She introduced him as her friend, but he isn't.

[moebius]

My friend (J) came to me past week and asked for advice about this I'm going to tell you. It's the second time I hear about something like this and I don't like it. I'd like to hear others opinions about it.

 

When he started dating his now girlfriend, who is a decent girl IMHO, they introduced each other their friends. She has many friends but one of them (her male best friend) was the one she saw more often. Sometimes along with J, sometimes on her own. J was ok with that, but then after about two years of dating J discovered this guy was her friend with benefits. He confronted her and she admitted she had a FWB relationship with this guy during four years before she meet my friend. But she said they weren't having sex since she went official with J. Now he's totally freaked out and they are in a break. But the girl is devastated over this, and so is he. He doesn't think she cheated on him.

 

I told him that technically she only omitted some information. He shouldn't be so mad about this. But at the same time I understand the a four-year relationship (yet when it was only physical) is pretty significant. And she should have introduced the guy as an ex partner at least.

[RRM321]

J is in the middle of a mine field.

GF should have disbanded the militia when she surrendered.

 

I think J will find his way out, and be okay.

[moebius]

Also he told me this, which made me understand him at some point: "I've been sitting with this guy and my girlfriend hundred of times, having coffee, talking, watching movies. I even got along well with him. And all this time I was being nice to the guy that used tu f*ck my girlfriend. I feel humiliated."

 

I think it's possible he finds the way out. I think there is nothing concrete to justify them breaking up. But at the same time I understand how he feels now. Even when she apologized many times already.

[RRM321]

Love is a battlefield.

[RRM321]

J will be okay because, the real casualty here is the GF.

 

By not adequately separating her past from her present, she resigns herself to relive it, thereby precluding any real future she might have with guys like J.

[Spikiera]

Oh man...I would be pretty mad if I was J as well. That's really disrespectful of her. She should have stopped having any sort of communication with the ex FWB. So awkward now.

 

J should absolutely move on.

[moebius]

Oh man...I would be pretty mad if I was J as well. That's really disrespectful of her. ... J should absolutely move on.

I understand that and I agree if we talk about this specific thing she did. But I'm sure she is a good girl. A year ago J had a car accident and was in the hospital, his insurance wasn't covering the surgery and his relatives/friends couldn't afford it. She used her own savings for this (a lot of money) and she doesn't want the money back. J should work ten years or more to get that much. I don't mean money buys love. I say you don't resign your life savings to help someone you don't care about.

[RRM321]

I don't mean to suggest they can't reconcile this but, it's a major hurdle.

I didn't say J stepped on a mine (singular) I said he's in a mine field.

 

This relationship needs some major work before anyone sounds the all-clear.

[Spikiera]

I understand that and I agree if we talk about this specific thing she did. But I'm sure she is a good girl. A year ago J had a car accident and was in the hospital, his insurance wasn't covering the surgery and his relatives/friends couldn't afford it. She used her own savings for this (a lot of money) and she doesn't want the money back. J should work ten years or more to get that much. I don't mean money buys love. I say you don't resign your life savings to help someone you don't care about.

 

I am not saying she's not a good girl...but how oblivious is she??? How can she not know it is really awkward to have a guy who was her FWB hanging out with her BF? As men, we have egos and we do not want to know anyone who has had sex with our women (well at least for the majority of us).

 

Do you mind sharing her age? And I guess also J's age.

[lolablue17]

I think there is nothing concrete to justify them breaking up.

 

There is everything concrete to justify them breaking up.

 

You treat it as ONE lie, a lie that she was lying once, and has one effect. In criminal law what she's done is a "continuous crime". It's like when a man uses violence toward his wife. He hits her every day. In that case you can't say that he commited only one crime, right?

 

Every time she was meeting her FWB, with or without J, is a different lie, and every time she should have told him, yet every time she's decided to continue lying.

 

Why did she lie? She used lies in order to achieve a direct benefit. To continue seeing her FWB. It was very important for her to continue seeing him, so she threw to the garbage the most primary important value in relationships - honesty.

 

Why would a guy want to be with a girl that has lied to him so many times, From day one of their relationship?! It's been said before that if some inserts the lying style into relationship, she is capable of lying in any other matter.

