His wife texted me asking to meet- what do I do? [Updated 2016-12-2]

[Lady Hamilton]

He set the rules. My lawyer suggested a y or a library 3x a week for 1 hr visits. His camp said no. I'm not throwing myself on my own sword here. I'm not preventing HIM, I'm preventing his wife, that both he and his lawyer admitted to being highly unstable and mentally unwell. We even could have met for visitation at a conference room at the lawyers offices, his wife said no because she wasn't allowed to be there. She agreed to the facility so he agreed. As far as her having access to visitation she does not have any step parent rights as of now, she has never been in baby's life or proven herself to play a vital role in baby's life. Baby is 5 months old and Dad has actively chosen to postpone any visitation until July because of his "busy" schedule. That wasn't my doing. It was the first week of June we went to court and he said he cannot see the baby until at least mid July because he has so much to do on sabbatical. He has not officially met baby and that is not because I kept him from her, I am just now exercising my rights as her mom to put safe measures in place preventing his wife (that their own lawyer admitted to being insane) from accessing to my baby.

 

I highly doubt a lawyer would admit his own client to be unfit and mentally unwell. If he did, then the whole proceeding could be totally wiped out and start all over again, for a variety of reasons not the least of which being he made disparaging remarks about his client using private medical information he is not supposed to share.

 

And she hasn't been a part of the baby's life because you have prevented it. If she lawyers up and says as much, then shows what even you agree to be efforts to see the child, then you will have made a hard time for yourself in using the "she's not a factor in the baby's life" argument. You can't say she has no presence in the baby's life as a negative against her when her non-presence is not by her absence but by your refusal to her requests.

 

As far as stepparent rights, she doesn't need them... She has what's called "marital right and privledge" which basically forbids the law or an outside party to process a litigation that requires they be separated on the judgment of legal matters and/or fundamental rights and responsibilities of their partner. In lay mans terms, it means a judge can't make a finding that causes marital disruption and division on spouses. Granting significant rights, financial obligation, and visitation of a husband to a child while barring their wife is a clear violation of that according to multiple years of legal president.

 

In short, if he trusts her to care for their child and she is fit to care for their child and the court sees no reason to dispute that, she can invoke her marital right and insert herself into the situation and has the legal right and protection to do so. Especially since visitation isn't so much about person X being with the child but their household having time with the child.

 

And saying 3x a week for an hour to meet in a conference room? Come on now... That's not visitation. To give him that and then hold out your hand for support and complain when you get less than you want is something that clearly needs to be called on by him. That's not a visitation concession, that's a hoop to jump through. You can't complain he doesn't see the child and won't drop everything to be there when he's driving to sit in a sterile conference room for an hour with his child. That's not quality time in terms of environment and quantity of time.

 

At some point, the child has to come first here. You can't lay down an obstacle course for him to run through for custody with only a promise of the absolute barest of minimums for a prize, then complain when he doesn't eagerly hand you a huge check and delight in the mere 3 hours a week you've extended to just him at a place of your choosing. Especially since now he only gets an hour a week, and you're grumping about how awful it is because the baby doesn't know her father. Of course she doesn't... She hasn't met him yet even though they've made efforts to meet which you refused, and now he has an hour a week to squeeze in being a father. It effectively makes her a second-class child in the family unit. Even the best father in the world can't overcome that.

 

And to rather your child go to a facility to meet her father that was designed for felons and addicts to visit their kids under supervision and she's handed off via a third party like a prisoner transfer than to work out an alternate plan that protects an infant from that kind of environment... I think it says a lot about how far the spite had gotten in this situation. It seemsnlikenthrngoal here isn't smooth transitions and adjustments, but as much disruption as possible to make visitation as jarring and impossible as it can be.

 

To be honest, I'm not surprised it'll take him a month to meet for visitation. The conditions are so strict and inflexible, I think any of us would have a hard time balancing time from work, family, an ill spouse, and other kids to meet it. If our custody changed to this tomorrow, we'd have a hard time making it work without time to make new arraignments for everything else. I don't think necessarily that not being able to jump here exactly when you say to jump in the style of which you've required him to jump is his fault.

