Fear I am not progressing well in coping, 2

[Zapbasket]

While you may have been suggesting to your ex that he should change his "bad behaviors", he had no self determination to actually follow through because he didn't see anything in it for him. This is no fault of yours. That being said, YOU have to learn to pick your battles.

 

The main "bad behavior" under which all his other "bad behaviors" fell was a fundamental disregard for my feelings. He loved to get under my skin, and not in a playful, teasing way, but in a way that poorly cloaked a lot of hostility, which he'd deny. Or he'd provoke me right in the middle of a serious conversation about dynamics in our relationship. Or he'd just be really irritable and if I called him out on it, he'd call me "difficult." I had to battle him just to be heard. I should have walked away, but I just could not imagine why anyone who held the keys to more peace so obviously in his hand (just stop the childish, irritating behavior!!!), and who SAID as often as he did that he wanted this relationship and saw a future with me (), would refuse to respect my feelings. It still baffles me, when I allow myself to think about it, because it wasn't some earth-shattering, deep fundamental change I was asking him to make, just to be more respectful and not get off on getting under my skin.

 

Basically, I spent over three years arguing with him over my right to be respected. I realize that never should have been a topic of debate to begin with. I still don't understand why he refused ever to respect my feelings, and I'm only beginning to understand why I'd engage in this battle rather than draw a hard line and walk away.

 

I assure you, GC, you did have a positive impact on his life, but you have to accept that your time is done. This is a great thing for you, because your relationship seemed unbalanced, and you probably did a lot more for him than he did for you, but he was too oblivious to realize it.

 

Yup. I recognize this to be absolutely true.

 

You need someone who appreciates you for what you can bring to the relationship, and has similar motivations and dreams. That way, you won't feel the need to "change" them. True relationship fulfillment comes from two complete individuals coming together in unity. You can only be responsible for you.

 

So true, and yet I am so scared because I have never had this!

Edited June 16, 2014 by GreenCove

[BC1980]

Basically, I spent over three years arguing with him over my right to be respected. I realize that never should have been a topic of debate to begin with. I still don't understand why he refused ever to respect my feelings, and I'm only beginning to understand why I'd engage in this battle rather than draw a hard line and walk away.

 

This sounds exactly like what I went through with my ex. The sad part is that he actually did have a lot of good qualities, and we had some great times together. I had a really difficult time reconciling his good qualities with his need to completely disregard any other person's wants, feelings, opinions, and needs. He would acknowledge another person's opinions or feelings, but he would claim they weren't as good as his. For example, if I was upset about something, it wasn't valid unless he said so, or I was just making too big a deal of it. It would be things as simple as me liking Diet Coke. He said that annoyed him, and it was in a such a condescending manner.

 

It was a recurring pattern that I noticed when I started journaling about my anger over the relationship. I noticed that it was a patten in his entire life. He treated others the same way, and he was mean spirited about it. He truly did love conditionally, and it doesn't matter what his other attributes were. It doesn't matter how much we had in common or how great the chemistry was. Fundamentally, at his core, he had unhealthy patterns in relationships and friendships. You can't change those kinds of things in people, and I don't see him changing himself. For one, he is nearly 50, and he sees no problem with the way he is. He's not going to change. He actually treated his son the same way, which was hard to watch.

 

For 3 years, I made excuses. I said his childhood was bad and his first wife died, so I would give him slack. I said that he had other good qualities, so I gave him slack. The end result is that my heart was broken after I invested a h*ll of a lot in him and our life together. Then, I had to walk away knowing I had not been true to myself. Letting him put me down and make me feel less than him. I'm sure the aftermath has been worse for me than him because I have been determined to chance. In doing so, I forced myself to look at my responsibility in the relationship, which was rarely comfortable. However, I now feel that I have much more control than I realized.

[Zapbasket]

My family is lazing about in bed this morning, DH introducing our 2-year old to the (apparently stoner classic) Bob Ross "The Joy of Painting" show while Baby #2 is kicking me in the ribs. I couldn't be happier.

 

Huge hugs and congrats on Baby #2, SSG!!! When is s/he due?

 

GC, you have to trust that you can, and will, get over K entirely. You're not going to live your life with an underlying current of regret and wistfulness, or feel like K was "the one who got away."

 

I don't know why I can't shake the hope/possibility that K has spent this past year deeply thinking about his behavior in our relationship and about where he wants to head in life, and has wrangled some genuine shifts in his thinking/behavior out of that. I really thought it would be much easier to let him go than it has been. I have never been more confused by a person than I was by him; maybe I confuse that confusion as love? But...I did love him. It all just seems like such a sad waste, that everything fell off to the lowest common denominator. I really hope you are right, that I won't view him as "the one who got away," because right now I miss him awfully. And it confuses me, especially because this is so deeply true even alongside the experience I had with him that I detailed in my response to elseaacych.

 

I admit I can't help wondering whether for him, I am "the one who got away." Though I guess for him to see it that way, he'd have to have one of those epiphanies we've talked about him most likely not having.

 

I guess what you're saying is that when I first experience a healthy, mutual relationship, it will feel so much better and more fulfilling than anything that came before it that whatever it is that I had with K will pale in comparison, so much so that a comparison will be moot.

