My husband's lies. Is this a form of cheating?

[Emilia]

What her husband is doing is not just stupid banter. He's asking about this woman specifically and referring to her as his next wife. This isn't amusing on any level.

 

It's not amusing but from what I've seen, it fits in with how people talk at work. A lot of people have work spouses. I agree with the others that he would keep a potential affair a secret

[elaine567]

I enjoy drooling too and not think about that guy for more than a second after.

 

Everyone does that -but not everyone texts about that person daily, nor do they deny knowing them or get their mates to cover for their lies...

[Emilia]

Everyone does that -but not everyone texts about that person daily, nor do they deny knowing them or get their mates to cover for their lies...

 

there is no indication anywhere that he texted about her daily. Men lie all the time to get their mates out of trouble, that's the first thing every woman has to learn. Covering for your mates/asking them to cover is very common. The OP may not like it but there is no indication of cheating, just immature shlt that men do on a daily basis.

[jenkins95]

Why do I have to tip-toe around him and gently bring it up? I feel betrayed by him asking about this woman almost daily, and I'm supposed to spare his feelings? What about my feelings of betrayal and feeling like I'm not good enough? I do appreciate the feedback, but I don't think I should just sit back and take it because it's a "guy" thing. He would be PISSED if the tables were turned.

 

I'm not suggesting that you gently bring it up for his benefit. I am suggesting that this is the best way to get him to open up and to get to the truth. I have had a lot of grillings from my wife, understandably. When she was angry and direct and demanded answers NOW!, it felt very hostile and I couldn't help become guarded and clam up a bit. When things were brought up in a non hostile way with some empathy, I found I could happily talk freely. I think most guys are the same.

[elaine567]

there is no indication anywhere that he texted about her daily. Men lie all the time to get their mates out of trouble, that's the first thing every woman has to learn. Covering for your mates/asking them to cover is very common. The OP may not like it but there is no indication of cheating, just immature shlt that men do on a daily basis.

 

 

"I feel betrayed by him asking about this woman almost daily," #21

[jenkins95]

I'm appalled that so many people excuse this as just guy talk. What her husband has done is a real betrayal to his wife, to their marriage, and their relationship.

 

If I were you, OP, I would tell him that I was no longer interested in being married to him and I would leave, or tell him to leave. I wouldn't even tell him why. He doesn't deserve honesty. He only deserves to be left and have his ego hit really hard.

 

And, btw, he probably has cheated on you. I know of a man who has been married for 30 yrs and he cheated on his wife for nearly ten yrs. Not only does she not have a clue, she would be absolutely shocked to learn that he had done that. The truth is, your husband would probably cheat on you in a heartbeat, if he hasn't done so already.

 

Even if this is him just being a guy, you need to ask yourself if you're ok with that. And even if he hasn't physically cheated, he has gutted you emotionally and has cheated in his heart. He is obviously obsessed with this other woman. None of this is acceptable for keeping a marriage together.

 

From what I have read, this has been a great marriage for well over 20 years and the OP has had absolutely no reason to suspect anything wrong of her husband.

 

Yes, he has been a complete idiot and very disrespectful, but I don't believe that it is good advice to suggest to the OP that she should leave her marriage purely on the evidence of what we have read on this thread. And I don't believe that this will do anything for the OP's state of mind either.

 

Yes, he needs to give complete explanations, possibly even involving his colleagues, possibly even the girl, etc. Yes, he needs to say he is sorry and promise NEVER to behave like that again - and mean it - and do it. Yes, he needs to be an open book and allow the OP to see all his emails, texts, communications, etc. But, if the marriage was ended purely on the events that have been revealed on this thread, then I think it would be an absolute tragedy.

 

I guarantee that a million guys will behave exactly like this in offices all over the world tomorrow morning - and it will mean almost nothing to any of them - just silly, immature guys bonding. I'm not defending it - it's horrible, and as a guy who works in an office myself, I find it distasteful and try to avoid it. But it's life I'm afraid.

