What Other Women Have to Say to Betrayed Wives

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'm stating that the legitamacy of marriage doesn't give more credit to a broken heart on this site than it does to the broken heart of the other side.

 

Well, when spreading around empathy, compassion and understanding, one might be more inclined to provide this to one that accidentally received third degree burns when someone set their house on fire as opposed to someone that received third degree burns when they poured gasoline on themselves and lit a match.

 

The pain and suffering may be of the same degree, but the element of awareness changes things. Is it not natural to empathize more with those that were harmed by no fault of their own than those that intentionally and knowingly participated in their own suffering?

[Mr Spock]

Well, when spreading around empathy, compassion and understanding, one might be more inclined to provide this to one that accidentally received third degree burns when someone set their house on fire as opposed to someone that received third degree burns when they poured gasoline on themselves and lit a match.

 

 

I'd liken it more to someone pouring gasoline ON you and setting you on fire. You'd make a horrible nurse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it not natural to empathize more with those that were harmed by no fault of their own than those that intentionally and knowingly participated in their own suffering?

 

Except there IS NO "no fault". (is that a double negative?)

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'd liken it more to someone pouring gasoline ON you and setting you on fire. You'd make a horrible nurse.

 

No one forces anyone to enter into the role of the OW/OM. When the decision is made, whether it's at the very beginning because the understanding of the situation was clearly presented, or it's later in the relationship, when the truth of the relationship may have been presented, the decision to participate in the behavior is made by each person. That is at the point when someone would pour gasoline on themselves. Continuing with the affair is the match, which is closely held by the OW/OOM, and eventually causes the person to become inflamed and wounded.

 

The action is performed by a single individual - the OW/OM. No one else pours the gasoline on the OM/OW and no one else lights the match.

 

 

Except there IS NO "no fault". (is that a double negative?)

 

The spouse that doesn't cheat is the no fault bystander. Cheating is not and should not be considered an acceptable effect of a troubled marriage. The spouse that does not cheat and is unaware that their spouse is cheating is not at fault for the affair.

[whichwayisup]

The spouse that doesn't cheat is the no fault bystander. Cheating is not and should not be considered an acceptable effect of trouble within a marriage. The spouse that does not cheat and is unaware that their spouse is cheating is not at fault for the affair.

 

There is NO excuse to cheat - It's the easy and selfish way of handling things rather than actually GO to the spouse and say, "I'm unhappy, I think we should work things out...Go to councilling." It's SO much easier to go and have the affair, feel better and be happier - Then think, hey, my marriage ain't that bad after all ... My wife/husband thinks all is cool so let's just continue as we are...No point in rocking the boat and actually WORKING on the marriage to fix it.

 

Sadly though, I do remember something DazednConfused had posted one time...That if his wife had actually gave him a heads up - That she was feeling as she was and told him she was developing feelings for OM, they could have fixed things right away...Easier said than done right? Isn't that always the case? Many cheaters once caught always say I wish it didn't happen or if I could take it back I would...I'll now do all I can to make it up to you. ... Then the OW/OM is left sitting there with a broken heart...Wondering why and turning it on themselves because they probably feel like second best as the Cheating spouse goes back home...

[Mr Spock]

The spouse that doesn't cheat is the no fault bystander. Cheating is not and should not be considered an acceptable effect of a troubled marriage. The spouse that does not cheat and is unaware that their spouse is cheating is not at fault for the affair.

 

 

You keep trying to lecture on things that I'm not actually saying. I wish you'd read my posts more thoroughly.

 

 

No one forces anyone to enter into the role of the OW/OM. When the decision is made, whether it's at the very beginning because the understanding of the situation was clearly presented, or it's later in the relationship, when the truth of the relationship may have been presented, the decision to participate in the behavior is made by each person. That is at the point when someone would pour gasoline on themselves. Continuing with the affair is the match, which is closely held by the OW/OOM, and eventually causes the person to become inflamed and wounded.

 

The action is performed by a single individual - the OW/OM. No one else pours the gasoline on the OM/OW and no one else lights the match.

 

This is starting to sound silly. By expressing interest in a relationship with the OW/OM the MM/MW pours gasoline on them. That is what I meant. If there is anyone left that can understand what we're trying to say.

[whichwayisup]

Everyone has different views and thoughts on this and by starting a thread like this IS going to cause some heated discussions. You must have known this. And anybody can post and put their thoughts down not just OW/OM and BS's.

 

Nobody is lecturing, it's called expressing their opinions. You may/may not like what others have to say but they have a right to put it down anyway.

[newbby]

You didn't ask him not to lie.

