im so upset im shaking

[scarlyjones]

Originally posted by miss fortune

I realize I have the upper hand here as this was totally him at fault, but I still feel awful like I am being too harsh about it.

.

 

 

I think that you are going to have problems with ANY relationship you get into with this attitude. One person may be hurt or angry,...and one person may be in the wrong....................but in a loving relationship,..if you ever start thinking you have "the upper hand" .........in my opinion, you arent ready for a relationship. This isnt a game of Chess. This isnt a fist fight. Also,...you seem to be a very needy person. He must tell you every little thing he does ONLY because YOU'RE insecure. How about you take care of your insecurity problem so other dont have to walk on eggshells around you? I mean seriously.......just because they have breasts, he isnt allowed to have them as friends? You JUST said like four times,...you believe that he would never cheat. If thats true, then why cant he have female friends that you dont need the outtings play by play from? Its either that YOU are very insecure,...or you are lying about believing he would never cheat. Which is it?

[miss fortune]

you are lying about believing he would never cheat. Which is it?

 

I believe he would never cheat but for him to intentionally leave out a huge detail like "I spent the entire day at the beach" is something that draws a red flag. For him to leave out details is almost like lying, youre saying I should disregard something like that?

 

Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Lets face it, he was in the wrong by letting something like that slip and by intentionally not telling me.

 

I am not saying I am better than him or keeping score. This is not a game you are right. Although I think your harshness could be toned down considering I am not in the best emotional state right now. But thanks for your insight.

[Treasa]

I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, I don't think he should have gone to the beach with her without at least telling you first.

 

On the other hand, my boyfriend sounds like your boyfriend. My boyfriend has always been the type to whom girls have remarked, "You're such a good friend. I like talking to you." However, because he's not ideal-looking, he's only had two girlfriends before me, and they both broke up with him for other guys who were more good-looking or whatever.

 

Because of this, and also because of other factors in his life, he values his friendships very highly. He has a LOT of friends, both male and female, and gets on very well with his coworkers too (most of whom are female), to the point of having lunch with them or hanging out with them. When I used to get angry or insecure, he would tell me that he has every right to hang out with his friends, that he cares about most of the people in his life deeply, and that he'd never cheat on me. And I truly believe this. I don't think he'd ever cheat on me. Nevertheless, my own insecurities and imagination made it really hard for me to stomach these friendships. After a while I realized I had to look at my own feelings. Just because someone here said he probably cheated on you doesn't mean he did. No one here knows your situation.

 

My boyfriend can be very moody, selfish, and self-absorbed. To be honest, when I'm not being insecure, I realize that very few women out there would stay with him. I, however, adore him. Sometimes I don't know why, but the fact that I'm so "into" him just seems to fuel my insecurities.

 

My point of all this rambling is that I think you need some introspection. Regardless of whether or not he did anything wrong doesn't matter right now. You need to learn to control or get rid of your insecurities. I know it's hard. I've been cheated on, dumped, you name it, and that leaves a lot of baggage behind. But if you truly meant something to him, he'll be willing to communicate with you.

[scarlyjones]

Almost and did are two different things. You dont get 20 yrs for armed robbery for ALMOST robbing a bank. You dont ask the doctor "Well Doctor,..am I pregnant?" and he says "Almost" Some things in life are an exact science. He didnt lie to you. Did he? No. He didnt tell you something that YOU think he should have. In your mind he should have told you. Maybe in HIS mind, he doesnt think he had to. Two different views. Just because YOU think something,..doesnt make it right. I think you are over reacting. He hasnt done anything wrong yet. You seem to be biting his head off for something you think he MIGHT do......or EXPECT him to do. But if he didnt yet,..then how can he possibly deserve the consequences?

[Horse]

What I said may not be encouraging or what you want to hear, but it is an opinion from a guy who has been in a similar situation as your guy.

 

I have always had at least a couple female friends. I've never cheated on anyone. I have had girlfriends that weren't cool with the time that I spent with my friends. To me, it seemed like they were unreasonably jealous or controlling. I can understand why your guy didn't tell you. I don't think it's right, but I understand him trying to avoid making you jealous and starting a big fight over going to the beach.

