Can sibling relationship survive cutting contact with mother

[candie13]

I find bits & pieces of your RS with your family members in mine.

 

Denial is very toxic. Very. Your sister cannot choose to live in denial about her mom and yet have A genuine RS with You. I would like to point out one thing: your sister was as much of a victim as You were. Pls don't blame her for siding with your mom. I doubt she was understanding what she was doing and why. She was adapting to what seemed a highly dysfunctional environment. Protecting herself.

 

Most likely everyone was in denial in your original household about everything, how can you expect a victim of it to react in a sane, brave manner? The dysfunctional behaviour, undiscriminatedly affected everyone. Your mom, yourself and your sister. Don't think your sister was sparred. Not at all. If anything, by isolating you, your mom sparred you because now you can see and talk about reality as it is. With honesty. Your sister still can't. She's still in the desease.

 

The only advice I can give You is to stay true to yourself and stay grounded. I don't understand why you don't want to sit down with your sister and tell her, share with her why You are upset and what it is that You are doing. You do not possess The ability to read The future, maybe she Will understand, maybe she won't. i'd give her a chance.

 

I am a bit of a fixer, I admit. I know that the only way to fix RS with People is to tell The truth. Tell all my truth. Not shouting. No screaming. People understand.

 

I also believe in splitting costs evenly. What's fair is fair. I'd keep receipts from your expenses and évaluations from what your sister was donated and keep her informed.

 

I am A child of alcoholic parents and before getting into The 12 steps, I would be quite similar to your sister. Codependent, people pleasing, unable to stay in top of my finances, afraid of all administrative tasks. Out mother was also very authoritative and unempathic and strict, but she never victimized my sister. She preferred me by far, but she loved us both. Because of her preference and transfer onto me, I am much more affected by the family dysfunction than my sister. She is much much healthier.

 

You sound much healthier than your sister.

 

Cutting people off from your life is easier than revisiting old relationships and setting healthy boundaries. Changing dynamics. I love my parents and my sister. It took me forever to forgive my parents, but I have very strong feelings for them. Whatever may happen, I will try to protect them and tell them what I think it's right. Following through is beyond me. But I will talk to them. Cutting them off isn't bringing You or them anything. You cannot pretend you have no sister. You cannot pretend You have no mother. You cannot pretend You do not love your sister or your mother.

Edited March 25, 2016 by candie13

[Emilia]

My sister and I have had several conversations over this but the reason why I'm not explaining myself to her is mainly because she doesn't get it just like you don't so I don't see the point in putting myself through it. Cutting people off isn't easier, you don't understand what it takes to get to that stage because you have never been there. Just like my sister hasn't. It's not anyone's fault, it is just something you or her aren't positioned to comprehend.

 

It is also about me not her and I don't feel I owe her an explanation. Her lack of boundaries and disbelief are her problem, not mine.

[Emilia]

Cutting people off from your life is easier than revisiting old relationships and setting healthy boundaries. Changing dynamics. I love my parents and my sister. It took me forever to forgive my parents, but I have very strong feelings for them. Whatever may happen, I will try to protect them and tell them what I think it's right. Following through is beyond me. But I will talk to them. Cutting them off isn't bringing You or them anything. You cannot pretend you have no sister. You cannot pretend You have no mother. You cannot pretend You do not love your sister or your mother.

I don't love my mother, not sure whether I love my sister.

 

Until you experience being brought up by someone that doesn't love you, you don't understand that you can't set boundaries with people like that because they simply don't recognise your boundaries.

 

It will be interesting to see if anyone gets this:

 

I checked my Skype last night as I could see there was a missed message. Until now it was linked to my Outlook but I had never used it before (it's now unlinked).

 

It was from my mother, I read it, it's the first message I read since I stopped talking to her last July.

 

It was her offering me money in exchange for getting in touch with her. Of course not so crudely: it's an investment opportunity, a property she would give me, an amount I could use for my own needs, etc.

 

It's a conversation we had many many times before: I had told her my top priority was her pension/money in her retirement as she is only 64 and has a long way to go yet. I'd rather she kept all her assets and used them wisely - but she doesn't. She makes grand gestures to people, she has given away a life-time worth of antiques, book collections, etc to near strangers to reinforce her non-existent social status.