 

The point I'm making with the comparison is that as the OW/OM you contribute to the behavior. You (the OW/OM), by your acceptance of the situation, encourage the spouse to cheat. You both know it's wrong, yet you do nothing to stop it. You allowed someone that you claimed to have loved to do something that they would eventually regret. You allowed them to continue with their mistake and not only did you stand by and watch, but you helped! You were a willing participant.

 

so now the ow also has to take responsibility for the mm's actions???

[whichwayisup]

Originally posted by newbby

 

 

so now the ow also has to take responsibility for the mm's actions???

 

She was a 'willing' part of it, yes, both parties share some responsibility. Takes TWO to tango. Don't be thinking that the MM is ALL at fault and the OW didn't have a helping hand. That's crazy!

 

Now if the OW did not KNOW that he was married, that's different - BUT only if she ends it and walks away... She sticks around, then yes, she is partially responsible! Accountability and consquences. Maybe these should be thought about before...Sadly though, it never is until it's too late...

[phillygirl63]

You know what girls? Any MM that cheats and lies is not a good husband to the wife or a good boyfriend to the OW. Doesn't matter. Period. If they are lying to the wife they are absolutely lying to the OW. Married women should be prepared to dump their butt if they are repeat offenders and single women should just know enough to stay away -- no matter what lines they are being fed. And as for sex...if any OW truly thinks their MM is not having sex with his wife that's a fantasy they choose to believe. Most cases, the marriage is not nearly as horrible as the MM portrays to the OW.

[newbby]

exactly philly girl, both ow and bs are equally dumb, and cs just sits back and lets us fight over him.

we have just played right into his hands. he probably gets off on it too.

[whichwayisup]

MM leaves his wife. Gets together with OW. They have a serious relationship, possibly ending up in marriage.

 

My question is then...HOW does one TRUST in a situation like that? Wouldn't OW be extremely worried he'd go and cheat on her? Not a good way to start off a marriage or relationship...

 

Most cases, the marriage is not nearly as horrible as the MM portrays to the OW.

 

That is true. MM will say wife is this and that...Or I get no sex, she hates me and treats me like crap etc...It is a total 'Poor Me' attitude to take and a quite a manipulative one at that - MM KNOWS that OW will coddle him, and make it all better - Peak her interest in him even more because he gives her so much more attention too.

 

**NOT ment to offend anybody, I'm just generalizing abit here, OK...**

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

 

You keep trying to lecture on things that I'm not actually saying. I wish you'd read my posts more thoroughly.

 

I'm not lecturing you. I'm discussing a topic with you. I'm not a scorned wife trying to persecute you. I'm providing a different perspective - the perspective from the cheating spouse. I am reading your posts thoroughly - possibly you and I are not talking about the same thing.

 

Pocky wrote:

 

Is it not natural to empathize more with those that were harmed by no fault of their own than those that intentionally and knowingly participated in their own suffering?

 

Which translates to me stating that the unaware spouse that is the victim of a cheating spouse has not intentionally or knowingly participated in the behavior (affair) that perpetuates their own suffering. They are in essence, as far as the affair is concerned, the innocent bystander.

 

Spock wrote:

 

Except there IS NO "no fault". (is that a double negative?)

 

Which I translated as you stating that the non-cheating spouse is not innocent and has some part of the blame for the affair (issues at home, lack of communication).

 

Pocky wrote:

 

The spouse that doesn't cheat is the no fault bystander. Cheating is not and should not be considered an acceptable effect of a troubled marriage. The spouse that does not cheat and is unaware that their spouse is cheating is not at fault for the affair.

 

Which was my disagreeing with you that there is a no-fault person within the equation. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. If there is no no-fault then what would you term the non-cheating spouse?

 

Spock wrote:

 

This is starting to sound silly. By expressing interest in a relationship with the OW/OM the MM/MW pours gasoline on them. That is what I meant. If there is anyone left that can understand what we're trying to say.

 

Okay - I see your point. Then who the hell would sit there with drenched clothes and lit a match? This makes it seem like the OW/OM is a victim and unable to defend themselves against the stealth cheater that sneaks up on them offers them a chance for an affair.

 

Originally posted by newbby

 

 

so now the ow also has to take responsibility for the mm's actions???

 

That's not what I'm saying. My point is, if the OW/OM loves this person so much then they should want protect them and do what's best for them. Allowing someone you love dearly to participate in a behavior that will eventually devastate their life doesn't seem like something someone should do if they truly loved you and were doing nothing but giving love. The image of the self-sacrificing OW/OM that offers up everything they have to the cheating MM/MW doesn't sit well with me. I think it's a distorted image - I don't believe that within the confines of an affair there is a selfless-giving type of love. Everything about the relationship, on both sides, is based on selfishness. The cheating spouse and the OW/OM.