 

It's just...what about for him? YES this is my big fat ego talking. If he's not on an epiphanic path to getting healthier, then how can he look forward to a healthy relationship in the future? Likewise with E.--it sounds like for both K and E, the only "better" in store for them is getting with someone too indifferent or insecure to call them out on their unavailability.

[Zapbasket]

This is the normal tough stuff of transitioning from being intimates to being strangers. I went through it 4 times before DH. You will eventually be able to accept it, even though it may also feel strange to have known this person so well at one point in time whereas today they might as well be dead they are so absent from your life. That's just a normal human experience.

 

What do I make of the fact that I have SUCH a hard time with this aspect of human experience, so much so that I am not sure I can accept it? What I mean is, I feel like K just threw it all away, that if he had found it in himself to be present for the relationship at least at the point where we could have gone to counseling, we could have at least made it so that we wouldn't necessarily be out of each others' lives altogether, even if we were no longer romantic partners.

 

Though perhaps this is just me not being okay with goodbyes, generally.

 

You should have seen E. the day he broke up with me. I've never seen him cry like that, admit he's all messed up, admit he did me wrong, tell me he's confused and that he'll finally call a therapist. Wow!!! He was finally having his epiphany, realizing what he's throwing away!!!

 

Guess what? He slept with the other woman 24 hours later and he never looked back. My best guess is that he was either saying whatever he needed to to try to blunt the breakup blow to me, or maybe at some surface level he did agree he needed help, but in the vein of people who say stuff like, "Yeah, I really watch too much TV!" with no intention whatsoever of actually making a change.

 

It's not that confusing when you remind yourself that talk really is cheap, GC. A lot of people say things they don't mean.

 

Thank you for this. It is a good reminder that talk IS cheap, and that even emotionally closed off people hate having to face the pain they've caused another person (note how I have structured this sentence. I really think it's more that they don't want to have to face it than that they don't want to cause unnecessary pain). E and K said whatever they had to appeal to our logic ("I need to figure out what's tripping me up" [K]; "I need to see a counselor" [E]) so that they didn't have to address our pain and confusion. Once they took care of the break-up, they were free to do what appealed to THEIR logic: sleep with hooch [E]; quit going to therapy [K]. It just goes to show, as well, how little of their true selves they ever really revealed to us. K, for instance, clearly did not feel he was as "lost and confused" in his life and regarding us as he made himself out to be; he just said it because he knew it was how I viewed him, my explanation for his 3+ years-long inertia.

 

Their real selves were under wraps...quite probably even from them.

[Zapbasket]

I had a really difficult time reconciling his good qualities with his need to completely disregard any other person's wants, feelings, opinions, and needs. He would acknowledge another person's opinions or feelings, but he would claim they weren't as good as his. For example, if I was upset about something, it wasn't valid unless he said so, or I was just making too big a deal of it. It would be things as simple as me liking Diet Coke. He said that annoyed him, and it was in a such a condescending manner.

 

That's some pretty self-esteem-damaging stuff. Did anyone ever suggest to you that perhaps your ex had some narcissistic qualities? Not necessarily full-blown NPD, but some traits along that spectrum?

 

I'm so sorry you went through this with him. I really identify with your confusion: with my ex, you could just SEE him brimming with all these promising qualities that could help make everything between you so amazing, but then there was this ONE thing.... And unfortunately that ONE thing was a major character flaw that by definition makes the realization of these promising things impossible. It sounds similar to what you experienced with your ex, and it's so, so hard to wrap your head around something like that.

 

My therapist said you can be broken, but still healthy in how you are in relationships, or, you can be unhealthy. He said that I may be broken, but I am healthy in that I bring the right positive qualities to my relationships. He said that K was unhealthy, meaning that he wasn't capable of bringing the kind of consistency and presence that a relationship needs to thrive. So I take that to mean that we, who are broken yet healthy, are looking at this unhealthy individual and not understanding what is blocking them from being the wonderful partners they seem so very capable of being. Does that strike a chord?

 

Fundamentally, at his core, he had unhealthy patterns in relationships and friendships. You can't change those kinds of things in people, and I don't see him changing himself. For one, he is nearly 50, and he sees no problem with the way he is. He's not going to change. He actually treated his son the same way, which was hard to watch.

 

From an outsider's point of view, it really sounds like you dodged a bullet. He would have eroded your self-esteem over the years, so much so that eventually you'd not even be aware of what you'd lost. Just that something would never feel right...and after a long enough period of time, you'd end up learning to ignore that feeling, too. He sounds like he lacks empathy in a very fundamental way.

 

For 3 years, I made excuses. I said his childhood was bad and his first wife died, so I would give him slack. I said that he had other good qualities, so I gave him slack. The end result is that my heart was broken after I invested a h*ll of a lot in him and our life together. Then, I had to walk away knowing I had not been true to myself. Letting him put me down and make me feel less than him.

 

I identify so strongly with everything you say here, BC1980. This is something I'm asking myself, too: what are you going to be sure you do to prevent ever falling into this pattern again? When your compassion and empathy kick in with explanations for a person's questionable or outright bad behavior, what will you do differently? It's so hard to reroute tendencies amidst all the attraction and excitement a new romantic prospect brings.

