Starting to hate my father

[TeddyBeer]

Hi everyone,

 

My problem is, as the topic title: I am starting to hate my father. It is not really that I hate him, as much as I hate what he does. He is basically killing himself. He is an alcoholic and he smokes a lot of shag (loose tobacco that he rolls up in paper). He has had an awful, awful sounding cough for as long as I can remember, and a few times that his cough was so bad that I ran downstairs afraid for his life and he was panting after his cough and himself saying that he could not breathe at all. So that's one very serious health issue.

 

The second one is his drinking. When he gets home from work, the first thing he does is get a beer and a vodka, and over the night he will drink 4 beer and 4 vodka total. In one night. In the weekend it is worse; as soon as it is noon, he will get himself a beer and a vodka and keep on drinking. The worst day that I kept track of his drinking was one day that he drank 7 beers and 7 vodka, plus 2 rose wine. Besides from this he is fat (on the belly, so the most dangerous kind of fat) and he doesn't get any exercise! Everywhere he goes, he drives (yes with the alcohol is dangerous too).

 

I have tried talk to him about this many times. I have come crying to him saying I am afraid he will die, because I am. But he doesn't even try to change. Last summer while he was at work he thought he was having a heart attack (turned out to be 'just' very high blood pressure) and I was so happy, I thought it would be a turning point. But it wasn't. He keeps on living the exact same way. And every time I see him I just start hate him, because he is killing himself. His sister just got diagnosed with lung cancer, while smoking much less than him and having a far healthier life style. So you'd think that would make him think about his own lifestyle some more.. but no.

 

Furthermore both my grandparents from father's side were suffering from dementia, which has been positively linked to drinking and smoking. All in all a ton of health problems and risk behavior. And I keep telling him you shouldn't drink so much, you should quit smoking, and his answer summarized is usually: "It is none of your business".

 

Now, every time I see him smoke cigarette after cigarette and beer and vodka after beer and vodka I just feel angry and I am really starting to hate him. Because he is killing himself. And I told him that. I wrote him a letter and he did not respond to it at all, the only thing he said was: well.. the positive thing I can make out from this letter is that you love me and worry about me.. and that was it!! Like that was enough. And I know I cannot change a person, but I cannot stop caring about trying to stop his selfdestructing ways either. I mean hell, I want him to be able to meet his grandchildren you know. And the way he is living it is just a heartattack or liver/kidney failure or cancer waiting to happen.

 

I think it is selfish and I am angry for it. I have been trying to have him change his ways for 7 years now. Anyone any tips, any similar experiences?

[AMJ]

Yep, my dad has been an alcoholic for about ten years now. He also smokes every day, eats a terribly unhealthy diet (we're talking hot dogs, chili, and cheese. vegetables do not exist). He has high blood pressure, high cholesterol...he's basically a heart attack just waiting to happen.

 

You should go to Al-Anon- Meeting List

It's a support network for family members of alcoholics. That's probably the best type of support you'll be able to find, and you'll meet people who can give you support on a regular basis. It's free.

 

They say that addicts won't change unless they hit "rock bottom" which has different meanings for different people. It could be a heart attack, it could be losing your family, losing your job, losing your place to live, getting arrested, a combination of those things.

I've learned that addicts will never stop or change because we want them to. They have to want to change on their own. That's the hardest part, in my opinion. They have to want to change.

 

Some people think an intervention works- gathering all the people who care most about the addict in one room and having a confrontation. This didn't work for my family.

 

It's an extremely selfish problem- I completely agree with you. My dad came home from his Christmas AA meeting and told us, his family, that Christmas is ****ed up because everyone in AA hates Christmas since it causes them so much pain, they're all alone, their families left them. We're listening to my father say this ****, and we're thinking- Do you NOT see the irony in what you're saying right now?? The problem is not Christmas, the problem is alcoholism. They love to blame everyone else. And never accept responsibility.

 

The best advice I have for you is to find support from other family members, and to decide for yourself how much you are willing to sacrifice to help him. Always protect yourself, your heart, your own life and needs first.

