His wife texted me asking to meet- what do I do? [Updated 2016-12-2]

[Ms. Faust]

I apologize if this has been discussed already:

 

Mayday, you said you wanted your xMM to be a part of your daughter's life and for her to have a father figure. Are you changing your mind now because the wife is involved? And how would you feel if the xMM decides he wants nothing to do with your daughter? What kind of stipulations do you think you would like to see in place to allow visitation?

[Mayday2016]

I apologize if this has been discussed already:

 

Mayday, you said you wanted your xMM to be a part of your daughter's life and for her to have a father figure. Are you changing your mind now because the wife is involved? And how would you feel if the xMM decides he wants nothing to do with your daughter? What kind of stipulations do you think you would like to see in place to allow visitation?

 

 

I think I'm starting to see complexities I never realized. I've discussed his wife's behavior with my lawyer and my therapist and they're both in agreement that this is not a person that is mentally healthy. My lawyer is of the camp that she is going to make life difficult for my daughter and for me. The baby is still so young it's not really an issue. Ideally, I would have liked to see xMM play a roles in her life however, he's not fighting for one. He's not the one stepping up. I don't want to push him into something where he begrudges baby or treats her ill or passes her off onto someone potentially unstable.

 

As far as visitation baby is nursing. Baby doesn't go longer than 2 hours without wanting to nurse again, even at night. She won't take a bottle. I plan on breastfeeding for 2 years so supervised visits couldn't be very long, if they happened at all right now. Maybe when she's 2 or 3 we can discuss visitation but not right now, she is too reliant upon me and my breasts.

[Maddieandtae]

Unfortunately there is a lot more complexities in this situation that go well beyond the betrayed wife. If all parties who are involved in your daughters life do not get on the same page it is your daughter who will bear the consequences of the complexities that all the adults in her life created for her:(

[noelle303]

I think I'm starting to see complexities I never realized. I've discussed his wife's behavior with my lawyer and my therapist and they're both in agreement that this is not a person that is mentally healthy. My lawyer is of the camp that she is going to make life difficult for my daughter and for me. The baby is still so young it's not really an issue. Ideally, I would have liked to see xMM play a roles in her life however, he's not fighting for one. He's not the one stepping up. I don't want to push him into something where he begrudges baby or treats her ill or passes her off onto someone potentially unstable.

As far as visitation baby is nursing. Baby doesn't go longer than 2 hours without wanting to nurse again, even at night. She won't take a bottle. I plan on breastfeeding for 2 years so supervised visits couldn't be very long, if they happened at all right now. Maybe when she's 2 or 3 we can discuss visitation but not right now, she is too reliant upon me and my breasts.

 

I do agree with you here. I also wanted that visitation be seeked out by him because he truly wanted to be her father, any other reason would be unhealthy for my child.

It was a bitter pill to swallow, accepting thats he didn't want her at the time, but the best thing to do was move on.

 

I just want to point out that if he does seek visitation (which he doesn't seem to do), you breastfeeding won't have much to do with the court's decision. Visitation would most likely be granted, in the case that he does not present as a danger to the baby, and you would be ordered to provide him with pumped breastmilk.

 

At least that is how my attorney explained it to me (I was also exclusively breastfeeding) about how things work in my state.

[Mayday2016]

I do agree with you here. I also wanted that visitation be seeked out by him because he truly wanted to be her father, any other reason would be unhealthy for my child.

It was a bitter pill to swallow, accepting thats he didn't want her at the time, but the best thing to do was move on.

 

I just want to point out that if he does seek visitation (which he doesn't seem to do), you breastfeeding won't have much to do with the court's decision. Visitation would most likely be granted, in the case that he does not present as a danger to the baby, and you would be ordered to provide him with pumped breastmilk.

 

At least that is how my attorney explained it to me (I was also exclusively breastfeeding) about how things work in my state.

 

 

My lawyer said there's no way the courts here would make me pump my milk and give it to him, that if she's nursing, they can't take baby away from me for visits. Maybe our states are different in that respect but my lawyer is actually pushing me to nurse for however long I can.