 

Those relationships never worked. I always felt crowded and I left so that I can have some time to myself and some freedom. It wasn't about any particular friend it was about me being able to be me.

 

Now I'm married to a great woman who trusts me. I try to tell her everything because she doesn't get upset about every little thing that I do with someone else.

 

Even if he calls, it doesn't sound like your relationship will work. He's not willing to give up his friends and you aren't willing to trust him enough to have friends. If you really trusted him, you wouldn't get upset when he spends time with his friends.

 

This is just an opinion from a different POV.

[Horse]

What I said may not be encouraging or what you want to hear, but it is an opinion from a guy who has been in a similar situation as your guy.

 

I have always had at least a couple female friends. I've never cheated on anyone. I have had girlfriends that weren't cool with the time that I spent with my friends. To me, it seemed like they were unreasonably jealous or controlling. I can understand why your guy didn't tell you. I don't think it's right, but I understand him trying to avoid making you jealous and starting a big fight over going to the beach.

 

Those relationships never worked. I always felt crowded and I left so that I can have some time to myself and some freedom. It wasn't about any particular friend it was about me being able to be me.

 

Now I'm married to a great woman who trusts me. I try to tell her everything because she doesn't get upset about every little thing that I do with someone else.

 

Even if he calls, it doesn't sound like your relationship will work. He's not willing to give up his friends and you aren't willing to trust him enough to have friends. If you really trusted him, you wouldn't get upset when he spends time with his friends.

 

This is just an opinion from a different POV.

[miss fortune]

Treasa,

 

I am very curious how you think I should go about this situation because your b/f sounds exactly like mine. Mine is not the best looking (to others, I think he is gorgeous) and has only had two previous LT relationships -- both left him for other guys...So your guy sounds exactly like mine...how long have you been together?

 

Horse, Treasa and Scarlyjones. you have all made very good points and apparently I am being too vindictive of this situation.

 

All I care about is fixing what has happened so that whatever happens is for the best interest for both of us. He wrote me a five page letter explaining to me all the reasons he loves me, and why he needs females in his life. I agreed to swallow the idea that he will always have female friends as long as he doesnt intentionally hide anything from me, since that just makes him look suspicious. Or at least it does to me.

 

We have been thru some VERY trying times together, I was there for him for his parents split, both of his 18 and 20 yr old cats' death, him losing friends and hes been there for me thru emotionally bad times, thru a miscarriage, and we have moved thru it all ok. He is also my first -- he was not a virgin but I was...

 

What should I do? Do I wait for him to come to me to talk about it so we can resolve our misunderstandings and move on from here? Or should I contact him and try to make amends, acknowledge that because I trust him, he can do what he needs to do and does not need to check in with me (Although it does take some getting used to, we dont change overnight)?

[Treasa]

We've been together for a little more than a year.

 

To be honest, I think Horse gives some great advice. You really should listen to him. Give him his time at the beach, but then maybe call him and apologize. However, don't push and don't ask for anything.

[tanbark813]

I don't think you're being overly harsh. I also think you shouldn't call him first to apologize. You seem like an intelligent girl and based on your self-proclaimed pickiness and description of your bf, he sounds like an intelligent guy. Yeah, he did something stupid, but I don't get the impression that he's a stupid person. That being said, he knows he f*cked up and he knew before going to the beach that it would cause problems for him to do so. That's why he was quiet about it. That, IMO, is the core problem.

 

I also agree with LB that his friendship with this other girl is of a higher priority than you may think.

[miss fortune]

Thanks tanbark...that helps a lot

 

Do you think he will call to apologize? It's been 1.5 days now...I would like to think he'd have done it by now but I dont know. I just want to talk to him, but if you dont think I should call I am tempted to take ur advice because ur a guy...

[magda]

Originally posted by miss fortune

Magda,

 

>If you really don't think he MEANT to do anything wrong and that he isn't cheating, you really ought to talk to him about it. This - your jealousy and insecurity - should be his problem, too. If he is not going to work with you on that (reaching an understanding that is a compromise) then the relationship will have to end.

 

Do you suggest I call him? Or wait for him to contact me? I really honestly truly believe he did not cheat. Or ever will. But I do wonder why he is so insistent on making this girl a priority when he knows how I feel about her.

