lynnered Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup . Sorry, I'm calling Bullcrap on this one. It IS DIFFERENT as she (as any wife) has INVESTMENT in her husband. A Wedding in which VOWS were taken. Children, families bonded, friends, neighbours, a LIFE together. The OW does NOT have any of that - Please, don't compare and say it is not any different cuz it is. a wedding is not ownership , "Children, families bonded, friends, neighbors, a LIFE together" is to some MM a obligation ,a place they don't want to be , people fall out of love and want to do all this therapy this & that obv something wasn't right he choose 2b with someone else , not all marriages are forever , just because you have kids does not mean you should stay, and as a OW of 4 years i have more emotially with him ,communication ,sexually then she ever has ,SO I FEEL I CAN & WOULD COMPARE ANYWAY I SEE FIT all she has is a man who is fearful of child support & not seeing his child , he has finally gotten his courage up since i walked away , he said the realazation of losing me , he has started to communicate that he is not happy ,hasn't been ?nd her as far as custody,etc , he is waiting to get in touch with a lawyer fried of his as far as legal issues, anyway its not all black or white , i used to feel coming to this site was helpful now its basically a gang-bang from BS , crying poor me or attaching OW who are still with MM , or these no it alls who have never been in the situation judging , he's the one that betrayed you , not me i never said in sickness &in health 2 you, so attack him , i 100%agree with spock Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Don't get p#ssed at me, I'm just replying to some other people's thoughts - and to this thread. It is nothing personal against anyone, so don't take what I've said so personally. Why attack ME personally now? BB and I and S were just banging afew posts back and forth, having an interesting discussion, noone is bent out of shape except you. And the whole point of this thread is to share thoughts. Anybody can jump on and give their 2 cents worth. This thread is contraversal anyway, just like the other one about what wives should say to OW. IT will get the blood boiling, some are very passionate...Just don't take anything I say out of context. I read other posts on Infidelity and I formed afew thoughts and put them down here. Link to post Share on other sites
lynnered Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup Don't get p#ssed at me, I'm just replying to some other people's thoughts - and to this thread. It is nothing personal against anyone, so don't take what I've said so personally. Why attack ME personally now? BB and I and S were just banging afew posts back and forth, having an interesting discussion, noone is bent out of shape except you. And the whole point of this thread is to share thoughts. Anybody can jump on and give their 2 cents worth. This thread is contraversal anyway, just like the other one about what wives should say to OW. IT will get the blood boiling, some are very passionate...Just don't take anything I say out of context. I read other posts on Infidelity and I formed afew thoughts and put them down here. i apoligize if u misunderstood me to be personally attacking u , i read the thread , i was replying in general to the whole thing so again sorry if it seemed that way had thoughts on that perticualr quote and typed my thoughts Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 No probs! I could have read it the wrong way as well... Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock It's a healthier attitude to have where you acknowledge the faults of others but admit that you still love them. How true!!! beautifully written ! Mr. Spock Link to post Share on other sites
jj003 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by phillygirl63 Spock, you obviously missed my point in my last post. I didn't start a relationship with someone I knew was capable of lying and cheating as an OW does. I started a relationship with a single, free man. My husband did lie and cheat on me. No two ways about that. Will I be capable of trusting him 100% ever again? Probably not, although I'd say I'm close after four years and lots of therapy together. But Spock, we married women have a heck of a lot more invested in our husbands than OW have in their MM. Children, families (his and hers), houses, finances, years of memories, and future years spent with grandchildren. My question was...what do the OW have with that man, other than the lies he feeds them? Why would they want to stay with him? I'm not so sure had I been childless my husband and I would have made it through the rough patch. I'm glad we did but it wouldn't have been such a big investment to lose had I'd have to just worry about myself. My question is why do you want to be with someone who do not love you and you alone? and if you love him, why do you want to make him stay with you just because of your past together? or your investment? or even your childern? There are many well adjusted kids with disvorced parents... Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I truly understand what you are trying to say but keep in mind, the betrayed spouse knew the MM when he was single and free. He wasn't cheating (or was he?) and making up insane lies while he was wooing her and making sure he made her his wife. My husband cheated on me and I found out after 15 years of marriage that he betrayed my trust and lied to me. I did not know before this time that he could lie and manipulate. My point is this, why do OW want to be with someone who are such capable liars and manipulative people? Look, when you start something with a married man you already know he is a liar and a cheat. I don't get why that's a turn-on and how you could really truly love someone like that. I fell in love with my husband when he was single and free. I didn't become deeply in love with him until I saw what a wonderful father he was. When he cheated, part of that love died with me, but because there was a powerful bond between us I didn't want to give that up. The bond was the life we built for the past 15 years. What's the bond OW share with a man that will lie and cheat to be with them and then most of the time let them down when they have to call up and cancel? I'd like to point out that most OW also don't enter the relationship 'knowing' that the mm is feeding them a pile of cr^p either. The mm wasnt lying (or was he) while he was wooing her and making sure she was his girl. Link to post Share on other sites
