Did sex with your WS feel... hollow after the affair?

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow!! It's a big eye opener for me. Also--lady designer 4 years out and still...

I wonder it that special part of it ever comes back? I wonder if the WS still has that because the BS hasn't cheated?

 

Six years out.....

[dreamingoftigers]

This all makes me wonder...if the BS is still harboring feelings of resentment (that's what i think I am hearing...please tell me if I am wrong)...and it affects the intimacy of sex....then why do they remain in the relationship?

 

Not resent. It's not about that. It's more like the protective borders surrounding the marriage are gone.

 

Like his adultery and porn issues fried out the part of his brain that made him "connecty." (New word).

 

I see things improving but the recovery has been so long and so volatile for so long, that freedom of sexual expression isn't there yet. It just is not.

 

If the WS is doing everything to make the BS feel safe.....if they are remorseful...and the BS has given forgiveness....then why does the sex feel hollow?

 

The adultery ended awhile ago but the volatility didn't until he sought treatment. My guard is quite up. And will be for probably a couple more years. I've let my guard down completely to him before and really paid for it. I don't take it so personally anymore. It truly is linked to his mental health and history. He has made many many many strides toward treatment, health abd marital harmony. Much morr than I would have expected. But his understanding of my feelings, regarding him and his behaviours, onky really started this summer. For years he really expected everything to just "blow over" and when it didn't he would be a total arse. MC has helped a lot. We go weekly.

 

I do deeply love him and honestly believe that he loves me too. Frankly, the depth of damage that occurred to him before he met me was not something I could fully comprehend the effects of. I don't want to very deeply into it, but it is quite profound.

 

If the two of us with our backgrounds can make it inna marriage and have it be healthy, well, there's good chances for anyone who wants that.

 

I understand....fully engaging in the relationship....will forever carry a fear of repeated betrayal.....but I also think the relationship has to eventually be restored to some degree of trust and safety. That's what reconciliation is. I think the intimacy has to be restored and if it isn't....there must be issues that still need to be addressed. I think if John...felt hollow....I would want to know so I could try to help him to feel fulfilled....to feel safe....and to feel loved.

 

So my question to those who feel hollow...have you told your spouse? and if you have not....why? and how do you think they can help you? What can they do for you?

 

He is aware of the depth of our intimate issues.

 

What we can do for one another remains a constant MC topic.

 

I don't think either one if us is trying to withhold anything from one another.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

Can I tell you something? I want you to know that your husbands did not think less of you...their actions tell you they did...but here is the truth...

They were too involved in thinking about themselves. I never thought about john...I thought about me. I think we as cheaters get so caught up in ourselves that our spouses are removed from our minds.....not replaced by another man or another woman....replaced by US. Our focus becomes US. I never purposely set out to hurt John....I did not THINK about him....if i had been thinking about john...i would never have gone to lunch with mr. professor. Do you see what I am trying to say?

 

I hate to hear you question your worth or your value in the eyes of your WH .....

 

I am familiar fro. This perspective from my mother actually. She stepped out long before she married and said very clearly that it had nothing to do with my father. She simply wanted something in the moment etc

 

Unfortunately for me that practically describes the greater part of my childhood as well. Both parents knowing that they "should do" xyz but simply "wanting something in the moment." Like my father's alcoholism or my mother's shaming.

 

They knew the long-term ramifications. My mother complains to this day about how her family treated her, yet they treat my almost identically and in some cases much worse. Even my mother's family has definitely taken notice and commented on it.

 

My marriage became much the same, I was simply "forgotten about" in the heat of heat.

 

And then simply disregarded. It became a point of argument where I would bluntly say, "you treat me as though I don't even exist." And it was very true at the time. He would talk to me like some kind of parental figure. It was like he couldn't see ME at all, but some kind of "mother-figure cardboard cut-out." He would accuse me of x, y, or z. I finally got to a point where I would say in frustration, "seriously. I am NOT your mother! I am not her. Quit it!"