 

What would u do?

You're really getting some conflicting advice in your responses... I don't know what you should do, but when I have a fight with my boyfriend I usually just own up to my part in its escalation. That is the first step to resolving and he always appreciates when I do that. Having the upper hand only "matters" if the relationship is ending. Keeping points and trying to get power has no place in an honest and open relationship. If you have hope for keeping your relationship, you have nothing to lose by making the first move.

 

Now, our relationships are different. But I think that in my situation I would probably call him up and say, "Look, I'm sorry if I overreacted. I was upset because I thought we had an agreement that you'd let me know. It really makes me feel insecure when you go out with other women.. when I found out you'd gone to the beach alone with her it upset me because it really sounded like a romantic date. I should've let you explain yourself and I'm sorry for leaving in a huff. I really have to keep that in check in the future and I'm trying to work on that, I would apprectiate your help. Can we talk about what happened now?" --From there, based on his responses and my totally honest attempt at being logical and communicating my feelings as calmly and rationally as possible, it would become clear whether this is a relationship dealbreaker or not.

[Treasa]

Originally posted by magda

Now, our relationships are different. But I think that in my situation I would probably call him up and say, "Look, I'm sorry if I overreacted. I was upset because I thought we had an agreement that you'd let me know. It really makes me feel insecure when you go out with other women.. when I found out you'd gone to the beach alone with her it upset me because it really sounded like a romantic date. I should've let you explain yourself and I'm sorry for leaving in a huff. I really have to keep that in check in the future and I'm trying to work on that, I would apprectiate your help. Can we talk about what happened now?"

 

That's pretty much what I mean when I say you should apologize. If you want to dump someone, fine. But then don't cry and say you want them back. My current (yes, current) boyfriend dumped me three times, although only two of them really count as breakups. However, as much as I love him, I told him that this was his last chance. I won't be returning a fourth time. Don't dump me unless you're sure you don't ever want me again.

[tanbark813]

IMO, an apology would come across as a condonement of behavior regardless of the context of the call in which it was placed. 1.5 days isn't very long, and I'm not really surprised you haven't heard from him. If you were to continue your resolve to not contact him first, I am guessing he would call you once he got back from his trip and everything had a chance to settle in.

[Treasa]

Originally posted by tanbark813

IMO, an apology would come across as a condonement of behavior regardless of the context of the call in which it was placed. 1.5 days isn't very long, and I'm not really surprised you haven't heard from him. If you were to continue your resolve to not contact him first, I am guessing he would call you once he got back from his trip and everything had a chance to settle in.

 

You make a very valid point, but at some point she should still apologize.

[magda]

Originally posted by tanbark813

IMO, an apology would come across as a condonement of behavior regardless of the context of the call in which it was placed.

Not if you're talking to someone mature who wants the relationship to work. If he's so immature and you can't communicate with the guy, why even bother? Relationships are supposed to be mutually supportive. If you can't even apologize for what YOU did wrong out of fear that you're taking ownership of the entire problem, I don't see the point in pursuing the relationship any further - it doesn't have much going for it.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Treasa

You make a very valid point, but at some point she should still apologize.

 

I agree, I just think that it's in her best interest to not initiate that.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by magda

Not if you're talking to someone mature who wants the relationship to work.

 

If that were the case she wouldn't have found out about the beach in the manner that she did.

[miss fortune]

quote:Originally posted by magda

Not if you're talking to someone mature who wants the relationship to work.

 

 

If that were the case she wouldn't have found out about the beach in the manner that she did.

 

So you think he is sabotaging the relationship on purpose? That he doesnt want it to work by him not telling me?

 

I am getting so much mixed feedback I am totally lost. It's not that I am worried about who has the "upper hand" as I said (and shouldnt have because it didnt come out right), and its not that I feel I shouldn't apologize because I do want to, and will.

 

Mature or not, me calling him first does seem like I am trying to fix it, and although I do want it taken care of, I dont feel I should be the one initiating contact.

 

There are so many varying opinions on here. On one hand its nice to get a broad spectrum but at the same time, I am kinda back to the drawing board

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by miss fortune

So you think he is sabotaging the relationship on purpose? That he doesnt want it to work by him not telling me?

