Fear I am not progressing well in coping, 2

[Zapbasket]

I've been feeling really frustrated with myself for seemingly being unable to kill the wish that K would contact me to have a meaningful conversation about our relationship and to say he made a mistake. I'm being more specific than I have in the past: I don't just want "contact," but this kind of contact:

 

"GC, I am so sorry. I messed up everything. I was scared and I kept pushing you away and then blaming you when you got upset. I ran away in the end because I felt inadequate and generally lost in my life and I saw that the relationship had reached the point where something was required of me and I balked and ran. My cowardice and treatment of you and humiliating you in front of your mother and disrespecting both you and your mother has haunted me every day since August 23, 2013 when we last spoke face to face. Every day I have missed you and felt I've made the biggest mistake of my life. I realize it has taken me a long time to reach out to you, and that was because I was afraid, because let's face it, it would be totally understandable if you never wanted to speak to me again. I kept telling myself I couldn't stand to have you reject me. But, GC, I love you. I always did and I still do; I never stopped loving you. I think I have some issues that get in the way of how I handle intimacy, and to be honest, I don't know how to address my issues. I tried therapy as you know, but I felt at a loss there, too. I feel awful knowing that all my behaviors both in the relationship and in the 1.5 years since have only hurt you. My family misses you. I miss you. God, I miss you, GC."

I suspect at least some of this is the truth, but for K to say any of it would be a radical change from what I experienced in the relationship with him.

 

Anyway, I am always checking in with myself to see how I am progressing, and I always am disappointed when I realize that I still harbor hope that we could have some kind of meaningful contact, initiated by him. I yell at myself in my mind, along these lines: "GC, it is RIGHT that you are out of this relationship. He was too immature / too stuck / too in denial / too defeatest / too out of touch with himself to be able to grow in a relationship with you, and grow a relationship with you. The relationship needed to be over, and it is, and this frees you to work on yourself and hold out for a relationship that truly is fulfilling to you. So stop wishing for something that just won't happen, unless God Himself whacks K with a thunderclap of self-realization that sends him running to you to share it."

 

But I suppose, to quote the song, "The heart wants what it wants." I loved K so much, and I still do love him. And I know how insane that is. But it's what I have to work with. I do not want to reach out to him, even though my heart melted when I passed him on a frontage road today in his truck with his new fly fishing rig on top. Because I am not going to chase someone who doesn't want me; I will never do that again. I might put up a fight once, as I did TWICE with K, but I will never stay in a relationship where it's clear that the person I'm with can't or won't give me what I need.

 

I have decided that maybe, when you are dealing with a difficult breakup and have a feeling that you know is holding you back from fully healing, it's better to embrace everything about that feeling rather than to treat it as the enemy. Because after all, as spiritual teachings and psychological research continually illustrate, the more you fight what you feel the more powerful the feeling becomes. So I've decided to change tactics, and embrace the wish that K would contact me for a meaningful conversation. I'm sharing it here to force some outside accountability for my experiment. My hypothesis is that the more honestly I can accept the feeling, the wish, the more truly I can begin to find my way to acceptance that at least in this moment, today, all signs point to K never contacting me, and this outcome being my reality.

[Zapbasket]

So, in the spirit of my previous post, as part of embracing my "feeling owed" something by K and my wish/hope that he would meaningfully reach out, I'm imagining what I would say to him if I could say everything I was feeling, directly to him. It would be something like this:

 

K,

 

It has been one year and eight months since we last saw each other, and I can imagine you think I've moved on, as I imagine you have moved on. Whatever "moved on" means--I guess for me it means you're at peace with what happened between us; it no longer drags you down; you spend more time naturally thinking about the future than dwelling on the past, on us, and you are at peace with me not being in your life and no longer think of me with any wistfulness or longing or regret or even anger. Though knowing you, I imagine even if you have "moved on" in this way, you do still have anger towards me, which comes up every time you think of me, keeping you from feeling any of the other things you might feel about me, if you let yourself.

 

Well, I just wanted to let you know that while yes, my life is much better than it was while we dated, because I've begun to get adjusted to the way of life here, have made some new friends and have been steadily working on healing a brokenness that preceded you, I can't escape a sadness every day that you are not in my life. Every time I feel sadness, I also feel anger toward you, because it seems like you just did not care about me or the relationship as much as I had thought you did. You knew I wanted some greater sign of commitment from you and yet you let me continue spending time with your family, all of us expecting that you were going to make some move to make our commitment more permanent, and you never saying one way or other what you wanted and how you felt. I feel used by you and furious at your seeming indifference and for that, I sometimes feel like I hate you.

 

But I'm writing because at the same time, I just didn't get the sense, while we were together, that you loved me as little as your actions (really, your general lack thereof, both in the relationship and after) suggested. And so it's like I can neither fully feel sadness nor anger where you're concerned, because my overriding feeling is one of confusion. I felt it, K. I felt that you loved me. I also felt like I could never "find" you; like you just never were present, and not only not to me, but to your family, even your little nieces, to your dreams, nothing. I know I called you out on that multiple times, and every time you could offer no real explanation. Which is why I believe you, when you said to my mother a few days before we broke up that you were "so lost and confused." I think you ARE lost and confused and probably still are. But I also think that maybe a part of you realized that the "lost and confused" bit bought you a ticket out of having to take any responsibility for your actions (or, again, your non-actions). You never seemed to want to face yourself, and I think that's a reason why you always fought me so hard when I'd call you out on your bad behavior. And true to that desire to not face yourself, rather than look into WHY we fought, you just said, "There is always such acrimony between us," and once again, poof! You don't have to take any responsibility for yourself.