[anika99]

I think I'm starting to see complexities I never realized. I've discussed his wife's behavior with my lawyer and my therapist and they're both in agreement that this is not a person that is mentally healthy. My lawyer is of the camp that she is going to make life difficult for my daughter and for me. The baby is still so young it's not really an issue. Ideally, I would have liked to see xMM play a roles in her life however, he's not fighting for one. He's not the one stepping up. I don't want to push him into something where he begrudges baby or treats her ill or passes her off onto someone potentially unstable.

 

As far as visitation baby is nursing. Baby doesn't go longer than 2 hours without wanting to nurse again, even at night. She won't take a bottle. I plan on breastfeeding for 2 years so supervised visits couldn't be very long, if they happened at all right now. Maybe when she's 2 or 3 we can discuss visitation but not right now, she is too reliant upon me and my breasts.

 

I haven't seen you post anything about the BW's behaviour that sounds mentally unhealthy to me. She has been way kinder to you then most betrayed spouses in her situation would be. Looking at your social media and coming by your house is pretty normal for someone who has just found out their husband has a child with an OW. Didn't you used to go to her house and have sex with her husband in her driveway? Some might call that behaviour mentally unhealthy. Your therapist isn't doing you any favours by analyzing and diagnosing the behaviour of a woman she doesn't know and feeding into your paranoia about the BW. If the MM wants to have visitation with his daughter it may be supervised at first but eventually he will get to have her on his own, possibly even for entire weekends, and you are not going to be able to dictate his wife's involvement unless you can prove she is a danger to your baby. This fantasy you have of the MM coming and having family time with just you and your baby while he leaves his wife at home is never going to happen as long as he wants to stay married. You need to accept the reality of this situation and make it as easy as you can for your daughter.

[Ms. Faust]

My lawyer said there's no way the courts here would make me pump my milk and give it to him, that if she's nursing, they can't take baby away from me for visits. Maybe our states are different in that respect but my lawyer is actually pushing me to nurse for however long I can.

 

I would clarify with your lawyer if it would cancel visitation completely, or if it would SHORTEN it. As much as your lawyer swears they would not take the baby away because you are breast feeding I also don't see the court outright denying visitation to a parent that is actively seeking it.

[anika99]

My lawyer said there's no way the courts here would make me pump my milk and give it to him, that if she's nursing, they can't take baby away from me for visits. Maybe our states are different in that respect but my lawyer is actually pushing me to nurse for however long I can.

 

Maybe for an infant but I can't see the courts denying the father his rightful time with his daughter for years because the mother wants to nurse a toddler and your efforts to use breastfeeding as an ongoing reason to prevent visitation could be viewed poorly by the courts.

[Ms. Faust]

I take anything about the BW's mental health with a grain of salt because of the sources. The burden is on the OP to prove that the BW is mentally incapacitated if she is going to go that route on denying visitation.

[noelle303]

I take anything about the BW's mental health with a grain of salt because of the sources. The burden is on the OP to prove that the BW is mentally incapacitated if she is going to go that route on denying visitation.

 

Exactly. And, personally, I know you trust your lawyer but I think it is very irresponsible of him to refer to BS's actions as mentally unstable and tell her to "chill". Not when he personally hasn't met her, talked to her or seen any proof that she is harrasing you.

 

He of all people should know that there are always three sides of the story - yours, hers and the truth.

 

If she indeed is unstable and a danger to your child and you contest xMM's visitation based on that, it would have to be determined by an unbiased, court-appointed professional who would directly speak to her, not through your second-hand account.

[wmacbride]

Sounds to me like the lawyer is seeing dollar signs and wants to ramp up the drama and drag this out, which s he exact opposite of what is best for the baby or any of the other children involved in this situation.

 

Trying to get the op to use breastfeeding as a manipulative tactic- the op says he is encouraging her to do so as long as possible so that she can control the length of any visitations- sounds pretty slimy to me.

 

If the father wants visitations, it is not up to the mother to dictate the terms of what that will look like. It's up to both her and the father together, and if they can't come up with something that works, the courts will do it in a way that is best for the baby and not necessarily the parents.