 

In my posts on this thread, I am not trying to play down what he has done, but on the grand scheme of things and compared to other stories we read here, on the evidence we have so far, this is a very tame indiscretion. If THIS marriage needs to end on this evidence, then there is hardly a marriage on LS worth saving. Please OP - give him a chance, and don't think less of him once you are past this.

[greaterdevil]

Why do I have to tip-toe around him and gently bring it up? I feel betrayed by him asking about this woman almost daily, and I'm supposed to spare his feelings? What about my feelings of betrayal and feeling like I'm not good enough? I do appreciate the feedback, but I don't think I should just sit back and take it because it's a "guy" thing. He would be PISSED if the tables were turned.

 

I mean, are we going to discuss the major, yes *major* breach of trust that you committed by going through his phone? Honestly I feel for you, because that is really hurtful stuff but you have to realize that your husband probably expects some semblance of privacy.

 

And then you LIED to him about how you found the info. Is it possible that you're trying to make this into a bigger offense than it was in order to justify betraying your husband's trust and then lying about it when you confronted him? At the end of your post you talk about how upset you are about your husband lying but you're also lying to him.

 

Should he get a pass on it? No, I don't think so. But crushes happen. I've had crushes while in long term relationships before and you can bet I said some inappropriate things (in my defense, I was young and high). Many of us say things around certain friends that don't reflect our better nature. Hopefully you can come clean about how you found the info--this might even work to your advantage, right now your husband has to feel like he's on the defensive from his perfect wife.

 

Admitting to how you snooped and then lied about it might level the playing field a little--you can promise never to do it again, and he can tell you that he's only got eyes for you and that he's sorry for behaving like a horny seventh-grade boy and disrespecting his wife.

 

What her husband is doing is not just stupid banter. He's asking about this woman specifically and referring to her as his next wife. This isn't amusing on any level.

 

No, not amusing and more than a harmless crush. But a crush, nonetheless--probably not worth throwing away or otherwise sullying two and a half decades of marriage.

 

Anyway, good luck OP--I know what it's like to find something you really didn't expect or want to see while snooping (I know you would have never guessed it from my moralizing wall of text), and it's not fun at all. In fact, it can plant seeds of jealousy and insecurity that will destroy your relationship. Which is why my

 

tl;dr is this: come clean to your husband about snooping. admit your mistakes. build some common ground so that he's not defensive and can see how badly his words hurt you. and good luck.

[bathtub-row]

My point is, she's not likely to get past it.

 

Yes, it may seem extreme to leave a marriage based on this info but it has been my experience that things like this have very deep roots. And granted, I don't have a high opinion of men or marriage so, yes, that should be taken into consideration. But my lack of respect for both is based on life experience. I just know that if a man is behaving in the way her husband is, this is an extremely bad sign. My guess is, her husband probably doesn't treat his wife with very much respect and doesn't make her feel very loved. I know of a man who would have an affair with me in a heartbeat and wouldn't think twice about it. Men justify anything they want and, unfortunately, I've seen too much.

 

As I said, I'm guessing that the roots of this situation run very deep and we haven't heard the full story. Yet.

[bathtub-row]

No, not amusing and more than a harmless crush. But a crush, nonetheless--probably not worth throwing away or otherwise sullying two and a half decades of marriage.

 

tl;dr is this: come clean to your husband about snooping. admit your mistakes. build some common ground so that he's not defensive and can see how badly his words hurt you. and good luck.

 

But 2.5 decades of marriage really doesn't seem to mean all that much to her husband, does it? And don't tell me that it obviously does because he's still with his wife. The truth is, men rarely leave their marriages. They're too attached to their money. But they have no problem cheating.

 

I can't believe you're putting this on OP because of the way she found out and because she didn't disclose that info. Lies beget lies. Too bad for him. His life should be an open book to his wife. I say again, there are some other deeply-rooted problems in this relationship that we haven't heard about. OP didn't just happen to check his phone. Her instincts were telling her that something isn't right. Cha-Ching! Those instincts pay off every time.

[Phoenician]

well , i agree that you have concerns but you can t put your hubby in a Jar and close it .