 

I hate you all over again while I write about this part of you. Because I believed to my very core, and to some extent still do believe--though now with a swirl of confusion--that you are better than all this. Deep down you KNOW you are sabotaging yourself, and yet you won't step up and take accountability.

 

And without that, two people being accountable for their actions, there really can't be a relationship. So, given the circumstances I suppose it truly is for the best that we are broken up: "best" for you, because the way I saw you act, frankly you don't deserve me; and best for me, because now I am free to grow myself and my life and find someone who is unfettered from giving me the love he has and building a life with me, as true partners. But I hurt, because I wanted this with you, and all I got was your apathy and you fighting me all the time and over what? Me calling you out on your bull****, your disrespect, your stuckness--all things that anyone who cared a whit about themselves and you and who had a backbone worth a damn would call you out on.

 

When we broke up, I tried to accept it, though the last time we were face to face and I said, "So what so you want, then--for us to go our separate ways?" I did not even THINK that you would have answered, "I think so." And then for a year after we broke up, I was sure you would reach out. And you never did, and you never have, despite us living less than a mile apart. What else am I to take that as, except that you didn't really ever care whether I was in your life or not? You didn't really put up a fight or work to develop our relationship while we were together; you KNEW you were stuck and yet did nothing to pull yourself out and there is NO EXCUSE as your whole damn family is here, and friends from elementary school, and minus 5-6 years in your twenties, you've lived in this state your whole life! You had so much support and availed yourself of none of it, while resenting me for asking you to step up. It was always like, how dare I point out to you that YOU could be a part of the problem. And then when I put it to you point-blank, with a, "what do you want, K, to work this out or go our separate ways?" you just bailed. I tried one last time after that, emailing you saying, hey, let's go to counseling together, and you bailed on that, too, giving a sort-of "drive-by" apology for your behavior that you claim you are "ashamed" of, but mostly blaming me, and our "acrimony," and then the ultimate cop-out, that you feel you always are two steps behind me--well, yeah, you'll be two steps behind a sloth if you are just sitting on your azz feeling sorry for yourself!

 

I thought you cared, and evidently you didn't, and I wish more than anything that you would do something, say something, to show me that my gut feeling was never wrong--that at best you did and do care, but are just too ****ed up in your own mind to be able to share that sentiment functionally with the person you love.

 

You're like a horse lying in the grass that I KNOW has a few miles of balls-out gallop in him; I tried hand-feeding you apples and sugar and then lay by your side pleading with you until my voice ran out, and then as a last resort I stood over you, kicking and kicking you and...nothing.

 

F*ck you, K. And, I love you. And, I don't even know why I love you. And for that, I f*cking hate you.

[dangerbang]

GreenCove, I've read through some of the many pages. You've a lovely eloquent writing style, and it screams intelligence to me. But seriously, for a lady as smart as yourself, surely you can see this meaningless relationship as it was? You need to stop pining for the past. He doesn't care about you, you can't control how he feels, and who cares if he has guilt or not? You wouldn't care less about the relationship either if things started to work out for you, trust me.

You need to get out of that slump somehow. Maybe you should think about moving because it sounds like you live in a one horse town and I know that's what I'd be doing in your shoes, if I had no other commitments.

Let go of the feelings towards him, they're not real, they're only fantasies in your head.

[Zapbasket]

GreenCove, I've read through some of the many pages. You've a lovely eloquent writing style, and it screams intelligence to me. But seriously, for a lady as smart as yourself, surely you can see this meaningless relationship as it was? You need to stop pining for the past. He doesn't care about you, you can't control how he feels, and who cares if he has guilt or not? You wouldn't care less about the relationship either if things started to work out for you, trust me.

You need to get out of that slump somehow. Maybe you should think about moving because it sounds like you live in a one horse town and I know that's what I'd be doing in your shoes, if I had no other commitments.

Let go of the feelings towards him, they're not real, they're only fantasies in your head.

 

I think what has me in its grips is that during the relationship, I didn't see it as "empty." But even while I wrote that letter, the emptiness of it all screamed out at me from my own words. And I can't reconcile the two perceptions, seemingly. My mind goes, well, if it really were that empty, then why didn't you notice it well enough to make you leave much sooner than the R actually ended? But then, if indeed there were really something to the relationship, then it wouldn't have ended like it did, and with 20 months of silence.

 

Much of the pain I feel at this point, I realize, is at my inability to make sense of why I stuck around. I mean, because yeah, I'm not stupid, so what was I doing? Why was I saying I wanted to marry him? Was I delusional, or was there something? I can't even tell. The answers my logic comes up with when I manage to wrest it from my emotions are that K is a very troubled person who shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone, end of story. And I don't know why that is insufficient for my emotional "logic."

 

It's very painful and frustrating, because I don't ever want to end up in a situation like this again.

[Zapbasket]

GreenCove, I've read through some of the many pages. You've a lovely eloquent writing style, and it screams intelligence to me. But seriously, for a lady as smart as yourself, surely you can see this meaningless relationship as it was? You need to stop pining for the past. He doesn't care about you, you can't control how he feels, and who cares if he has guilt or not? You wouldn't care less about the relationship either if things started to work out for you, trust me.

