off K and plant it firmly on your deserving, lovely self. Whilst you have not been in contact physically for a year, he has occupied your headspace all this time. I say this to myself everyday but I concentrate on the 90% of him that was awful and how I know it would never have worked and if I'm honest, I saw this (the infamous red flags) from the 4th date. I think you know this too. They chose to leave us, F**k them.

 

I warned my ex that if we split up I wouldn't remain friends (funnily enough the 4th date also) so when he sat at home one day thinking of breaking up with me, weighing up that he'll never see me again or know anything about me, guess what? He still did. That sums it up for me. And guess what again, he contacts me 6 weeks later to return some stuff. We meet, we're lovely to each other but nothing is said and so the NC resumes....and guess what, he sends me an email a month after that, something about work, no mention of us. I ignored it and I haven't heard from him since. Bumped into him earlier this year but I turned away. Most awkward journery home ever. When we split up and he asked why we couldn't be friends I said, "Because you don't deserve my friendship". Despite me saying no contact he ignored it twice. Got my hopes up that he was reaching out but he's a control freak who was trying to regain control. At least K hasn't played mind games with you.

 

With regards to the situation with his Mother, I don't think it's as big of a problem as you think it will be. She sounds like a decent woman and will respect your wishes. You can still be cordial to each other and respect your boundaries. She'll understand I'm sure.

 

xxxx

[elseaacych]

I was willing to be patient (even if it was difficult for me) to see how things played out, with hope that clarity would come and with it, empowerment, because then I would KNOW. But at this point, for me, here's the problem:

 

I don't get the vibe that she is trying to be my "friend," or trying to build or further a "friendship" between us. I mean, in our last conversation a month ago, she said that when she's back in town on a regular basis we'll make plans to get together. But then all she calls with on Sunday is telling me she's going to be working in my office and we'll get to see each other. That underscores a professional relationship--working for the same company--but is not the same as us going out for coffee, or dinner or drinks or lunch.

 

Our relationship has changed, which is of course necessary, but she has pursued me hard all year and now I feel she is distancing herself, or I don't know what it is.

 

And that's why I want to meet with her one on one, to invite some kind of clarity from her so that I don't have to interact with her in my own office in a perpetual state of confusion, while everyone around us has no idea that I am suffering, because confused.

 

You asked what I want to say to her. I want to say something along these lines:

"D., when I heard that we were going to be working in the same office for the next little while, I wanted to have a chance to talk with you just to get some things out in the open, before seeing you at work.

 

"The main thing I have to say is that for me, you can never be just someone I work with, no matter how long we work at this company together. It's actually a painful prospect to work with you, because my history with you is through a different context, where you were much more significant to me than a coworker. And for me, you will always have that significance in my heart, even though your ROLE toward me, and me you, is different. Know what I mean? I have had to mourn the loss of you as my prospective mother-in-law, and over the years you and your family came to feel like my family. And I've had to mourn the loss of that, too. These kinds of situations are hard because even though we have kept in touch, of course our relationship has had to change, and I wanted to be up front with you about where I was emotionally.

 

"All year I tried very hard to hide from you just how much pain I was in. I didn't want to burden you or make you feel bad when there was nothing you could do. I also have been completely poker-faced at work; no one has any idea what kind of year I've had, or the history you and I share. And that's hard for me."

 

And then, depending on how responsive / receptive she is and what she says / how she acts as I say this, I'd also add:

 

"All the way through the spring, I felt convinced deep down that K and I would talk. It didn't feel to me that there was any real closure. I got the feeling that at least for a while, you also felt like K and I would talk, which meant there was always the possibility that things could go back to how they were. And it seems like as summer began, we both realized, maybe, that it wasn't going to happen. Which kind-of put you and I in a different position. Maybe? And this is why I felt it was important that I say these things to you.

 

"Of course I understand that things cannot go back to how they were. But I really want you to know how much I adore you and how much you always will mean to me, even if we don't talk or see each other much. Seeing you in a work context is difficult for me because to me that context is not at all where I feel I know you. And seeing you there is a painful reminder of what I have lost. To me, you really did become family and that feeling won't ever go away, even though obviously I won't be there at Christmas, or hanging out in your living room with everyone, cuddling with Wiener-Dog and playing with the girls. I'm so sad to lose all that, never mind how heartbroken I am not to have K in my life."