[TeddyBeer]

Yep, my dad has been an alcoholic for about ten years now. He also smokes every day, eats a terribly unhealthy diet (we're talking hot dogs, chili, and cheese. vegetables do not exist). He has high blood pressure, high cholesterol...he's basically a heart attack just waiting to happen.

Yes I forgot to mention that: his eating habits are also just terrible. And I cannot stand see him cook. There is almost more butter than other ingredients in it and so, so much salt. And he cooks in the weekends sometimes, I cook every week day so I don't use any oil or butter or salt and he enjoys that, yet he feels like he should use a pack of butter for 4 portions of chili con carne.... ridiculous! I mean I try it every time and the taste of it is nice, but my mouth feels greasy and awful to the point that I really need to brush my teeth after just having a bite of it..

 

You should go to Al-Anon- Meeting List

It's a support network for family members of alcoholics. That's probably the best type of support you'll be able to find, and you'll meet people who can give you support on a regular basis. It's free.

Thanks I will try that site !

 

They say that addicts won't change unless they hit "rock bottom" which has different meanings for different people. It could be a heart attack, it could be losing your family, losing your job, losing your place to live, getting arrested, a combination of those things.

Yes, losing the job I fear too. When I see him in the morning it is just scary. His bloodshed eyes, looking so hung over, also not even able to really speak clearly... just like he's still a bit drunk. And 15mins later he is in the car. He never looks like he takes care of himself either. And his company keeps 'reorganizing', I'm thinking it is just because my grandfather created this organization that they keep him.. and maybe he does a good job too i don't know, but wouldn't think he looks very representative or anything..

 

I've learned that addicts will never stop or change because we want them to. They have to want to change on their own. That's the hardest part, in my opinion. They have to want to change.

 

Some people think an intervention works- gathering all the people who care most about the addict in one room and having a confrontation. This didn't work for my family.

 

It's an extremely selfish problem- I completely agree with you. My dad came home from his Christmas AA meeting and told us, his family, that Christmas is ****ed up because everyone in AA hates Christmas since it causes them so much pain, they're all alone, their families left them. We're listening to my father say this ****, and we're thinking- Do you NOT see the irony in what you're saying right now?? The problem is not Christmas, the problem is alcoholism. They love to blame everyone else. And never accept responsibility.

 

The best advice I have for you is to find support from other family members, and to decide for yourself how much you are willing to sacrifice to help him. Always protect yourself, your heart, your own life and needs first.

 

Yes and that is where I have the biggest problem: when everyone tells him he is killing himself, and he realizes that we say this because it is true, and he knows he should stop, shouldn't that be enough reason to stop? This Friday he had an endoscopy, so he needed to laxate and fast at Thursday, so no drinking or food. So I thought: perfect time for him to cut down on the drinking and I told him. Next day (Friday) he said: time to catch up, getting a beer and vodka while he was working at home. And drinking all day.I mean that is just sick.

 

And I did really think this one time he felt like having a heart attack and he saw the high blood pressure and cholesterol, he would do something. He said he wanted to go ride a bike everywhere and go for walks.... he never did any of that. Always park car close. If he couldn't park close drive for another two rounds and park close.

 

But, good thing is at least your father went to AA. My father would never even consider that, because he doesn't think he has a problem. And any problem he has, medicine can take care off.. Just makes me angry.

 

And the hating recently: I think that is just my way of trying to just care less. That it will hurt less when he dies early, because I am sure that he will. But on the other side I know he can easily prevent it too. And I am angry that he doesn't even try to do anything.

[justwhoiam]

I have been trying to have him change his ways for 7 years now. Anyone any tips, any similar experiences?

Whatever you did so far didn't work. For 7 years. He needs to learn the hard way. You should go to your local social services ASAP and let them intervene.

 

It's a bomb ready to explode. I know of someone who killed a family member after around 11 years as an alcoholic. Alcoholics often escalate in their drama, which means they need to drink more going on, it's an ongoing process towards destruction, that usually doesn't involve just themselves. One fine day, he reached the bottom. Relatives were kind of estranged. No neighbor thought it would have been a good idea to involve social workers. The consequence was - as you can imagine - tragic.