[sunshinegirl]

Huge hugs and congrats on Baby #2, SSG!!! When is s/he due?

 

Thanks! Late October.

 

I don't know why I can't shake the hope/possibility that K has spent this past year deeply thinking about his behavior in our relationship and about where he wants to head in life, and has wrangled some genuine shifts in his thinking/behavior out of that. I really thought it would be much easier to let him go than it has been. I have never been more confused by a person than I was by him; maybe I confuse that confusion as love? But...I did love him. It all just seems like such a sad waste, that everything fell off to the lowest common denominator. I really hope you are right, that I won't view him as "the one who got away," because right now I miss him awfully. And it confuses me, especially because this is so deeply true even alongside the experience I had with him that I detailed in my response to elseaacych.

 

I will take a stab at this though it is getting into some pretty woo-woo stuff that your therapist is in a better position to help you sort through.

 

I have 2 hypotheses about you may be struggling so badly with this:

 

(1) You are still operating out of a mindset that I had - when you've had a messed up childhood in one way or another, you choose what you know (brokenness in one form or another), you try to "win over" the broken guy, indeed helping him transform into a not-broken guy, and by his changing, thereby heal your deeper wounds and prove that you are lovable and worthy of such effort. Even though lived experience says actual broken people almost never change their fundamental stripes, you continue to indulge this magical thinking because you haven't worked through your family of origin stuff.

 

(2) You are grieving K so much harder than past relationships because at some level you thought he was your last/best chance at "The One." And so you're grieving not only the loss of a single relationship but a perceived loss of an entire future that you want to have and that may now feel gone forever. (It's not, by the way, even if you're having trouble seeing that.)

 

Do either of these ring true for you?

 

I admit I can't help wondering whether for him, I am "the one who got away." Though I guess for him to see it that way, he'd have to have one of those epiphanies we've talked about him most likely not having.

 

...

 

It's just...what about for him? YES this is my big fat ego talking. If he's not on an epiphanic path to getting healthier, then how can he look forward to a healthy relationship in the future?

 

This is all related to my first hypothesis above. Of course, everyone feels an ego hit when a relationship ends. "What? This person doesn't think I am awesome? How can that be? I mean, have you met me?" But in your case (and mine) these losses are connected to such deeper prior losses and hurts that they take on an outsize importance, almost like we NEED them to look back and think of us as the one that got away, because otherwise, maybe we're not actually lovable or worthy at all, just like how our dad or mom or sibling or whomever seemed not to love us.

 

See how deep this stuff goes?

[Zapbasket]

I have 2 hypotheses about you may be struggling so badly with this:

 

(1) You are still operating out of a mindset that I had - when you've had a messed up childhood in one way or another, you choose what you know (brokenness in one form or another), you try to "win over" the broken guy, indeed helping him transform into a not-broken guy, and by his changing, thereby heal your deeper wounds and prove that you are lovable and worthy of such effort. Even though lived experience says actual broken people almost never change their fundamental stripes, you continue to indulge this magical thinking because you haven't worked through your family of origin stuff.

 

(2) You are grieving K so much harder than past relationships because at some level you thought he was your last/best chance at "The One." And so you're grieving not only the loss of a single relationship but a perceived loss of an entire future that you want to have and that may now feel gone forever. (It's not, by the way, even if you're having trouble seeing that.)

 

Do either of these ring true for you?

 

Yes, I think both of them ring true. I keep getting tripped up by this feeling that this outcome to my relationship with K. is so dissonant to me because of this bond I felt we had. I still feel it, and it puts me in this awful, weak place of wandering around after a rude awakening and saying, "But...I don't understand!" It's gotten so debilitating that every time it overtakes me, I consciously determine to do something for ME. Last night, for instance, I drove to a beautiful spot by a reservoir and wrote out a vision of what my ideal life would look like, with or without a life partner.

 

I've said numerous times over the years that I felt like I was "dating two K's: one who was sweet and pleasant to be around, and one who seemed determined to be belittling, irritable, and insidious." I think the "bond" I have felt is to the first K. But what I keep missing is that people aren't cleanly divisible into their divergent parts like slices of pie. The "two K's" were all tangled into one, and that's why it was futile to try to hold on to the "good" part and try to change the "bad." Everyone has "good" and "bad," and part of loving someone is to love both sides...but the difference with K (and people like him) is that his "bad" made a functional relationship impossible without some kind of serious therapeutic intervention. Period. I did not, or refused to see this and stuck to a poor, and poorly formulated investment. Whatever "bond" I had with the "good" K, the "bad" K destroyed--THAT right there was the nature of his issues, of his individual brand of "bad." THAT was why the relationship was destined never to work out.

 

Until this moment, I'd not thought of things this way.

 

This is all related to my first hypothesis above. Of course, everyone feels an ego hit when a relationship ends. "What? This person doesn't think I am awesome? How can that be? I mean, have you met me?" But in your case (and mine) these losses are connected to such deeper prior losses and hurts that they take on an outsize importance, almost like we NEED them to look back and think of us as the one that got away, because otherwise, maybe we're not actually lovable or worthy at all, just like how our dad or mom or sibling or whomever seemed not to love us.