CurlyIam Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The main difference between the wife and the OW is that the fact that the wife actually has someone. The OW only borrows it. No one can decide whom they're falling inlove with, so I'm certainly not pointing fingers at OW for being inlove. As far as acting on their feelings is concerned, especially while knowing that the subject of their attention is married, irrespective of the MM's action, I do personally believe that they're weak for doing so. Of course, it's much safer to the the OW, to be the contester than to actually be the one defending your relationship. It's much more easier to break a marriage than to make a marriage work. Hence the fact that women would rather live by the "hey, men put their d*cks in every hole they see and they're loving it" attitude. Their life, their choice; their happiness. But by doing so, they chose being alone, they chose the number 2 from the start. Now, that's not only sad, but showing poor self esteem. Going after a MM and settling for one afternoon in week and sleeping alone for the rest of the week no winter holidays or vacation together, no birthday together, - to me, that is a punishment in itsself. IT's not just men who do that, women do it too. It goes both ways, as far as I'm concerned. I do think women are just as bad as men, with regard to this issue. Who cares about borrowed stuff, what's important is who owns it. And as far as money is concerned, unless you've been dirt poor and knew how that felt, you're not intitled to make one comment about it. Funny how the OW is so quick to judge the wife yet takes such a great offence in being judged herself. Such a sensibility, as I've reiterated befor, only hides a very poor self esteem. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 It's much more easier to break a marriage than to make a marriage work. i hardly think so, read this forum. i'm not saying anybody here went in with intent to break up a marriage but if you are looking at it as a game plan, (which by the way it isnt) then i think this statement is completely false in terms of who has the easier mission. And as far as money is concerned, unless you've been dirt poor and knew how that felt, you're not intitled to make one comment about it. Funny how the OW is so quick to judge the wife yet takes such a great offence in being judged herself. Such a sensibility, as I've reiterated befor, only hides a very poor self esteem. dont know what the money thing is about, is it sposed to be a metaphor? i dont think any ow is judging the wives here, i think the point that spock was making is that the critisism thrown constantly at the ow by bs's in this forum is hypocritical at best. Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by newbby I'd like to point out that most OW also don't enter the relationship 'knowing' that the mm is feeding them a pile of cr^p either. The mm wasnt lying (or was he) while he was wooing her and making sure she was his girl. Why do you think that if he is married and obviously lying to his wife about you, he isn't lying to you? You already know he is married and is pursuing you - so you already know he cheats and lies. I've read all your posts and I think it's great there are forums where people can express opinions and disagree on things. I have no doubt that the OW and the BS on here are basically good, kind people who - like everyone else in the world - are flawed individuals at times. I do find it ironic though that when a BS comes on and gives her views she basically gets beaten up trying to make the OW understand where she is coming from. Link to post Share on other sites
Pocky Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 If my OM loved me so much he shouldn't have encouraged me to do something that was so wrong. There is nothing giving about the love shared within an affair. It's a take-take relationship and always will be as long as both people support this behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 I do find it ironic though that when a BS comes on and gives her views she basically gets beaten up trying to make the OW understand I don't see the irony at all. And the ow/om takes far more crap on this forum than you ever would as a BS. It's a hard lesson for many to learn that the person their spouse is attracted to isn't evil, isn't a succubus, and in fact is quite in love with their spouse. Looking inside yourself and examining where the marriage went wrong isn't FUN by any means, and it's so much easier to push the blame onto the interloper than to bother trying to fix what's inside. Yes, there are people that do it. Kudos to you-but more tend to threaten divorce, custody battles and the like to keep their wayward spouse in line. When that happens, what self preserving human being DOESN'T accuse the OW/OM of being evil and luring them with sex?? It shifts the blame and makes life at home easier. It's a hard concept to grasp for the BS, but many affairs are long standing and based on things other than carnal interest. That being said, on the other shoe, if you're engaged in an affair with someone and they won't leave you need to have the balls to walk away from it. Because you won't get what you need. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 If my OM loved me so much he shouldn't have encouraged me to do something that was so wrong. There is nothing giving about the love shared within an affair. It's a take-take relationship and always will be as long as both people support this behavior Oddly enough Pocky, that's all I ever did was give. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 i hardly think so, read this forum. i'm not saying anybody here went in with intent to break up a marriage but if you are looking at it as a game plan, (which by the way it isnt) then i think this statement is completely false in terms of who has the easier mission. Yeah the intent isn't there because there is NO thinking of the wife and the consquences of actions when cheating! That is why! You may not break the marriage up, but damage WILL be done - TRUST is gone, the pain that the BS has to deal with. I don't see the irony at all. And the ow/om takes far more crap on this forum than you ever would as a BS. And why would the BS get any crap? Definately not warranted since they were the ones who were betrayed. Link to post Share on other sites