 

I would also caution the op about placing so much emphasis on what her former mm wife has been doing, as this might come off as sounding paranoid. Some looking and commenting on her social media sites that were open to the public, one drive by her home, and a couple of polite requests to meet to discuss moving forward, while maybe ill advised are hardly a sign of mental illness. As for the lawyer and therapist saying she is not mentally healthy? That sounds really weird, as no credible therapist should diagnose someone they have never met as having some sort of mental illness, and a lawyer has even less of a place in doing so. If the above actions are signs of having some sort of mental health issues, then I'd hazard a guess that almost 99% of people have one.

 

All they are doing is causing even more stress on the op, and that is unethical.

[Cloudcuckoo]

I think I'm starting to see complexities I never realized. I've discussed his wife's behavior with my lawyer and my therapist and they're both in agreement that this is not a person that is mentally healthy. My lawyer is of the camp that she is going to make life difficult for my daughter and for me. The baby is still so young it's not really an issue. Ideally, I would have liked to see xMM play a roles in her life however, he's not fighting for one. He's not the one stepping up. I don't want to push him into something where he begrudges baby or treats her ill or passes her off onto someone potentially unstable.

 

As far as visitation baby is nursing. Baby doesn't go longer than 2 hours without wanting to nurse again, even at night. She won't take a bottle. I plan on breastfeeding for 2 years so supervised visits couldn't be very long, if they happened at all right now. Maybe when she's 2 or 3 we can discuss visitation but not right now, she is too reliant upon me and my breasts.

 

I don't understand why this business of your baby's Father's Wife being accused of mental instability keeps cropping up here....

 

NONE of you have any concrete information that she is 'potentially unstable'. Your lawyer has no evidence of mental health issues and you have only ever had the word of a proven liar to go by.

 

To make suggestions that the wife of your child's father is 'a person that is not mentally healthy', without any evidence to substantiate it is both unprofessional and slanderous.

 

Not the sort of people I, and perhaps others, would care to have looking out for their legal and psychological best interests.

 

You have a great deal going on, and an arduous time ahead.

[ChickiePops]

I think I'm starting to see complexities I never realized. I've discussed his wife's behavior with my lawyer and my therapist and they're both in agreement that this is not a person that is mentally healthy. My lawyer is of the camp that she is going to make life difficult for my daughter and for me. The baby is still so young it's not really an issue. Ideally, I would have liked to see xMM play a roles in her life however, he's not fighting for one. He's not the one stepping up. I don't want to push him into something where he begrudges baby or treats her ill or passes her off onto someone potentially unstable.

 

As far as visitation baby is nursing. Baby doesn't go longer than 2 hours without wanting to nurse again, even at night. She won't take a bottle. I plan on breastfeeding for 2 years so supervised visits couldn't be very long, if they happened at all right now. Maybe when she's 2 or 3 we can discuss visitation but not right now, she is too reliant upon me and my breasts.

 

No, he is not the one stepping up and fighting for what you claim to want. She is. And in exchange you're accusing her of being crazy.

 

I think that if you were truly honest with yourself, the real reason would be that you're still angry and hurt that he didnt leave her for you.

[Mayday2016]

No, he is not the one stepping up and fighting for what you claim to want. She is. And in exchange you're accusing her of being crazy.

 

I think that if you were truly honest with yourself, the real reason would be that you're still angry and hurt that he didnt leave her for you.

 

That was never a concrete fantasy of mine. I never expected, intended him to leave his marriage. I just wanted him to be something he wasn't.

 

The fact is he has requested NO visitation. Right now he has expressed ZERO desire to be involved with baby. None. So none of this is concerning. What is wife does or doesn't do isn't really a concern right now for me, neither am I sweating unsupervised visits right now because HE HAS NOT said he even wants to see the baby. He just wants to pay his support, that's it.

[Sub]

Mayday, it's a really trying time for you right now. It's understandable if it's a little difficult to keep things straight, manage all the feelings and such. But there are some contradictions here that will hopefully fade to the background for you. The W's behavior is enough of a concern to you that you talk to your therapist about it and he/she (unfortunately) has an opinion on her mental state. You're right in that it shouldn't be a concern. But the evidence suggests that it may, and only you can answer whether it's strictly connected to the CS process or because you want to know there was some truth to what the MM was telling you.

[ChickiePops]

That was never a concrete fantasy of mine. I never expected, intended him to leave his marriage. I just wanted him to be something he wasn't.