 

"So, yeah, I love you and always will."

I emailed her yesterday morning asking that we please meet this week, and here is her emailed reply, sent late last night:

 

I'm afraid that if I say, "Sure, let's plan on next week," then it just will keep getting pushed on and I really want to try to meet with her BEFORE she is in my office with me. So my thought is to call her this morning on the way to work and say if there is any way we could meet this week, it would be great, because it's something important.

 

I have taken great care never to push her all year, but at this point I feel I really need to assert my needs. I don't think she will feel I wasted her time once I say these things to her, unless she really plans to cut me off or doesn't have any feeling for me. I do recognize that this is entirely about MY needs and not necessarily a benefit to her to hear what I have to say, because SHE is not confused. But that's the thing: I've played along with her all year and I feel it's time I get authentic and if the result is that we can keep up a relationship that's a little more freed from the past, then great; and if not, then this can serve as a warm "goodbye" of sorts.

 

What do you think?

 

I think that what you said was fair and honest. I think at this point, you do need to be up front with her if you two are going to be working closely in a professional setting, because losing your job would be really bad news. With that in mind, your message needs a little tweaking..

 

I don't think you need to bring up that it is painful to see her, because you have to assume that anything you say to her will get back to your ex. Just say that you were so happy to be a part of her family for a little while, and you care for her a great deal. However, things have changed, and you both need to evolve your relationship. Things changed a long time ago, and because of where she stands both at the company, and as the mother of your ex, You aren't sure where you stand in her eyes, and it would be helpful if she gave you some clarity.

 

Then she answers. You listen.

 

Then you encourage that because you and K have been broken up for a long time, she treat you more like a co-worker than a family member.

 

You are going to continue to see her in some regard, so you have to tactfully mention the elephant in the room, and you both need to be crystal clear on what it looks like. It may involve some compromise. It also requires you to do an honest assessment of what sort of impact she will have on your professional life, her role in relation to yours, and what could happen if you are insubordinate or mean. If there is a Human Resources rep. that handles these sorts of things, you might benefit from talking to him or her.

 

Either way, it's going to be a tough discussion, but you must do it before she starts work at your office.

 

You can do it.

Edited August 27, 2014 by elseaacych

[BC1980]

I definitely agree that you don't need to get you personal about your feelings about K because it might get back to him. She can't be your confidant anymore, so I wouldn't divulge too much on where you are emotionally.

[Zapbasket]

A lot to respond to and I'll try to respond to as much as I can; I'll be back later regardless.

 

I definitely agree that you don't need to get you personal about your feelings about K because it might get back to him. She can't be your confidant anymore, so I wouldn't divulge too much on where you are emotionally.

 

I don't really care what gets back to K regarding my emotional response to this whole thing. I do care that she can see into my work life and report THAT to him, but him hearing that this year was a painful hell for me is...who cares: he's already shown that he doesn't have a lot of empathy. What I have to say to her is FOR HER, and I think it's important she know that I play a part in possibly misleading her because I never let on, all year, just how much pain and turmoil I was in.

[elseaacych]

Depending on the type of work you are involved in, there may be some ramifications involved with disclosing the nature of work or work assignments. Check company policy, and if applicable, state or federal law.

 

Although I know you think you shouldn't care about what Ex's Mom says to Ex, you really should. This is about establishing your relationship with her (and not your ex) GOING FORWARD. NOT LOOKING BACK.

 

If you are counting on her comforting you and giving you a hug, I think you will be disappointed. This isn't the relationship either of you have, or are planning to have in the future.

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think she'll really care about your feelings regarding her son, especially if her son initiated the break up... which happened a year ago. Particularly if your ex seems to be happier. She cares more about her son than she cares about you. Sorry to sound so harsh, but these are the facts. SHE'S HIS MOM.

 

What would happen if she told him your life was miserable? What if he decided then just to yank your chain for the hell of it, and actually get in contact with you?