 

See how deep this stuff goes?

 

Yes. It does go beyond ego and to early experiences. It's HIS loss, not mine, if he doesn't view me as someone he should have made more effort to hold on to. Why indeed should I, or anyone in this position, absorb it as being about ME?

[elseaacych]

Yes. It does go beyond ego and to early experiences. It's HIS loss, not mine, if he doesn't view me as someone he should have made more effort to hold on to. Why indeed should I, or anyone in this position, absorb it as being about ME?

 

You make it about you to protect yourself. To some extent, there is something you don't know about him... that is uncontrollable. But you control you. And it's easier to reflect on yourself and remind yourself of your good qualities that make you lovable.

 

There comes a point after you reach the end of the relationship, after you reflect on everything objectively, as well as talk to family and friends who have stories of relationships, good and bad, where you will have a pretty good idea who contributed MOST to the downfall. If you made some mistakes here and there, but tried your hardest to maintain a balanced relationship, you can't beat yourself up. You can learn from your mistakes, yes, so you know where you can do better. But if it was an objectively unbalanced relationship (to the point where passing acquaintances express that it was such), you have to make it about you. It is no longer about "him and you", it is about you. You have to remind yourself of your worth as an individual, through whatever contributions you make to your world.

 

Certainly, you do something that only you can do, and people appreciate that about you. And you have other good, strong, stronger relationships than you had with this loser. You just may need to rekindle them.

[Zapbasket]

You make it about you to protect yourself. To some extent, there is something you don't know about him... that is uncontrollable. But you control you. And it's easier to reflect on yourself and remind yourself of your good qualities that make you lovable.

 

There comes a point after you reach the end of the relationship, after you reflect on everything objectively, as well as talk to family and friends who have stories of relationships, good and bad, where you will have a pretty good idea who contributed MOST to the downfall. If you made some mistakes here and there, but tried your hardest to maintain a balanced relationship, you can't beat yourself up. You can learn from your mistakes, yes, so you know where you can do better. But if it was an objectively unbalanced relationship (to the point where passing acquaintances express that it was such), you have to make it about you. It is no longer about "him and you", it is about you. You have to remind yourself of your worth as an individual, through whatever contributions you make to your world.

 

Certainly, you do something that only you can do, and people appreciate that about you. And you have other good, strong, stronger relationships than you had with this loser. You just may need to rekindle them.

 

It's true: the relationship went on for as long as it did because I picked up his slack, time and again. Not only I, but also his mother--she felt the need to constantly interfere in our relationship by pulling me aside and working me over to get me to accept his need to get under my skin as just him being "playful." As one example, when I tried to give her an example of how his "playful" behavior was in fact relationship sabotage and not playful at all by telling her how he deliberately poured water in my lap during a major relationship discussion ABOUT THIS VERY BEHAVIOR, she said, "Well, he was just outside his comfort zone." It has only been in recent months that it dawned on me she felt the need to interfere because on some level she felt she could not trust her son not to f*ck everything up between us. Because at other times she fully acknowledged the extent of the problem, and once a year ago she finally admitted that he had been this way since early childhood, tormenting his younger sister until she would either cry or yell to get him to stop.

 

I think the fact that I always picked up his slack, along with his mother, is why it feels so insane that this relationship failed; I think to myself, "But...I WORKED SOOOO HARD; HOW COULD IT HAVE FAILED?" It failed because he never lifted a finger. It's as I said to him in the relationship's very beginning: "It's like you're here, but you're not really here." At the time I meant relating to where we lived, but really that observation fit him to a tee in every other respect, as well. I don't know HOW I ever thought I could manage to overcome something like that. That's HIS work, which he refused to do.

 

Just...UGH.

[sunshinegirl]

It's true: the relationship went on for as long as it did because I picked up his slack, time and again. Not only I, but also his mother--she felt the need to constantly interfere in our relationship by pulling me aside and working me over to get me to accept his need to get under my skin as just him being "playful." As one example, when I tried to give her an example of how his "playful" behavior was in fact relationship sabotage and not playful at all by telling her how he deliberately poured water in my lap during a major relationship discussion ABOUT THIS VERY BEHAVIOR, she said, "Well, he was just outside his comfort zone." It has only been in recent months that it dawned on me she felt the need to interfere because on some level she felt she could not trust her son not to f*ck everything up between us. Because at other times she fully acknowledged the extent of the problem, and once a year ago she finally admitted that he had been this way since early childhood, tormenting his younger sister until she would either cry or yell to get him to stop.

 

I think the fact that I always picked up his slack, along with his mother, is why it feels so insane that this relationship failed; I think to myself, "But...I WORKED SOOOO HARD; HOW COULD IT HAVE FAILED?" It failed because he never lifted a finger. It's as I said to him in the relationship's very beginning: "It's like you're here, but you're not really here." At the time I meant relating to where we lived, but really that observation fit him to a tee in every other respect, as well. I don't know HOW I ever thought I could manage to overcome something like that. That's HIS work, which he refused to do.

 

Just...UGH.

 

The way you wrote the above just sounds so painful. As to the bolded sentence, my first thought was: "It's insane that the relationship got as far as it did -- how could it NOT have failed?!" He had not one, but two women trying to do his work for him.