 

Let go of the feelings towards him, they're not real, they're only fantasies in your head.

 

Thanks so much for your response, Dangerbang. I've been really thinking over this. I don't think the relationship was "meaningless"--I think in this most recent relationship as well as the two previous ones, there were good times when we genuinely connected and genuinely enjoyed and appreciated each other. It was not a case of "no there there." The problem was that while there were good, connected times, they were not enough. And my problem is that to date I have accepted a baseline of "good times" that really just isn't enough to hold a relationship together. All three relationships needed MORE connection, MORE communication, MORE accountability, and I think what hooked me was those things always being withheld, so I always assumed the familiar position of being hungry in the relationship, pulling for "more" so that it would be "enough." No wonder I've always said I have felt like Goldilocks; I'm always wandering looking for something that is "just right," but settling, resentfully, for "too little."

 

So I guess the question I have to ask myself is, How can I change my expectations and habits so that the position of always being a little deprived (of connection, respect, investment, commitment) by partners is so instantaneously distasteful that I can't get caught in it? I obviously am susceptible because it's familiar; my caregivers always were notoriously either absent or emotionally withholding and blaming me for being too "difficult" when what I really was doing was trying to get the level of emotional connection necessary for healthy interaction with another human being.

 

Anyway, I share all this in hopes others out there can relate.

 

You need to get out of that slump somehow. Maybe you should think about moving because it sounds like you live in a one horse town and I know that's what I'd be doing in your shoes, if I had no other commitments.

 

I hadn't wanted to make a reactive move due to this breakup, but I agree with you and moving is where I am leaning now. I think I am back to being able to think clearly *enough* that I can make decisions that aren't just based out of my hurt, though no doubt that plays a part, as just yet another disappointment where I live, when nothing has been quite adequate. I feel ready for a change and I feel like I need a change, just to shake things up and HOPEFULLY make it possible for new doors to open.

 

My big fear is, though: what if I move, and it's a terrible morass like my move to this town was? What if nothing works out for me there, either? I mean, it took me nearly FIVE years for me to find a stable job, a few ok friends, and a semblance of peace and happiness. I LOVE the outdoors life here; my passion for the outdoors is genuine, but I feel I'm destined for things additional to that. I also feel that the majority of guys here are drifting Peter Pans, even well into their 40s and 50s, and I fear that by staying here I will nix my chance to find a viable partner and start a family. But: what if I move, and the guys I meet there are by and large lame?

[BC1980]

GC, you said that you are still wondering why you didn't see earlier that the relationship wasn't good for you, wasn't going anywhere, ect. I think that love is such a powerful emotion that we simply don't want to believe what others can see from the outside. The idea that another person has picked us and loves us satisfies that deep need in all of us to be accepted. I don't think it's anymore complicated than that. The truth is that we did know something was off. We did sense there were commitment issues. But we didn't want to follow through when we knew we should have left. Those pesky emotions get in the way.

 

If someone else had come to me for advice and told them everything that happened in my relationship, I would have told them to run for the hills. Several friends and family members told me to leave the relationship. I don't think I would take it as a personal short coming or spend too much time on WHY you didn't leave. I've pretty much just accepted that I loved my ex, and that was too powerful for me to do what was good for me. A lot of people have much worse relationships than we did when it's black and white that it won't work (abuse, cheating), and they still stay. So it's no surprise really that we stayed.

[BC1980]

I also think you are at the point that it would be helpful to put some of these issues to bed even if you don't think you have a full understanding of them. I read some useful advice on Baggage Reclaim about ruminating on certain issues. It's fine to feel something, embrace it, and analyze it, but you have to stop at some point. I used to have a real problem with constant analyzing of certain issues. I'm a thinker and an analyzer like you, so I fall into the same trap. Sometimes, you have to realize that you have taken a certain thought as far as it can go. You have gained all the understanding that you will, and you have to brush it aside when it comes up.

 

I think it gets easier as time goes on because you aren't as interested anymore, and you naturally have other things to think about. But I definitely had to stop myself from continuing the obsessing about certain issues. I don't have much of a problem with it today thank goodness.

[lana-banana]

If you move to a new town and all the guys are lame, you'll at least be in a new city full of new potential experiences with zero chance of running into K. That seems like a net win.

 

It's one thing to be at peace with your feelings but you still seem both unwilling and unable to accept K does not want to contact you. In your most recent posts you theorize that it's just his cowardice that prevents him from reaching out and apologizing; while I understand we have to write our own narratives to make sense of things, this seems to be holding you back because you believe he still thinks of you kindly. I think you need to set the complicated explanations aside and accept K does not want to have any contact, much less a relationship, with you. Can you accept putting K---and all hope of future interaction---permanently behind you?

[fireflywy]

If you move to a new town and all the guys are lame, you'll at least be in a new city full of new potential experiences with zero chance of running into K. That seems like a net win.

 

It's one thing to be at peace with your feelings but you still seem both unwilling and unable to accept K does not want to contact you. In your most recent posts you theorize that it's just his cowardice that prevents him from reaching out and apologizing; while I understand we have to write our own narratives to make sense of things, this seems to be holding you back because you believe he still thinks of you kindly. I think you need to set the complicated explanations aside and accept K does not want to have any contact, much less a relationship, with you. Can you accept putting K---and all hope of future interaction---permanently behind you?