[elaine567]

My point is, she's not likely to get past it.

I agree.

All that pair bonding, all that trust, all that emotional intimacy, all that "love", ALL GONE in an instant, over his obsession with another woman.

He is no longer the man she thought he was.

She may or may not find he was physically cheating, but the denial and lying to her face will be difficult for her to forget here.

[bathtub-row]

Yes, he needs to give complete explanations, possibly even involving his colleagues, possibly even the girl, etc. Yes, he needs to say he is sorry and promise NEVER to behave like that again - and mean it - and do it. Yes, he needs to be an open book and allow the OP to see all his emails, texts, communications, etc. But, if the marriage was ended purely on the events that have been revealed on this thread, then I think it would be an absolute tragedy.

 

Seriously, if/when she confronts him with this, what do you honestly think he will say? It will be lies, lies, and more lies. He can no longer be trusted. He took the chance of his wife finding out this info and he took the chance of wrecking the very fabric of their relationship. So it seems he has gambled and has lost. My motto has always been, don't gamble if you can't afford to lose.

[jenkins95]

I agree.

All that pair bonding, all that trust, all that emotional intimacy, all that "love", ALL GONE in an instant, over his obsession with another woman.

He is no longer the man she thought he was.

She may or may not find he was physically cheating, but the denial and lying to her face will be difficult for her to forget here.

 

If we lived in a world where no one was ever allowed a second chance, an opportunity to apologise and put things right, if minor discretions could never be got past, people were never forgiven for their human failings...... What a miserable, cold, sterile world we would live in.

Edited February 21, 2016 by jenkins95

[bathtub-row]

If we lived in a world where no one was ever allowed a second chance, an opportunity to apologise and put things right, if minor discretions could never be got past, people were never forgiven for their human failings...... What a miserable, cold, sterile world we would live in.

 

Agreed -- assuming, of course, that a betrayal of trust is a "minor discretion".

 

On a daily basis, this guy inquires about this woman. This isn't a mistake and it's not minor. The miserable, cold, sterile world you refer to is the one he created for his wife by doing what he did.

[road]

Why do I have to tip-toe around him and gently bring it up? I feel betrayed by him asking about this woman almost daily, and I'm supposed to spare his feelings? What about my feelings of betrayal and feeling like I'm not good enough? I do appreciate the feedback, but I don't think I should just sit back and take it because it's a "guy" thing. He would be PISSED if the tables were turned.

 

 

Say you are a George Clooney fan. You have the hot's for him big time. You imagine sex with him would be the best ever. A female friend or two have had this conversation and they agree with you.

 

 

Your husband finds out about this. So is he to never let you see any of Clooney's movies? Is he to feel that you are having an affair? Is your husband to believe that if you have the chance to meet Clooney you will wind up doing him?

 

 

Can your husband be having an affair?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Based on what you have said I do not think he is having an affair.

 

 

However it is nothing wrong with you keeping an eye out when anything suspicious happens.

[Betrayed1987]

But the thing is he DOES show me love every single day, and I have always felt respected until this incident. I have absolutely no reason to believe that he has had an actual affair with this woman. It's just the fact that he asks about her all the time. I have looked back at his phone records, and there are no odd numbers. Hell, she might not even know that he exists for all I know. But again, I want to reiterate that he always shows me love, affection, and attention. That's not an issue. His inquiries about another woman, however, are.

[anna121]

OP I wonder whether you are most hurt by the fact that he is clearly sexually attracted to another woman. Because that part is really independent of his texts to his colleagues. Or is it that he is involving his co-workers in his fantasy?

 

There will be all kinds of perspectives on whether having such desires is inappropriate or natural.

 

If he had a diary and wrote down similar thoughts every day, and you read them, would you feel as hurt?

 

FWIW, I tend to agree that his talking about this woman with his coworkers suggests he is not at all serious about his desires. But yeah, the desires probably are there.

 

If he were to come clean, can you live with that knowledge?