[Zapbasket]

The way you wrote the above just sounds so painful. As to the bolded sentence, my first thought was: "It's insane that the relationship got as far as it did -- how could it NOT have failed?!" He had not one, but two women trying to do his work for him.

 

Sadly, it got as far as it did because of the combined efforts of his family (everyone played a role but it was fueled by his mom) and [mostly] me. It's really sad to see how I am so adept at filling in any and all relationship gaps due to the other person's emotional unavailability, lack of personal accountability--even (I mean, who knows???) lack of love for me or care whether the relationship continues or not. I could probably even figure out how to carry a "relationship" with a corpse, I am so expert at filling absence with presence, because--yes--I had to do so much of that growing up.

 

It's only recently that I've begun to see just how much not only his mother, but his whole family, enables K. They have never held him accountable for anything; no wonder he prefers to continue living in his parents' garage apartment, where, at almost 39 years old, he has lived for almost the entirety of his thirties. Why venture out into the world again (he did live abroad for 5 years, working for a scientific institute--which is why for the life of me I could not understand how he could go from such promising, adventurous beginnings to this intractable quagmire), where you are held accountable for your every move? As his own mother said, if he wanted to stop working the blue-collar job he claimed to hate so much, he would. Likewise, if he saw anything amiss with living in his parents' garage apartment for most of his 30's, he would change it. He knows he has it too good right where he is, in NeverNeverland where he gets to be Peter Pan.

 

And this is good to begin to see, because it means that although his family IS a collection of truly good people whom I loved and got on so well with, to have been married into that family, to K., would have meant that I'd have to join this club of enablers and no one would have taken my part when the relationship inevitably would have gotten too difficult to bear. I would be EXPECTED to shoulder his burden and be "cool" with it; no one would get after K to pull more weight.

 

Because, as it occurred to me just over the last couple of weeks: why, in all these years, did K's mom not spend her energy getting after HIM to be more respectful, rather than cajoling ME to tolerate his disrespect? I mean, he's HER son; he's FAMILY; so wouldn't that have made more sense? I think she worked ME because she felt I was capable of being more adaptable than he was...and because this kept to the established pattern of not placing any expectations on K.

 

This would have been a very difficult, nay, depleting, dynamic for me to sustain through a marriage.

[Zapbasket]

Gah. It makes me feel crazy that I can type the above, see the content and know its truth to be 100%, and my next feeling is this wave of sadness that it didn't work out, and this wish that it all could have been different, if only K had done ______ (basically, become a different person). Never in my life have I been in such a confusing situation, with such a profoundly confusing (to me) person. I can't help wondering whether he will be confusing to every woman, or if there is a woman out there who will completely "get" him...and still be able to carry on a long-term relationship with him.

 

And, I know, I know: WHO CARES.

[BC1980]

Gah. It makes me feel crazy that I can type the above, see the content and know its truth to be 100%, and my next feeling is this wave of sadness that it didn't work out, and this wish that it all could have been different, if only K had done ______ (basically, become a different person). Never in my life have I been in such a confusing situation, with such a profoundly confusing (to me) person. I can't help wondering whether he will be confusing to every woman, or if there is a woman out there who will completely "get" him...and still be able to carry on a long-term relationship with him.

 

And, I know, I know: WHO CARES.

 

I get it completely. My ex was the most confusing person I've dealt with. He also sought advice from others about our relationship, mainly his sister. I didn't realize how deep it went until the day he broke up with me. He said he has talked on the phone to his sister to realize if he should leave me and to figure out why he felt he didn't want to get married anymore.

 

He was so profoundly out of touch with his emotions.

[Zapbasket]

 

He was so profoundly out of touch with his emotions.

 

Yeah, and I'm so freaking sick of these types of people. Seriously, I think they should just be shot and here's why: by being "out of touch," it forces everyone around them to accommodate to all that they are NOT doing. Some of us--like me, mountainbiker, BC1980, Sunshinegirl before her hard work to change--are more susceptible to playing this role, but I think all of us unconsciously do this to some degree. It's like the coworker who never really gets anything done, or done well. People start to notice, and rather than wait for that person to flounder through another task, they just take on the task themselves, and it becomes "normal" because everyone collectively comes to expect little to nothing from the lazy/inadequate coworker.

 

I hate these people because life is just one big excuse on their behalf. They're "out of touch with their emotions" and so therefore they can't have any empathy and so they can just drop out of attachments, blissfully unaware of how their behavior has affected the other person while the other person fairly reels with hurt and confusion. These people are spared that knowledge because of their "condition."

 

They are PUSSIES. God damn it. I am so angry I would like to personally tie hot coals to their genitalia until they freaking FEEL something. Amazing how a really awful experience can do that, huh? Finally put you "in touch" with your emotions?

 

Sorry, I'm just really sick of how untouchable these people seem to be. They make me wish I truly were an evil b*tch so that my pure cruelty could actually get to them, and wake them up emotionally, because Lord knows love means nothing to them. :mad:

[Zapbasket]

And on a personal note, per the post above I'm riled up because my sports class was cancelled this evening and I was getting home earlier than usual, which meant I had time to make it to this specialty store in my neighborhood that usually is closed by the time I get home. So I start down the road, la la la, to the store, and BAM! There is the big fat azzwipe's truck parked right in front of the store. Of course I don't go in, then, and it gets me wondering, WHAT IF? What if I walked in there and acted like Miss Cool Cucumber and said, "Hey, K." before going about my business?