 

THINK, GC!

 

This would not just be a case of the dreaded breadcrumbs... that could be a real set back for you. SERIOUSLY.

Edited August 28, 2014 by elseaacych

[BC1980]

Depending on the type of work you are involved in, there may be some ramifications involved with disclosing the nature of work or work assignments. Check company policy, and if applicable, state or federal law.

 

Although I know you think you shouldn't care about what Ex's Mom says to Ex, you really should. This is about establishing your relationship with her (and not your ex) GOING FORWARD. NOT LOOKING BACK.

 

If you are counting on her comforting you and giving you a hug, I think you will be disappointed. This isn't the relationship either of you have, or are planning to have in the future.

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think she'll really care about your feelings regarding her son, especially if her son initiated the break up... which happened a year ago. Particularly if your ex seems to be happier. She cares more about her son than she cares about you. Sorry to sound so harsh, but these are the facts. SHE'S HIS MOM.

 

What would happen if she told him your life was miserable? What if he decided then just to yank your chain for the hell of it, and actually get in contact with you?

 

THINK, GC!

 

This would not just be a case of the dreaded breadcrumbs... that could be a real set back for you. SERIOUSLY.

 

I have to second all of this. It's harsh, but I don't think she cares all that much because her loyalty is always going to be to her son. There are usually sides in a breakup even if it seems silly. My uncle was an alcoholic who cheated on his wife and left her for another woman, yet my grandmother still supported him and found fault with his ex-wife.

 

I feel like you over think you entire relationship with her, but it's because of what you have been through. It pains you in ways she cannot understand, so I would be very careful about opening up with much substance about your feelings. I just wouldn't go there with her.

[BC1980]

A lot to respond to and I'll try to respond to as much as I can; I'll be back later regardless.

 

 

 

I don't really care what gets back to K regarding my emotional response to this whole thing. I do care that she can see into my work life and report THAT to him, but him hearing that this year was a painful hell for me is...who cares: he's already shown that he doesn't have a lot of empathy. What I have to say to her is FOR HER, and I think it's important she know that I play a part in possibly misleading her because I never let on, all year, just how much pain and turmoil I was in.

 

Don't tell her you might have misled her. You don't need to admit any supposed wrong doing because you haven't done anything wrong. You ave been under extreme emotional stress, and she might have sensed that and stayed away. The situation won't be as awkward for her, but she will probably take cues from you on how to proceed.

 

Also, the fact that he cut you off was the best thing for you, and he was probably trying to move on. I'm sure it was a decision to benefit him, but it was the best thing for you in the long run as well. I went back and read the last email he sent you, and it was clear to me. A lot of people don't even get that much of a letter regarding a breakup.

[Zapbasket]

I have to second all of this. It's harsh, but I don't think she cares all that much because her loyalty is always going to be to her son. There are usually sides in a breakup even if it seems silly. My uncle was an alcoholic who cheated on his wife and left her for another woman, yet my grandmother still supported him and found fault with his ex-wife.

 

I feel like you over think you entire relationship with her, but it's because of what you have been through. It pains you in ways she cannot understand, so I would be very careful about opening up with much substance about your feelings. I just wouldn't go there with her.

 

I met with her after work today, and we had a good talk. It was nothing like any of us surmised, not at all like what you say here, and everything that I could have hoped and that in my heart I knew was true.

 

I'm afraid if I state the things she said, you'll all tell me it is keeping me tied to K and getting my hopes up. I think this was the most honest and healthy conversation within, around, and about this relationship and the break-up that I have been able to have.

 

But basically, she said that nothing for her has changed; she loves me and wants us to carry on in a friendship that is just about her and me, and she realizes that right now seeing her could bring up difficult feelings for me regarding K. She said she trusts that I will let her know what is comfortable for me and I said that I'm dealing with it still and might need some distance for a while, but that is not permanent.

 

She told me she thinks K has made a huge mistake and this spring it got to where they had to agree not to discuss me with each other because it was so clear she did not side with him. She told me that at family events she has felt sad because it felt like I should be there and she says she intends never to get involved with anyone K or any of her children date the way she did with me, because the whole thing has hurt her, too.