[Raena]

If I was having an affair with my "little MILF" the last thing I would do is boast about it and banter with my colleagues. It would be an absolute secret that I would tell no one (as indeed happened in my real affair). Letting people know is a recipe for disaster, and I think that's pretty much common knowledge. To me this is clear office banter - typical guys being guys. It's distasteful, disrespectful and sexist......but ultimately harmless IMO. There's nothing surer to start a bout of office banter than the arrival of a sexy young woman - as probably happened last time Betrayed1987's husband was in that particular office over a year ago. He may have been the first colleague to make a comment, so the other guys direct all their banter towards him about her. Very likely the colleagues have got similar banter-type text messages on their phones concerning their own "MILF"s. Guys can be big kids, and this is often how they play.

 

I would try and bring it again up in a non-threatening, light way and thrash it out, Betrayed1987. Let him know that you know it's probably just silly banter but that it was a shock and made you feel hurt. Give him a friendly, non-hostile, un-rushed environment to open up. I'm certain that it is just sheer horrifying embarrassment that is causing him to clam up about it - he just wants it to go away, and is terrified of disappointing you or making you have a lower opinion of him, seeing him in his "sexist guys at work" mode. It sounds like you guys are 26 years into a wonderful marriage - I really hope such a silly isolated incident doesn't sully that great marriage in any way at all.

 

Good luck and keep posting here.

 

The bolded part is not always true. It may be true for you, but it wasn't true for my ex. He cheated on me with the cleaning lady at his job and all of his coworkers knew about it. Not only did they know, they egged him on and teased him about it much like OP's coworkers did. When I confronted him with who is she, he denied even knowing her. That's why I don't just take this situation at face value and say that it can't possibly mean anything. It can.

 

OP, my reaction is based on my own personal situation. It happened to me and in my case it wasn't just office banter between men. He was actually screwing around with her. I hope for your sake that this isn't the case at all. Just keep your eyes open. He isn't displaying any other behavior that is concerning so it may be nothing.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Having worked in a very male dominated profession, this is just fratboy mentality. I find for the most part when you add a couple of ladies to the dynamics, the group is better behaved, more productive and more fun to be around. However, when they leave it falls back to fratboy status again. It is not all men and nothing to be proud of, but it is not uncommon. I think that you have every right to feel disrespected since he brought it up in writing, it's not like she was walking by them.

 

I recommend that all media and devices are opened to both spouses, there should be secrets here. This leaves open communication and accountability to each other. I recommend couples counseling so that he can learn better communication skills, discover how he his behavior is disrespectful to you and it gives you a platform to vent your frustrations under the controlled environment of a trained counselor. I don't believe he has cheated, but that doesn't mean there are not issues that need to be addressed. If the role was reversed, he would not be a happy camper.

[bathtub-row]

But the thing is he DOES show me love every single day, and I have always felt respected until this incident. I have absolutely no reason to believe that he has had an actual affair with this woman. It's just the fact that he asks about her all the time. I have looked back at his phone records, and there are no odd numbers. Hell, she might not even know that he exists for all I know. But again, I want to reiterate that he always shows me love, affection, and attention. That's not an issue. His inquiries about another woman, however, are.

 

I'm glad he has been loving toward you over the years. I'm actually surprised to hear that. Then the only things I can conclude at this point is that he loves you but is bored; or he loves you but is extremely infatuated with this other woman. Either way, I'm sorry he has done this and has hurt you in such a way.

[jenkins95]

The bolded part is not always true. It may be true for you, but it wasn't true for my ex. He cheated on me with the cleaning lady at his job and all of his coworkers knew about it. Not only did they know, they egged him on and teased him about it much like OP's coworkers did. When I confronted him with who is she, he denied even knowing her. That's why I don't just take this situation at face value and say that it can't possibly mean anything. It can.

 

OP, my reaction is based on my own personal situation. It happened to me and in my case it wasn't just office banter between men. He was actually screwing around with her. I hope for your sake that this isn't the case at all. Just keep your eyes open. He isn't displaying any other behavior that is concerning so it may be nothing.

