What Other Women Have to Say to Betrayed Wives

[Mr Spock]

Instead of picking the posts apart and only quoting something that doesn't directly apply to your question, but applies to different parts of the topic, you might have provided yourself with a better answer

 

And right back at you

 

Pocky-cheating is wrong. Spock-yes, but that doesn't make the emotions of the OW any less real. Pocky-cheating is wrong, and not the fault of the spouse. Spock-yes, but that doesn't make the emotions of the spouse more important on an internet forum than the OW. Pocky-I never said that. Cheating is wrong. Spock-I understand that, but it doesn't make one party superior to another on an internet forum. Pocky-Cheating is wrong.

 

 

I'm not looking for personal validation, not from anyone here. Are you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may as well have committed murder because in the realm of social morality they're not too far from each other.

 

That's debatable (sic?)

[HoneyWheat]

Im glad spock spoke because i have been an other woman without knowing it and I feel betrayed.

 

i feel just as much pain as the spouse would have. I experience the pain of betrayal just as she does.

 

I do not believe in cheating.

 

But i also think, some marriages are not valid. My view is that the parties to the marriage should just end it and then move on with someone new.

 

but i think that the cheater is afraid because he/she is not sure if leaving is the right thing to do..not sure if the ow is the right one one or not...

 

i think its very confusing and complicated situation

 

i think fear of communication plays into the situation....i only think this after reading the boards the last few days

 

so i think the cheater learns to communicate with the om/ow and gets up the courgage to try with the spouse...i think of the om/ow as the cheater's guinea pig now...i just do

 

especially after reading the betrayed spouse's letter to the ow

 

and as an ow i appreciated hearing what she had to say...because she was very kind even though she felt angry and upset that this had been done to her

 

i felt i learned something from reading her letter...and the truth is she has respect for the ow...she wants the ow to have her own man and treat her right...she feels ALL WOMEN are deserving of faithful spouse.....

 

but i do agree that ow/om do get a bum wrap as the evil person...but that's why i put in a post about different kinds of om/ow...i know I am not evil and I did not look for it. I am also a victim of a cheater.

 

I have not known how to grieve about it because its like i feel betrayed but he wasn't mine to begin with...its very confusing for someone like me to deal with it and work through it

[whichwayisup]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I do apologise for the confusion as well...it was only today that the note was added (and thank you for that)

 

I get what you mean now. When I said it was going in circles I mean like arguing apples and oranges.

 

Yup, I get what you mean too. I missed that apples/oranges thing...I swear the heat here is making me insane!

[izzybelle]

i'm not sure anyone here, currently anyway, is advocating for people to have affairs.

 

in my conversations with a friend who is divorcing because his W left him for her MM i've had some unusual insights into the blame game. while i'm sure on some level he dislikes this MM very much, he has taken the opporutunity to discover what it was about him, and his relationship with his W that led to their downfall. unlike some BS, he accepts a great deal of the responsibility for what went wrong and is working very hard to "fix" himself.

 

i see so much here about the "fog" of affairs. sometimes when that fog lifts we see that the M is what was in the fog and the reality of ending the M suddenly provides the clarity that we knew was lacking in our lives. we also hear so much about the grass not being greener, well, sometimes it is. and while i'm not advocating for affairs by any means, i think it's naive to believe that the "grass" in the marriage, because of history, a wedding, mortgages, children, etc. is always necessarily greener. sometimes the grass is just plain dead and no matter how much water or fertilizer we put on it, we're facing a losing battle, if it's dead it's dead. and you can try to coerce it back to life, plant flowers in it and make it look beautiful for a while, but if we don't figure out why it died in the first place, it's bound to wither and die again, and again, and again. and sure, sometimes it's easier to blame the dying grass on the neighbor's dog who routinely comes over and does his thing. but while it's easier to blame it on someone else, sometimes (and yes, i said SOMETIMES, not ALWAYS) the fault also lies within. and while i do feel badly for so many of the BSs who post here, i worry that some are just setting themselves up for another round. those who spend so much time blaming others and not taking a good look at how they got where they are, are bound to end up back in the same sorry state of affairs (excuse the pun). yes, there are innocent victims just as there are OWs who aren't aware that the MM is married.