 

And why not focusing on the first lie that pops into my mind? Why does he believe that she didn't cheat? On what ground? Based on her word of honor? Based on a word of a continuous lier? She may have cheated or not, but who cares? How can he believe even one word she says from now on?

 

I can't even imagine how this can work. She has totally ruined it .

Edited February 23, 2016 by lolablue17

[PegNosePete]

I told him that technically she only omitted some information.

A lie of omission is still a lie.

[road]

My friend (J) came to me past week and asked for advice about this I'm going to tell you. It's the second time I hear about something like this and I don't like it. I'd like to hear others opinions about it.

 

When he started dating his now girlfriend, who is a decent girl IMHO, they introduced each other their friends. She has many friends but one of them (her male best friend) was the one she saw more often. Sometimes along with J, sometimes on her own. J was ok with that, but then after about two years of dating J discovered this guy was her friend with benefits. He confronted her and she admitted she had a FWB relationship with this guy during four years before she meet my friend. But she said they weren't having sex since she went official with J. Now he's totally freaked out and they are in a break. But the girl is devastated over this, and so is he. He doesn't think she cheated on him.

 

I told him that technically she only omitted some information. He shouldn't be so mad about this. But at the same time I understand the a four-year relationship (yet when it was only physical) is pretty significant. And she should have introduced the guy as an ex partner at least.

 

 

Note the bolded text:

 

 

How it makes her appear that she never cheated on him.

 

 

However notice her careful choice of words: she says she did not have sex with the FWB after they went official.

 

 

That does not say she was not sleeping with the both of them before they became official.

 

 

That is the difference between lying by commission and lying by omission. Though either way it is still lying.

 

 

Lies by omission are used in the hope that the person being told the lie will accept what was said as the truth.

 

 

He thought and was allowed to think that they were both not multi-dating when in fact she was mutli-dating and multi-sexing.

 

 

I have seen to many BH's years later on infidelity forums dealing with a WW. Regretting that they married her after they caught her cheating while they were dating. But married her anyway.

[Try]

Also he told me this, which made me understand him at some point: "I've been sitting with this guy and my girlfriend hundred of times, having coffee, talking, watching movies. I even got along well with him. And all this time I was being nice to the guy that used tu f*ck my girlfriend. I feel humiliated."

She did not tell him about the FWB relationship because she knew it was against the boundaries of their exclusive relationship. There must have been at least one time when she represented the FWB guy as having always been an exclusively platonic relationship. Every lie by omission after that reinforced the original lie. What makes this lie even worse is that the FWB guy and her have been on the inside working together to keep this a secret, leaving him for 4 years as the outside guy concerning this secret; nothing bonds like sharing a secret and nothing separates like being the person everyone is keeping the secret from. I do not care how nice she is, she cannot be trusted. BTW, the boyfriend has no way of knowing if they stopped having sex with each other immediately after she and the boyfriend became exclusive, or if they ever stopped; he cannot take her word for it because she is a proven liar.

[RRM321]

Slow down.

 

We don't know and shouldn't assume she's a liar who can't be redeemed, That's for J to decide. He's been dating her for 2 years - he must know something about her character.

 

The proof is in the choice she makes, now. If she accepts terms of contact J agrees are acceptable, then it implies she may be honest about the chronology. Their history might be of interest to J but, he is not entitled to know it. She is perfectly within her rights to have boundaries regarding when and what she discloses about her past relationships.

 

J can also negotiate his own friendship with the former FWB, and determine how safe he feels in both these relationships. There is no rule that says J has to resign himself to a black-and-white, all-or-nothing response.

Edited February 23, 2016 by RRM321

[Try]

We don't know and shouldn't assume she's a liar who can't be redeemed, That's for J to decide.

It is not an assumption but a fact that she has been lying to him by omission, and has been doing so for 4 years. Had someone not tipped him off, she would still be lying to him about this even now because she does not want to give up her relationship with this other man. Thus she is a proven liar that would still be lying to him if she had not been caught. Had she come forward on her own, that would be a different matter.