 

I had to argue even to assert my own feelings. He would accuse me of not actually being hurt, but playing some kind of trick to make him "feel bad." And that became sharply worded over time. "Fine, don't believe it then. My life's purpose isn't to convince you I feel a perfectly valid way over been treated like crap. Deal with it or don't. But I don't owe you a detailed measure of prtof that I actually FEEL how I FEEL."

 

So much push and pull, until I finally just gave up trying to explain myself at all. There was no point, he didn't want to listen and I got sick of him twisting the things I did say and trying to pick fights over the dumbest crap by impuning my character. I think a big part of it was "testing." And that can only go on for so long.

 

I watched my mother passed test after test for over 30 years with my father only to "fail" one when she got shingles and so he cheated on her.

 

I decided to stop playing. When that happened, he threatened divorce. I said "Fine. Go get one and stop wasting my time. You know I'm not going to go and get one right now. You know my stance. You know exactly when and why I will get one. So go and do it or quit wasting my time." The shock registered pretty deeply.

 

There was something else that came through too. I read The Verbally Abusive Relationship and it really struck me the things me was accusing me of. He accused me of being "needy" and "controlling." Yet here I supported him while he often took off and behaved VERY recklessly. He would disappear for weekends or a week at a time. He would accuse me of being "unstable" because I absolutely was crushed by his behaviour and belittling of me. Then I realized he was 110% projecting all of HIS garbage onto me. He was reckless, unstable, needy and controlling.

 

Once I realized that, I also pinpointed the cycle and realized how much he needed me to be "down and belittled" for him to keep his garbagey behaviour going. He had bonded to me in a sick way. He couldn't deal with his own feelings so he just projected them onto me. I was a pretty easy target. Always trying to reason and empathize with him etc. I watched my mother do the same thing with my father to this day. She viewed my father as a "hurt kid." But really he was a brutal man that victimized others physically, Verbally and emotionally.

 

Once I realized my husband was no longer a "hurt kid" bit a hurting adult that would never feel more than temporarily better by lashing out at me, it cleared that up for me pretty quickly. I put up with it for over half of a decade before I even realized it! My husband wasn't a "hurt kid" but his behaviour was hurting OUR kid and all I could do was guarantee my kid a MOM instead of losing both her parents. One to being an alcoholic/abuser/cheater and the other being lost in a sea of trying to "help and fix it" instead of protecting her from it.

 

I said "no freaking way. I am not just NOT his mom. I am not mine either." At one point I heard the "needy" accusation from him and very bluntly said, "I've really heard enough of that. You might claim I am emotionally dependent or needy. But the truth is, when you disappear, I go through Hell. But then I get past it and function just fine, if not better on my own. I provide for our daughter and I've provided for you for years. You haven't paid back money you owed me from us separating and you sit here telling me I'm needy while expecting me to out you through school onntop of it all and make you the financial priority. Maybe I am needy, but you are no better than I am in that case, and I am not going to listen to you look down on me and nudge me anymore." Mouth shut for a bit.

 

Another occasion he remarked about me being unstable. I said very simply. "Try living with this. Try it out for a week and see how you do. I went on a PLANNED excursion for three weeks and you couldn't not drink for that time period. Then you bkamed me for it. You are relapsing all of the time, disappearing. You step out of our marriage and you want to call me unstable. Maybe you haven't noticed, but I am actually THE MOST STABLE adult you've had in your life, for your ENTIRE LIFE. None of the adults that were supposed to be there for you were stable and stood by you. You want to complain? Go complain to them. Considering the garbage over been through over the last five years, I am pretty proud of myself actually. So any problem you have with that is yours solely."

 

That was another major turning point. He really acknowledged that I had been there, and tried to get him help etc etc etc for him more than anyone in his life and that was after being blindsided by this whole other persona and life he was leading.