 

She still hopes to some extent that there could be a reconciliation, and asked whether I had dated and told me he has not gone on any dates.

 

I know this sounds like this all has given me hope, but honestly, the only kind of "hope" it is given me is the peace that comes from knowing that what I felt was there, at least with his mom, really was there. I told her that I no longer had any expectations of him, and I meant it. I think I have begun to arrive there.

 

And regarding the email he sent me, it's not at all like it sounds. I don't give him any credit for writing that email; it's a drive-by apology for something that plagued the relationship from the get-go, coupled with a complete lack of connection between that and why we might have argued so much. It represents running away and not at all doing something mature or thought out. I don't need to valorize it by comparing it with what other d*ckheads out in the big wide world did or didn't do at the ending of their relationships. It was childish and cowardly, which was his behavior throughout the entire relationship.

 

She didn't say it in so many words, but I strongly have the impression that his mom would agree with my whole previous paragraph.

 

I'm really glad I insisted on that meeting and I'm glad I didn't cut her off. I told her that a lot of people say it's ridiculous to think an ex-girlfriend can be friends with her ex-boyfriend's mom, and she said, "I don't think that at all." I said, "I don't, either."

 

This was exactly what I wanted, and I couldn't ask for anything more. In all this I am very relieved and grateful that something has turned out like I hoped. It's not like we're going to go skipping off into the sunset together, but I do think we have established the grounds to go forward in a mutually caring way that gives me the space to continue healing and us to evolve a relationship that acknowledges, as she said, our shared past, while also builds on a working relationship and mutual affection and respect.

 

This has done my heart good.

[Lostdreams]

Dear GC,

 

I am glad you are feeling feel better after this meeting and you have re-established a good connection to this lady.

 

I divorced some years ago and my ex came from a family of 7 kids. In the beginning I did not contact any of them after moving out - I felt his family should be there for him and I didn't want to influence their relationships with their brother.

 

This was the situation for a few months - we had been married 9 years and I was also godmother to one of several nieces on his side.

 

3 ex sisters-in-law contacted me (all separately) about 3 months later and I have been on good terms with all of them ever since - still now 15 years down the line. I even consider one of his sisters to be a close a friend you can have.

 

Why did we stay in touch - because they value me as a person not just as a temporary addition to the family and I feel the same. These are people I would appreciate even if there had been no previous in law family ties.

 

I was over my ex and comfortable with the BU and my relationships with them have never, never been focused around their brother or the old relationship.

 

Initial conversations with them post BU did clarify my position - but I only voiced this when they asked specifically. I never saw these contacts as a possible means to get a message through to my ex nor to gain any information about him. Sure sometimes they volunteered stuff - but it no longer affected me if I heard it or if I didn't.

 

I baby-sit for them sometimes and keep contact with my ex in law nieces as well - I think it is possible to maintain successful relationships with an ex's family members when there is mutual respect, love and no motive to seek information on the ex.

 

On another side his 2 brothers and 1 sister never spoke to me again - and this is also OK

 

The point I want to make is we can truly value and love ex in-law family members who we only meet via a relationship and then continue to see them regularly after a BU - but it should never be seen a means to remain latched on to the ex or to remain close to the details of his life via a third party.

 

You've done the ground work with this initial meeting which had a positive outcome but I think you now have to eliminate "K" talk from your relationship with his Mum and in your conversations together - the air has been cleared. You can still fully value and enjoy her presence in your life but now on a totally new basis and only if it brings you positive feelings.

 

Sending you hugs

[BC1980]

GC, with regards to the email, I was saying that he made his intentions clear, and you shouldn't hold out for any closure from him. I'm not saying the substance of the email was anything to write home about, and I've said that it was for his benefit in the previous post. I think you completely misunderstood me, so I'm sorry if I didn't state my feelings clearly. I wouldn't give him much credit either, but that email sounds exactly like what he would write, given how you have described him.