 

The proof is in the choice she makes, now. If she accepts terms of contact J agrees are acceptable, then it implies she may be honest about the chronology.

Your logic does not make sense. Her accepting his "terms of contact" has nothing to do with how honest she is.

 

Their history might be of interest to J but, he is not entitled to know it. She is perfectly within her rights to have boundaries regarding when and what she discloses about her past relationships.

I call bull on this. He is absolutely entitled to know the history that she has with this other man. It is one thing to not share history of someone no longer in her life, but this guy has not only been in her life as her best friend for the last 4 years, but was inserted into his life under false pretense for those same 4 years.

 

J can also negotiate his own friendship with the former FWB, and determine how safe he feels in both these relationships. There is no rule that says J has to resign himself to a black-and-white, all-or-nothing response.

She was not the only one that lied to him by omission. The other man also lied to him by omission as they both conspired behind his back to keep this secret from him. Sure he can decide for himself what to do, but he would be foolish to not demand full not contact for life with this other man, and that is only if he decides to stay with her.

[road]

It is not an assumption but a fact that she has been lying to him by omission, and has been doing so for 4 years. Had someone not tipped him off, she would still be lying to him about this even now because she does not want to give up her relationship with this other man. Thus she is a proven liar that would still be lying to him if she had not been caught. Had she come forward on her own, that would be a different matter.

 

Your logic does not make sense. Her accepting his "terms of contact" has nothing to do with how honest she is.

 

I call bull on this. He is absolutely entitled to know the history that she has with this other man. It is one thing to not share history of someone no longer in her life, but this guy has not only been in her life as her best friend for the last 4 years, but was inserted into his life under false pretense for those same 4 years.

 

She was not the only one that lied to him by omission. The other man also lied to him by omission as they both conspired behind his back to keep this secret from him. Sure he can decide for himself what to do, but he would be foolish to not demand full not contact for life with this other man, and that is only if he decides to stay with her.

 

 

So true. The GF and the OM conspired to lie to the BF for 4 years. Those lies kept the GF and the OM bonded. A bond that excluded the BF.

 

 

Dating is the job interview for marriage. This GF has failed the interview.

[moebius]

Do you mind sharing her age? And I guess also J's age.

 

She is 26/27, J is 32 this year.

[RRM321]

It is not an assumption but a fact that she has been lying to him by omission, and has been doing so for 4 years. Had someone not tipped him off, she would still be lying to him about this even now because she does not want to give up her relationship with this other man. Thus she is a proven liar that would still be lying to him if she had not been caught. Had she come forward on her own, that would be a different matter.

 

You don't have enough information to support these judgments.

 

I call bull on this. He is absolutely entitled to know the history that she has with this other man. It is one thing to not share history of someone no longer in her life, but this guy has not only been in her life as her best friend for the last 4 years, but was inserted into his life under false pretense for those same 4 years.

 

Those would be your terms. You're not in this relationship.

 

She was not the only one that lied to him by omission. The other man also lied to him by omission as they both conspired behind his back to keep this secret from him. Sure he can decide for himself what to do, but he would be foolish to not demand full not contact for life with this other man, and that is only if he decides to stay with her.

 

Still not enough information to support your judgments, and foolish is not for you to define.

Edited February 24, 2016 by RRM321

[RRM321]

As men, we have egos and we do not want to know anyone who has had sex with our women (well at least for the majority of us).

 

This is a quality that makes you boys not men.

Meaning, this is a problem you own, not her.

[moebius]

Thank for all the feed back guys. I agree at some extent at least with all of you. But I'm a bit unsure about what to think. Also, don't take what I wrote about her as the final truth because if is what I remember J told me. Maybe it isn't 100% accurate.

 

Things are getting worst because as I knew will happen, I'm now standing in the middle of this. She contacted me this morning on FB asking how J was because he's not returning her calls. She assumed I knew about this incident but she asked me how much I knew. I told her the truth about what I know and how J is doing. She was sad. She asked for my phone number (called me in the afternoon). She believes sex is not big deal, she thought that staying in contact with this guy she likes as a friend was totally ok. But she knew J doesn't think like that about sex. Then she hid this. She thought eventually J was going to change his mind about that and she was going to tell him about this guy. I explained her how hurt J was and I felt it was kind of revealing for her. She knew she screwed up his relationship but she wasn't sure why. I think she understands now at some point how J feels like. She said she is ready to cut any contact with him for ever, if that makes J come back with her. At some point I told her she should have all this conversation with J, and I was going to talk to him first.