 

This is what I'm trying to do with my ex; get away.

 

Lol your name btw, always scares me. Its very close to my exes name.

[Gatema]

GC,

If I had the opportunity, such as you do at this time, I would look in to a new location to lay your weary head. Especially now, and considering the daily torment that you've been living with since your break up. Unless you have substantial commitments that are keeping you planted in this place, I would suggest that you don't spend one more minute in this town.

 

It's time. Don't you think, GC? You have mentioned several times that you have out grown this environment; you have nothing more to experience in this place. The upside for making a change is that you'll be able to untether yourself from those same chronic memories that are still holding you hostage. Why do you allow these memories to continue to keep you captive and consumed with remorse? It's simple, you haven't made a new history for yourself, which only means one thing to me, you haven't really left your last history behind, yet. Go and create a new life; away from the one that keeps you there. Unless you have a job that pays you up and beyond six figures a year, or a company that you have to run, small children enrolled in school, a fragile, dying parent that you must tend to, or you are currently incarcerated in a neighboring town; blow out of that popsicle stand the first chance that you get. It will energize you, it will redirect your thoughts and focus, and it will give you back the power/control that you have lost.

 

If you can just make yourself concentrate on starting a fresh, brand new future, trust me, the excitement will overshadow the regrets. Like it has been said a hundred times before on here to you, you'll never, ever, receive that pinnacle of an appropriate apology that you feel you truly deserve from him; it's not in his DNA. If you decide to be completely honest with yourself, you must know that deep down inside of your intellectual self, it shouldn't come to you as a big surprise that K is incapable of stepping up to the plate to put this whole thing to rest for you; I thinks he's scared to have an honest dialogue with you; probably because you can articulate circles around him; so he throws his hands up in to the air and slinks home using his silence as his debate. Not to slam your ex but it sounds to me that K doesn't have the emotional maturity that it takes to face his reasons for his departure. Therefore, his method is to avoid all contact with you; cleaner and easier. You know, much like a middle school boy would have done when he has decided that he has grown tired of his girlfriend; stops all interactions, and any acknowledgement abruptly ends. Boom, done!

 

Furthermore, and to expand on this subject even further; the mere fact that he just disappeared from your life is the stumbling block that keeps you stuck. You have been struggling with the way it played out. It's hard for you to conceptualize his attitude towards you (that he would treat you in this manner) let alone, that you have to accept that this is how your relationship has definitely ended with him. An absolute WTF moment.

 

And really, when you think about it, it would have been kinder of him to just take a 2X4 and smack you in your stomach with a full swing; that is, before he turned around and walked out the door without saying a word. At least, that's a painful blow that will eventually heal.

 

Don't give him any more power over your thoughts. There's a million K's out there, if that's what you are looking for in a relationship. However, they are not going to be found where you are now. You'll find the best guy for you when the time is right. It's your job to put the "right" in motion. Trust me on this, you'll look back in two or three years from now and wonder what the F you were thinking by staying so long in that nightmare those last two years. Be proactive.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Gatema

[lala2001]

GC, I haven't been on here in some time. I just want you to know everything you have written has helped me so much to not feel so alone in this process. It truly is a process... How are you? I see you haven't been on here for a few weeks... My exs bday is may 23 and we have traveled every year since 2008 on that day. I am hoping not to be a serious mess that day... Sending you hugs from San diego GC! You are never alone!

[Zapbasket]

GC, I haven't been on here in some time. I just want you to know everything you have written has helped me so much to not feel so alone in this process. It truly is a process... How are you? I see you haven't been on here for a few weeks... My exs bday is may 23 and we have traveled every year since 2008 on that day. I am hoping not to be a serious mess that day... Sending you hugs from San diego GC! You are never alone!

 

Thanks, Lala, and tremors thanks to Gatema and others for their thoughtful and thought-provoking posts. I have been wanting to reply but have had no computer for the last few weeks, and I am terrible at typing on my phone.

 

I am ok. I have been traveling for an intensive outdoor certification course; this was one small goal I set for myself for this summer and it's exhilarating to achieve it.

 

You are so right that overcoming a breakup is a process, and one, I think, that simply is done when it's done and even then it's never truly "done" because new events in your life and time passing spur you ever anew to see things in a kaleidoscopically different light. At least, that is what I am experiencing. Everything I am working through with K makes me revisit my two relationships before him, mistakes I made, misperceptions I had, etc. I do still struggle with how things were left between k and me, namely with feeling betrayed and emotionally (if no longer intellectually) confused, I.e., "I thought we were friends; I thought we really cared about each other," etc. Last Saturday I made eye contact with him for the first time at a state-wide sports tournament in which one of my relatives was participating. While trying to find a parking space, the parking cop waved me to stop so a truck could pull out and lo and behold it was K's truck. We looked right at each other and we both smiled, in the way any of us would do in that situation. Later that day when I was alone it hit me, and I was a hot mess the rest of the day. It just still hurts too much and I now know I cannot handle seeing him, unless, as I have said, he were to meaningfully and purposefully reach out. It's the seeming unlikely hood of that happening that hurts SO MUCH.