 

Of course, I couldn't manage to do that, so of course, I didn't go in, and in another, similar circumstance, I wouldn't force an encounter. But I so hate that it has to be this way.

 

What a freaking butt-biscuit. :mad:

[elseaacych]

It's hard when you have to reconcile emotions that totally conflict: "I love him so so much" v. "This dickwad did very little for me in the course of my relationship that I want him to hurt. I am so angry that I let myself get in this deep."

 

The only thing you can do, GC, is give it time, and you have to consciously remind yourself almost every ten minutes that it's over, you want it to be over, and that it will continue to be over, because you have so many better options out there. Take solace in the fact that that you are in touch with your emotions, and that objectively, you have the capacity to be in a loving relationship.

[BC1980]

Yeah, and I'm so freaking sick of these types of people. Seriously, I think they should just be shot and here's why: by being "out of touch," it forces everyone around them to accommodate to all that they are NOT doing. Some of us--like me, mountainbiker, BC1980, Sunshinegirl before her hard work to change--are more susceptible to playing this role, but I think all of us unconsciously do this to some degree. It's like the coworker who never really gets anything done, or done well. People start to notice, and rather than wait for that person to flounder through another task, they just take on the task themselves, and it becomes "normal" because everyone collectively comes to expect little to nothing from the lazy/inadequate coworker.

 

I hate these people because life is just one big excuse on their behalf. They're "out of touch with their emotions" and so therefore they can't have any empathy and so they can just drop out of attachments, blissfully unaware of how their behavior has affected the other person while the other person fairly reels with hurt and confusion. These people are spared that knowledge because of their "condition."

 

They are PUSSIES. God damn it. I am so angry I would like to personally tie hot coals to their genitalia until they freaking FEEL something. Amazing how a really awful experience can do that, huh? Finally put you "in touch" with your emotions?

 

Sorry, I'm just really sick of how untouchable these people seem to be. They make me wish I truly were an evil b*tch so that my pure cruelty could actually get to them, and wake them up emotionally, because Lord knows love means nothing to them. :mad:

 

The hard part for me was knowing that he genuinely felt he did no wrong. I mean, he had a little guilt, but he truly felt he was not at fault. He would depersonalize when he talked about the breakup, saying things like, "I'm sorry it turned out this way" or "you got the shock of your life." He never implicated himself or admitted that he had made conscious decisions that led to certain consequences. That's when it really hit home for me. He wanted to detach quickly and take little blame. The breakup was just this unfortunate event that happened. Absolutely no attempt to admit any personal responsibility.

 

It's frustrating, but the only thing you can do is realize that it doesn't matter. I'm responsible for my emotional health and can take responsibility for my decisions. I can't be responsible for someone else, and it's not my job to set them straight or make them see their wrongs. That would be a huge burden, and I realized that I was so exhausted because I has been doing that. I was carrying the load for two people. It was actually a huge weight off my shoulders once I let that go and made peace with it. I simply wanted him to be someone he was not.

[Zapbasket]

It's hard when you have to reconcile emotions that totally conflict: "I love him so so much" v. "This dickwad did very little for me in the course of my relationship that I want him to hurt. I am so angry that I let myself get in this deep."

 

That's exactly it. I keep getting frustrated with myself that I'll have these angry or even sometimes entirely dispassionate mini-epiphanies lately of ways K was not and is not someone suitable for the kind of relationship I ever wanted--and then I expect to feel some resulting alleviation of the heartache, but instead I feel heartache, feel I miss him, feel confused by the bond I *thought* and *felt* we had between us but that clearly, given this outcome, was not there.

 

The only thing you can do, GC, is give it time, and you have to consciously remind yourself almost every ten minutes that it's over, you want it to be over, and that it will continue to be over, because you have so many better options out there. Take solace in the fact that that you are in touch with your emotions, and that objectively, you have the capacity to be in a loving relationship.

 

Right now the bolded is pure blind hope. I notice guys really noticing me lately, which suggests I'm walking around looking a little less sad. But no one I've interacted with has stirred one iota of attraction in me. I can't shake this fear: what if I have no options? In fact, I even checked a dating site, just out of curiosity, and within a 50-mile radius of where I live, there are exactly 70 guys who don't smoke, have undergraduate degrees, and are taller than me (my three most basic requirements). Since I live in a rural area, the "50-mile" radius ends up being 75 to 100 miles or more, so when you subtract out the people you'd have to drive over an hour to see, it leaves me with exactly 33 dudes. Of these, only about 15-20 are regularly active on the site...and one of THOSE is my freaking ex. This was the site, as well, that had the most guys from my area who fit my three basic criteria. And of the 15-20, subtract out the un-filled-out profiles or profiles where the dude can't seem to manage to string together a cogent sentence or say something about himself beyond, "I love the outdoors," which, given we all live in the mountains in a resort community, is pretty DUHHHH, and I'm left with maybe four guys that seem remotely worth contacting. Paying for a subscription to get in touch with four guys? NOT worth it. And add to the fact that my ex actually would make it to a top 5 in terms of actually filling out a profile and, aside from a problem with when to use apostrophes, one that is reasonably grammatically correct, and I KNOW what kind of anti-catch he is, and I just feel really about my prospects.