 

I called J and tole her she contacted me, and most of what we talked. J wants to come back with her (he said that before I went into details of our talk with her). He is not sure though. And I'm not sure what to tell him. I'm going to talk with him tomorrow again.

 

To those who say she lied, you are right she did. J is really sure she didn't cheat on him. I don't know why he is so sure. It's true, she could have cheated but I don't think we can assume that. I think she didn't cheat on him, I have no proof, it's intuition. I've seen her how she looks at him, how she treats him. She loves him to death. I'm confident she only made this huge mistake of lying to him. And she regrets what she did.

[Try]

You don't have enough information to support these judgments.

There is more than "enough information to support" the fact that she and the other man have repeatedly and routinely lied by omission for 4 years. That makes her and the other man both liars. A fact that you seem to not want to admit.

 

Those would be your terms. You're not in this relationship.

"Those would be your terms" and "You're not in this relationship", are both pointless statements in light of the fact that the OP asked "to hear others opinions".

 

Still not enough information to support your judgments, and foolish is not for you to define.

Again, there is more than "enough information to support" that she has lied by omission for 4 years and did so with the other man. Let the OP decide if they agree that it is foolish.

[moebius]

This is a quality that makes you boys not men.

Meaning, this is a problem you own, not her.

 

I don't suscribe 100% to Spikiera point of view but I understand his point. It's true that wanting to know nothing about our girlfriend past looks childish. But truth is there are lots of people out there (girls and guys) who feel like that. And I say FEEL like that. Because it's something you feel even when you understand you aren't entitled to judge what happened before you. For us (those who feel like that) it's better not to think about that past. We know there is a past, but we don't want to hear about it. It's the past, there is no reason to bring it to the present. And when you do bring it, then the past becomes the present.

When she made her former FWB befriends J, she made the past meet the present. Even if she now had a totally platonic relationship with this guy.

 

I saw this guy once in person some time ago. Today I saw his picture in her FB and I can tell this guy is totally challenging for J (physically). He's the typical guy all girls would find attractive, I think. And I'm sure J thinks the same. I recommended her to remove those pictures from there.

[moebius]

Try, RRM321, Spikiera please don't fight over this. It's true I asked for others thoughts and I've got them for sure. This implies different points of view and I'm glad we have more than one here. I know this girl for a year and a half at least, and yet it's difficult to make a decision. Sure you can't be more certain than I am. I think every one has a point here. I think everyone is right at some degree. But there are things we all don't know or we can be sure about.

 

J will have to make a decision base on what he knows and what he thinks. I'll give him some hints about different points of view from here. And I hope that will give him some tools to make up his mind.

[todreaminblue]

my ex introduces em as his sister...i correct him....because we have kids together and we are not together now...and he certainly isnt my brother..but we do have an almost brother/sister friendship..i have to set people straight when he confuses them by telling them im his sister.....i am the older sister according to him...even though...he is actually older than me.......

 

i think its better to be honest....any way you look at telling someone about your past exes....or fwb situations.....honesty is best..and omitting is as good as lying.....i understand why your friend is upset with her......deb

[lolablue17]

1. She was lying to J for 2 years and she still "doesn't understand what's the big deal". Interesting concept for relationships - "It's OK to lie to your Bf in order to get some benefits, what's the big deal".

 

2. She now tries to trade with it and say "If" J wants her back, then she's willing to cut all contact with this guy... All that said while keep contacting him today, probably talking with him about J and the situation, and by that humiliating J some more, now as we speak. If she understood she screwed this, she would first cut contact with her FWB, and from this point trying her luck with J, not as a trade.

 

All I can say is that for me, lying and trading are 2 words that cannot come in to my relationships, EVER! If J thinks otherwise, it's his life, not mine.