[newbby]

i am truly guilty of believing my mm, i dont know why, perhaps i just wanted to, same as the wife wants to believe the cs when he says it was all the ow's fault, tempting him with sex when he was feeling so bad about himself and vulnerable, not leaving him alone etc.

it is very hard to take somebodys marriage seriously when they are heavily pursuing you.

it is true i did not think of the wife, i wanted to be happy, i wanted to believe that mm was soo totally blown away by me that he wanted to be with me. i wanted to believe him when he said his marriage was pretty much over. i wont lie and say i thought about the wife at all, i didnt. i was depressed and he came along and pestered me and bombarded me with compliments and it felt really good.

[whichwayisup]

Everything about the relationship, on both sides, is based on selfishness. The cheating spouse and the OW/OM.

 

Perfectly put. They're so caught up in it neither are thinking straight. It's almost like an obession.

[newbby]

That's not what I'm saying. My point is, if the OW/OM loves this person so much then they should want protect them and do what's best for them. Allowing someone you love dearly to participate in a behavior that will eventually devastate their life doesn't seem like something someone should do if they truly loved you and were doing nothing but giving love. The image of the self-sacrificing OW/OM that offers up everything they have to the cheating MM/MW doesn't sit well with me. I think it's a distorted image - I don't believe that within the confines of an affair there is a selfless-giving type of love. Everything about the relationship, on both sides, is based on selfishness. The cheating spouse and the OW/OM.

 

whilst unconditional love does exist, it rarely exists in relationships between the sexes. i might just as well say, why if you love your husband so much, dont you let him go and stick it in other women cos it makes him happier.

[Mr Spock]

GAH!!!!

 

Pocky and WWIU don't assume I'm using lecturing in a negative connotation, I'm not. It's just another word for teaching, which in this case would be your own POV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone has different views and thoughts on this and by starting a thread like this IS going to cause some heated discussions. You must have known this. And anybody can post and put their thoughts down not just OW/OM and BS's.

 

PLEASE refer to the big, black letters in the beginning of the thread that someone (thankfully) finally put up.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

GAH!!!!

 

Pocky and WWIU don't assume I'm using lecturing in a negative connotation, I'm not. It's just another word for teaching, which in this case would be your own POV.

 

PLEASE refer to the big, black letters in the beginning of the thread that someone (thankfully) finally put up.

 

Why the heightened emotion? Words may have similar meanings, but can have different connotations. To use the term lecturing denotes a negative connotation and is commonly used as such.

 

Compare this statement:

 

You keep trying to lecture on things that I'm not actually saying. I wish you'd read my posts more thoroughly.

 

to an alternate statement:

 

You keep discussing things I'm not actually saying. I wish you'd read my posts more thoroughly.

 

They say the same thing, but have different tones. Regardless, since this isn't class, I'll refrain from lecturing you further on your choice of words.

[Mr Spock]

The image of the self-sacrificing OW/OM that offers up everything they have to the cheating MM/MW doesn't sit well with me. I think it's a distorted image - I don't believe that within the confines of an affair there is a selfless-giving type of love. Everything about the relationship, on both sides, is based on selfishness. The cheating spouse and the OW/OM

 

And you're assuming that I (using me as an example, since it was me you responded to) see myself as sacrificial? I don't. All I stated is that I was the one giving in the relationship(s) and he was the one taking-which made it one incredibly unhealthy situation for me to be in. Sure, there is selfishness. People are selfish. I posted on it somewhere else-when a man makes advances on a woman she sees happiness and aims to have that. Like when you're in grade 6 and are scribbling Mr and Mrs so and so on your binder. People do not enter relationships for the good of the other person, they do it for themeselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allowing someone you love dearly to participate in a behavior that will eventually devastate their life doesn't seem like something someone should do if they truly loved you and were doing nothing but giving love.

 

Except that arguement doesn't work to a woman convinced he will be happy with her. Understand?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

u know what girls? Any MM that cheats and lies is not a good husband to the wife or a good boyfriend to the OW. Doesn't matter. Period. If they are lying to the wife they are absolutely lying to the OW. Married women should be prepared to dump their butt if they are repeat offenders and single women should just know enough to stay away -- no matter what lines they are being fed. And as for sex...if any OW truly thinks their MM is not having sex with his wife that's a fantasy they choose to believe. Most cases, the marriage is not nearly as horrible as the MM portrays to the OW.

 

You're not saying anything particularly new. The biggest mistake people making is thinking they're the exception to the rule. But we ALL do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My question is then...HOW does one TRUST in a situation like that? Wouldn't OW be extremely worried he'd go and cheat on her? Not a good way to start off a marriage or relationship...

 

Now we're theorizing on hypothetical situations. How do you rebuild trust in a marriage where an affair has happened?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

She sticks around, then yes, she is partially responsible! Accountability and consquences. Maybe these should be thought about before...Sadly though, it never is until it's too late...