 

and yes, many OW have their heads in the sand or up their a$$es for getting involved with these men, but much like the Ws want to believe that the A was all a big mistake that their H didn't mean, that the OW was some awful person who pursued them, we (OWs) sometimes want to believe the "my marriage is over" "i'm getting a divorce" "my W doesn't understand me" lines. we want to believe in people, we don't want to think that someone would lie to us for their own benefit. we believe what we want in our hearts to be true, as do the Ws.

[Pocky]

I've clearly stated my answer three times to the first post and it didn't say anything about how cheating is wrong.

 

Pocky wrote:

The pain and suffering may be of the same degree, but the element of awareness changes things. Is it not natural to empathize more with those that were harmed by no fault of their own than those that intentionally and knowingly participated in their own suffering?

 

Pocky wrote:

I'll clarify what I'm saying so there isn't any further misunderstanding.

 

When faced with the option of providing compassion and understanding, one is more likely to extend those emotions to someone they don't see as responsible for their own suffering. When confronted with the comparison: one that knowingly participated and implemented decisions that caused their own suffering to one that was unknowingly placed in a position of suffering, people are more likely to extend compassion to the person that was innocently affected.

 

Pocky wrote:

Shall I say it one more time in a different way?

 

When discussing the original topic: The suffering of the OW/OM, the possible reason for this is as I've stated above. The OM/OW isn't seen as the victim and isn't seen as the unknowing spouse that suddenly finds him/her amidst lies, infidelity and broken marriages. While the pain and suffering of the OW/OM can be just as real and just as emotionally damaging as that of the spouse, the realization that one was a participant in that suffering tends to cause people to find difficulty in extending compassion and understanding.

[whichwayisup]

i'm not sure anyone here, currently anyway, is advocating for people to have affairs.

 

Nope. When I read this forum, I try to discourage OW to become OW, try to get her to read other posts of what others have gone through, hoping maybe some lightbulb will go off and she'll stop and really think about the situation and all the pain it will be into her life. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

Great post Izzy!

 

I do think that these types of "crushes" that lead to affairs are highly addictive and become borderline obsession. All the posts that I've read all have very similar things about them too - But sadly, most of the time, the end result causes the OW so much pain that could have been avoided if only........ But everybody makes mistakes, problem is, these kinds of mistakes many people get hurt. (Oh and just clarifying too, MM is a HUGE factor in this as well... Don't think I'm leaving him out of the loop.)

[izzybelle]

and unfortunately, much of what goes on here is the equivalent of preaching to the choir. by the time an OW (myself included) has found her way to this forum, the deed and the damage has been done.

 

and yes, there's a lot of encouragement to "not do it" or to "get out now" for many, like quiting any addition, they won't until they're ready.

[kkat]

A common theme around here is that the OW is a bad bad person and a villain who stole from the BS, and has no right to feel pain, and even if they do, too bad, because they brought it on themselves. Bad bad person invoking bad karma and just an all around piece of stupid dirt.

 

On the other hand, the BS is often portrayed as a true victim, and as much so a victim of the OW as of his/her CS.

 

I say that's crap.

 

I will step on the Pain-O-Meter next to the BS anyday.

 

I feel so badly for anyone who has been betrayed and hurt. It's awful. But it's awful for me too.

 

Maybe you have a history and children and a mortgage with your husband, and I bet you are in incredible pain. I am in incredible pain as well.

 

I am sorry for your pain.

 

If you can't be sorry for my pain, then at least don't label me some kind of hypochondriac of the heart who brought it all on myself..

 

I don't call you stupid for not realizing you were married to someone who was lying to you and cheating on you, for staying with him after he cheated on you years ago, for believing he wouldn't do it again, for ignoring all of the signs. I don't call you stupid for wanting him to come home even after he has an affair with someone who, by the way, isn't always just a piece to him.

 

I'm no more stupid than you are. I believed that his marriage was over long before I came into the picture. I believed he loved me. I believed he was doing the right thing in the way he was going about things.

 

So please don't imply that I brought this on myself. I don't think you brought the pain of the affair on yourself. Don't assume I did.