 

Well, turns out he actually cared for me more than I actually believed at the time and more than he had acted like on a long time. Treatment really sunk in for him and I'm glad. I knew the day he broke down in the parking lot after they reviewed responsibility and relationships etc. Was a major turning point for him. He recognized all by himself that how he acted "must have been torture" for me. He was right. I didn't gloat or shame him. It was the first time I felt and believed that he actually "got it" to some degree.

 

Sex being hollow. Hmpf. I am not 110% sure who I am dealing with here. Maybe 90-95% sure.

 

Sex is a big deal to me. It really is. But I am not going to betray myself by pretending that I am really safe and special while we still have unresolved baggage being handled.

 

I'll be fair to him, he's a totally different person away from anything addictive to him. His whole character and personality changes. The man I have been with over the last year is completely different than the one before. This guy is much more like the man I dated, much kinder like him.

 

As long as he is away from his poison, I can be open, loving, fun and live..... But when he drinks from that cask, oh HELL NO.

 

And frankly, over the next while, I will cut him out like cancer if he decides to put myself and my children through anything even remotely close to that again. He will walk the plank and I will not look back. It's pretty hard to feel that way about someone who also holds your heart in his hand.

[Liam1]

=ShatteredLady;6797847}

 

One of the 'abuses' 12 years ago was my H venomously critiquing my 'performance' straight after having sex (everything from how I feel too the noises I make). Vulnerable, naked, humiliated, clutching my sheet like armor. It was horrible. It's all I hear & feel now, triggers, flashbacks.

 

Shattered lady, that must have been soul destroying. My wife, at the time of my affair was no longer interested in sex, but I like to believe I would not have done that to my wife, if we were having sex during the affair.

 

Maybe this will help:

 

What I did do to my wife instead was to pick fights with her. I picked fights with her over all the habits I once found adorable about her.

 

It took a bit of counseling for me to realize that I was doing this to demonize my wife.

 

The counselor claims that I felt so much guilt that I had to make myself believe that I did not love my wife and so I picked on the things I did once love about her.

 

My counselor told me that this is common in affairs.

 

She claims it is a good indication albeit very painful to the BS.

 

She claims it shows that the person is conflicted and feeling guilt.

 

The counselor said the cheaters she really worries about are the ones that smile to the spouse's face and carry on as if nothing has changed. The ones that can have sex without acting differently, or the ones that buy the wife gifts to throw her off the track or to make themselves feel okay.

 

The says being able to smile and carry on as usual indicates a lack of guilt and conflict.

 

Don't know if the helps, but I hope it does, some at least.

[Whoknew30]

Being both a BS & WS, sex never felt hollow after. My H went through hysterical body, so that's pretty much all we did after our DDay month. It's kinda what helped us create that "bond" again.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you so much Liam! I call my H Mr Alien. I truly thought that I was loosing my mind at times. I knew something was VERY wrong. I wouldn't treat someone that I hate the way he treated me. I guess that's good?!?!

[RecentChange]

No it never felt hollow (for me at least!)

 

After his affair, we went through hysterical bonding bit.... was having a TON of sex, and I enjoyed it. Can't say it felt hollow - but I also have never put a heavy emotional attachment to sex.

 

After my affair... more hysterical bonding. I don't know if it feels "hollow" for him.

 

I can say, after his A - when we had sex, I never thought about "her" or them together or any of that. And I am pretty damn confident in my "skills" I am sure I am the better lay

 

And now (we are just a month out from my D day) - I do know "it" (my cheating) comes into his mind when we have sex, he'll make comments - "this is what you wanted?" "are you mine?"

 

And little back story, he had a short term (one week) physical affair while on a business trip, that turned into an emotional affair that lasted, oh a few months, even after I found out - when I finally put my foot down. Me or her, it ended. 5 years later, I cheated, more than once, purely physical, no emotional attachment (and he knows me well enough to know what I am about / capable of)

 

We never insulted each other, or tore each other down. I was nothing but remorseful for the pain I caused him, and explained... that it wasn't because I didn't love him, I was being selfish. And also explained.... that I learned I like some stuff I didn't know I liked - like a being submissive to a dom.