 

I'm not denying that. I'm telling you that it's less wrong for the OW/OM to try and pursue happiness with someone who is unhappy in their current marriage, enough so to seek out a NEW partner and try with them than it for a committed partner to cheat, and the blame should be recognized and distributed thusly. On this forum.

[Mr Spock]

Why the heightened emotion? Words may have similar meanings, but can have different connotations. To use the term lecturing denotes a negative connotation and is commonly used as such.

 

Compare this statement:

 

You keep trying to lecture on things that I'm not actually saying. I wish you'd read my posts more thoroughly.

 

to an alternate statement:

 

You keep discussing things I'm not actually saying. I wish you'd read my posts more thoroughly.

 

They say the same thing, but have different tones. Regardless, since this isn't class, I'll refrain from lecturing you further on your choice of words.

 

 

And I'll refrain from discussing how your gasoline lit match analogy reads.

 

 

You seem to think that since OP are less equal in relationship status that their voice should be less equal on an internet forum, which is not the case. That their pain should be discounted or lesser than a complete and total strangers in a discussion simply because they are on the BS side of the equation. I'm saying that it shouldn't.

[whichwayisup]

Now we're theorizing on hypothetical situations. How do you rebuild trust in a marriage where an affair has happened?

 

So what? It brings more into this conversation. I don't think it's hypothetical - there are some who actually leave and be with the OW. ALL I said was, how can one really trust aftering being part in ending another marriage? I'm sure some MM aren't too trusting of OW either. Just not a good foundation to start off a relationship.

 

How do you rebuild trust in a marriage where an affair has happened?

 

I guess it's the same isn't it? Councilling and deciding to WANT to be together. Learning how to trust fully. Many marriages though have alot of other factors, kids, house, mortgage, health issues etc...SO it isn't as easy for the BS to say F*ck you and walk away...IF the BS is willing to forgive, then the MM better step up to plate to MAKE the effort to work it out and make it up to his wife. (Have you ever read DazednConfused's thread???? It's quite the eye opener.)

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

And I'll refrain from discussing how your gasoline lit match analogy reads.

 

 

You seem to think that since OP are less equal in relationship status that their voice should be less equal on an internet forum, which is not the case. That their pain should be discounted or lesser than a complete and total strangers in a discussion simply because they are on the BS side of the equation. I'm saying that it shouldn't.

 

I'll clarify what I'm saying so there isn't any further misunderstanding.

 

When faced with the option of providing compassion and understanding, one is more likely to extend those emotions to someone they don't see as responsible for their own suffering. When confronted with the comparison: one that knowingly participated and implemented decisions that caused their own suffering to one that was unknowingly placed in a position of suffering, people are more likely to extend compassion to the person that was innocently affected.

 

I'll give you another example since I know you love them so much.

 

A man is robbing a bank. He shoots a woman in the stomach. As he's running out the security guard shoots him in the stomach. Both are suffering to the same degree - both have the same wounds and both are identical in their pain. Which one would you feel more compassionate towards?

[sami]

That's always true though pocky!!!!??????

[hotgurl]

This is starting to sound silly. By expressing interest in a relationship with the OW/OM the MM/MW pours gasoline on them. That is what I meant. If there is anyone left that can understand what we're trying to say.

 

I don't agree with this. even though the MM expresses interest doesn't mean the OW/OM has to accept the interest. so they are the ones making the choice to pour gasoline on themselves. in the same way if you happen upon a gas container you make the choice to pour it on yourself. the BS never gets to make that choice so she is doused in gasoline.

 

another thing that has been on my mind since I've been here reading threads you see a lot of OW/OM post saying I don't owe the BS anything. why should I sacrifice my happiness for someone else.

 

this strikes me as odd as I think everyone should try to treat other people decently. It seems the same kind of logic a thief would use when stealing someone purse etc.. when should he tamper his desires to be kind to another person.

 

the BS shares most of the blame but like an accessory to murder the OW/OM shares blame as well. and I think Bs get so angry at the OW is because people expect a certain amount of decency or consideration in others and certainly sleeping with a MM shows neither.

[whichwayisup]

The OW should be aware of the "pain" because they've involved themselves with a man who is taken already, either married or in a serious relationship. Betrayed spouses are not aware of the pain until they find out.

 

There's another example, more direct. (NOT meant to offend anybody...)

[newbby]

A man is robbing a bank. He shoots a woman in the stomach. As he's running out the security guard shoots him in the stomach. Both are suffering to the same degree - both have the same wounds and both are identical in their pain. Which one would you feel more compassionate towards?

you see this is the misconception, the ow does not rob the wife, the husband is already pursuing the ow.

a better analogy would be: a bag of money is chasing a man down the road....