 

Raena, I'm really sorry to hear that - it must have been a complete nightmare and so completely humiliating. I am totally ashamed that I had an affair and I just can't imagine boasting about it or even telling a single other person, but your case is living proof that this does happen.

 

The OP has heard opinions from all angles and I really hope they have helped. If H is completely open and honest and changes his ways and it turns out that nothing worse is still to be uncovered (I highly doubt that there is anything else and I really hope so), then that is promising. Only Betrayed1987 knows if she could then forgive, trust and move on. For my part, I really hope they make it through this.

 

Is your story on these boards Raena? I will do some searching after I send this.

Edited February 21, 2016 by jenkins95

[Raena]

Raena, I'm really sorry to hear that - it must have been a complete nightmare and so completely humiliating. I am totally ashamed that I had an affair and I just can't imagine boasting about it or even telling a single other person, but your case is living proof that this does happen.

 

The OP has heard opinions from all angles and I really hope they have helped. If H is completely open and honest and changes his ways and it turns out that nothing worse is still to be uncovered (I highly doubt that there is anything else and I really hope so), then that is promising. Only Betrayed1987 knows if she could then forgive, trust and move on. For my part, I really hope they make it through this.

 

Is your story on these boards Raena? I will do some searching after I send this.

 

Most of it is yes... I wrote a post on here asking questions less than a week before finding out the truth. I don't think I wrote much about the part about his coworkers because I didn't find that stuff out or make the connections to things that were said to me until much later. Most of my posts are about the crazy behavior of the OW. It was horrendous.

[Mirage10]

I work in a male dominated industry. On face value, from what you are telling us, can tell you this is "normal". Nice, ok, right...maybe not, but this is what happens in these industries. Most of these guys are good fathers and husbands, its just "locker room" talk between blue collar guys. Its an industry that most people don't get to see behind the scenes. Well, this is it. Most of the time its only guys being guys shooting their mouths off. I can't believe some posters here calling for divorce/seperation. More likely than not, he is severely embarrassed that his wife got to see a glimpse behind the scenes and he feels like an idiot/embarrassed. Again, this is going from face value.

[anna121]

A number of posts saying that hubby feels "embarrassed" that OP is getting a look behind the scenes at how he really behaves. But on the face of it, all he knows is that someone told OP he has a crush on someone...because that is what OP confronted him with. NOT that OP has actually seen his texts and the suggestive labelling of this woman.

 

I don't see being outed for a crush as "embarrassing".

[JamesM]

Totally disagree with "this is just guy talk" attitude.

 

NEVER in all of my 20+ years of marriage have I discussed a woman like this to other male friends. Never has any male friends IRL or even online talked about women like this.

 

I have had "work wives" meaning we seem to spend more time together than with our partners. Still, we never talked about each other like this or to someone else.

 

Do I think he has had an affair with her? If he has not been there, then probably not. If he had, then he would probably be texting HER and not the guys.

 

My wife would rightfully be hurt and angered by talk like this. It is one thing for me to discuss a woman with her. I have and she does with me. It is quite another thing to discuss a woman with friends and call her "my wifey." And that they call her his "little MILF?"

 

Sorry. I find that actually very disrespectful of her and you. Your husband is discussing her like she is a piece of meat.

 

And to compare that to a celebrity crush is not quite appropriate. Besides, a husband and a wife would share that kind of crush with each other.

 

And on top of that he lied about knowing her and all. This makes me suspicious that somewhere in the past, he either wanted or had a relationship that was inappropriate.

 

If you confront him, then be prepared for him to get angry at YOU for snooping on his phone. He will make this about you not trusting him and avoid actually answering your questions. If there really was something or if he wants something, then he will use all types of phrases that if analyzed avoid answering your questions.

 

This is an issue because it is disrespecting of you and your marriage. He knows it and is lying for that reason.

 

We all get crushes on people even while married. I have had them and will have them. My wife has had them. But doing what your husband is doing carries it a little too far.

 

No, I am not being over the top. This is a real concern that needs to be dealt with.

 

JMO.