 

He cheated for "selfish" reasons as well, chasing a high / emotional support etc. Neither of us ever blamed the other for the cheating. Or made any claims that the affair partner was better in any way.

 

Gosh I couldn't imagine saying things like like Shattered lady's H has said. CRUELTY! If my "AP" did anything "better" than my BF, I would never ever tell him that (ugh, him finding magnum condoms was bad enough!)

[TrustedthenBusted]

7 months past DDay.

 

Despite having regular, fantastic sex with my WH, I more often than not walk away from our encounters feeling like only my most physical and base needs were met, and nothing more. While exciting, sex no longer feels special, and I no longer feel like I am being fed emotionally by having it.

 

Have any BSs out there felt this? Did the feeling go away?

 

Sex with my FWW is ok, and sometimes pretty good. But 7 years later it is still tainted somewhat. It doesn't make much sense, as neither of us is the only person the other has been with, but what can I say?

 

Its good...it is what it is....but yeah, it's not some special bonding thing anymore. It's lovemaking for sure, not just sex...but just like the other important aspects of our relationship, it will never be like it was. ( or at least like I thought it was )

[Whoknew30]

No it never felt hollow (for me at least!)

 

After his affair, we went through hysterical bonding bit.... was having a TON of sex, and I enjoyed it. Can't say it felt hollow - but I also have never put a heavy emotional attachment to sex.

 

After my affair... more hysterical bonding. I don't know if it feels "hollow" for him.

 

I can say, after his A - when we had sex, I never thought about "her" or them together or any of that. And I am pretty damn confident in my "skills" I am sure I am the better lay

 

And now (we are just a month out from my D day) - I do know "it" (my cheating) comes into his mind when we have sex, he'll make comments - "this is what you wanted?" "are you mine?"

 

And little back story, he had a short term (one week) physical affair while on a business trip, that turned into an emotional affair that lasted, oh a few months, even after I found out - when I finally put my foot down. Me or her, it ended. 5 years later, I cheated, more than once, purely physical, no emotional attachment (and he knows me well enough to know what I am about / capable of)

 

We never insulted each other, or tore each other down. I was nothing but remorseful for the pain I caused him, and explained... that it wasn't because I didn't love him, I was being selfish. And also explained.... that I learned I like some stuff I didn't know I liked - like a being submissive to a dom.

 

He cheated for "selfish" reasons as well, chasing a high / emotional support etc. Neither of us ever blamed the other for the cheating. Or made any claims that the affair partner was better in any way.

 

Gosh I couldn't imagine saying things like like Shattered lady's H has said. CRUELTY! If my "AP" did anything "better" than my BF, I would never ever tell him that (ugh, him finding magnum condoms was bad enough!)

 

 

I can so relate! I'm not that much emotionally attached to sex either...& our sex life also got even better after.

[Ladyjane14]

Shattered lady, that must have been soul destroying. My wife, at the time of my affair was no longer interested in sex, but I like to believe I would not have done that to my wife, if we were having sex during the affair.

 

Maybe this will help:

 

What I did do to my wife instead was to pick fights with her. I picked fights with her over all the habits I once found adorable about her.

 

It took a bit of counseling for me to realize that I was doing this to demonize my wife.

 

The counselor claims that I felt so much guilt that I had to make myself believe that I did not love my wife and so I picked on the things I did once love about her.

 

My counselor told me that this is common in affairs.

 

She claims it is a good indication albeit very painful to the BS.

 

She claims it shows that the person is conflicted and feeling guilt.

 

The counselor said the cheaters she really worries about are the ones that smile to the spouse's face and carry on as if nothing has changed. The ones that can have sex without acting differently, or the ones that buy the wife gifts to throw her off the track or to make themselves feel okay.

 

The says being able to smile and carry on as usual indicates a lack of guilt and conflict.

 

Don't know if the helps, but I hope it does, some at least.