 

I sort of forced her to buy a flat she could rent out (no mortgage) so that she would have additional income added to her measly pension. Now she has almost nothing: her tiny flat she lives in, the tiny investment flat, a car (decreasing value, of course) and an uninhabitable cottage in the country that she wants to give me. She burned through everything else, she has no cash apart from the rental income and her £200 a month pension and she has another 25 years to go.

 

I've told her many times to sell that old place (it would need a new roof, for starters) and to invest the money wisely, to make sure she has something. We had this conversation about the cottage a couple of times a year for years.

 

Now it has reared its ugly head again. I had explained that compared to my London investments, it has no use to me as Eastern European property prices cannot be compared, really and the cottage would be more of a burden than anything else.

 

We had this conversation many many many times. That I don't need it. She does. It's hard for me from a thousand miles away, it's easy for her. I don't need her money, she does though because she doesn't have much.

 

But her offering it to me plays into the 'my daughter is materialistic and she only cares about money', 'my daughter can't stand on her own two feet, she needs my financial support', 'I have everything I need, I can do anything I want financially because my judgement is flawless' narrative.

 

Again, for some it looks like I'm an ungrateful daughter who looks for faults. For others it will be obvious that to my mother at the age of 43 what I want and what I have achieved do not matter and that she thinks money is so important to me that she has me by the short and curlies.

 

The end.

[amaysngrace]

Maybe she wants you to come back so that you'll spend your own money to get her place in shape to sell then never pay you back was my first thought.

 

I'm sorry that she's making this so difficult for you Em but trust your gut. You're a smart woman and sorry to say but your mum sounds like a fool.

[Emilia]

Maybe she wants you to come back so that you'll spend your own money to get her place in shape to sell then never pay you back was my first thought.

That's possible because she tried to trick me into guaranteeing her mortgage before and when I lent her money to buy the other place, she never paid me back. Not that I bothered to ask, it wasn't much by Western European costs/prices. I think however that she wants to 'help me out', you know, a form of infantilisation to prove that I'm not capable on my own. It's what she does to my sister.

I'm sorry that she's making this so difficult for you Em but trust your gut. You're a smart woman and sorry to say but your mum sounds like a fool.

Thanks amay, you are saying what some of my close friends are saying. I really do appreciate it.

[Taramere]

Update: haven't spoken with my sister since I last posted and I don't miss her. We had been speaking less and less gradually before the argument, she moved to another city, she doesn't come to London much, I had been doing 90% of the travelling. She sent me a text the night before she came to town but I was already doing something else, that something else got cancelled but I didn't feel like letting her know and meeting up anyways.

 

I could call her but I'm not sure what I'd say. I don't miss my family, I feel much better not playing the blacksheep role that had been assigned to me as a kid. I've made a lot of progress, rebuilding my social circle, relating to people in a much more positive way, not being so self critical, not accepting people who are excessively critical, making apologies to a couple of people I had been excessively critical to.

 

It's weird because moving on has happened so fast.

 

You've done well in all sorts of ways, Emilia. I think that often happens with the children who feel like "black sheep" within their families.

 

Family often only see a very limited side to us. Often who we were as children, or how they choose to perceive us. It can be limiting in the best of families - and in the more dysfunctional ones it can be downright destructive. Moving outside the family unit and learning that the world sees more (or less) to us than our family members did or do...that can make or break people. I think it makes you.

[Emilia]

You've done well in all sorts of ways, Emilia. I think that often happens with the children who feel like "black sheep" within their families.

 

Family often only see a very limited side to us. Often who we were as children, or how they choose to perceive us. It can be limiting in the best of families - and in the more dysfunctional ones it can be downright destructive. Moving outside the family unit and learning that the world sees more (or less) to us than our family members did or do...that can make or break people. I think it makes you.

Thank you for your continued support Taramere, you always see the good in me

 

I think that in dysfunctional families being on the receiving end of the nastier stuff is better than being favoured. It still skews your perceptions and unfortunately projecting can become a habit.

 

However, you are also more likely to be introspective and self-aware. You learn to accept constructive criticism - which can be hard when you were brought up with excessive criticism as you can perceive it as an attack rather than a helpful feedback.

 

I think what I have learned is that to be a good person and to get anywhere in life you must expose yourself to growth and learning.

 

I saw narcissists where I worked (the company was a household name and that sort of environment) and I saw that they were bad at their jobs. The reasons were the massive ego trips, not accepting the fact that we all make mistakes and can easily find ways to improve in all sorts of ways. In fact, we should.