 

Seems to me like the OW and the BS have a mighty lot in common. We got into relationships with men who don't do what they say, who aren't trustworthy, and we have a hard time letting go despite that.

 

That bag of money chased me down the frickin road for years and I finally stopped running from it. Turned out it was a big bag of crap but I didn't steal it.

 

 

Grrrrrr...

[whichwayisup]

I know it's painful, but the situation is preventable too. I know you have PMS (read that at the bottom of yer post, and infact so do I...So I'm treading VERY carefully so I don't offend you - So please don't take offensive to this, it is not directed at you, it's a generalization. )

 

So please don't imply that I brought this on myself. I don't think you brought the pain of the affair on yourself. Don't assume I did.

 

Seems to me like the OW and the BS have a mighty lot in common. We got into relationships with men who don't do what they say, who aren't trustworthy, and we have a hard time letting go despite that.

 

Both OW and MM or OM/MW bring this on together. The BS may be a factor in the final decision for the person to cheat - But she isn't the cause or source of the pain. At the end of the day, everybody feels the pain when the A is finally revealed, so it's a no win situation. Most of all, if children are involved, life as they know it, all the security they've felt is gone...That is what gets me.

 

The OW and BS may have alot in common, but the WIFE is the WIFE, the OW should still not have tried to have a relationship with the MM, and he's the dog for pushing it on the OW - Knowing how to push the buttons... As I mentioned in another reply of mine, the big difference is, the wife has the history with him, life, friends, family, house, wedding, and most of all children...SO with that in mind she has alot more to lose than the OW. OW may really be inlove, but that love is so new and fresh - she doesn't have the MM as much as she may think.

 

I'm sorry for your pain kk, noone is labelling anybody, it's a heated dicussion that raises blood, but please don't feel I'm directing anything at you, I'm not.

 

Life is unfair, nobody is perfect, everybody f***'s up in one way or another - But hopefully we learn from mistakes.

 

I think some OW who have posted here in the past and cop an attitude, are the ones who get comments thrown their way. The smugness and rudenss to people who are trying to help...That is what gets most I think and with that comes some reaction.

[Mr Spock]

Pocky

 

I think you busted my give a damn!!!!!

 

Sigh.

 

It was a generalization, which was funny. To me. Because Mr Spock is damn hilarious.

[CurlyIam]

To some people, the validation of their own feelings is the most important thing. Why, why would anyone acknowledge the sorrow of the OW/OM, when the OW/OM showed no mercy or consideration towards the cheated party while pursuing the affair with the married spouse?

 

That is the selfish attitude. "Me, me, me! Look at me, I am hurting!" Well, honey, you ain't the only one who got burned, but you've decided to participate in a situation that had the potential to wreck everyon's life! Indeed, you're not the only villan, but you are the villan nonetheleast.

 

Actions speak thouthands words.

[newbby]

curly i am,

no ow are asking for sympathy from the wives,

just wondering why the betrayed wives or even non betrayed wives feel the need to constantly attack the ow in their place of support.

i for one didnt have an affair and then rub the wifes face in it, i have never heard of anyone here who did.

sure we made a mistake in our own personal quest for happiness, and yes it was selfish in some ways, maybe not so in others, you dont actually know anyones truly personal situations or reasons, just as we as the ow dont know the true nature of the mm's marriage.

it doesnt mean that we are not suffering though and it doesnt mean we are not entitled to ask for support.

somebody used an analogy of somebody pouring gasoline on themselves and striking a match, well if you actually saw somebody doing that would you stand and watch and say tut tut, its there own fault?

nobody is expecting the betrayed wives to come in here full of support, but coming in here saying "youre wrong..." etc is just not neccessary.

for one, its extremely rare to come across an ow who doesnt already know this!! for another as izzy already pointed out, it is actually way too late!!

because we made a mistake, does not mean we shouldnt be able to come in here and get support from each other, and most certainly does not mean we dont experience any valid pain.

it is not a competition about who has the most pain, and that is still extremely debatable anyway, whatever you may think...you say the wife has background, the ow also has background, most probably not as rosy or cosy as the wifes, therefore to argue about who is suffering the most is just pointless unless you look at the bigger picture of both lives.