 

The fact is he has requested NO visitation. Right now he has expressed ZERO desire to be involved with baby. None. So none of this is concerning. What is wife does or doesn't do isn't really a concern right now for me, neither am I sweating unsupervised visits right now because HE HAS NOT said he even wants to see the baby. He just wants to pay his support, that's it.

 

You keep saying his wife is no concern of yours but you're still talking badly about her and trying to convince everyone she is crazy even though she's been on your side the whole time despite the fact that you slept with her husband. She hasn't done anything to you..you're the one who's hurt her (along with her husband of course) and she is still being kind to you for the sake of your daughter. That says a lot about her character, and what is says is good.

 

From what it sounds like, he actually didn't want to pay support. It sounds like she is the one who's been pushing for it.

 

You should really try to let go of your anger towards this woman and refocus it on the person who really deserves it - the MM. The anger isn't healthy for you and it's not healthy for your children.

 

I wouldn't wish what you're going through on anyone..I can't even imagine how awful it all is. But it's not his wife's fault. She didn't choose this but she's dealing with the fallout as much as you are. She's picking up the pieces as much as you are. She's hurting as much as you are. She's caring for her daughter, who's father is a deadbeat cheating a-hole, just like you are. And she's doing the best she can with a messed up situation, just like you are.

[AlwaysGrowing]

That was never a concrete fantasy of mine. I never expected, intended him to leave his marriage. I just wanted him to be something he wasn't.

 

The fact is he has requested NO visitation. Right now he has expressed ZERO desire to be involved with baby. None. So none of this is concerning. What is wife does or doesn't do isn't really a concern right now for me, neither am I sweating unsupervised visits right now because HE HAS NOT said he even wants to see the baby. He just wants to pay his support, that's it.

 

 

What exactly did you expect?

 

What his wishes are legally are between his wife and lawyer.

 

I would caution you on expecting everything that your lawyer says you can get. Heck, you still haven't received a dime from your own husband and father of your other children.

 

 

From the outside it looks like your lawyer is trying to get this XMM to pay for everything and for everyone.

[noelle303]

That was never a concrete fantasy of mine. I never expected, intended him to leave his marriage. I just wanted him to be something he wasn't.

 

The fact is he has requested NO visitation. Right now he has expressed ZERO desire to be involved with baby. None. So none of this is concerning. What is wife does or doesn't do isn't really a concern right now for me, neither am I sweating unsupervised visits right now because HE HAS NOT said he even wants to see the baby. He just wants to pay his support, that's it.

 

While it may be a mute point since he did NOT seek out visitation, I wanted to ask you one thing.

 

You said you wanted for your daughter to have a relationship with her father but you also do not want her to go to him for visits since you will be breastfeeding until 2 or 3.

 

How exactly did you envision this relationship? Him visiting her at your house? Because that is not how a parental relationship is formed. He would need some alone time with her and to independently care and bond with her, otherwise he might as well be a distant cousin or a neighbour.

[rainbowsandkittens]

Honestly, Mayday, I agree with the posters who say that the BS sounds like she's being very nice about this. Imagine you found out that your husband was not only cheating but that he had a child you didn't know about! I think most people would lose it. Her emails have been kind and thoughtful. I think most OW would be happy to get emails like that rather than nastygrams and being called names (which I'm sure happens more often than not.)

 

I really think you need to be honest with yourself about why this woman bothers you and what you expected from him. The family you hoped would come from it- won't. And even though you say that you know this, it doesn't seem like you do. You can't blame him for not wanting to be a father to your daughter bc he told you from the beginning that he didn't want to be. It's like my favorite line from Singles when Matt Dillon tells Bridget Fonda he's seeing other people and she launches into a monologue about how they have a really great connection and she knows they're in love and it starts with her saying, "You don't fool me." And after listening to the whole thing he says, "I could not be fooling you less." He's not fooling you. It sucks that possibly the only thing he's been honest about is this- but it sure seems that way.

 

I think your best bet of him ever having a relationship with your daughter, if that's truly all you want, is finding a way to peacefully coexist with his wife. Because she's the one that will lead you to him being a father to your daughter. The days of you dealing with him- or at least him directly- seem to be over. I think you should tell your lawyer to just settle the payments and be done with it. That way you can start actually moving on.