Edited August 28, 2014 by BC1980

[Zapbasket]

GC, with regards to the email, I was saying that he made his intentions clear, and you shouldn't hold out for any closure from him. I'm not saying the substance of the email was anything to write home about, and I've said that it was for his benefit in the previous post. I think you completely misunderstood me, so I'm sorry if I didn't state my feelings clearly. I wouldn't give him much credit either, but that email sounds exactly like what he would write, given how you have described him.

 

 

No, no--I think I understood what you were getting at. My burst of emotion wasn't in response to you or what you said so much as it was my own disgust that that was all he could gather up to say after 3.5 years together, and containing within it a refusal to meet me in person and face the situation like a man. The email still manages to blame me and leave it at that, and only very, very partially does he take any responsibility for the turmoil HE brought into the relationship and that he then uses as a ruse and excuse with his mother for why he can't be with me ("too much acrimony"). If he didn't want discord, they he shouldn't have spent so much time stirring things up; his behavior was at complete cross purposes with what he made out he wanted from a relationship.

 

BC1980, I'm sorry it sounded like I was snapping at you. I'm just really disappointed and yes, ANGRY at him. A few posts ago Carpe-diem said to believe a person when they show you who they are. K never took responsibility for the direction his life was heading. It always was someone else's fault. He never seemed to reflect on his past in terms of how HIS actions or beliefs might have directed the outcome. He never said, "I did ______ in my previous relationship and that is why _______ happened / we ended up breaking up." He always was sullen with his family, like a sullen teenager, who showed love but only grudgingly. He had a bad attitude about everything and everyone, and this was hidden beneath a facade of charm and joviality that he put on when we went out in public.

 

There is a side of him that is a nice guy, but--and here is the most astute observation I've managed--he is unable to keep that up when someone gets too close to him. He can be a nice guy as long as people remain OUTSIDE. He constantly battled me for the sole reason that I got under HIS skin, because in his heart. He won't and cannot allow that. He is actually much nicer to the people to whom he is indifferent.

 

Being with someone like this runs counter to everything a reasonably emotionally healthy person believes or expects about relationships. Paradoxically, the more you try to respond to the relationship through a lens of what a healthy relationship should be, with someone like K the HARDER it actually will be to get the kind of engagement you want and a relationship needs to survive. That's why I felt constantly off balance and in a perpetual state of mind-F*ck.

 

K would always growl at me, "I've NEVER had a relationship like this!" And I would always rejoin with, "That's because you never have had a relationship with someone who actually cared enough to ASK something of you." I was right. The only way he will feel okay in a relationship is if he is with someone who is as counterdependent and out of reach as he is. They will be able to engage with each other because they remain DISengaged from each other. So their whole "relationship" will be based on non-engagement. There will be no there there.

 

Which is what he left me with. AFter meeting with his mom yesterday, I had this clarity and sadness that while his MOM and I can have this mutually loving and respectful relationship going forward, our having that does not resurrect anything I *thought* I had with K. It's just about her and me. Which is a GOOD thing, going forward, but it just serves to underscore, as well, what was never possible with K.

 

That realization--the non-entity, the LACK, with K--is very, very painful. Because how can you be with someone and nothing be there? With K, that is the only way it could have been. People who had some insight into K and our relationship used the word "vacant" to describe him, and that is what he is both within himself, and then correspondingly, to whose with whom he participates in this kind of non-engagement he calls "engagement."

 

Why was I so willing to try to pull substance and emotional connection out of a black hole? Why did I read "something" there when psychologically it was obvious that there just was no there there? I mean, all along I FELT that to be the case.

 

It's so, so, so, so f*cking sad. I hate it. I so, so hate it, LS friends. Because then even my memories of him and us, have this kind of non-entity feeling to it, this vacancy.

 

And even a continued relationship with his mother doesn't fill that vacancy. This is a painful realization, as well as a relief, because it means that our interaction and connection no longer has to pull this train wreck of psychological tangle and lack of self-awareness (K's lack) behind it, trying to make sense of it. We both see what is to be seen and now we no longer have to pretend we don't.

 

Easy to type this, ever so much more painful to see it laid out like a tapestry of pointy nails laid over my heart. Damn it, damn it, damn it.