[jj003]

Originally posted by newbby

curly i am,

no ow are asking for sympathy from the wives,

just wondering why the betrayed wives or even non betrayed wives feel the need to constantly attack the ow in their place of support.

i for one didnt have an affair and then rub the wifes face in it, i have never heard of anyone here who did.

sure we made a mistake in our own personal quest for happiness, and yes it was selfish in some ways, maybe not so in others, you dont actually know anyones truly personal situations or reasons, just as we as the ow dont know the true nature of the mm's marriage.

it doesnt mean that we are not suffering though and it doesnt mean we are not entitled to ask for support.

somebody used an analogy of somebody pouring gasoline on themselves and striking a match, well if you actually saw somebody doing that would you stand and watch and say tut tut, its there own fault?

nobody is expecting the betrayed wives to come in here full of support, but coming in here saying "youre wrong..." etc is just not neccessary.

for one, its extremely rare to come across an ow who doesnt already know this!! for another as izzy already pointed out, it is actually way too late!!

because we made a mistake, does not mean we shouldnt be able to come in here and get support from each other, and most certainly does not mean we dont experience any valid pain.

it is not a competition about who has the most pain, and that is still extremely debatable anyway, whatever you may think...you say the wife has background, the ow also has background, most probably not as rosy or cosy as the wifes, therefore to argue about who is suffering the most is just pointless unless you look at the bigger picture of both lives.

for some reasons, newbby, I agree with most of what you wrote

some people can see only one side of the story...there is no point to talk in circle.

[CurlyIam]

Originally posted by newbby

curly i am,

no ow are asking for sympathy from the wives,

just wondering why the betrayed wives or even non betrayed wives feel the need to constantly attack the ow in their place of support.

 

Well, I don't know, maybe because the husband had sex, offered intimacy and maybe got emotionally involved with you could have something to do with the wife lashing out at you? It's so easy to just randomly pick other women's men, have fun while it lasts and then split when the situation gets too complicated, while not having the courage to have a clear start with a single man and defend that relationship, come what may, isn't it ?

 

I believe that the gasoline and matching fire are a tad too much of a comparison. Sorry, it's not that dramatic. To make a generalisation, you're not the one who has kids who need to go to school, you're not the one in debt up to your throught for the new house, you're not the one who actually lets herself completely exposed to another person, who totally and completely let another person into their life, by marriage. What's the worst thing that can happen to you? He dumps you. For you, it's just another relationship that ends. Maybe a Earth moving relationship, extraordinary, incredible relationship, but just that. IT's not completely letting that man into your life.

 

As far as I know, typical MM and OW don't even live together, don't spend their vacations together, don't spend eachother's birthdays together or holidays, for that matter. What type of relationship is that? How deep? How profound?

 

No, they are not lashing out at you because they need to point fingers and then feel better about themselves, they do that because affairs ruin COMPLETELY their live. And because you are one of the people who put matches to their home. Maybe not the perfect home, but a home, nonetheless.

 

That's why. You can consider it "feminine hate", "jealousy" or whatever. The truth is, other than the obvious of your scr*wing their man, you're actually doing much worse than that. I know love can blind people into doing horrible things, but then, there's always a price to pay for it. Individually. As far as society goes, who cares how they react? You're not sleeping with public respect in your bed, late at night, but with self respect. And that's what's most important.

[moimeme]

Two people conspire together to deceive another. Perhaps one or the other of the two people is also deceived - big surprise - a person who will lie to their supposed love and life partner will lie to them too. Duh.

 

Bottom line is that if you are the engineer of your own downfall, whining and moaning about the downfall doesn't cut it. Nobody feels bad for the Darwin Award winners. Maybe some folks can manage to muster a little pity for people who are stupid enough to fall for the classic lines and believe in these cheaters who, by definition, are already liars. But to ask for sympathy is too much.

[jj003]

Originally posted by moimeme

Two people conspire together to deceive another. Perhaps one or the other of the two people is also deceived - big surprise - a person who will lie to their supposed love and life partner will lie to them too. Duh.

 

Bottom line is that if you are the engineer of your own downfall, whining and moaning about the downfall doesn't cut it. Nobody feels bad for the Darwin Award winners. Maybe some folks can manage to muster a little pity for people who are stupid enough to fall for the classic lines and believe in these cheaters who, by definition, are already liars. But to ask for sympathy is too much.

