What Other Women Have to Say to Betrayed Wives

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by jj003

you got it right !! when you said "what I would call a healthy love"

Entirely your view !!!!!

others may feel different than you ! and it doesn't make them wrong and you right !

 

makes about as much sense as giving little Tommy and "A" in math and passing him on to the next grade even though he got every answer wrong-- well, at least he tried. Sends a strong message to little Jimmy sitting next to him and who worked his tail off to earn an "A" and move up a grade.

 

There is something wrong with a person who pursues relationships that they know are illicit and going to cause pain to someone. That doesn't mean that person doesn't hurt too and I never said that.

 

Making a mistake and realizing it and understanding the ramifications of said mistake and then doing what is needed and right to correct the mistake is one thing; a character flaw is something else. Someone who doesn't care about anyone but themselves and has no compassion for those they destroy along the way, no matter how much that person may claim to hurt themselves, is something else entirely.

[jj003]

Originally posted by JPMorgan

makes about as much sense as giving little Tommy and "A" in math and passing him on to the next grade even though he got every answer wrong-- well, at least he tried. Sends a strong message to little Jimmy sitting next to him and who worked his tail off to earn an "A" and move up a grade.

 

There is something wrong with a person who pursues relationships that they know are illicit and going to cause pain to someone. That doesn't mean that person doesn't hurt too and I never said that.

 

Making a mistake and realizing it and understanding the ramifications of said mistake and then doing what is needed and right to correct the mistake is one thing; a character flaw is something else. Someone who doesn't care about anyone but themselves and has no compassion for those they destroy along the way, no matter how much that person may claim to hurt themselves, is something else entirely.

I have no time to argue with you, but I think others will.....

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

waste of my time !!!! others can read themselves ! let them !!!

 

 

Agree.

[whichwayisup]

Making a mistake and realizing it and understanding the ramifications of said mistake and then doing what is needed and right to correct the mistake is one thing; a character flaw is something else. Someone who doesn't care about anyone but themselves and has no compassion for those they destroy along the way, no matter how much that person may claim to hurt themselves, is something else entirely.

 

Yes, but when it keeps on happening again and again, it makes one stop and wonder...IS the person learning from their mistakes or are they just saying f*ck it, this makes me feel good and screw who gets hurt!

 

**NOT directed at anybody, just making a comment...**

[newbby]

i think it might be better if i spoke for myself here,

yes i did understand what bronzepen was talking about when i said:

sorry to interrupt this very entertaining arguement but bronzepen i think you will see that THIS is where you made it YOUR view, right at the beggining. You then proceeded with "society thinks..."

therefore you gave both myself and jj the very strong impression that this was indeed your opinion

 

.

 

i was saying that this was where i got confused and i think where jj got confused too,

i was simply saying it came across as he was stating his opinion in the beginning and not talking about societies view, but i dont THINK that he intended to. i was trying to clear up both of your arguement by pointing out that this was perhaps where the misunderstanding stemmed from.

i hope this makes it clear now

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by newbby

i think it might be better if i spoke for myself here,

yes i did understand what bronzepen was talking about when i said:

 

 

i was saying that this was where i got confused and i think where jj got confused too,

i was simply saying it came across as he was stating his opinion in the beginning and not talking about societies view, but i dont THINK that he intended to. i was trying to clear up both of your arguement by pointing out that this was perhaps where the misunderstanding stemmed from.

i hope this makes it clear now

 

Thank you newbby and it does make it clear.

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by Bronzepen I believe that as long as the institution of marriage is in place, infidelity will always be a taboo.

 

I thought this was interesting. Taboo. Rather than breach of contract? Marriage is a contract and part of that contract is a vow of fidelity to each other. Unless some couples writes in their vows that it's okay to have sex with others, it is a breach of contract. Marriage is a legal, and for some a faith-based also, contract. It has nothing to do with how society views a couple.

 

'HOWEVER, I will not accept that I am a bad person or that I have character flaws because I entered this relationship. I have plenty of flaws, but this isn't one of them...

 

But can you accept that according to the boundaries/values of others you are a bad person and will always been thought of that way? Just because you don't consider yourself a bad person doesn't mean others must be wrong for seeing you differently.