[rainbowsandkittens]

How exactly did you envision this relationship? Him visiting her at your house?

 

That was the impression I got- especially with the insistence on not being away from the baby for more than 2 hours. I would also guess that OP would want it to only be exMM visiting and not his wife. Not sure if that's even possible but I would bet that neither he nor his wife would be ok with that.

[Joie]

I honestly don't think your counselor or your lawyer are doing you a whole lot of favors. You are paying them to be "yes, men". I am not trying to hurt your feelings but you actually come out as one of the villains in this love triangle not the BS. It sounds like he is trying to do the right thing and pay you child support but because you hope that you may still "get him" by using your baby you are unwilling to settle this as quickly as possible.

 

Honestly, I bet their lawyer is jumping up and down to take the visitation issue to trial. You are not the first person to come up with the idea that the other woman is "crazy" and therefore unfit to be around children. Unless she has a criminal record, illegal drug use or a founded child abuse report there is no reason she can't be around her step child. Additionally, you are not the first person to come up with the I am going to breastfeed for the next dozen years. I am not discouraging you to stop BF. In fact I extended breastfeed all my children and think it is very important. But your position is so obviously a ploy to force the MM to interact with you. It is unrealistic to think you are going to limit a father's visitation to 2 hour incriminates so that you can BF indefinitely. If you truly cared about breastfeeding and the child having a relationship with her father you would be able to find a way to make both work. Finally, I would be surprise if his lawyer doesn't wants to impute income onto you. It sounds like you are physically able to work and he could argue you don't get to be a stay at home mom on the eMM's dime.

 

Since they are not raising any of these issues it sounds like all they really want is to financial support the child and then never see you again. I understand that it hurts but I think the picture is clear. And having people 'nod' at you in support of your wishes when they aren't realistic is good for you or the baby.

 

If he doesn't want visitation please count yourself lucky. Take the amount set by the child support guidelines. Get a job. Get yourself divorce. And start building a life for yourself.

 

Best of Luck you.

[serial muse]

As far as visitation baby is nursing. Baby doesn't go longer than 2 hours without wanting to nurse again, even at night. She won't take a bottle. I plan on breastfeeding for 2 years so supervised visits couldn't be very long, if they happened at all right now. Maybe when she's 2 or 3 we can discuss visitation but not right now, she is too reliant upon me and my breasts.

 

But...ok, I don't see how this will wash. Breastfeeding doesn't stay every couple of hours that whole time. Sometime in the next few months you're going to start introducing soft then solid foods, etc. - and before too long, your baby will be well able to go for a much longer period of time without nursing.

 

It is odd to me that your lawyer would encourage you in this direction; if he's done this sort of litigation before, I'd think he would know that it doesn't make sense.

 

May, I was going to say what Ms. Faust said, up above - your former MM has made it clear he's not really interested in his older daughter, hasn't he? So it doesn't seem likely that he's staying away for fear of forming a bond.

 

If you want him to not have visitation, that's one thing. But it does start to sound like you're changing your mind based on the fact that you just don't want his wife around. But she's part of this equation. And she doesn't sound mentally ill from anything you've said here. It's pretty unethical for your therapist to tell you that a person she hasn't treated is mentally ill, not to mention your lawyer. I know you're sleep-deprived and have a lot on your plate, and I commend you for managing it all - but I do wonder whether at this point you're just hearing what you want to hear from these people on this front.

 

Seems to me that the simplest answer to what's going on here is that the former MM just isn't interested in the baby or in another emotional responsibility and would hide from it all if he could (and tried to), while his wife is intent on tackling things head-on, because she's concerned about how this complicated situation is going to affect her marriage and her child and just wants everything settled already.

[getsmartie]

I also agree what the others have recently said. How exactly did you want him to have visitation while you are still breast feeding? He would have to come to your home and it certainly sounds like you may want more from him other than him just getting to know daughter based on what you've previously written.

 

Also I don't see his wife behaving with any instability. On the contrary, she is reacting much better than other BS yet you keep throwing out how mentally unstable she is.