I just wonder why you guys fight so hard to keep these cheaters and liars in your lives? and get so angry and upset if they want out?

don't tell me it is because of house payment, car payment and kids to send to school, because all these are not worth keeping a liar and cheater if you have self respect yourself.

And don't say because of emotional investment you made for years? emotional investment in someone who cheat on you? lie to you? broke his vows to you? and very likely, may do it again with some other ow. Do you really expect him to change?

Why get so upset over such a loser? and why fight so hard to keep him?

If you insist on keeping such a cheater and liar in your life, you should also not expect any sympathy from others as well !! You also engineer your downfall...whining and moaning about the downfall doesn't cut it.

One more thing, you got it right when you said " supposed love"

[newbby]

To make a generalisation, you're not the one who has kids who need to go to school, you're not the one in debt up to your throught for the new house

 

how do you know?

[newbby]

I just wonder why you guys fight so hard to keep these cheaters and liars in your lives? and get so angry and upset if they want out?

don't tell me it is because of house payment, car payment and kids to send to school, because all these are not worth keeping a liar and cheater if you have self respect yourself.

And don't say because of emotional investment you made for years? emotional investment in someone who cheat on you? lie to you? broke his vows to you? and very likely, may do it again with some other ow. Do you really expect him to change?

Why get so upset over such a loser? and why fight so hard to keep him?

If you insist on keeping such a cheater and liar in your life, you should also not expect any sympathy from others as well !! You also engineer your downfall...whining and moaning about the downfall doesn't cut it.

One more thing, you got it right when you said " supposed love"

 

exactly, you are no more deserving of sympathy than we are.

[kkat]

As far as I know, typical MM and OW don't even live together, don't spend their vacations together, don't spend eachother's birthdays together or holidays, for that matter. What type of relationship is that? How deep? How profound?

 

Agreed, not typical. But I did live with my MM. We spent vacations together, birthdays, holidays, etc. And that's not what, by the way, made our relationship "deep".

 

Look, obviously there are people who feel the OW got what she deserved, further deserves any pain and heartache she is in as a result, is evil and intended to break up a marriage, but luckily isn't in any real pain or loss since she didn't have a ring on her finger.

 

The posters expressing that viewpoint don't seem open to an alternate viewpoint.

 

For me, I will still consider to care about the pain of any person, OW, BS, or even MM for that matter. I don't think people always make great choices, but I don't think either, at least in the typical situation here, did the OW set out for evil and deserve pain as a result.

 

It's so easy to just randomly pick other women's men, have fun while it lasts and then split when the situation gets too complicated,

 

I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of the majority of the OW situations out there, or posted here. Do you?

[CurlyIam]

Originally posted by jj003

I just wonder why you guys fight so hard to keep these cheaters and liars in your lives? and get so angry and upset if they want out?

don't tell me it is because of house payment, car payment and kids to send to school, because all these are not worth keeping a liar and cheater if you have self respect yourself.

And don't say because of emotional investment you made for years? emotional investment in someone who cheat on you? lie to you? broke his vows to you? and very likely, may do it again with some other ow. Do you really expect him to change?

Why get so upset over such a loser? and why fight so hard to keep him?

If you insist on keeping such a cheater and liar in your life, you should also not expect any sympathy from others as well !! You also engineer your downfall...whining and moaning about the downfall doesn't cut it.

One more thing, you got it right when you said " supposed love"

 

Whom are you reffering to, jj, the OW or the wife? I take it you're post is reffering to the wife, so here's my reply:

 

It's sooo easy to cheat and as I've said I know NO relationship that's perfect. I even dare say that the one thing that prevented some couples to cheat was lack of temptation. NOT every MM or MW decided to cheat, all of a sudden.

 

It's so easy to say: why you want a cheater and a liar? The wife didn't know he is a cheater and a liar, but you, the OM, you do!!! Why do YOU? Why do you settle for second best?