 

Also, as he frequently drives around anywhere, it is your duty to report that to authorities, so that he will lose his driving license. You might save lives just with that. I can't even think if you didn't and anything bad happened, you'd feel responsible for turning a blind eye, when you've been knowing the risky situation for years.

[candie13]

he is an adult. The only person you can protect is yourself.

 

Anger and resentment are normal. Remember feelings aren't facts. Don't get in the same car as him. Don't buy him liquor or cigarettes. Don't cover for his job. Don't lend him money. Don't borrow him your car. Don't get into a car with him.

 

He is in a self destruction mode and may cling onto anything and anyone while spiraling out of control. Stay away. Protect yourself from him. Best advice I can give you.

[AMJ]

Yes I forgot to mention that: his eating habits are also just terrible. And I cannot stand see him cook. There is almost more butter than other ingredients in it and so, so much salt. And he cooks in the weekends sometimes, I cook every week day so I don't use any oil or butter or salt and he enjoys that, yet he feels like he should use a pack of butter for 4 portions of chili con carne.... ridiculous! I mean I try it every time and the taste of it is nice, but my mouth feels greasy and awful to the point that I really need to brush my teeth after just having a bite of it..

 

OMG how we laugh about my father's usage of butter and sour cream. Sometimes you have to laugh, or else you'll cry. When it comes to food- just make your own, eat the way you want to eat.

 

 

Yes, losing the job I fear too. When I see him in the morning it is just scary. His bloodshed eyes, looking so hung over, also not even able to really speak clearly... just like he's still a bit drunk. And 15mins later he is in the car. He never looks like he takes care of himself either. And his company keeps 'reorganizing', I'm thinking it is just because my grandfather created this organization that they keep him.. and maybe he does a good job too i don't know, but wouldn't think he looks very representative or anything..

 

His coworkers know he's a drunk. People aren't dumb. My dad's coworkers know as well. My dad also drinks and drives. His twin brother has said that we're all going to be responsible if he kills someone because he's driving drunk. If we report him to the police, there's not much they can do- it's not like they can park outside our house and wait for him to drive his car while drunk.

 

Yes and that is where I have the biggest problem: when everyone tells him he is killing himself, and he realizes that we say this because it is true, and he knows he should stop, shouldn't that be enough reason to stop? This Friday he had an endoscopy, so he needed to laxate and fast at Thursday, so no drinking or food. So I thought: perfect time for him to cut down on the drinking and I told him. Next day (Friday) he said: time to catch up, getting a beer and vodka while he was working at home. And drinking all day.I mean that is just sick.

 

Understanding why they do it...this is a matter of understanding addicts and addiction. Al-Anon- even reading resources online- will help you out a lot with this one. I'm personally to the point where I don't even care why he's screwed up, why his life is a mess, why doesn't he do anything to fix it...thinking about these things is for me, a waste of time.

 

But, good thing is at least your father went to AA. My father would never even consider that, because he doesn't think he has a problem. And any problem he has, medicine can take care off.. Just makes me angry.

 

So the only reason my dad went to AA is because my mom finally- after so many years- finally, got the nerve to tell him she was going to leave him. And not just tell him, with my help she was taking serious steps that scared him. I dragged her to lawyers, to therapists, to Al-Anon. I dragged her- I say dragged because she was such a broken, hopeless, depressed, completely broken person because he's emotionally abused her into this sad person who has no strength- to look at houses for us to move into, I sat down with her and went through finances...for months I did this.

 

So she confronted him and he made a half-assed attempt to get sober. He agreed to go to rehab for 7 days, but complained so much and demanded to be taken home after only 3 days. He went to AA for a month but didn't read the book, didn't go through the steps, didn't really talk or engage in meetings. I'd call him out about this- because he'd come home from meetings and want to talk all about how ****ed up everyone else is, and how he's not really that bad because he's never been in jail, doesn't have three marriages, has a good job, owns his home, etc. We'd get SO angry listening to him not take any responsibility or have any humility.

 

He gave me his one-month sobriety chip as a christmas present. That's the only gift he's given me since I was probably 12 years old. He gave it to me, because he brought it home after being sober for only 2 weeks. I said- dad, you're not being honest to the people in your meeting, and more importantly, to yourself. You've not yet been sober for a month, it's only been two weeks. He was so pissed off at me. So he gave me his one month chip for christmas. Nice, huh?