 

And so, I do my best to carry on. I keep trying to make my experience where I live meaningful, trying to make it home. At the same time I am considering the possibility of setting plans in motion to leave here. My intent is to leave here only if I have a very specific purpose--a specific career goal, for instance, that I can only achieve by moving someplace else.

 

I have NO INTEREST in dating. I just cannot conceive of opening myself up to someone. I do get sad when I think I may never get to have a family of my own, but I have some faith that, as Gatema said, I will meet someone when the time is right. Or, k will come back into my life a changed man. Have to put that out there in the spirit of total honesty because it is a wish and hope in which I struggle not to put too much stock.

 

How are you doing, Lala? How about you, BC1980? I hope that even if slowly, things continue to get better, for all of us. Hugs and good thoughts, everyone.

[BC1980]

Hey GC, glad to hear from you. I think seeing K in the parking lot would have been extremely difficult to process. That type of interaction highlights just how distant you two have become. I know that the first time I saw my ex at work was pretty difficult. You see this person with whom you shared such an intimacy and all of the functions of daily life, and, then, the person is reduced to someone you smile at in a parking lot. There's a lot to process in that scenario, though it is seemingly innocuous. For me, my ex was reduced to this person that walked by me, and I didn't even look at him to say hello. It saddened me and forced me to question what I believed about the permanence of relationships. I know you've dealt with the same stuff.

 

I think we all fear change, especially when it comes to our relationships. I fear my parents or my sister dying. I fear my best friend and I growing apart. I fear changing jobs because I like the people I work with. This breakup has magnified all of those fears because the person I trusted the most left me. Of course, it was foolish to trust him anyway, but I did. So I have to come at it from that POV. There are still times when I sit back and wonder how my ex became a person that I can't even stand to look at. Because I still remember those good times and those times that I wanted to be with him forever. And to contrast those memories to the present is bizarre in a way that I can't even begin to explain.

 

Good job on achieving your outdoor certification. That is no small feat! I'm right there with you in regards to dating. I just have no desire. I really want to concentrate on my personal goals and not actively seek a relationship. I see nothing wrong with that even if others find it odd.

[lala2001]

Still and always will love this thread... I'm okay GreenCove. Its still hard for me now that its almost a year since we broke up. July 29 to be exact. I have been having some hard days thinking "what if" and I just cant shake the I'm still in love with her feeling.... its awful. But nonethless a process... and one I know will carry on for a bit. How is everything with you? Missing seeing you on here. Hugs from San Diego.

[Zapbasket]

Hi lala2001,

 

Yeah, the anniversaries are hard, aren't they? Coming up on that one-year mark is a big deal because it forces you to come to terms all over again, and in a slightly new way, with the fact that it's over. It's also strange, because every month leading up to that first year feels endless, but once you can say, "It has been one year," it doesn't seem like much time at all. It certainly is grist for wondering, "What if?" Do you ever consider contacting her?

 

I'm coping okay. Though it does still really, really hurt. I imagine it always will. I still go through waves of intense sadness, and then anger. I know I deserve much better than to get drawn into a whole family with the expectation that there is some serious consideration towards marriage, only to be dropped without a care, like I never mattered, after three and a half years. K's mom and I haven't spoken in a while, and to be honest, I'm as relieved as I am sad. It's a strange and contradictory mix of feelings; I just feel like I want to put the whole thing far behind me and no longer have to act like this whole outcome, the whole way I was treated, is a-ok with me. Because it is not and never will be. I want better and I just don't want to be reminded of this mess more than I need to be.

 

The thing that hurts me a lot right now is that I'm going to be 39 in a few months, and here I am, not even seeing anyone, and...how do you construct a vision for your present and future at my age that accepts the possibility of never marrying or having children? What I want most is to set roots and watch what I've built grow, and it never was my vision to do it all alone. All around me, people are getting engaged, and while of course I'm happy for them, I can't help feeling sad, like the kid not picked for kickball on the playground. Just yesterday, one of my coworkers told me she had gotten engaged, and she showed me her beautiful ring, and while I gave her a heartfelt congratulations, I also felt my eyes begin to well with tears. I squeezed them back, but inside I just felt really down. And then, angry--at K, for wasting my time, and mostly at myself, for allowing my time to be wasted.

 

So in sum, I guess where I am now in coping is less, "How could he do this?" and more, "Given this is the reality, where do I go from here?"

 

I'm wishing you well as you approach the one-year mark. If it feels hard, know you can vent on here--on LS, of course, but also on this thread if you choose, and I'll try to help as best I can. Hugs to you all.

[JollyDays]

I feel the same as you. They say men shouldn't say these things, but, we worry about our legacies as well, and passing on ourselves in others. I'm about your age (37), coming up on 38 this Fall, no lady, no kids, and kind of a Lone Ranger. LOL If you dwell on it enough, it can make you extremely depressed. Sometimes, I think that my loneliness stems from a lack of a family and a family life that automatically comes from that. I feel so disconnected from people in my age group, and I have finally started thinking that perhaps I feel such a disconnectedness because I cant relate to being a parent like most adults---and in particular, most Gen X'ers.

 

 

Do I hate my exes, and all of the other women that have come into my life through the years? No I do not (well, some of them sucked monkey tits, but that's another discussion). Do I feel a sense of bitterness? I guess I do, yet, I played the biggest role in my being in this predicament. It wasn't like my exes kept me from meeting new ladies, and it wasn't like I didn't have chances to be in relationships with other women through the years. I guess I just felt jaded by my prior experiences. I haven't read all of your postings, so I will just say that I hope that jadedness hasn't taken over your soul.