[Zapbasket]

The hard part for me was knowing that he genuinely felt he did no wrong. I mean, he had a little guilt, but he truly felt he was not at fault. He would depersonalize when he talked about the breakup, saying things like, "I'm sorry it turned out this way" or "you got the shock of your life." He never implicated himself or admitted that he had made conscious decisions that led to certain consequences. That's when it really hit home for me. He wanted to detach quickly and take little blame. The breakup was just this unfortunate event that happened. Absolutely no attempt to admit any personal responsibility.

 

Ugh, maddening! I find myself wishing that people could be prosecuted for behavior like this.

 

It's frustrating, but the only thing you can do is realize that it doesn't matter. I'm responsible for my emotional health and can take responsibility for my decisions. I can't be responsible for someone else, and it's not my job to set them straight or make them see their wrongs. That would be a huge burden, and I realized that I was so exhausted because I has been doing that. I was carrying the load for two people. It was actually a huge weight off my shoulders once I let that go and made peace with it. I simply wanted him to be someone he was not.

 

Once again, I don't know how you manage to keep such a level perspective, BC1980. I hope you give yourself lots of credit.

 

I have to really talk myself hard into a perspective like this, and it starts crumbling almost immediately. I spent three-plus years trying to make my ex see how his behavior was destroying our relationship and hurting me. I simply could not understand or accept how he could not recognize it, and when there were glimmers of recognition, how he could not feel a lick of motivation to try to change. It was almost like my efforts to make him see only justified his behavior more, in his mind, which in turn made me just insane with frustration. It all started to feel like those inane, illogical dialogues Alice has with the characters in Alice in Wonderland.

 

NEVER AGAIN. And: it doesn't matter now. I hate how the dynamics of the relationship still, all these months later, can get me so riled up, how easily I can rehash it all because I'm still trying to "figure it all out" when really, isn't it all obvious by now?

 

It is going on 10 months now since we broke up, 8 months since our last, and final, communication, and I really feel like I should be further along while also feeling like I'm doing the best I can. I still don't feel remotely like getting out there and dating; I feel too vulnerable and hurt and unsure of myself. Is that bad?

[BC1980]

After a breakup, everyone think we will never find anyone else. It's a totally normal thought process that is not at all uncommon. Right now, I'm trying to work on myself mostly. I've taken all the pressure off to find someone else right now.

[me85]

It's frustrating, but the only thing you can do is realize that it doesn't matter. I'm responsible for my emotional health and can take responsibility for my decisions. I can't be responsible for someone else, and it's not my job to set them straight or make them see their wrongs. That would be a huge burden, and I realized that I was so exhausted because I has been doing that. I was carrying the load for two people. It was actually a huge weight off my shoulders once I let that go and made peace with it. I simply wanted him to be someone he was not.

 

 

 

Absolutely. So. True.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel and exactly what I came to realize.

 

 

It doesn't matter. They are their own person. They are who they are and there is nothing we can do to change them.

 

 

I do feel a lot better now since I sat and thought long and hard about the differences between us. Although, it is really bitter sweet because we are so very much alike but then so very different at the same time.

 

 

The best part is I'm not even angry about it anymore. Why be mad??

I did my best, I loved him all the way, I forgave and forgave...why would I carry resentment for him just because he didn't want to be with me anymore??

 

 

What good is that?

 

 

I'm just relieved more than anything. I'm such a follow-through, never give up-type of person that I may have stayed in that miserable situation (probably forever) if he would not have ended it first.

[BC1980]

Once again, I don't know how you manage to keep such a level perspective, BC1980. I hope you give yourself lots of credit.

 

I have to really talk myself hard into a perspective like this, and it starts crumbling almost immediately. I spent three-plus years trying to make my ex see how his behavior was destroying our relationship and hurting me. I simply could not understand or accept how he could not recognize it, and when there were glimmers of recognition, how he could not feel a lick of motivation to try to change. It was almost like my efforts to make him see only justified his behavior more, in his mind, which in turn made me just insane with frustration. It all started to feel like those inane, illogical dialogues Alice has with the characters in Alice in Wonderland.

 

NEVER AGAIN. And: it doesn't matter now. I hate how the dynamics of the relationship still, all these months later, can get me so riled up, how easily I can rehash it all because I'm still trying to "figure it all out" when really, isn't it all obvious by now?

 

It is going on 10 months now since we broke up, 8 months since our last, and final, communication, and I really feel like I should be further along while also feeling like I'm doing the best I can. I still don't feel remotely like getting out there and dating; I feel too vulnerable and hurt and unsure of myself. Is that bad?

 

It took months for me to understand the dynamic that existed between us. I knew the truth in my heart, but I was so stubborn when it came to admitting it. I'm only now getting to a place where it doesn't matter anymore. Trust me, I still feel pretty hurt over the entire thing, but I don't dwell on it anymore. If I kept thinking about it, I'm sure it would snowball into rage, sadness, and any other myriad of emotions. For months and months, I redirected my thoughts to how I can use this knowledge for good and move on from it. It eventually did become easier, but there were times that I worried I would never move past the sadness.