 

As I predicted, about a month and a half into his sobriety he slipped. His stupid ****ing doctor gave him a prescription for Xanax- his doctor KNOWS he has a problem and we've told him not to give him xanax. I told him to ask for buspirol, which is a non addictive anti-anxiety med. So he came home a few weeks ago and took 4 xanax, and two days later he was full on drunk again.

 

Anyway, it was good he went to AA. I guess he tried. Now that his whole family has left him, we'll see how he handles it. I think he'll probably just go full-on disaster mode and lose his job. But we all couldn't sit around and be part of it anymore.

 

And the hating recently: I think that is just my way of trying to just care less. That it will hurt less when he dies early, because I am sure that he will. But on the other side I know he can easily prevent it too. And I am angry that he doesn't even try to do anything.

 

And that hate. I have it too. It goes away sometimes, then it comes back. It's easier if you can get yourself some distance from your dad. I just wrote this in a post on here a day or two ago, but a woman in Al-Anon told me I shouldn't hate my dad, because it's a disease like cancer. And I wanted to scream at her. We're absolutely allowed to be angry at our dads, for so many reasons. Angry because they chose to live this way, they don't try hard enough to change, for the way they treat us, all the ways they're not being good fathers, the list goes on.

 

Someone else wrote a really great post about letting go of that hate, because it just eats away at us. And that's absolutely true. I believe it's the only way you can live a happy life, free from this pain.

[TeddyBeer]

Whatever you did so far didn't work. For 7 years. He needs to learn the hard way. You should go to your local social services ASAP and let them intervene.

 

It's a bomb ready to explode. I know of someone who killed a family member after around 11 years as an alcoholic. Alcoholics often escalate in their drama, which means they need to drink more going on, it's an ongoing process towards destruction, that usually doesn't involve just themselves. One fine day, he reached the bottom. Relatives were kind of estranged. No neighbor thought it would have been a good idea to involve social workers. The consequence was - as you can imagine - tragic.

 

Also, as he frequently drives around anywhere, it is your duty to report that to authorities, so that he will lose his driving license. You might save lives just with that. I can't even think if you didn't and anything bad happened, you'd feel responsible for turning a blind eye, when you've been knowing the risky situation for years.

That is just awful!! And that trend you're talking about the drinking more; from when my father's parents died he has been drinking more. Understandable and excusable to me, for some time. But it has been 5 years now. And I would love to live on my own but since my father and little sister can't do househould!

 

I had my own place for quite some time, but things back home just went chaos. Now, I am still at home and doing all groceries, cooking, cleaning. laundry, everything and today my father was complaining i didn't get his Activia. The supermarket is a 2 minute walk away and he comes home panting... I mean that alone is worrying! (He did have a beer and vodka at 12:05, and then again at 12:55 beer and vodka.., maybe all that wear him out..).

[TeddyBeer]

Sorry I Lied

Okay he wasn't even going to the supermarket, he had the car parked out front and wanted to go get his cigarettes. He went out the front door but the door closed behind him, so he needed to walk to back gate (say 30 meter from the car). He came in panting!!!! and annoyed. I am so very worried and disappointed at the same time..

[MissCongeniality]

Sorry I Lied

Okay he wasn't even going to the supermarket, he had the car parked out front and wanted to go get his cigarettes. He went out the front door but the door closed behind him, so he needed to walk to back gate (say 30 meter from the car). He came in panting!!!! and annoyed. I am so very worried and disappointed at the same time..

Don't worry about putting in misinformation when discussing private matters. It's always best to keep matters private and doing what it takes to keep matters personal. He needs to make healthier choices. I'm sorry you have to go through this my advice is just say your peace and beg him to get help. If not just resign yourself to the inevitable outcome just don't blame yourself when it happens.

[anika99]

That is just awful!! And that trend you're talking about the drinking more; from when my father's parents died he has been drinking more. Understandable and excusable to me, for some time. But it has been 5 years now. And I would love to live on my own but since my father and little sister can't do househould!