 

 

I guess the obvious difference between you and I is that being a man means that I don't have a biological clock, so I feel for you (not to be patronizing). Have you ever thought about in-vitro fertilization? Okay, maybe too personal of a question. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Edited July 5, 2015 by JollyDays

[Zapbasket]

I feel the same as you. They say men shouldn't say these things, but, we worry about our legacies as well, and passing on ourselves in others. I'm about your age (37), coming up on 38 this Fall, no lady, no kids, and kind of a Lone Ranger. LOL If you dwell on it enough, it can make you extremely depressed. Sometimes, I think that my loneliness stems from a lack of a family and a family life that automatically comes from that. I feel so disconnected from people in my age group, and I have finally started thinking that perhaps I feel such a disconnectedness because I cant relate to being a parent like most adults---and in particular, most Gen X'ers.

 

 

Do I hate my exes, and all of the other women that have come into my life through the years? No I do not (well, some of them sucked monkey tits, but that's another discussion). Do I feel a sense of bitterness? I guess I do, yet, I played the biggest role in my being in this predicament. It wasn't like my exes kept me from meeting new ladies, and it wasn't like I didn't have chances to be in relationships with other women through the years. I guess I just felt jaded by my prior experiences. I haven't read all of your postings, so I will just say that I hope that jadedness hasn't taken over your soul.

 

 

I guess the obvious difference between you and I is that being a man means that I don't have a biological clock, so I feel for you (not to be patronizing). Have you ever thought about in-vitro fertilization? Okay, maybe too personal of a question. I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

Thanks, JollyDays. I'm kind-of a "Lone Ranger," too. I try to look at it this way: there are a lot of people our age trapped in unhappy lives and unhappy marriages, feeling unfulfilled and wondering, "What if?" Being single means you can do whatever it takes to build the life YOU want, without having to consider anyone else. And I know, I say it, too: "But I WANT to consider someone else!" But this is time we can use to strengthen ourselves and grow to love ourselves better, so that the "someone else" we do get the privilege of considering in the future will also, and equally, be considering us. At this point, I don't want anything else.

 

Also, I lucked out in that a bunch of my family has decided to come live nearby--it's still about an hours' drive, over a big mountain pass, but it means I finally have family near where I live. I want to believe that all of us are much less "Lone Rangers" than we might think.

 

I'm glad you brought up the issue of jadedness. This relationship and its aftermath was so traumatic for me that I have been finding it difficult to talk to men in general. I have this running inner dialogue in spite of myself: "Yeah, you think I'm pretty; you think I'm fun and I'm a curious person so I make you feel good by asking you about yourself, probably more so than anyone else asks about you...but when it comes down to it you'll end up finding me too much, because I'm philosophical, analytical, emotionally expressive, passionate about lots of things, athletic, outdoorsy, intellectual, artistic, and super-educated. And you won't be confident enough in yourself to feel you can keep up, and I WILL expect that you be a match for me, and you'll resent that, and then you'll throw me away because you're too much of a lazy, self-pitying azz to step up to the challenge. And you'll therefore never find out that if you were to step up, I'm much less of a challenge than you think. I'm loving, giving, fun, easy, spontaneous, and caring. So, since I know you don't begin to have the character strength I'm looking for, why should I bother talking to you?"

 

I'm just really over it. I hope it's not jadedness so much as me finally recognizing what I need in a partner and being, finally, unwilling to settle for less.

 

I dunno. I'm just talking out loud, imagining my lone ranger self meeting your lone ranger self for a good summer brew and commiserating. I have to believe it will get better for us. I've been working hard on myself, on trying to get as true to myself as I possibly can, on changing my patterns. Surely there will be a payoff to that, if nothing else, being content within myself. And it's only from self-content that you can create solid boundaries and a positive energy around you to attract people who care about YOUR best interests.

[BC1980]

I feel jaded too. I fear I will have a difficult time trusting anyone that I decide to date in the future. I think I use that as an excuse not to actively date at the moment. The questins I'm dealing with are: how far do you trust someone? Is it possible to trust someone fully? Is it even wise to put complete trust in someone?

[Gatema]

To BC1980 and GC.....

I think what happens is that we do become jaded to the possibilities of getting out there and meeting other men; taking risks, and enduring the challenges associated with random dating that it will some how cure our loneliness. It's a tough gig, no two ways around it. I'm not sure if I'm actually more jaded, or if I simply lack the motivation it takes to be an active participant to sit through the small talk, some coffee chats, or awkward dinners; giving someone a chance to woe me without prejudice; it's hard.

 

What I have found to be more painfully accurate ( at least for me) is that I find myself comparing my ex to the person that may, or may not be, potentially someone to date.

 

Upon the initial meeting I find myself becoming exhausted with the evaluation that I've silently done on them before our first hello. You know the drill: too much of this, too much of that; not enough of this, not enough of that. It's cyclical, and very much arrogant on my part, and I hate my conduct for being this way. But it's like a form of OCD that I can't seem to control. Once you have lived a charmed lifestyle, it's difficult to imagine yourself going backwards. Is that wrong?

