Lobouspo Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious 6 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious think of it like this. you start dating person A. this person A dated person B & C in the past & dumped them. so after some time, the person A dumps YOU. of course, you're shocked and surprised - so i ask you: why are you surprised at person A dumping you when they already did the dumping to other folks before? do you think that would be a logical question? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lobouspo Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) think of it like this. you start dating person A. this person A dated person B & C in the past & dumped them. so after some time, the person A dumps YOU. of course, you're shocked and surprised - so i ask you: why are you surprised at person A dumping you when they already did the dumping to other folks before? do you think that would be a logical question? Not a good analogy. Relationships don't work out for various reasons, things could go south because no one can tell the future. As a baseline these guys are dishonest by starting secretive affairs and lying to their BS. THERE IS A PATTERN OF DECEIT AND SELFISH BEHAVIOR TO A WOMAN THEY "LOVE". I guess I am just surprised how shocked OW's are when they find out they are being strung along and lied to all along. My whole thing is you want to have an affair, have at it, but I just don't understand the shock and disappointment when OW gets burned and devastated like BS. I mean why keep eating at the joint that got red tagged for serving food that made people sick from food poisoning? Good chance it will happen again. What is past is prologue Edited February 26, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote formatting ~6 8 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Relationships don't work out for various reasons, things could go south because no one can tell the future. truth. no one can tell the future, indeed -- so you can't tell if your MM will lie to you TOO, the same way he lies to his BS. As a baseline these guys are dishonest by starting secretive affairs and lying to their BS. THERE IS A PATTERN OF DECEIT AND SELFISH BEHAVIOR TO A WOMAN THEY "LOVE". that's true for serial cheaters only. what about those MMs who were faithful for let's say... 20+ years, they don't claim to love their wife - the passion is gone, they aren't in love anymore... and so on and THEEEN - they start an affair. where is the pattern of deceit and selfish behaviour there? if you start dating a person A who had 3 relationship and was the dumper in all three and the person A dumps YOU TOO -- isn't that ignoring the pattern of dumping behavior, too? what is the difference? I guess I am just surprised how shocked OM's are when they find out they are being strung along and lied to all along i honestly don't know why. just because a MW lies to her husband, that doesn't mean she will lie to her OM. those are different relationships with different dynamic. do you act the same in ALL of your relationships, do ALL of your relationships meant the same to you? in the end, it comes down to one thing -- HOPE. all those folks hope they're special, they hope they'll be the one who will mean something more to their MW, they hope they're unique and an exception... rather than your standard affair. you hope your story is different and you overlook a lot of red flags - just like people do in every other relationship. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet Storm Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've noticed that OW often see the lies as circumstantial, instead of character related. They dont view him as a liar, cheater and a conflict avoider, but as a good guy who only lies and cheats because he's with the wrong woman. 17 Link to post Share on other sites
gonnadropthemic Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've been an ow once and shortly just for 3 months. to me, we went into it with the understanding to be honest with each other since we were already doing an dishonest thing. So why hide or lie things from each other?! Especially when you think you "love" this ap. But he lied about a few things and then lied about coming clean to his wife. He had told her he confessed but he really never did. She never knew. Yes it's a dishonest thing to have an affair but once emotions get involved it's hard to not get upset or hurt when being betrayed by ap. You tend to get more wrapped up with feelings for the ap and when having this shared secret of the affair together it makes you feel really bonded and connected to this person. So ya when they lie, it hurts bad. And you are right- it shouldn't as they are or we both are technically hiding and lying to have an affair. I'm gonna say the ones who get upset are way more emotionally invested with their ap so it's understandable to feel betrayal and stuff. That's real feelings and emotions going on. And just bc it's a bad thing to have an affair doesn't mean it's bad to express feelings when being hurt during it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've noticed that OW often see the lies as circumstantial, instead of character related. They dont view him as a liar, cheater and a conflict avoider, but as a good guy who only lies and cheats because he's with the wrong woman. i agree. same with the OMs. everyone believes that THEIR situation is the exception. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Lovetoohard Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious Hindsight is 20/20. I'm not an affair expert by any means (nor do I want to be!) as this was my first and last affair, and I can share with you only what I know based on my experience. First, I hate to use the word "lies." Is more of a delusion that is fueled by some need in the AP's lives not being fulfilled and acting on escapist tendencies to fulfill that need. The AP not only is deluded in their feelings and manipulating reality and conveying it in a compartmentalized, skewed, and self serving fashion to the W and OW and everyone else, they are deluding themselves. If you keep telling yourself something that is a far cry from reality is true enough times, you will believe it to be true. Enter an emotionally vulnerable, people pleasing "savior" known as the OW/OM on the other end and it's a hot mess. As a former OW, I will not place the responsibility entirely on the MM/MW - the OW/OM becomes clouded in their judgment and equally delusional too when they are in the thick of it. That is, until one or both parties has a lucid moment often precipitated by a D-day, almost D-day (increasing suspicion by W/H), overwhelming guilt and desire to work on the M, or the OW/OM getting fed up and walking away. So to answer your question in simplest terms, no, it's not a surprise, but you only come to that conclusion when you start seeing things with the clarity of an objective person that hasn't been tainted by an affair. Edited February 26, 2016 by Lovetoohard 5 Link to post Share on other sites
SolG Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 One word... limerence. My reading here and elsewhere certainly points to many WSs and APs being limerent in the early stages of the A; they only see the positive in the other. Lying being a negative is outside the positive purview of the rose coloured glasses they don and is therefore ignored or minimised. When the limerence starts to fade an AP is then often utterly shocked that his/her constructed perception of the MM/MW is inaccurate. This is why they are surprised. Straight from Wiki: 'Limerence is sometimes also interpreted as infatuation, or what is colloquially known as a "crush". However, in common speech, infatuation includes aspects of immaturity and extrapolation from insufficient information, and is usually short-lived. Tennov notes how limerence "may dissolve soon after its initiation, as in an early teenage buzz-centered crush", but she is more concerned with the point when "limerent bonds are characterized by 'entropy' crystallization as described by Stendhal in his 1821 treatise On Love, where a new love infatuation perceptually begins to transform ... [and] attractive characteristics are exaggerated and unattractive characteristics are given little or no attention ... [creating] a 'limerent object'"... ...A person experiencing limerence has a general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background. In their thoughts, such a person tends to emphasize what is admirable in the limerent object and to avoid any negative or problematic attributes.' 3 Link to post Share on other sites
RRM321 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) One word... limerence. My reading here and elsewhere certainly points to many WSs and APs being limerent in the early stages of the A; they only see the positive in the other. Lying being a negative is outside the positive purview of the rose coloured glasses they don and is therefore ignored or minimised. ...A person experiencing limerence has a general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background. In their thoughts, such a person tends to emphasize what is admirable in the limerent object and to avoid any negative or problematic attributes.' I think limerence alone fails to explain how a person bounds both their own character and the intuitive certainty of UNAVAILABILITY to settle for some fraction of a relationship. It can't be that millions of people are all clinically low on self esteem, or so emotionally weak. If you presuppose a pursuer and a subordination of character as to be predatory then limerence would merely be a condition necessary to establish upon a compliant and easy manipulated subject. I use the term predatory because, by definition a married person cannot enter honestly into another relationship. This blatant contradiction is not simply overlooked by both partners; it is turned on it's head. To me that requires a certain degree of manipulation brought into play by whichever party has the most control. At least one party to the affair must at all times be a liar or the affair could never begin. Edited February 27, 2016 by RRM321 3 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious I don't find it curious at all that OW would expect MM not to lie to them. From what I've experienced a great percentage of people are dishonest in one realm of their lives or another, such as cheating on taxes, for instance, or things of larger or smaller significance. These people may not have cheated on their spouses. However, though their SOs know they are dishonest in other ways, most are surprised and not happy when they are lied to by said person. I've experienced being lied to by people who've never cheated on a