 

I had my own place for quite some time, but things back home just went chaos. Now, I am still at home and doing all groceries, cooking, cleaning. laundry, everything and today my father was complaining i didn't get his Activia. The supermarket is a 2 minute walk away and he comes home panting... I mean that alone is worrying! (He did have a beer and vodka at 12:05, and then again at 12:55 beer and vodka.., maybe all that wear him out..).

 

If you are care taking your father than you are enabling him and even contributing to his drinking problem. Do not parent him. He is a grown man and he has to take responsibility for himself. I get that you have to take care of your sister but you don't need to be doing his laundry or running his errands . When you take care of him you are actually rewarding him for being an alcoholic. Why should he quit drinking when he knows he can depend on you whenever he's drunk or hungover?

 

As another poster suggested, look up Alanon. They were a tremendous help to me.

[preraph]

How old are you? My dad spiraled into alcoholism after he retired and divorced and he had dementia for 15 years and couldn't be left on his own. I get it. My dad was a good dad, except for having some anger problems, until my mom was no longer around to ground him. Then he went to hell in a handbasket. He let scummy people hang around and take advantage of him and his moral judgment got bad. I ended up his guardian and him in a nursing home he couldn't escape from because he got violent with the home healthcare staff when we tried to go that route first and leave him in his home, as we'd all like to be left in our homes.

 

If you are of legal age, my best advice to you is for you to move out and get your own place where you simply don't have to deal with it as often. And hope your mother stays plugged in so she's the caregiver when he gets really bad.

 

You can't make him change. Drunks have to do that themselves. You've got to take this burden off yourself. Save up, get two jobs and a roommate if you need to, and get out from under it. Then so you can still have a relationship with him, go visit only at a time of day you don't think he can be good and drunk yet, like in the morning.

 

I tell you, it can be a real pain. We took my dad on what we hoped would be a sober vacation, and he threw a fit to stop at every liquor store in the State of Arkansas. Then once he managed to get a bottle, he made an ass of himself at the lovely bed and breakfast place hitting on some poor girl trying to watch tv in the common area.

 

So please just give yourself a vacation from it and refuse to be around him when he's soused. Get your own space. It will be so much better. If you're still a teen and can't leave, my condolences, but start working after school and saving money now.

[TeddyBeer]

If you are care taking your father than you are enabling him and even contributing to his drinking problem. Do not parent him. He is a grown man and he has to take responsibility for himself. I get that you have to take care of your sister but you don't need to be doing his laundry or running his errands . When you take care of him you are actually rewarding him for being an alcoholic. Why should he quit drinking when he knows he can depend on you whenever he's drunk or hungover?

I have done that, but then he actually bought new clothes! And ordered fastfood to be delivered, that is even worse. So I just cook him balanced meals, it is better than when he 'cooks' himself.

 

As another poster suggested, look up Alanon. They were a tremendous help to me.

I still haven't tried, it is quite far from me and I want my father to participate too and that will take a lot of time and work.. might be able to get him to still. I have hope.

[TeddyBeer]

How old are you? My dad spiraled into alcoholism after he retired and divorced and he had dementia for 15 years and couldn't be left on his own. I get it. My dad was a good dad, except for having some anger problems, until my mom was no longer around to ground him. Then he went to hell in a handbasket. He let scummy people hang around and take advantage of him and his moral judgment got bad. I ended up his guardian and him in a nursing home he couldn't escape from because he got violent with the home healthcare staff when we tried to go that route first and leave him in his home, as we'd all like to be left in our homes.

 

If you are of legal age, my best advice to you is for you to move out and get your own place where you simply don't have to deal with it as often. And hope your mother stays plugged in so she's the caregiver when he gets really bad.

 

You can't make him change. Drunks have to do that themselves. You've got to take this burden off yourself. Save up, get two jobs and a roommate if you need to, and get out from under it. Then so you can still have a relationship with him, go visit only at a time of day you don't think he can be good and drunk yet, like in the morning.

 

I tell you, it can be a real pain. We took my dad on what we hoped would be a sober vacation, and he threw a fit to stop at every liquor store in the State of Arkansas. Then once he managed to get a bottle, he made an ass of himself at the lovely bed and breakfast place hitting on some poor girl trying to watch tv in the common area.