 

Then out of sheer disappointment (in myself, mostly) I usually just throw my hands up and convince myself that this person would never work. I'm ashamed to admit it, and for thinking this way. I'm not at all proud of my shallowness.

 

Which in turn, makes me feel even more guilty for not being a more open person to the possibilities for meeting men. What happens then, is that my closed off attitude seems to repel people from interacting with me, and I appear to be totally unapproachable. It's my own fault and I own it; I don't like it, though.

 

So really, at the end of the day, there are no winners, but there's no losers, either. Self preservation trumps going out on a limb, almost every time for me. I guess each person has to make that decision for themselves. I think a person's age adds to the formula for the types of opportunities that are available. Just the number of social events that are held, with the number of men and women that will be attending these gatherings, significantly increases within an age group.

 

This is a youth driven society; nothing wrong with that.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Gatema

[Zapbasket]

I feel jaded too. I fear I will have a difficult time trusting anyone that I decide to date in the future. I think I use that as an excuse not to actively date at the moment. The questins I'm dealing with are: how far do you trust someone? Is it possible to trust someone fully? Is it even wise to put complete trust in someone?

 

I spent every free second I had at work today scouring my old threads for a great quote from RecordProducer on just this topic. I couldn't find it , but I'd copied it in one of my journals and my journals' landscape I know by rote, so I'll find it there. But the gist is (much less eloquently than RP put it): what's the purpose of our experience if we trust as openly as the first time?

 

And think of this, BC: We KNEW. Our instincts were right all along, which means we CAN trust those. We can trust ourselves. We just didn't listen before, because we lacked the confidence in our own perceptions. But now, don't you think that if it feels wrong, at minimum you'll speak up, and if nothing changes, you'll remove yourself from the situation? And if you're unsure, you have folks on here like me who will help keep you strong, as I hope you'll help keep me strong, when the time comes.

 

As for not dating, meh. I think we've both been through enough at this point that simple attraction just won't do it for us. I need MORE, and until I see a possibility of such, I'm busy living my life for ME, something I've not done enough of in the past, oh, friggin DECADE. Which is what led me to all this mess in the first place.

 

And yes, for me, there is some anger and bitterness, and hurt. I hate how I was treated. I hate that I stayed for 3.5 years in that situation. I hate how easily I was discarded. And it makes me so angry sometimes I want to go out into the woods and just kick trees to the ground. But I'm trying to take that anger and mobilize it towards proactive steps toward the life I want. This whole thing has hurt like f*ck, and I think it's right, for you as well as for me, to take some time to be fiercely, and maybe "overly," protective of ourselves.

 

Big hugs, girl. I know we can do it. I know we'll one day be on the other side of this. And those f*ckers we were with? They SUCK.

[BC1980]

One of my friends told me that I needed a new, positive experience with a man because this past experience is so entrenched in my mind. It's as if I have no other frame of reference.

 

You're right in that we did know, and I keep telling myself that. I distinctly remember one particular conversation wit my ex after about 1.5 years of dating. The constant feeling of never measuring up came to a head, and I asked him what he was trying to turn me into and when would it be enough. I should have left right then and there.

Edited July 7, 2015 by BC1980

[Zapbasket]

To BC1980 and GC.....

I think what happens is that we do become jaded to the possibilities of getting out there and meeting other men; taking risks, and enduring the challenges associated with random dating that it will some how cure our loneliness. It's a tough gig, no two ways around it. I'm not sure if I'm actually more jaded, or if I simply lack the motivation it takes to be an active participant to sit through the small talk, some coffee chats, or awkward dinners; giving someone a chance to woe me without prejudice; it's hard.

 

What I have found to be more painfully accurate ( at least for me) is that I find myself comparing my ex to the person that may, or may not be, potentially someone to date.

 

Upon the initial meeting I find myself becoming exhausted with the evaluation that I've silently done on them before our first hello. You know the drill: too much of this, too much of that; not enough of this, not enough of that. It's cyclical, and very much arrogant on my part, and I hate my conduct for being this way. But it's like a form of OCD that I can't seem to control. Once you have lived a charmed lifestyle, it's difficult to imagine yourself going backwards. Is that wrong?

 

Then out of sheer disappointment (in myself, mostly) I usually just throw my hands up and convince myself that this person would never work. I'm ashamed to admit it, and for thinking this way. I'm not at all proud of my shallowness.

 

Which in turn, makes me feel even more guilty for not being a more open person to the possibilities for meeting men. What happens then, is that my closed off attitude seems to repel people from interacting with me, and I appear to be totally unapproachable. It's my own fault and I own it; I don't like it, though.

 

So really, at the end of the day, there are no winners, but there's no losers, either. Self preservation trumps going out on a limb, almost every time for me. I guess each person has to make that decision for themselves. I think a person's age adds to the formula for the types of opportunities that are available. Just the number of social events that are held, with the number of men and women that will be attending these gatherings, significantly increases within an age group.

 

This is a youth driven society; nothing wrong with that.

 

That's the rub, isn't it--how can you be "sadder, but wiser" without being jaded? How can you be open and non-judgmental while effectively protecting yourself from hurt? To this latter question, I think the key is remembering that you can't 100% prevent hurt and disappointment where most things in life, especially relationships, are concerned. I'd love to believe that the next man I get involved with will be wonderful, that he'll prove through and through to be the great guy I've always hoped for. But the truth is, it's entirely possible I will get hurt again.