 

I am not responsible for any pain that his wife felt when he left her for me because I am not responsible for his actions. Period."

 

Being responsible for another person's actions, and holding some responsibility in the situation are two different things. The betrayed spouse is going to be in pain from the affair, no matter who the cheating spouse has an affair with. However, it can't be justified by saying "if it wasn't me, it would be someone else" If it is 'you' (and I mean 'You' in a general sense, not you in particular) then 'you' hold some accountability in the situation, and that includes accountability and responsibility for contributing to the pain of someone else.

 

Now that she is secure about herself, society has no hold on her. NOW it doesn't matter what society thinks. Can society do anything to her? NO, becasue the only "punishment" for infedility is frowning and stigmatizing but since she doesn't care about what society thinks the punishment is nulled.

 

The punishment for indifelity is the pain it causes to those involved first and if it is a marriage then the OW/OM can be called into court during the divorce if they are named in the suit and there may well be some financial penalties that could be construed as 'punishment.' I'm not sure where 'punishment' came into play, but the word itself implies responsibility and/or obligation. Contributing to the breaking of a law or an acknowledged rule/boundry would require punishment of some kind. If no law is broken then why would there need to be punishment? I suppose that someone could say they new he was married but didn't understand that married meant he shouldn't have relationships with others.

 

But hey, things have gotten better. No one gets stoned these days. I think any cheater will take negative attitudes over stoning any day" - me

So if you felt that you personally could be harmed in some way that you do not control then you wouldn't be a cheater? If there were punishments for being a cheater - such as jail time, physical punishments, financial punishments, etc. that would change your decision?

 

Infidelity will always be unacceptable to the majority of people. You may be fine with being shunned, but I wonder how it would affect your descisions and your ability to respect other people's boundaries if cheaters lost their jobs, could not find a job, were denied some of the respect that those who do not cheat have?

 

People will judge you and some of those people may be in a position to affect parts of your life. I would not want a cheater to work for me -- if they cheat on their spouse or cheat with someone else's spouse, what might they do to me and my company? I would consider then untrustworthy and I would not promote them into positions of any authority. It would certainly take a LOT more from them to earn my trust than it would from someone else. There are consequences whether we 'accept' them or not.

 

progress is slow but it is progress.

What progress are you talking about? What would you like to see as the final outcome of this 'progress'?

[whichwayisup]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

I believe that as long as the institution of marriage is in place, infidelity will always be a taboo.

 

As it should be. And with any serious relationship.

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

Yes, but when it keeps on happening again and again, it makes one stop and wonder...IS the person learning from their mistakes or are they just saying f*ck it, this makes me feel good and screw who gets hurt!

 

**NOT directed at anybody, just making a comment...**

 

That would be a learned behavior (self-taught?) and repeatedly behaving this way would be a character flaw - if they did not view it as a mistake in judgement or behavior; or want and try to adjust their behavior and attitude for their own happiness.

 

I think the minority of people in affairs are this way. I don't have any evidence or scientific studies to back that up, but I would like to think that the majority of people are not so flawed.

[newbby]

I THINK that YES people who have affairs with married men are being selfish, YES they are, I also think that people are selfish every single day, in many many ways, i think that wanting a married man to leave his wife for you is most definetly selfish, of course it is, wanting your husband to stay with you is selfish,

at times in our lives when we are suffering we become more selfish, it is sad but true.

i was desperately unhappy when my mm came along and YES pursued me, i was selfish and i wanted to be saved and he looked like some sort of angel, hard to believe now.

but what is anyones point? thats what i dont understand, yes ow are being selfish but what is the point of saying this over and over, yes they were desperate and believed someones lies or believed in somebody elses confusion, its true but they did not set out to wreck anybodys lives, they were just trying to save their own, like all of us, like everyone, just trying to be happy.

the only way to stop selfishness in the world is if everybody found themselves, their own happiness independent of anybody else, their own peace.

that is what i am doing now, and its through sinking so low that i could become so needy and cling to the most ridiculously flimsy oar that made me realise that that is what i needed to do.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by JPMorgan

I thought this was interesting. Taboo. Rather than breach of contract? Marriage is a contract and part of that contract is a vow of fidelity to each other. Unless some couples writes in their vows that it's okay to have sex with others, it is a breach of contract. Marriage is a legal, and for some a faith-based also, contract. It has nothing to do with how society views a couple.

 

OK, here is a quote from myself from the other thread. This is getting redundent. Read Post #7

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=501444#post501444

 

 

But can you accept that according to the boundaries/values of others you are a bad person and will always been thought of that way? Just because you don't consider yourself a bad person doesn't mean others must be wrong for seeing you differently.

 

It's irrelevant.

 

It's not a question of whether society (another person) see's your actions as right or wrong. But how an individual perceives their actions. The individual can care less if society is right or wrong.

 

 

 

The punishment for indifelity is the pain it causes to those involved first and if it is a marriage then the OW/OM can be called into court during the divorce if they are named in the suit and there may well be some financial penalties that could be construed as 'punishment.' I'm not sure where 'punishment' came into play, but the word itself implies responsibility and/or obligation. Contributing to the breaking of a law or an acknowledged rule/boundry would require punishment of some kind. If no law is broken then why would there need to be punishment? I suppose that someone could say they new he was married but didn't understand that married meant he shouldn't have relationships with others.

 

Read my thread above.

 

 

So if you felt that you personally could be harmed in some way that you do not control then you wouldn't be a cheater? If there were punishments for being a cheater - such as jail time, physical punishments, financial punishments, etc. that would change your decision?

 

That's exactly what I am talking about. It's human nature to cheat. Do we all do it? No. Same way as we all do not kill but it is our nature.

 

We are not perfect and society knows this. That is why laws, regulations, rules, taboo's are created by society to keep human nature in check.

 

Infidelity will always be unacceptable to the majority of people. You may be fine with being shunned, but I wonder how it would affect your descisions and your ability to respect other people's boundaries if cheaters lost their jobs, could not find a job, were denied some of the respect that those who do not cheat have?

 

People will judge you and some of those people may be in a position to affect parts of your life. I would not want a cheater to work for me -- if they cheat on their spouse or cheat with someone else's spouse, what might they do to me and my company? I would consider then untrustworthy and I would not promote them into positions of any authority. It would certainly take a LOT more from them to earn my trust than it would from someone else. There are consequences whether we 'accept' them or not.

 

There is always consequences because that is how society works. Especially with taboos. Unfortunately, infidelity is rampant and many people do it, that is why it was never made illegal. Sure there are some blue laws but to prove infidelity in the courts is very difficult, meaning video, cameras, etc..

 

 

 

What progress are you talking about? What would you like to see as the final outcome of this 'progress'?

 

Draconian methods have proven to solve nothing. Capital punishment (stoning) against cheaters is excessive, don't you think? I call that progress.

 

As I said, as long as the institution of marriage is around, infidelity will always be a taboo. We're human and can't help it but society will try to curb it by frowning and stigmatizing it.

 

What I would like to see as the final outcome of this progress-

 

If I put on my rose colored glasses, A world where there is no self interest or possesiveness. Where everyone loves each other.

 

Oh well, we can dream....

[newbby]

both bronzepen and jpmorgan, you both sound a little crazy, talking about infidielity as a crime is just extreme.

bronzepen this particular discussion is not about societies view of anything, that discussion is already going on elsewhere.

bronzepen, you say you want a world free of possessiveness and self interest, and what do you feel would be the best way to contribute to this ideal?

[izzybelle]

jp,

 

But can you accept that according to the boundaries/values of others you are a bad person and will always been thought of that way? Just because you don't consider yourself a bad person doesn't mean others must be wrong for seeing you differently.

 

although it feels a bit like we're going around and around and i was about ready to just call it a day i can't let this one go, i tried but i can't.

 

bad behavior DOES NOT i repeat DOES NOT necessarily make someone a bad person. and if you really do feel that way, i'm really sorry. people make mistakes, we all do. and a bunch of people know my situation with my exMM and i can tell you with all sincerity and all honesty that they don't view me as a bad person. they wouldn't have done what i did, but but they are accepting of the fact that i made a mistake and learned from it. people do stupid things, kids steal money out of mom's purse or take the lollipop away from their friend ... bad behavior. sometimes people will experiment with drugs or drink when they're underage. each day most of us exibit some sort of bad behavior, god i saw a dude today in his car with his finger shoved half way up his nose ... that's bad behavior and well, maybe he's a bad person what do you think? it's a learned behavior, it's selfish and for his own pleasure and as for hurting someone else, it almost made me hurl my lunch. sounds like a serious character flaw to me! look i know that's a ridiculous example, but that about sums up the way i feel about parts of this whole discussion. we could argue about this until the cows come home, which will be soon since i have things to do tonight, but bad behavior does not mean a bad person nor does it mean that someone has some serious flaw. and i know that there is no way to get this point across to you. i have no need to lable people, it's not my style, nor do i have any interest in going through life that way. it spends too much of my energy to live life that way.

 

i may not approve of everything everyone does, but i do not believe that makes them bad people. they may have made a bad decision and hurt someone else in the process. but in the small little world that i live in people are basically good, not evil. they do stupid things sometimes and hopefully they learn from their mistakes. no doubt there are OWs and OMs out there who meet the description that you seem so stuck on. those who routinely and repeatedly break up marriages and perhaps i'll agree with you that those people have some issues but like i said before, you're not going to find too many of them posting on here. and do you know why? because they don't care! they wouldn't come here for support because they don't think they need it.

 

jp, you have apparently been hurt really badly and obviously have a great deal of strong opinions of others, including those of us who had nothing to do with your situation. but i think it's sad to go through life judging people like that and saying that ALL people who exhibit behaviors you don't approve of are bad. life is too short to live that way for me.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by newbby

both bronzepen and jpmorgan, you both sound a little crazy, talking about infidielity as a crime is just extreme.

bronzepen this particular discussion is not about societies view of anything, that discussion is already going on elsewhere.

 

 

Never said it was a crime. Actually I said it can never be a crime (illegal) because too many people are doing it. It is considered taboo but not a crime.

 

The question was asked and I directed them to that thread.

 

bronzepen, you say you want a world free of possessiveness and self interest, and what do you feel would be the best way to contribute to this ideal?

 

Being that it is human nature only human evolution is the only way I see it possibly happening but it's a long shot and a long long time before this happens, if it happens.

[newbby]

do you not think that evolution could be a choice?

maybe there are two sides to human nature, the obvious and the non obvious, the collective conciousness, the love that is already there

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by newbby

do you not think that evolution could be a choice?

maybe there are two sides to human nature, the obvious and the non obvious, the collective conciousness, the love that is already there

 

hmm....good question.

 

Maybe...

 

From a physical aspect most likely no. We can't choose to have wings although it's not impossible to evolve with wings. But we don't pick and chose.

 

 

From a conscience level. Maybe. I personnaly lean towards no.

 

Humans have evolved (no disrespect to creationist) physically and mentally but the basic nature of humans pretty much has remained intact. We are social beings, self-centered, possesive, competitive, compassionate, loving etc.... We thrive on order in one form or another.

 

To be honest with you, I think that is what defines a human being.

 

When human beings evolve we will become something else and cease being human beings. Is it our choice? Maybe on a subconscious level.

 

Who knows?

 

Good question. I will ponder that some more.

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by JPMorgan

I admit, I have not read the thread this is split from. I don't know if someone said that because they were married the pain was worse, or if it was a comment by someone else; but being a married couple carries a little more weight vs. dating or engaged in most cases. For many people it's easier to justify to themselves the breaking of a promise made to one person, alone with nothing to substantiate that promise than it is to break a vow taken in front of God (if religious) and witnesses. For those who have been married you may understand what I mean. Its like putting a letter in an envelope and tucking the top flap under vs. wetting the glue and sealing the envelope. Its subtle, but its often there. The vows of marriage are sacred and its serious business making those vows.

 

 

 

I will never fully understand why so many people don't just discuss it with the person they vowed to be with. If a person can't talk to their spouse and say "you aren't doing it for me anymore" and then try to fix it or end it, then why did they marry or otherwise commit to each other in the first place. IMO it is never the betrayed spouse's fault.

 

JPMorgan, I'm the one that said that the pain of an A is worse for the W than that of the pain of the OW. I have been the OW to a man I loved for many years but he was in a serious relationship and we did have an A. I have also been the W of a man who had an A (during our separation, he filed for a D) and the pain from that was a lot worse. We were married for 11 years and together almost 13 when he had the A. We also have two children together. Our first born was 4 weeks early and had to be in the neonatal hospital for two weeks. I didn't even get to hold him right after he was born. He was taken to the neonatal hospital in the ambulance a few hours after he was born. That was one of the hardest things my H and I had to deal w/ in our M, something that the OW and him would never have to go through. It brought my H and I closer 2gether going through all of that. We shared so much more as a married couple than him and the OW. H admitted that him and the OW "meshed well" but it was only b/c they had sports in common. He admitted that even if our M didn't survive he wouldn't of stayed w/ her.

 

I am not saying the OW doesn't feel pain when the MM breaks it off w/ her, but for those of the OW who posted that their pain is just as bad as the W has no clue. Until you are the W of a man for several years, have children, share the same hopes and dreams, being the best of friends, you will never know that pain of their A.

 

To this day I don't know why my H didn't discuss working on the M b4 he filed for a D and had an A. We discussed M counseling but he said he didn't think it would work. He wasn't willing to try. He said he was having second doubts about the A but all we did was fight and neither one of us was happy so he said he wanted to set me free to find someone else that could make me happy. I gave up fighting for him, I wasn't going to try to pressure him into staying in the M if he didn't want to. So, I started my life over and he finally woke up and realized that he did want the M too work. Like I have said in the past, too bad it was several thousand dollars in lawyer fees and an A to make him realize that.

 

I agree that it's never the BS fault, well not unless they put a gun to their spouses head and told them to have an A or they would shoot them, lol. My M wasn't very good after the kids were born (my H wanted to have the single life but wanted the M and father life too so he spent a lot of his time drinking w/ his friends and it caused problems), but I would of never had an A b/c of it. If I did have an A b/c of my H's drinking problems and never being home, then it would be my fault b/c I could of told him, ya either start being a H and a father or I am filing for a D.

[newbby]

I am not saying the OW doesn't feel pain when the MM breaks it off w/ her, but for those of the OW who posted that their pain is just as bad as the W has no clue. Until you are the W of a man for several years, have children, share the same hopes and dreams, being the best of friends, you will never know that pain of their A.

 

this topic was not supposed to be about who feels the most pain but about the ow's pain being valid, which most think it is not because they think the ow set out to destroy a marriage and bought it on herself, or they think that the ow is stupid and selfish and has severe character flaws and therefore has no right to feel pain.

 

besides which you are one example and it doesnt prove anything, just because you suffered more through your own husbands affair than you did from your own experience as the ow, it doesnt mean that this is the case for all women.

i for one dont believe i suffered as much pain for this relationship with my exmm than most wives would, however i believe the pain that i was in beforehand and alongside well exceeded most bs's pain. the a with mm if isolated from the other pain, probably would not have been as bad, but you cannot isolate one pain from another.

there are some women who post here though who suffer extremely through their relationships with mm.

the weighing up of the pain isnt the issue though.

the point is that our pain is valid, we made a mistake and it caused us pain.

one could reasonably argue that the knowledge of letting oneself down is immensely painful in itself, the bs does not have to deal with that, guilt is a huge weight on the psyche, the bs does not have to deal with that.

and i know that you will argue back, but you did it to yourselves, you let yourselves down and you were selfish thats why you feel guilty, well that may be partially true, but i dont believe that any woman here saw this as an inevitable outcome of their situation. and i definetly dont believe that any other woman here is any more selfish as a person than the wives here. as i said before, people are selfish all people want happiness, the wife wanting her husband to stay with her is selfish, the husband is selfish, the ow is selfish, everybody is selfish.

there is also nothing wrong with being selfish, its the way one goes about attaining happiness that is in question, but if you were in the desert and dying of thirst and somebody came along and offered you a bottle of water and said that it didnt really belong to anyone as the original owner had decided to get rid of it, and even if you questioned extensively whether the original owner wanted to part with a bottle in the middle of a desert, the person instisted, and you may not be completely sure but i daresay you might drink it anyway.

it does not feel like stealing, i dont believe that any ow in here is a thief, i believe they saw a chance of happiness, being offered them and they took that chance.

they did not set out to impose selfishness on another persons life. it is not the same as going and taking something without consent. the husband himself is giving the consent. the husband himself is pursuing the ow and promising her a life of happiness. if you look at a marriage you look at a couple. if you look at a marriage and there is no visible couple, it does not look like a marriage.

i'm sorry bs, but your marriage does not look like a marriage when your husband is chasing somebody else.

[izzybelle]

newbby,

 

they did not set out to impose selfishness on another persons life. it is not the same as going and taking something without consent. the husband himself is giving the consent. the husband himself is pursuing the ow and promising her a life of happiness. if you look at a marriage you look at a couple. if you look at a marriage and there is no visible couple, it does not look like a marriage.

 

this is an incredibly interesting point, and i for one, completely agree. whether it was all lies or not, my MM was very clear with me that his marriage was over, that she had said that she was going to be divorcing him. and while i do recognize that that may have been a lie, at the time, i had no reason to believe otherwise. and perhaps i was just justifying the relationship to myself, but when you're told that the marriage is over, by the Ws choice, you really do believe that there is no marriage there. and it does come back to the same thing over and over again, the WS is the one who breaks the vow, he, as you said, gives his consent. the OW may have been foolish to believe the lies, assuming that they were lies, but the MM is the one who consents to the relationship.

 

in some cases i know that some MMs are very clear with their OWs that they never intend to leave their Ws for the OW that they are just filling in the void that is missing in their marriage. but when they promise the OW a future with them, right or wrong, you want to believe that it's real. i know that still, the A is wrong, but i don't think these situations are as black and white as some may want to believe. and i think at the time the MM may actually believe it as well.

 

even though it's been a little over a year and the pain has almost completely disappeared, there are still many questions floating around in my head, mostly whether or not they really were all lies. and while on some levels, it really doesn't matter, the whole issue of letting oneself down, being able to trust someone again brings those questions back from time to time. the guy i'm seeing now is waiting for the divorce papers to arrive in the mail. my understanding is that it's all signed and sealed and he's just waiting. his exW is involved with someone else and no longer wants him as her H, and he's moved on as well. but i can't help the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that she may change her mind much as supposedly happened with MM last year. and then what? so the pain may be gone, but the issues, and in this case, some fear, still remain. and i know they do for the BSs in these cases as well.

[aires_girl4380]

Originally posted by jj003

if we only blame another for all our problems and never look at our own roles in it all, always judge another" because this is what the society think, thus you are wrong" without having any understanding or compassion into another's situation? I think we ourselves set our own downfalls, because we will never improve...and we will keep making the same mistake..so it is ok, if the BS wants to blame the OW for all her problems, let her...because she will end up exactly where she is now a few years down the road. nothing will change for her....!

 

As for those who like to say that "I am just telling you what the society think of you..etc" why the society think so? because there are people like you out there who think like that to begin with !

 

So true! We all do our best to seek out someone or some thing to place the blame on. When we each make our own bed......

some how its someone else fault when it time to lay down in those dirty sheets!!!!

Reguardless of if you are the W/H, OW/OM, BS, whatever you are YOU allowed yourself to be where you are at so to hit bottom & start pointing fingers doesnt seem quite fair.

We all think our love is different, stronger, more passioniate, just all & all better....irrplacable.

As we can see just from the few here that isnt the case.

Reguardless of the length of time, the assets gained or lost, the children, the passion, the security......that isnt enough to hold a MM/MW that isnt truly commited to their vows-OBVIOUSLY.

[izzybelle]

We all think our love is different, stronger, more passioniate, just all & all better....

 

so true!

 

reguardless of the length of time, the assets gained or lost, the children, the passion, the security......that isnt enough to hold a MM/MW that isnt truly commited to their vows-OBVIOUSLY.

 

and i think this is a good point, as well. and the question is, after the WS has taken the step once, will going back to all of that be enough to keep them committed to their vows in the future?

[aires_girl4380]

and i think this is a good point, as well. and the question is, after the WS has taken the step once, will going back to all of that be enough to keep them committed to their vows in the future?

 

I want to think NO.....from the experiences I have seen at least w/the same partner. However,

I do not believe once a cheater always a cheater

A person strays for 1,000 different reasons ultimately because they are not happy/full-filled & they NEED to be. We all need to to feel full-filled, loved, happy- so to say that b/c a relationship was started with an affair or one or the other has been unfaithful in past relationships therefore will be again in my opinion isnt true! Everyone is different....responding differently to every person they come in contact with.

[newbby]

and i think this is a good point, as well. and the question is, after the WS has taken the step once, will going back to all of that be enough to keep them committed to their vows in the future?

 

yes interesting because in my experience mm dont seem to regret their affairs unless they get caught out. when given the chance to go home and forget the affair and make it all up in their marriages they dont take it, i would think if one made a mistake in a relationship they would really want to put things right and really kick themselves for it, whether they get caught or not.

perhaps when they do get caught it ends the stalemate situation with their wives, whereas before they were stuck into a certain dynamic, a pattern of relating to one another, that may have been unsatisfying for both but that neither realised until the mm fell for someone else, and when he gets caught the whole dynamics change, everything gets shaken up. perhaps they have to dig down through layers of dirt to the core of the relationship and if that core isnt dead then this is where they can start again.

if the core is dead then i guess thats where it doesnt work or if one party refuses to work hard, in which case the marriage wouldnt have survived anywaybecause the desire isnt strong enough.

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by StillHurtin

JPMorgan, I'm the one that said that the pain of an A is worse for the W than that of the pain of the OW. I have been the OW to a man I loved for many years but he was in a serious relationship and we did have an A. I have also been the W of a man who had an A (during our separation, he filed for a D) and the pain from that was a lot worse. We were married for 11 years and together almost 13 when he had the A. We also have two children together. Our first born was 4 weeks early and had to be in the neonatal hospital for two weeks. I didn't even get to hold him right after he was born. He was taken to the neonatal hospital in the ambulance a few hours after he was born. That was one of the hardest things my H and I had to deal w/ in our M, something that the OW and him would never have to go through. It brought my H and I closer 2gether going through all of that. We shared so much more as a married couple than him and the OW. H admitted that him and the OW "meshed well" but it was only b/c they had sports in common. He admitted that even if our M didn't survive he wouldn't of stayed w/ her.

 

I am not saying the OW doesn't feel pain when the MM breaks it off w/ her, but for those of the OW who posted that their pain is just as bad as the W has no clue. Until you are the W of a man for several years, have children, share the same hopes and dreams, being the best of friends, you will never know that pain of their A.

 

To this day I don't know why my H didn't discuss working on the M b4 he filed for a D and had an A. We discussed M counseling but he said he didn't think it would work. He wasn't willing to try. He said he was having second doubts about the A but all we did was fight and neither one of us was happy so he said he wanted to set me free to find someone else that could make me happy. I gave up fighting for him, I wasn't going to try to pressure him into staying in the M if he didn't want to. So, I started my life over and he finally woke up and realized that he did want the M too work. Like I have said in the past, too bad it was several thousand dollars in lawyer fees and an A to make him realize that.

 

I agree that it's never the BS fault, well not unless they put a gun to their spouses head and told them to have an A or they would shoot them, lol. My M wasn't very good after the kids were born (my H wanted to have the single life but wanted the M and father life too so he spent a lot of his time drinking w/ his friends and it caused problems), but I would of never had an A b/c of it. If I did have an A b/c of my H's drinking problems and never being home, then it would be my fault b/c I could of told him, ya either start being a H and a father or I am filing for a D.

 

I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that and I hope your babykins is doing great now!

 

You sound like you went thorough hell and have worked very, very hard to come out the other side. Sometimes the pain we go through -- whether by our choices or forced upon us by others -- makes us better people overall and helps our personal strength and so that we don't make the same bad choices and/or know we can handle the things others throw at us.

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by jj003

I have no time to argue with you, but I think others will.....

 

I'm not sure why you think I am arguing, or why you seem to feel I need to be argued with. ??