 

Also, I don't think it's realistic to never feel some hurt over the entire thing. I've realized that I'm not responsible for my ex, but it doesn't stop me from wishing he could have changed. Those feelings don't just disappear, but they have gotten much less intense. I've come to a place where I have pretty much accepted that, for better or worse, he is who he is, and the net result was that the relationship could not continue. Those realizations don't make me happy, but I have come to a point of acceptance where I've been able to move on from it. It simply doesn't carry as much weight with my anymore because I'm very much into planning for my future and being the best I can be. It's been a slow process though, and it can get frustrating.

[Zapbasket]

I've come to a place where I have pretty much accepted that, for better or worse, he is who he is, and the net result was that the relationship could not continue. Those realizations don't make me happy, but I have come to a point of acceptance where I've been able to move on from it. It simply doesn't carry as much weight with my anymore because I'm very much into planning for my future and being the best I can be. It's been a slow process though, and it can get frustrating.

 

Re: the bolded bit, that's the change I've noticed come over me over the past several months. It now is clear enough what he did/could and did not / could not bring to the relationship that I know I CANNOT be in a relationship with him even if a reconciliation were on offer. In his last communication to me he said, "I cannot give you what you want." Now, I know this to be true not because he said so but because I recognize that for myself. My illusions have been sufficiently stripped away at this point that I do not need him to tell me this fact to know it to be true.

 

Now that this fact arises from within ME, it leaves me to feel full-throttle the deep disappointment in him that I fought against all these months in the name of "hope." I tried so hard to kill the hope but I suppose it had to die on its own time. I think discovering him on the dating site over a month ago (May 8) served as a big catalyst for that death.

 

There is no hope. He was not and is not what I need, and he realized that before I did. Again, not for the reasons that we would agree upon--yet another reason why this can't work out.

 

His mom called me, said she loved me; it's been a week and I haven't been able to return her call because of all the feelings swirling in me. The disappointment in having to recognize him as so much less than he was. I want to be able to say to her, "My feelings about YOU have not changed. But my feelings about him have changed such that I know you and I cannot possibly be on the same page and I just need to move on without any reminders of all that this relationship was not and could never have been."

 

I feel a tremendous amount of anger right now. That's the stage I'm in.

[Zapbasket]

I owe K's mom a phone call. She called me over a week ago. I want to tell her that I need some time of no contact with her because I'm really struggling to work through my breakup with her son. I had wanted to tell her this in person, but in her message to me she said she was out of town with her grandchildren this weekend, and then her dad is having knee surgery on Monday.

 

I could just not return her call, but then I fear it sends either a) no message at all or b) a message that I'm pulling away and she might think, if it's the latter, that I'm "over it." I want to be sure she knows that I love her and do want a relationship with her one day, but after some time has passed. Selfishly, I also want to let her know how hard this breakup has been for me, and that it is still hard and that's why I can't stay in contact right now. The selfish part is that I want her to feel a little bit of guilt on behalf of her son...and maybe I want the news to get back to him, too. Because I just bet he has convinced himself that I have moved on, in order to alleviate any guilt or feeling that he was a jerk.

 

Am I out of line for asking to meet with her face to face sometime in the next couple of weeks when she's freed up a little? Just not responding and continuing not to respond feels kind-of shi*ty.

[sunshinegirl]

I owe K's mom a phone call. She called me over a week ago. I want to tell her that I need some time of no contact with her because I'm really struggling to work through my breakup with her son. I had wanted to tell her this in person, but in her message to me she said she was out of town with her grandchildren this weekend, and then her dad is having knee surgery on Monday.

 

I could just not return her call, but then I fear it sends either a) no message at all or b) a message that I'm pulling away and she might think, if it's the latter, that I'm "over it." I want to be sure she knows that I love her and do want a relationship with her one day, but after some time has passed. Selfishly, I also want to let her know how hard this breakup has been for me, and that it is still hard and that's why I can't stay in contact right now. The selfish part is that I want her to feel a little bit of guilt on behalf of her son...and maybe I want the news to get back to him, too. Because I just bet he has convinced himself that I have moved on, in order to alleviate any guilt or feeling that he was a jerk.

 

Am I out of line for asking to meet with her face to face sometime in the next couple of weeks when she's freed up a little? Just not responding and continuing not to respond feels kind-of shi*ty.

 

Out of line? No. But continuing to harm yourself and your own healing by maintaining contact? YES.

 

GC, your thoughts above are chalk full of what you want her to feel and him to know. STOP IT. You can't control any of that, and it does you no good to try to orchestrate/control any of it. It keeps you enmeshed, it keeps you wondering and obsessing ("Did she tell him about our conversation? How did he react? Should I call her to find out?" Etc.)

 

Send her an email. Brief, to the point, stating your need for distance, your desire to reconnect at some point in time, your request that she not contact you in the meantime, but that you will reach out when you are ready.

 

Send. Boom. Done. Keep moving forward on YOUR path. Stop focusing on his/their paths.