 

So please just give yourself a vacation from it and refuse to be around him when he's soused. Get your own space. It will be so much better. If you're still a teen and can't leave, my condolences, but start working after school and saving money now.

 

I am 26 yo now, so you can imagine I would love to have my own place. I just feel responsible now, and don't think I could leave until at least we as a family set some boundaries. However my mother also does not want to speak about my father's alcohol abuse, and once I leave I feel everything will just spiral out of control.

 

You are talking about dementia too, and I must say that is also a big part of my fears. My father's parents both suffered from it (my mom's too btw), so I would think he would avoid this high risk behavior: smoking and alcohol. And I just hate to think he will be the same as my grandmother, grandfather and my other grandfather while he could perhaps have prevented it. (yes it is also hereditary I know, but when you know that, avoid the risk factors at least..).

 

I do give myself vacations, and I intend to not worry about them at all in that time. This year I take a three month 'orphan' vacation, and I am looking forward to it so much. Last year however, when I had this vacation time I got message that my father thought he was having a heart attack at work (was 'just' extremely high blood pressure). So I hope I can relax. But thing is since my mother cut down her working hours (and started cooking again), his blood pressure is way up again. I am worried what will happen once I leave. Usually I can just isolate myself and boyfriend (LDR), but I'm a family person I can't not worry..

[SammySammy]

It seems this is a common story. My grandfather was a hard drinker, heavy smoker and womanizer until he got too old to do it. My father was very disappointed and frustrated for many years. Tried many different things to help his father change, but nothing worked. You can't change a person who doesn't want to change.

 

Though it may be difficult to watch because it's a person you love, we have to accept we can't change them. We're just left to deal with the consequences of their choices. An unfair and thankless task, but we do it. Because we love them.

[major_merrick]

OP - your struggle with your father is a sad one, but at least you still have some kind of relationship with him. You can talk and interact. There is still hope, especially if you can join some kind of support program.

 

My father wasn't that way. He beat and abused me and my little sister when we were growing up. He drank up all the money, and between his habits and my mom's we didn't even get to eat regularly. There's no hope in a situation like that. When you can still talk and there isn't violence involved, there is a possibility for change.

[anika99]

I have done that, but then he actually bought new clothes! And ordered fastfood to be delivered, that is even worse. So I just cook him balanced meals, it is better than when he 'cooks' himself.

 

So what? Let him do what he wants. You can't control him and he needs to take responsibility for himself. When you take care of him you are aiding his alcoholism. You say you hate his drinking so why are you helping him drink?

 

I still haven't tried, it is quite far from me and I want my father to participate too and that will take a lot of time and work.. might be able to get him to still. I have hope.

 

Alanon isn't for the alcoholic and they do not participate. Alanon is for you. They have online help so if you can post on this forum you can also look for them online.

[Tayla]

teddybeer, I noticed you are from the Nederlaans?

 

I resided there years ago, and what I found is most folks maintained sensible diets . matter of fact there are less available unhealthy foods. when my then boyfriend came to visit in America he was shocked at the all u can eat buffets or the waste of food. so unsure how your dad is getting foods that are in essences not part of your countries stock. Anyways, you are angry and disappointed.

 

Would you be angry if the person had cerebral palsy and constantly shook in your presences? constantly spilled things because their body is reacting to the disease? possibly so... Yet When an alcoholic exhibits the symptoms people "assume " it can be controlled, it can be "selfish". I walked that path, and from the outside view, it does seem that way. yet when the "disease" escalates to the level you describe, the control is long gone. As suggested and is true , He is accountable for owning this condition and recovering. He is not though responsible from a shaming stand point for carrying it.

Get to al-anon. We are by nature caring for our loved ones.. It's called concern, where it goes askew is covering up for them or complete denial , which is where most active alcoholics reside.

Wish I could tell you that the promises in the al non book do come true! it's one of the blessings from working thru the steps. If I could wrap these promises up and give them away I would! Yet it cannot be spoon fed... It's a work in progress..Take care of you. Doei doei!