 

Same thing applies to your private life. If you expect flattery and people blowing smoke up your a**e, you will stagnate and not learn to cope. It becomes a false reality. If you find a way for reasonably objective feedback and self-awareness, you can make a good person of yourself who is resilient.

 

So yes, being black sheep or scapegoat has a lot to be said for.

[SoulCat]

I was always considered the black sheep in my family. Not so much that I did things 'wrong', but I danced to my own tune, not conforming to family expectations.

 

Though I've had a lovely childhood, I've always had a tricky relationship with my mother, which was exacerbated by the diagnosed depression/bi-polar behaviour she developed when I was in my teens.

 

I've always known she loves drama, and that only got worse after my father passed away. If there was no drama, she's create it.

I broke off contact around 7 years ago when she did something that in my eyes, no loving mother would ever do to their child.

 

 

I had come to the conclusion that basically, I don't trust her to have my well-being at heart.

I'd had enough of her scheming, her game-play and manipulations.I realised that I don't particularly like her and that we will never have a healthy mother/daughter relationship.

 

 

Unfortunately, when cutting contact with her, I also lost contact with my brother whom I'd always been close with.

He couldn't see how my relationship with our mother was so different to his.

He kept saying things like 'You know what she's like' and 'You know she doesn't mean it'.

 

 

But for me, enough was enough, I had reached my limit. I ceased all contact. With both of them.

Finally, it felt like I had done the right thing. I still feel that way today.

 

 

Last Sunday I contacted my brother over FB. I have recently received some heirlooms from my mother's side of the family, from her brother.

 

He and my mother fell out over their parents inheritance some 30 years ago and ending up cutting contact.

Her brother, my uncle, kept these heirlooms in a safe for me ever since. My mother never told us these items existed, I also never really knew why they fell out.

Anyway, since I haven't got any children (or ever planning on having any) I thought maybe it would be nice to pass some of my grandmother's jewelry to my brother's 2 daughters, so I decided to contact him.

 

I got a message back from him on Monday which basically said 'If you want to resume contact with me, you'd better do the same with our mother. Then we'll see.'

 

I left it a couple of days but this lunchtime composed my reply. I'll mull it over a bit more before sending it but it basically says that I find it disappointing that he puts contact with my mother as a condition on me having contact with him. That I have absolutely no desire to have her in my life and if that's non-negotiable for him, I shall respect his stance and cease contact with him once again.

 

 

I guess I'll have to pass those beautiful pieces of jewelry onto someone else....

[Emilia]

I broke off contact around 7 years ago when she did something that in my eyes, no loving mother would ever do to their child.

Exactly that was my motivation too.

I had come to the conclusion that basically, I don't trust her to have my well-being at heart.

I'd had enough of her scheming, her game-play and manipulations.I realised that I don't particularly like her and that we will never have a healthy mother/daughter relationship.

Same here. I don't know whether my mother is qualified to be called a narcissist or an NPD, I don't even care. I just know I don't want to be around someone like that - but more importantly, I don't want her way of thinking influence mine. It's too deeply ingrained just to try to ignore though I had tried for years, then came to the conclusion that for stronger and better boundaries, etc, I needed to cut contact.

Unfortunately, when cutting contact with her, I also lost contact with my brother whom I'd always been close with.

He couldn't see how my relationship with our mother was so different to his.

He kept saying things like 'You know what she's like' and 'You know she doesn't mean it'.

Yep. Though I wonder whether it's about not wanting to face what you decided to face. It's actually quite a hard thing to decide on. People tell you it's easier for the person who has cut contact (it's what my sister told me) but they don't realise (or don't want to realise) the thoughts and feelings that go into that decision over a period of time.

 

I was close to my sister too - though surprisingly that I got over quite quickly. I think I suddenly saw her in a new light. I did try to clear the air and talk to her after the argument we had but she chose not to.

I got a message back from him on Monday which basically said 'If you want to resume contact with me, you'd better do the same with our mother. Then we'll see.'

 

I left it a couple of days but this lunchtime composed my reply. I'll mull it over a bit more before sending it but it basically says that I find it disappointing that he puts contact with my mother as a condition on me having contact with him. That I have absolutely no desire to have her in my life and if that's non-negotiable for him, I shall respect his stance and cease contact with him once again.

 

I guess I'll have to pass those beautiful pieces of jewelry onto someone else....