 

I feel for you because of your circumstances however when you play with fire well you know what can happen.

 

I've never been involved with a MM and frankly have no desire for that. I have been a BS however and I can tell you that this woman is behaving quite fine based on the pain of her cheating husband has caused. Put yourself in her shoes.

[georgia girl]

Mayday,

 

Just my observations, but some of the advice from the attorney doesn't exactly wash with me. He my be hoping for and pushing for MM to pay his fees as you really don't have the means right now, but there's no reason why MM or his attorney would agree to that. You and he were unmarried (actually married to others) and came to court to litigate an issue of parentage with you as the petitioner and he as the respondent. I can't see where there would be some sort of judgment that due to MM's neglect or willful misconduct that the matter came to the court, putting you as the petitioner in an unreasonable position of having to pay legal fees. Why he's suggesting it is beyond me, but I could be missing some detail here.

 

As for the issue of visitation, MM is not requesting it so its not a legal issue for the court (or magistrate) to decide. However, if the matter did come before the court, the natural parent has a natural, inherent right to his/her child in a manner that won't harm the child. What does that mean? It likely means that the judge would order you to provide him visitation and that you make whatever arrangements for feeding as appropriate, including providing breast milk if you as the custodial parent insist on it. I also can't see - or wonder why the attorney would even give you advice to suggest - that his visitation would be so severely limited. As an infant, he may not order overnights, but he may also very well do so. The fact of the matter before the court (if he were petitioning for custody or visitation) is that one natural parent who is married, has a home and another toddler/child in the home who is cared for without state intervention is requesting visitation, the judge would have no reason to deny it. As far as your dispute against the wife would be concerned, you would have to prove to the court that she's unstable and what you've shared with us wouldn't even be admissible at this point, let alone proof of inability to care for the child. That alone wouldn't cause the judge to deny visitation with the father and spouse, by the way. The father would just have to prove to the court that he would protect the child while in his custody.

 

The final issue is the amount of child support. That is formulaic. I'm not sure what your attorney is looking for but even if its not stipulated beforehand, one takes the tax returns, calculates child support and its over. It's not a negotiating tactic. He probably wants to begin paying now because he will be required to pay back to the date of filing and it would be a large sum of money to come up with at once. As for paying for college, no it's not a legal right for an adult child (which a child becomes at age 18) to require a parent to pay for college. We actually had a case in my state where the child who was estranged from her married parents tried to sue them to pay for college. They had disagreed with her choice of college and wouldn't pay. They won, but the judge admonished all for their behaviors. So, I would NOT expect a college fund and I would expect support to end at age 18.

 

Mayday, I have to agree with the others. I think a part of your heart still wants him back and you are hoping against hope that this legal action will provide you and he an opportunity to be alone with your daughter and bond as a family. For your own sake, I genuinely don't think that's going to happen and that is where I take issue with your therapist. He/she should be working with you to take actionable steps to heal and begin building a future for yourself and your children.

 

While this post may seem harsh, I actually intended it to be matter of fact so that you can move on. You largely won here. When you posted about this initially, you wanted three things: 1) for him to have a relationship with his daughter; 2) for him to pay child support and 3) for his wife to not have interaction with your daughter. In all honesty, you could never get all three. If they stay together, she is the stepparent and as long as he has natural rights to his child, he can bring anyone around his child as he pleases as long as he keeps the child safe. So, you weren't going to get 1 and 3. The best you could have hoped for is 1 and 2 or 2 and 3. You got 2 and 3. You will be able to provide for your baby and you won't need to deal with MM's wife, if you don't want to. But as others have said, if you do want him to have a relationship with her, then you're going to have to give up on 3 and work with her - she's the only one reaching out - and through her he will have that relationship.

 

But you won, Mayday. You will have the support for your little girl. Now, focus on pushing through the divorce and I hope, finding some sort of employment or training to become independent.

[georgia girl]

Forgot to add that I do think the magistrate will order MM to pay for the paternity testing. That's pretty standard. If he was not the natural father, you would be required to pay for it. But as it's obvious he is the natural father, he will likely pay for it. The state (through the court) is the payer of last resort. If someone else has the means and its through their action that the testing is ordered, they typically have to pay.