 

Why do wives fight so hard to keep him? That's the typical OM question ! Because he promised his future to his wife, he is in a much higher place that you'd ever suspect with someone else. Because giving in to temptation is easy and because constant loving is hard. Because they both promised to God "till death do you part". Because they share a past, frinds, a life, children and both families. It doesn't get more serious than that.

 

And because a person is more than an affair. An affair does make a person a liar, but not necessarily a cheater. And because the wife, even if trapped in a wracked marriage, usually loves the betraying husband. You can borrow him, but you cannot have him. that's the big risk in accepting the OW's position. Not that many OW do want the husband in the first place.

 

To each, his/her own.

[CurlyIam]

Originally posted by kkat

I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of the majority of the OW situations out there, or posted here. Do you?

 

You're right, it's not. It must be ten times harder to be the OW then, because in a way, if you spend this much time together, he's equally cheating on you with his wife. Which makes me wonder why you accepted this hell in the first place.

[CurlyIam]

Originally posted by newbby

how do you know?

 

Well, most marriages do have that. Most marriages do have children and are busting their arse off for downpayments, because not everybody's daddy is rich enough to offer the newlyweds a house. And then there's sacrifices made for the children, for their private lessons, for their tuition, things that have the possiblity to impact profoundly their lives. With dad out of the picture - one less income, how's the kid/kids gonna pay for his education? and then there's makig compromises, chossing a less expensive school, or no school at all for that matter.

 

And the OW isn't even around to see it, especially if the marriage brakes when the kids are little. IF you don't see it, it doesn't make it less real or painful! As I've said before, for just sex, the consequeces are very dire! And even if it's not your own family, you still have them on your conscience! or should, if you had a conscience, which most people do.

[izzybelle]

while this is off topic, i'll say it anyway.

 

And then there's sacrifices made for the children, for their private lessons, for their tuition, things that have the possiblity to impact profoundly their lives. With dad out of the picture - one less income, how's the kid/kids gonna pay for his education? and then there's makig compromises, chossing a less expensive school, or no school at all for that matter.

 

major assumption here. even if dad leaves for the OW, which as we've all been told rarely happens (although i know a number of cases where it has), you can't assume that his responsibilities, financially and otherwise to his kids just disappears. i know Ws may panic a bit in thinking about raising their kids alone, and the financial hardships that may result. i am a single parent and have NO DOUBT that my kids will still be able to afford to go to the school they want to. we still pay for lessons, we still pay for school trips, mortgages, dr bills, braces, you name it. there is no marriage left, but the kids are still well taken care of. i, for the most part, am an incredibly strong woman when i need to be, and with or without a husband, my kids get what they need. and oddly enough since their dad is remarried, my kids now have 3 incomes supporting them instead of two.

[CurlyIam]

Like you said, you are a strong woman earning her life well. Are you sure the wife is - qualified, strong enough to survive well a wrecked marriage?

[izzybelle]

in some cases, no she's probably not, and without passing judgement i will speculate that perhaps that may be part of the reason the H strays. ok, so i've just made a big assumption.

 

but ... one couple i know that's going through a real mess because of infidelity fits that picture pretty closely. she's (the W) and has been seen by many as a reasonably weak, whiny person who at times can be a real whiny little *****. she's a friend and i like her but she's never been exceptionally strong about anything. the kids are old enough that she could work full time, but she says she didn't want to, she likes having her days to sit around and do as she pleases. all of the above phrases had a lot to do with her H getting involved with a much stronger, much more self-confident woman. and yes, he had in the past talked with her about his concerns, encouraged her to do things to better herself, and she didn't do it, she was completely dependent on him. and i heard that from both of them. no, that doesn't give him an excuse to have an affair. but now, she's on her own since they are separated and trying to figure out what to do, and i've seen a major change in her and so has he. while she whined and wallowed in self-pity for a while, blaming the OW, flaming the OW in public, etc. she's beginning to pick herself up again. and i've heard him comment on the changes he's seen in her, that she's finally doing some of the things that he, for years, had encouraged her to do, that she was more than just his W and the mother of his kids. do they have a chance to fix their marriage? i think now they do, as she becomes stronger i think they may have a chance. he knows he needs to change things to, don't get me wrong, he's torn up about the mess he's made. the question now is that since she's stronger and knows she can make it on her own, will she want HIM back?