It is the reason why I don't have contact with my sister. I read up on things for about a month before I cut contact with my mother and I knew this was likely to happen. Really, there are patterns - which just makes me think I did the right thing.

 

Recently it was my 'name day' (an Eastern European thing) and for the first time ever I received nothing from my sister. There hasn't been a name day or birthday for my sister since we stopped talking, my birthday will be before hers, if she doesn't send me a quick text, I'll take her off my social media.

 

Since my mother still texts me, I'm considering changing my number, not sure yet. Her name day and birthday this year have already passed and I didn't contact her, I presume this is why my sister ignored my name day. It's her call but if she chooses to maintain no contact as an emphasis of her feelings on my decision then I'll cut her out of my life completely.

[SoulCat]

 

Yep. Though I wonder whether it's about not wanting to face what you decided to face. It's actually quite a hard thing to decide on. People tell you it's easier for the person who has cut contact (it's what my sister told me) but they don't realise (or don't want to realise) the thoughts and feelings that go into that decision over a period of time.

 

 

I very much agree with you. My brother seems to be under the impression that one day I just decided, out of the blue, to cut off contact.

 

 

In fact it was years in the making. Everytime she overstepped my boundaries, everytime she tried to manipulate me, the people around me or the situation, every time she had a dig or a snipe at me (in my native language, so that my then boyfriend/fiance wouldn't understand what she'd said) were straws.

 

And then came the big one, the straw that didn't just break the camel's back, it annihilated the entire camel.

 

 

But to this day I am so glad I made that decision.

Even during my darkest moments, and there were a fair few of those during the past 5 years with me facing the betrayal of my ex husband, a horrendously painful divorce, losing the support of my in-laws, having to sell my home and dealing with a HpV related cancer scare (thanks to the cheating ex) I never once had the urge to pick up the phone to call my mother. Or my brother for that matter.

 

 

Instead I faced most of that shyte alone. Because it was easier.

[Emilia]

I very much agree with you. My brother seems to be under the impression that one day I just decided, out of the blue, to cut off contact.

 

 

In fact it was years in the making. Everytime she overstepped my boundaries, everytime she tried to manipulate me, the people around me or the situation, every time she had a dig or a snipe at me (in my native language, so that my then boyfriend/fiance wouldn't understand what she'd said) were straws.

 

And then came the big one, the straw that didn't just break the camel's back, it annihilated the entire camel.

Indeed. I think I started seriously considering it about 4 years ago when my mother tried to trick me and my sister into signing a piece of paper that would have guaranteed her mortgage - without discussing it first. She just told us to sign on the line and put our bank details down. I think my sister was going to but I put my foot down of course like any normal person would and I expected an apology as a response.

 

The response I got was 'oh that's ok, I didn't need the guarantee after all'. And that 'she was doing it all for us, for our future'

 

It started dawning on me then that it couldn't go on forever like this and that perhaps thinking for years and years that she was a fool (as amay here put it) was correct.

 

Instead I faced most of that shyte alone. Because it was easier.

You mean comments like 'well what did you expect' wouldn't have been helpful? Whatever next.

 

I'm sorry you had to go thought that, we can't pick our families but we can pick our attitude

[SoulCat]

 

You mean comments like 'well what did you expect' wouldn't have been helpful? Whatever next.

 

 

Yeah that one, and the inevitable 'I told you so'. Most likely followed by the ever helpful 'I saw it all coming from miles away'.

 

I'm pretty sure she would have made my ex's infidelity and betrayal to have been entirely my own fault too somehow.

 

 

 

I'm sorry you had to go thought that, we can't pick our families but we can pick our attitude

 

 

Hear hear sister!

[Emilia]

so I've got a text just now that my mother is on her way to London (she lives back in my home country) and she will be here for 3 nights. She knows my home address of course, I don't really know whether that means she will just rock up.

 

So as I'm at home at the moment studying, I guess my options are that I do everything I need to do early in the morning because if she is considering staking the place out, she wouldn't get here until later (for various reasons).

 

She is here 24-26 May so really it's only tomorrow and the day after when I'll have to be careful.

 

The buzzer doesn't work and I'm grateful for that because there is actually no way of switching it off.

 

Will see. I wonder whether this is how it's going to be for the rest of my life, or her life. Though I am planning to move in about 2 months' time and my family won't know that address.

 

I'm going to change my phone number.