 

Perhaps it all just comes down to loving and fully trusting yourself. Meaning, if you're going on dates and finding yourself coming up with reasons for not going for it with a particular guy, maybe it's because your inner self knows that he is not the guy for you. Maybe he's a perfectly fine guy overall, but you're just not feeling it...and why shouldn't that be okay? Why should it mean, necessarily, that you are jaded?

 

I just have to believe that you'll know when you know--know what I mean? You'll get a feeling, you'll feel compelled to pursue. And then, as the "sadder, but wiser" person your experiences have ideally led you to become, and with the confidence and faith in yourself and your impressions that time alone spent learning to love yourself more have given you, you'll have the discernment to spot red flags early on, the self-confidence to address them, and to move away from the relationship if such action is called for.

 

Now, I speak as someone who is still young(ish) at 38, and so perhaps I don't see certain limitations that come with age, but I have to believe that the right match does not privilege youth any more than it privileges any other age group. Someone who is good for you won't be distracted by the allure of young women in his proximity. He may admire them, but he'll know that YOU nourish his being in the most meaningful aspects of the emotional, sexual, etc. He will be well enough developed emotionally to recognize that "love's not time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks beneath his bending sickle's compass come." And so he will be able to love you with the devotion and depth fitting for someone past middle age.

 

Of course, I don't "know" all this, but I do know it somewhere in my heart.

[Zapbasket]

One of my friends told me that I needed a new, positive experience with a man because this past experience is so entrenched in my mind. It's as if I have no other frame of reference.

 

I'm starting to think that the only true way to expand into a manifestation of the full possibilities for your being, is to experience a beautiful, nourishing love with another human being. It doesn't only have to take the form of romantic love; perhaps it could take almost any form. Of course, to have that love, you have to be whole unto yourself...otherwise it's too much like expecting a Prince Charming to walk into our lives and sweep us off our feet.

 

You're right in that we did know, and I keep telling myself that. I distinctly remember one particular conversation wit my ex after about 1.5 years of dating. The constant feeling of never measuring up came to a head, and I asked him what he was trying to turn me into and when would it be enough. I should have left right then and there.

 

Thanks for sharing this. It helped me realize that maybe that's it--that's our salvation: because you will have learned to love yourself truly by the time you are in your next relationship, you won't tolerate a constant feeling of never measuring up. You tolerated it in this last relationship because it reiterated your early experiences with your mom and thus validated certain archaic, negative beliefs you harbored about yourself. Hopefully you are beginning to unearth and to challenge those beliefs--I imagine you are--and so in the future, instead of the "not being enough" feeling RIGHT and FAMILIAR, it will feel WRONG and FOREIGN and therefore you will have zero motivation to accept it.

 

I mean, think back to the level of cognitive dissonance you experienced throughout that relationship. I also felt a constant drone of cognitive dissonance in my relationship with K, almost from the get-go. It's because we absolutely KNEW that elements of this relationship were not right for us. And I think we both tried to address it with our partners, but we both lacked the self-confidence to take action when the issues didn't begin to abate.

[lana-banana]

I'm starting to think that the only true way to expand into a manifestation of the full possibilities for your being, is to experience a beautiful, nourishing love with another human being. It doesn't only have to take the form of romantic love; perhaps it could take almost any form. Of course, to have that love, you have to be whole unto yourself...otherwise it's too much like expecting a Prince Charming to walk into our lives and sweep us off our feet.

 

I'm not so sure if I agree, if only because I recovered from my worst relationship by falling in love with humanity writ large. After a period of prolonged anhedonia, I rediscovered a lot of the classical music I loved growing up, and from there turned to my favorite philosophers, painters and authors---then dove headlong into finding new things. Something about experiencing such powerful works of art reminded me just how vast the human soul could be. I lost sight of my own problems and was dazzled by our ability to feel so much beauty, pleasure, and pain.

 

Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of days when I cried so hard I couldn't get out of bed. All of it sucked. But I was able to "find love" again just by opening myself up to the millions of kindred spirits who had come and gone before me. So perhaps we don't need someone else to heal; we just need to find that which motivates us to heal ourselves.

[Zapbasket]

I'm not so sure if I agree, if only because I recovered from my worst relationship by falling in love with humanity writ large. After a period of prolonged anhedonia, I rediscovered a lot of the classical music I loved growing up, and from there turned to my favorite philosophers, painters and authors---then dove headlong into finding new things. Something about experiencing such powerful works of art reminded me just how vast the human soul could be. I lost sight of my own problems and was dazzled by our ability to feel so much beauty, pleasure, and pain.

 

Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of days when I cried so hard I couldn't get out of bed. All of it sucked. But I was able to "find love" again just by opening myself up to the millions of kindred spirits who had come and gone before me. So perhaps we don't need someone else to heal; we just need to find that which motivates us to heal ourselves.

 

Oh, I'm with you 100%. And what you say is beautiful, by the way. I mean the love that becomes possible AFTER you heal, not the love you find in the process, or to help the process, of healing yourself. I mean that when you are you are whole in yourself, and find someone who is whole in himself or herself, the love that can become possible between two whole people must be such an increase to your soul. (Rushing out of the office so this is not articulated well, but I'm hoping you see that I meant something different from what originally came across. When you turn to love to heal your brokenness, chances are, the love is a broken kind of love, too.)