 

I wasn't trying to imply that I don't think he wants it to work, I meant that if he were mature and straightforward, he would have told you about the beach in the first place.

 

We all have our opinions but I don't think there's an obvious "should" here. There are pros and cons to whatever you decide to do. But that, of course, isn't very helpful either.

[Horse]

This is a tough spot to be in. You told him this was a deal breaker, if you cave then you undermine your position in this relationship. On the other hand, he may be to the point where he is close to giving up. He may take the break up seriously and may already be working on getting over you. Some guys just don't look back.

 

I would apologize for the way that you reacted, but not appologize for being upset. He screwed up. I'm sure he knows it. If you bridge the gap he will most likely appologize for not telling you and try to explain. Then you two have a dialogue started and you can start working things out.

 

I don't know him. He may be the kind of guy who can easily swallow his pride and crawl back asking for forgiveness.

 

At the very least, send him a small gesture that will let him know that you are willing to work this out.

[miss fortune]

I wasn't trying to imply that I don't think he wants it to work, I meant that if he were mature and straightforward, he would have told you about the beach in the first place.

 

We all have our opinions but I don't think there's an obvious "should" here. There are pros and cons to whatever you decide to do. But that, of course, isn't very helpful either.

 

Ok yes I can agree with that. The not-calling-him part is going to kill me though, especially because last week some time he made some random comment about how I dont call him enough, he's always feeling like he has to call me. I didnt realize I was doing that, and after he made the observation I made it a point to try harder.

 

I think he needs a lot of reassurance from me but in a different way than I need it from him. I need to know that things are ok between us and I think he needs to know that I am not cheating. He once made a comment that "every other girl I was with did, so why not you too?" I was like " you cant seriously think that do you?" and he just shrugged it off... Then he makes comments all the time that I must be with my other boyfriend if I'm not answering my phone or not calling him back right away. Not in a mean way but playful. So I cant help but think he might be waiting to see if he means enough to me for me to call him to work it out. It's hard to say, but the thought has crossed my mind. If he doesnt call me til he gets back from vacation, this week is going to royally suck I'll tell ya that much. The anticipation is awful.

[Horse]

Originally posted by tanbark813

 

 

I wasn't trying to imply that I don't think he wants it to work, I meant that if he were mature and straightforward, he would have told you about the beach in the first place.

 

 

 

true, but I can understand his hesitation to tell her, if he know he is going to have to listen to an hour of griping when he tells her.

 

It's not right. It is the kind of thing that creates mistrust and could destroy their relationship, but it is somewhat understandable, especially with a relatively young guy.

[HoneyWheat]

if i were you i made make plans for the weekend....he's not going to be here...why should you stew at home thinking about this...if he's just gonna blow you off...

 

if you can do it and not feel guilty i would start making plans to hang with the girls at a bar or something...if it won't bother you only...cuz if you can't deal with it its not worth it

 

but its better than staying home and stewing and then being even more pissed for being blown off for a week

 

another thing....he may have it in his head that he will punish you by waiting to call for 2 or 3 weeks....in other words he's mad at you and the way you behaved...he probably thinks you over reacted even if he believes he screwed up

 

 

but i will say i think its a dumb rule that he can't be friends or talk with other women..so in a way you did it to yourself...

 

and he's a passive aggressive a/hole for agreeing to something he didn't really agree with....

 

you might want to think about that.

[HoneyWheat]

oh when you go out with the girls i would go so far as to say you should hit on attractive men that you see there that you might like to go out with

 

no point with ones your not attracted to

 

only do this if it gives you satisfaction...i think it will...but if it makes you feel guilty, i hope not, then just hit on the guys...if he hears he'll be pissed and this might push it even more into him feeling justified to end things or up the ante

 

you have to decide...this is definitely a power and control thing for you...not sure about him though....i bet he feels resentful if you are the one with all the power

 

 

relationships are suppsed to be equal....if you make unreasonable demands people tend to resent that and get even with it one way or another

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by HoneyWheat

if you make unreasonable demands people tend to resent that and get even with it one way or another

 

It's sad that so many people consider honesty an "unreasonable demand".