partner. Sadly, a great many people lie. Yet their romantic partners expect them to be truthful in the relationship the two share. I believe the reason is that the more intimate we, as humans, are with another, the more honesty we expect with and from them, whether or not they're lying to another person or entity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious My fMM (now H) was completely honest with me - as far as he was able. He did initially tell me he wouldn't leave the BW, toward whom he felt some vestigial commitment, and I - at first - took that at face value. I understood the circumstances: he'd recently taken her back, after she begged and made all sorts of promises (which of course she didn't keep) because the kids had not coped at all well with the split, and so leaving her was not on the agenda at that point. He simply could not subject his kids to that again, because they wouldn't handle the trauma. As it turned out, they could (no trauma) and did, and he did, when he did leave a few years later. Handling it well made all the difference (and their being older). Was I surprised? I guess initially yes, when I found out what she was like - I couldn't understand anyone remaining with someone like that (faithfully and investedly) for so long. If have been gone after minutes, rather than decades. Did I consider it dishonest / lying? No, more like some kind of survival delusion, a sort of "Stockholm syndrome" where he told himself whatever he needed to hear to be able to get through. Once he was out of that situation and could see it for what it was, he understood just how deluded he'd been. Hooray for good counsellors! Aside from that, there was no dishonesty, no lying. Nor, beyond "lying by omission" (delaying telling the BW about the A until we knew it was serious) was there dishonesty or lying to the BW. So no big shocks or surprises. He's an open book. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I asked a coworker/friend that was an OW this very question ...... and she said she believed because she loved him and didn't think he would be lying to her as he did to his wife. She thought if he was risking his marriage/family with the affair .... that she must be worth it and he must have been true and honest with her or else why bother. After coming out of the sorry mess ....she now says she was naive and deluded at the time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Redhead14 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious I wouldn't be surprised. I'd expect it because if I'm the other woman, my values are questionable as well . . . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
newmoon Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 just keep in mind that many women don't even realize they are the OW until they are already far along with a MM and have already developed feelings for him which may allow them to overlook bad behaviors, lies, etc. men often start affairs without the OW knowing she's an affair at all... Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 It isn't just MM or MW who are telling lies. It's naive to believe MM or MW are the only dishonest people around. Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I've noticed that OW often see the lies as circumstantial, instead of character related. They dont view him as a liar, cheater and a conflict avoider, but as a good guy who only lies and cheats because he's with the wrong woman. There are plenty of "good guys" who aren't cheating on their wives and "good girls" who aren't cheating on their husbands who are telling lies in other realms of their lives. Dishonesty isn't relegated only to cheating partners. Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) you find out married affair partner lied to you. Whether it be about feelings, circumstances, future, leaving BS etc. As a baseline these guys are not being truthful to their wives about affair. What makes you think they will be so honest with you? Serious question, I am just curious Lobouspo, the answer to your query is quite simple: It is a natural and totally understandable human propensity to expect those we are most intimate with to be honest with us, even when we know they are dishonest with others. Edited February 28, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease Link to post Share on other sites
Lady2163 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I'm also one of those xow's who wasn't lied to. There were no delusions that he was leaving his wife. He didn't complain about her, he wasn't miserable in his marriage, just a little bit in the bedroom. He also needed a friend. Not because he was a wreck, he just needed someone who didn't want,, need or demand something from him. He's a bit of a public figure in his community and his occupation, so people always "want" something. There's a lot of fakery and schmoozing. Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Quiet storm #5 I've noticed that OW often see the lies as circumstantial, instead of character related. They dont view him as a liar, cheater and a conflict avoider, but as a good guy who only lies and cheats because he's with the wrong woman. ^^^^ this is spot-on ! She also thinks that "his wife doesn't understand him", or love him enough because if she did he wouldn't be the way he was...... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts