What Other Women Have to Say to Betrayed Wives

[JPMorgan]

quote:

But can you accept that according to the boundaries/values of others you are a bad person and will always been thought of that way? Just because you don't consider yourself a bad person doesn't mean others must be wrong for seeing you differently.

 

 

It's irrelevant.

 

It's not a question of whether society (another person) see's your actions as right or wrong. But how an individual perceives their actions. The individual can care less if society is right or wrong.

 

[color=blue]It may seem irrelevant and perhaps over time it can be proven irrelevant; However, there are consequences for our actions. Not caring about said consequences does not mean they will not occur. [/color]

 

quote:

So if you felt that you personally could be harmed in some way that you do not control then you wouldn't be a cheater? If there were punishments for being a cheater - such as jail time, physical punishments, financial punishments, etc. that would change your decision?

 

 

That's exactly what I am talking about. It's human nature to cheat. Do we all do it? No. Same way as we all do not kill but it is our nature.

 

We are not perfect and society knows this. That is why laws, regulations, rules, taboo's are created by society to keep human nature in check.

[color=blue] Cheating is human nature? I think cheating is a learned behavior. If we were animals with no concept of vows or promises; no ceremonial joining of husband and wife then perhaps it could be considered human nature. But we are not animals. We make decisions based on intellect not urges. Breaking a vow is a conscious choice. Being aroused by someone of the opposite sex (or in some cases the same sex) is a physiological reaction. Perhaps it is simply a semantic method of dealing with the victim of a cheater.[/color]

quote:

quote:

What progress are you talking about? What would you like to see as the final outcome of this 'progress'?

 

 

Draconian methods have proven to solve nothing. Capital punishment (stoning) against cheaters is excessive, don't you think? I call that progress.

 

As I said, as long as the institution of marriage is around, infidelity will always be a taboo. We're human and can't help it but society will try to curb it by frowning and stigmatizing it.

 

What I would like to see as the final outcome of this progress-

 

If I put on my rose colored glasses, A world where there is no self interest or possesiveness. Where everyone loves each other.

 

Oh well, we can dream....

 

[color=blue] This makes it sound as though your vision of a perfect future is no commitment, no marriage and no expectations from anyone. [/color]

[jj003]

Originally posted by aires_girl4380

However, I do not believe once a cheater always a cheater

A person strays for 1,000 different reasons ultimately because they are not happy/full-filled & they NEED to be. We all need to to feel full-filled, loved, happy- so to say that b/c a relationship was started with an affair or one or the other has been unfaithful in past relationships therefore will be again in my opinion isnt true! Everyone is different....responding differently to every person they come in contact with.

 

True, everyone is different, and we behave differently with different people...because of many reasons, but ultimately we need love and understanding, we need to be loved and cared for. And people will look for it within the marriage or outside of the marriage.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

 

It's irrelevant.

 

It's not a question of whether society (another person) see's your actions as right or wrong. But how an individual perceives their actions. The individual can care less if society is right or wrong.

 

 

 

finally we agree on something

[jj003]

Originally posted by JPMorgan

 

If I put on my rose colored glasses, A world where there is no self interest or possesiveness. Where everyone loves each other.

 

Oh well, we can dream....

 

[color=blue] This makes it sound as though your vision of a perfect future is no commitment, no marriage and no expectations from anyone. [/color]

 

he said no self-interest, no possesiveness, are you saying that marriage or commitment=self interest and possesiness??

I certainly hope not.

[StillHurtin]

Newbby, I am not going to argue or have a debat w/ you on who had the most pain, you as the OW, or me, as the BS. It's a pointless arguement and a pointless debate on who had more pain. You, as the OW, know the pain you went through, I don't. Me, as the BS, know the pain I went through, you don't. I have better things to do w/ my time than to argue w/ you about it so I'm going to leave it at that about the pain.

 

 

You mention that a M isn't a M if the MM is "chasing" after someone else. I agree, but my H wasn't chasing after the OW, she was chasing after him, for three years.

[newbby]

It's a pointless arguement and a pointless debate on who had more pain

but thats what i was saying

 

You mention that a M isn't a M if the MM is "chasing" after someone else. I agree, but my H wasn't chasing after the OW, she was chasing after him, for three years.

 

ok, but thats not the case with most ow here

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by newbby

but thats what i was saying

 

 

 

ok, but thats not the case with most ow here

 

I just wanted to clear it up that my H wasn't the one that was persuing the OW b/c you stated to me that if a MM is persuing the OW, it isn't a M.

I agree that most of the OW have been persued by the MM. I don't recall any of the OW here doing the persuing, however, it doesn't matter who was doing the persuing, WS, OW/OM, have a choice in the matter. When you have an A w/ a MP, you made a bad choice, I don't care how bad the M is.

[jj003]

Originally posted by StillHurtin

I just wanted to clear it up that my H wasn't the one that was persuing the OW b/c you stated to me that if a MM is persuing the OW, it isn't a M.

I agree that most of the OW have been persued by the MM. I don't recall any of the OW here doing the persuing, however, it doesn't matter who was doing the persuing, WS, OW/OM, have a choice in the matter. When you have an A w/ a MP, you made a bad choice, I don't care how bad the M is.

again, you used the words as if you were judging others " You made a bad choice"

You are not them, you do not know all things involved, you cannot understand their emotions, their situations..

nothing is absolute in this world !

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by jj003

again, you used the words as if you were judging others " You made a bad choice"

You are not them, you do not know all things involved, you cannot understand their emotions, their situations..

nothing is absolute in this world !

 

jj, no I can't understand their emotions, their situations, but are you telling me that if it's not a "bad choice" to get involved w/ a MM and have an A w/ them is a good choice? We can't help what we are feeling, we can't help if we are attracted to someone, M or not but to have an PA, we can choose to let someone have sex w/ us.

[newbby]

oh for crying out loud this whole thing is ridiculous, people make choices, they choose whats best at the time, sometimes its all they have. its so bloody easy to sit there and judge everything out of context. i dont care what you think, sometimes people are in positions where its all they frickin have. you just cant see it from where youre standing.

its not a good choice, do you think everyone in here is thinking, oh what a marvellous choice i made?

it might not even be about physical attraction, did that even occur to you?

its not always about finding someone attractive and opening your legs you know.

sometimes everything is just so s*** and hard and someone comes along and acts like a wonderful knight, come to take you away from this misery, and sometimes you just wanna believe in it.

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by newbby

oh for crying out loud this whole thing is ridiculous, people make choices, they choose whats best at the time, sometimes its all they have. its so bloody easy to sit there and judge everything out of context. i dont care what you think, sometimes people are in positions where its all they frickin have. you just cant see it from where youre standing.

its not a good choice, do you think everyone in here is thinking, oh what a marvellous choice i made?

it might not even be about physical attraction, did that even occur to you?

its not always about finding someone attractive and opening your legs you know.

sometimes everything is just so s*** and hard and someone comes along and acts like a wonderful knight, come to take you away from this misery, and sometimes you just wanna believe in it.

 

newbby, no I don't think that everyone is thinking they made a marvellous choice by having an A. I believe there are a lot of men (and some women, like the one my H had an A w/) out there who can easily convince women/men that they are wonderful men/women who can make the women/man think they are the best, a knight (as you put it) and the best thing that ever walked into her/his life. Some men/women are very smooth, and convincing talkers and women/men believe all their lines and fall head over heels in love w/ them.

[jj003]

Originally posted by StillHurtin

jj, no I can't understand their emotions, their situations, but are you telling me that if it's not a "bad choice" to get involved w/ a MM and have an A w/ them is a good choice? We can't help what we are feeling, we can't help if we are attracted to someone, M or not but to have an PA, we can choose to let someone have sex w/ us.

Before you say I am defensive, I just want to say that I am not because I did not sleep with mm, but I certainly would not say that others made a bad choice, I agree with newby, they made the best choice they can at the given time, at what they believe in at the time. Please notice I said " the best they can at a given time" If you love someone enough, you may just "want " to sleep with him because you want to be close to him, not becaues of the physical pleasure it gives you but because of the spiritual fulfillment.

You are right, you can't understand their emotions, their situations because you are not them, so why tell them they are right or wrong, good or bad?

I think the only bad choice are those we regret but still we learn a lesson and hopfully we would not make the same mistake again. It is for us to decide the choice is good or bad, not for others to decide for us, we are the one who have to live with our decisions, not someone else!

BTW, some affairs do end in marriages, in real life, I know of three such cases !!

[shellys-trying]

And you forget, the OW/OM WANTS a relationship. Why would they stop something when they think they can have it??

 

******Maybe because it's morally wrong and if you do it you're nothing but a destroyer of lives??? Ya think????**********

 

 

And "acceptance of the situation" isn't soley the OW/OM's bag of tricks. I'd also like to point out that the majority of cheaters regret being caught more than they regret the action itself.

 

 

**********well, I'd have to ask my H about this, but I'll let ya know what he says.*********************

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by jj003

Before you say I am defensive, I just want to say that I am not because I did not sleep with mm, but I certainly would not say that others made a bad choice, I agree with newby, they made the best choice they can at the given time, at what they believe in at the time. Please notice I said " the best they can at a given time" If you love someone enough, you may just "want " to sleep with him because you want to be close to him, not becaues of the physical pleasure it gives you but because of the spiritual fulfillment.

You are right, you can't understand their emotions, their situations because you are not them, so why tell them they are right or wrong, good or bad?

I think the only bad choice are those we regret but still we learn a lesson and hopfully we would not make the same mistake again. It is for us to decide the choice is good or bad, not for others to decide for us, we are the one who have to live with our decisions, not someone else!

BTW, some affairs do end in marriages, in real life, I know of three such cases !!

 

I understand why the OW would sleep w/ the mm b/c of the closeness she wants to be w/ him. I have been the OW so I know what those feelings are like. I am not proud of being the OW, even if he wasn't a mm, he was still in a serious relationship where he did marry her shortly after I went on w/ my life w/o him. I can't understand the emotions, their situations in regards to being w/ a mm, but I do know the emotions and the situation I was in. We started out as good friends that turned into lovers and it was one of the stupidest things I did, letting it turn into that. I didn't know he was in a committed relationship until I heard it from someone else that knew him and his GF. When I asked him about it he admitted he was seeing someone and she knew about me. Whether that was true or not, only him and his GF knew. If I would of known then what I know now how much it hurts to have someone you love cheat on you I would of never done that to her. I am not saying that you should feel that way b/c I wont/can't tell you that, it's just what I feel for myself.

 

 

HI Shelly!!!!! Nice to "see you"

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by shellys-trying

And you forget, the OW/OM WANTS a relationship. Why would they stop something when they think they can have it??

 

******Maybe because it's morally wrong and if you do it you're nothing but a destroyer of lives??? Ya think????*********

 

Ya know, I have to agree. The OW/OM is going to continue to try after the MP if they think they can get them. But why can't ppl wait until the MP gets divorced, that way their is no W or H to worry about? And I also agree w/ what Shellys-trying said too.

 

 

And "acceptance of the situation" isn't soley the OW/OM's bag of tricks. I'd also like to point out that the majority of cheaters regret being caught more than they regret the action itself.

 

 

**********well, I'd have to ask my H about this, but I'll let ya know what he says.*********************

 

I already know what my H has to say about this, he regrets the A more than he regrets getting caught. Well, I never caught him, I just heard rumors and the OW's H told me that they were messing around but I didn't know for sure what was going on, just heard the rumors and stupid me believed nothing was going on. I accussed H of the A and he denied it and lied through his teeth for a few months about the A. He continued to lie and tell me they were just friends even after we went to court the first time. Even when I moved away he still didn't admit to the A. It wasn't until I was gone for a month did he call and admitted to everything. He told me he couldn't lie to me anymore. He said he wanted the M to work and so he owed it to me to start telling the truth. He could of continue to deny the A and still want me back, but he wanted to be honest w/ me. H has said awful things about the OW, even things I wouldn't even say about her and I have told him he was being mean and he said he didn't care, she was everything he said she was. So I know, H regrets the A more than being "caught"

 

[shellys-trying]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

This debate is running in circles. No, affairs are wrong. If you want to sleep with someone else enough to actually CHEAT you need to end the relationship you're in first.

 

 

It is irrelevant whether or not YOU feel more empathy towards one side or the other Pocky. The fact of the matter is it doesn't make emotions and feelings less real or valid.

 

 

 

*****That is the first thing that I've read from your posts that make ANY sense!*****

[Guest]

After reading page after page of this thread - which has changed direction several times - it looks from my seat as though it comes down to everyone's feelings are normal, no one has a "right" to feel more or less than another person, everyone involved either directly or indirectly with an affair is going to be hurt. The degree of the hurt doesn't matter -- it hurts. Period.

 

 

Blame is shared by the parties involved and some of it can spill over to others---share and share alike I guess. And those who hurt have a human need to lay blame in order to hold onto their own self-esteem. Sometimes pride is all a person can have in a given situation. Pride can be the bootstraps we pull ourselves up by no matter where the blame may fall. We each need to know we are right sometimes -- even if no one else agrees with us. We need to validate ourselves TO ourselves, not to anyone else.

 

 

Misery may love company, but maybe everyone involved should go to their own corners to lick their wounds and NOT come out fighting again.

[shellys-trying]

I think that when you are married, you be with who you vowed to be with. You don't wimp out and go running after someone else. You made a commitment, man or woman, and you do what you are bound to do and do your part to make the marriage work.

 

In marriage, there is no "oh, I don't like him/her anymore. i want to try someone else."

 

Life isn't a box of chocolates where marriage is concerned. If you say 'I do'

then stick with it.

 

Infidelity is caused by supposedly commited ppl or spouses and ow/om who are selfish, thoughtless and deceitful individuals who only see what THEY want. If they really saw the big picture, there would be no cheating, sleeping around, etc.

But, alas, life is not perfect and the ones who participate in acts of infidelity are far less than that. And contrary to popular belief on {{some}} of these forums, cheaters and their accomplices AREN'T very nice either.

 

IMO...

[whichwayisup]

Life isn't a box of chocolates where marriage is concerned. If you say 'I do'

then stick with it.

 

That's fine on paper, but I think that if one or both parties is really unhappy and wants out - Let them go. When one person decides the marriage is over, there isn't a damn thing the other can do about it. End the marriage and THEN go be with somebody else! Don't stay with somebody just so you won't be alone or are too scared to start over. Problem is most people are too set in their ways to get to the point of ending it and starting over. That is half the reason why affairs start. I think, anyway. The bordem, the wanting to feel something, anything, then BOOM, somebody walks by that catches the eye - Some flirting takes place and then the next thing ya know a full fledged affair is in the works.

 

People shouldn't settle. If one is that unhappy, then they should get off their butts and DO something about it, the right way, not the easy way by cheating. yeah yeah yeah, easier said than done.

[whichwayisup]

And "acceptance of the situation" isn't soley the OW/OM's bag of tricks. I'd also like to point out that the majority of cheaters regret being caught more than they regret the action itself.

 

Ofcourse! Because their safe and dishonest world has been blown apart! The realization of the affair is known to the BS, and it's out in the open. No more hiding and sneaking around, praying that one doesn't get caught! That's half the excitement of the affair - It's taboo! No more having the cake and eating it too. SO yeah, being caught is worse the cheaters mind, not the actions that led up to it.

[Guest]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

That's fine on paper, but I think that if one or both parties is really unhappy and wants out - Let them go. When one person decides the marriage is over, there isn't a damn thing the other can do about it. End the marriage and THEN go be with somebody else! Don't stay with somebody just so you won't be alone or are too scared to start over. Problem is most people are too set in their ways to get to the point of ending it and starting over. That is half the reason why affairs start. I think, anyway. The bordem, the wanting to feel something, anything, then BOOM, somebody walks by that catches the eye - Some flirting takes place and then the next thing ya know a full fledged affair is in the works.

 

People shouldn't settle. If one is that unhappy, then they should get off their butts and DO something about it, the right way, not the easy way by cheating. yeah yeah yeah, easier said than done.

 

It is still cheating though, if the wife knows the husband is having an affair and doesn't care or want to leave? If the wife (or husband) wants to stay in the marriage for whatever reason (children, financial, etc.) and knows that her husband is having an affair but doesn't want a divorce it's not cheating then is it? Doesn't cheating imply lies and deception?

[whichwayisup]

It is still cheating though, if the wife knows the husband is having an affair and doesn't care or want to leave? If the wife (or husband) wants to stay in the marriage for whatever reason (children, financial, etc.) and knows that her husband is having an affair but doesn't want a divorce it's not cheating then is it? Doesn't cheating imply lies and deception

 

I guess if the wife knows about it and really doesn't care, then it's not full fledged cheating. Either way he is being unfaithful to his vows - Whether she cares or not. He's being unfaithful to his children. Most children don't think it's cool to have their daddy banging somebody else while still living at home, providing for them and being part of the family.

[Mr Spock]

I think it is sad that OW who are pursued by married men allow themselves to believe the lies and willingly enter into a relationship. I think it speaks volumes for the type of person they are. Weak, low-self esteem, perhaps selfish and uncaring of others. It's pathetic that there is some flawed part of them that will do this.

 

Does that make the woman who stays with a cheater moronic then???

[shellys-trying]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

That's fine on paper, but I think that if one or both parties is really unhappy and wants out - Let them go. When one person decides the marriage is over, there isn't a damn thing the other can do about it. End the marriage and THEN go be with somebody else! Don't stay with somebody just so you won't be alone or are too scared to start over. Problem is most people are too set in their ways to get to the point of ending it and starting over. That is half the reason why affairs start. I think, anyway. The bordem, the wanting to feel something, anything, then BOOM, somebody walks by that catches the eye - Some flirting takes place and then the next thing ya know a full fledged affair is in the works.

 

People shouldn't settle. If one is that unhappy, then they should get off their butts and DO something about it, the right way, not the easy way by cheating. yeah yeah yeah, easier said than done.

 

******well that's all fine and well, but I'm old fashioned and tend to think of marriage the way the Bible does. That's the way the world is, tho, the way you are thinking and when you think like that, then of course the "marriage" thing will get torn apart .

When you think worldly, then you act worldly.

I may still have resentments over what my H did, but I fall back on a higher, more knowing power to guide me thru some of the rough spots. Oops! i guess I'm witnessing!

I'm just sorry there isn't more ppl out there doing the same. There wouldn't be any need for forums like Love Shack. ***********

 

So, I guess it's a moot point. ******

[whichwayisup]

Originally posted by shellys-trying

 

 

******well that's all fine and well, but I'm old fashioned and tend to think of marriage the way the Bible does. That's the way the world is, tho, the way you are thinking and when you think like that, then of course the "marriage" thing will get torn apart .

When you think worldly, then you act worldly.

I may still have resentments over what my H did, but I fall back on a higher, more knowing power to guide me thru some of the rough spots. Oops! i guess I'm witnessing!

I'm just sorry there isn't more ppl out there doing the same. There wouldn't be any need for forums like Love Shack. ***********

 

So, I guess it's a moot point. ******

 

I'm generalizing. I'm not talking specifically about myself or anybody else.

 

My point really is, if one person decides they want out of the marriage and doesn't love the other person anymore, it's over. Whether it says in the bible to stay no matter what and work it out. It's like leading a horse to water. You can lead all you want to but you can't make a horse drink unless it's thirsty.

 

I DO believe that people give in too easily and don't put 1000% in to make the marriage work. Many take the easy way out - Walk away or just go have an affair. I'm a real romantic at heart, I do believe that love can last forever - AS long as both parties are willing to keep it alive and well.