Pocky Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock Oddly enough Pocky, that's all I ever did was give. How did you give when in order to give you asked him to deceive? If you loved an alcoholic, would you hand him a drink and claim that you did it because you loved him? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 And why would the BS get any crap? Definately not warranted since they were the ones who were betrayed Don't be deliberately obtuse. Why would your pain give you the right to dish out crap to someone coming on here looking for HELP, regardless if you approve personally of their situation?? A marriage takes two people. No, it's not the fault of the BS that they were cheated on. It IS half their fault that the marriage deteriorated to the point where that happened. Yes, sometimes you do marry a total a**h*** and nothing you do will help. That's when you LEAVE. Regardless of your "investment". It's the attitude of "I HURT and I'm the WIFE so everyone cater to ME-I get to JUDGE, I was BETRAYED" on this forum that brings a hail of fury from any OW/OM. Marriage doesn't make your hurt more important, or more severe, than anyone elses. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 How did you give when in order to give you asked him to deceive? If you loved an alcoholic, would you hand him a drink and claim that you did it because you loved him? I don't recall asking anyone to lie for me, ever Pocky. And it's a bad comparison, loving an alcoholic to loving someone you can't be public with. Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Spock, by the tone of your posts it sounds like you are hurting a lot. I truly hope you have people in the "real world" that you can talk to and that can support you. I wish you the best with everything. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 You've misunderstood what I said Spock. Read again. It IS half their fault that the marriage deteriorated to the point where that happened Every situation is different, I'm sure yes in some cases it IS half their fault but there are MANY MANY marriages where the BS tries to talk and open up - and the spouse still goes and cheats. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by phillygirl63 Spock, by the tone of your posts it sounds like you are hurting a lot. I truly hope you have people in the "real world" that you can talk to and that can support you. I wish you the best with everything. Actually, I'm not. And shame on you for trying to categorize me as emotional. Link to post Share on other sites
Pocky Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock I don't recall asking anyone to lie for me, ever Pocky. And it's a bad comparison, loving an alcoholic to loving someone you can't be public with. You didn't ask him not to lie. The point I'm making with the comparison is that as the OW/OM you contribute to the behavior. You (the OW/OM), by your acceptance of the situation, encourage the spouse to cheat. You both know it's wrong, yet you do nothing to stop it. You allowed someone that you claimed to have loved to do something that they would eventually regret. You allowed them to continue with their mistake and not only did you stand by and watch, but you helped! You were a willing participant. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup You've misunderstood what I said Spock. Read again. Every situation is different, I'm sure yes in some cases it IS half their fault but there are MANY MANY marriages where the BS tries to talk and open up - and the spouse still goes and cheats. And you're not reading what I'm posting. Please note the following Yes, sometimes you do marry a total a**h*** and nothing you do will help. That's when you LEAVE. Regardless of your "investment". Both parties on either end of a cheater can be the WORST enablers. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mr Spock Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Pocky You didn't ask him not to lie. The point I'm making with the comparison is that as the OW/OM you contribute to the behavior. You (the OW/OM), by your acceptance of the situation, encourage the spouse to cheat. You both know it's wrong, yet you do nothing to stop it. You allowed someone that you claimed to have loved to do something that they would eventually regret. You allowed them to continue with their mistake and not only did you stand by and watch, but you helped! You were a willing participant. Well I'm not debating THAT pocky. OW are the great enablers. I'm stating that the legitamacy of marriage doesn't give more credit to a broken heart on this site than it does to the broken heart of the other side. And you forget, the OW/OM WANTS a relationship. Why would they stop something when they think they can have it?? The great "delusion". It's only when it begins to wear off that you find people getting desperate enough to post their problems on an online forum. And "acceptance of the situation" isn't soley the OW/OM's bag of tricks. I'd also like to point out that the majority of cheaters regret being caught more than they regret the action itself. The posts of wives and husbands stuck in this situation prove that. There are a few exceptions to the rule, like there are on the flip side where the affair becomes a prolonged and lasting relationship. But not many. Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock Actually, I'm not. And shame on you for trying to categorize me as emotional. Sorry Spock, didn't mean to offend. Link to post Share on other sites
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