 

Thank you for that post, Liam. It was very enlightening and helpful.

[Liam1]

Thank you so much Liam! I call my H Mr Alien. I truly thought that I was loosing my mind at times. I knew something was VERY wrong. I wouldn't treat someone that I hate the way he treated me. I guess that's good?!?!

 

Yes. An alien.

 

My wife called me a "pod person".

[Liam1]

 

If my "AP" did anything "better" than my BF,

 

IMO, a boyfriend, girlfriend situation is quite a bit different from cheating in a marriage.

 

I never expected any of my girlfriends to remain faithful nor they me. Not until there was a wedding ring.

[RecentChange]

^^^ we are non traditionalist in that we haven't been married in a ceremony, but have been together for over 14 years, living together for all of those years, joint funds, all of that. A lot longer than many marriages I know

 

But further on the non traditional front, he has even offered allowing me to "play" outside of our relationship once I had my D day.

[Liam1]

^^^ we are non traditionalist in that we haven't been married in a ceremony, but have been together for over 14 years, living together for all of those years, joint funds, all of that. A lot longer than many marriages I know

 

But further on the non traditional front, he has even offered allowing me to "play" outside of our relationship once I had my D day.

 

Okay. Well this description is closest to Polyamory.

 

Polyamory is not cheating. It's an agreement that both can have sex outside the marriage.

 

If he is giving you permission to play, that likely indicates he expects reciprocity.

 

If you are okay with that, that's polyamory, not monogamy.

 

Likely you are non-traditional relationship as a way to keep your options open, similar to my earlier no intent to marry dating relationships.

 

How do you feel about him giving you permission to go outside the relationship for sex?

[RecentChange]

He actually doesn't not expect reciprocity - he has offered a one way deal. Sexually I am a bit more deviant than him I suppose, and he says he wants me to be fulfilled, and happy, hence the offer. As for polygamous - part of the deal would be keeping emotions / attachment to the "other man" out of it (see my comments on the FWB thread).

 

How do I feel about it? Hum, quite a temptation, but for now at least, it sounds too complicated, not easy to pull off without hurt feelings.

 

So for now, I have basically said thanks for the offer, but I rather focus on "us" and revist it - if I feel it's something I need.

[Liam1]

He actually doesn't not expect reciprocity - he has offered a one way deal. Sexually I am a bit more deviant than him I suppose, and he says he wants me to be fulfilled, and happy, hence the offer. As for polygamous - part of the deal would be keeping emotions / attachment to the "other man" out of it (see my comments on the FWB thread).

 

How do I feel about it? Hum, quite a temptation, but for now at least, it sounds too complicated, not easy to pull off without hurt feelings.

 

So for now, I have basically said thanks for the offer, but I rather focus on "us" and revist it - if I feel it's something I need.

 

Complicated is an understatement.

[heartwhole]

7 months past DDay.

 

Despite having regular, fantastic sex with my WH, I more often than not walk away from our encounters feeling like only my most physical and base needs were met, and nothing more. While exciting, sex no longer feels special, and I no longer feel like I am being fed emotionally by having it.

 

Have any BSs out there felt this? Did the feeling go away?

 

I wonder if you feel this way in your relationship as a whole . . . that it is no longer feeding you emotionally. Do you think that's accurate? I would wonder if you are erecting (no pun intended) a wall during sex to keep yourself from feeling vulnerable, or if you're simply emotionally guarded at all times with your husband, but you're noticing it most during sex? That's my armchair assessment for you.

 

I think in the first month or two, sex was more about crazy hormones and hysterical bonding and I could have related to your statement, but now (11 months out), no. I feel emotionally connected during sex, even more so than before the affair. I have been working really hard to remain vulnerable and open to my husband though I've certainly felt the impulse to shut him out. When he has not gotten it or taken ownership or been vulnerable himself, that's been hard. I just keep telling him, "I'm trying to be vulnerable. I need you to do X or else this isn't going to work out" until he gets it.