 

I think honestly at this point you guys are lucky the mediator hasn't kicked this before a judge and called mediation a failure. Or his lawyer hasn't done so. This would go super differently if it was in front of a judge. Honestly, from your descriptions it sounds like you just want to get one over on him. Visitation in your presence on your terms with only him and not his wife... I don't blame her for being suspicious.

 

I think you've got to really sit down here and examine how best to go about this without causing a situation ripe for scarring on the child. Doing this for 18 years isn't sustainable. Doing it for 18 months isn't sustainable. Giving an inch and complaining when you're not repaid with a mile isn't realistic and it is courting long term disaster. While you may not have chosen to get pregnant, you knew that having a baby with a guy married to somebody else who was unstable may have meant dividing time and custody as you're doing now. It's time to put all the crap aside now and focus on making this as easy as possible for the baby.

[stillafool]

He set the rules. My lawyer suggested a y or a library 3x a week for 1 hr visits. His camp said no. I'm not throwing myself on my own sword here. I'm not preventing HIM, I'm preventing his wife, that both he and his lawyer admitted to being highly unstable and mentally unwell. We even could have met for visitation at a conference room at the lawyers offices, his wife said no because she wasn't allowed to be there. She agreed to the facility so he agreed. As far as her having access to visitation she does not have any step parent rights as of now, she has never been in baby's life or proven herself to play a vital role in baby's life. Baby is 5 months old and Dad has actively chosen to postpone any visitation until July because of his "busy" schedule. That wasn't my doing. It was the first week of June we went to court and he said he cannot see the baby until at least mid July because he has so much to do on sabbatical. He has not officially met baby and that is not because I kept him from her, I am just now exercising my rights as her mom to put safe measures in place preventing his wife (that their own lawyer admitted to being insane) from accessing to my baby.

 

I thought he held the baby for a moment when you first had her. Is this true? This man really wants nothing to do with the baby he is just doing what he has to do. You really can't blame him for trying to keep his wife happy considering what he has put her through, but I wouldn't depend on him always showing up for visitation. Without her nudging him he would just walk off into the sunset and forget the whole thing. This is so sad for your little baby girl.

[Cloudcuckoo]

I highly doubt a lawyer would admit his own client to be unfit and mentally unwell. If he did, then the whole proceeding could be totally wiped out and start all over again, for a variety of reasons not the least of which being he made disparaging remarks about his client using private medical information he is not supposed to share.

 

And she hasn't been a part of the baby's life because you have prevented it. If she lawyers up and says as much, then shows what even you agree to be efforts to see the child, then you will have made a hard time for yourself in using the "she's not a factor in the baby's life" argument. You can't say she has no presence in the baby's life as a negative against her when her non-presence is not by her absence but by your refusal to her requests.

 

As far as stepparent rights, she doesn't need them... She has what's called "marital right and privledge" which basically forbids the law or an outside party to process a litigation that requires they be separated on the judgment of legal matters and/or fundamental rights and responsibilities of their partner. In lay mans terms, it means a judge can't make a finding that causes marital disruption and division on spouses. Granting significant rights, financial obligation, and visitation of a husband to a child while barring their wife is a clear violation of that according to multiple years of legal president.

 

In short, if he trusts her to care for their child and she is fit to care for their child and the court sees no reason to dispute that, she can invoke her marital right and insert herself into the situation and has the legal right and protection to do so. Especially since visitation isn't so much about person X being with the child but their household having time with the child.

 

And saying 3x a week for an hour to meet in a conference room? Come on now... That's not visitation. To give him that and then hold out your hand for support and complain when you get less than you want is something that clearly needs to be called on by him. That's not a visitation concession, that's a hoop to jump through. You can't complain he doesn't see the child and won't drop everything to be there when he's driving to sit in a sterile conference room for an hour with his child. That's not quality time in terms of environment and quantity of time.

 

At some point, the child has to come first here. You can't lay down an obstacle course for him to run through for custody with only a promise of the absolute barest of minimums for a prize, then complain when he doesn't eagerly hand you a huge check and delight in the mere 3 hours a week you've extended to just him at a place of your choosing. Especially since now he only gets an hour a week, and you're grumping about how awful it is because the baby doesn't know her father. Of course she doesn't... She hasn't met him yet even though they've made efforts to meet which you refused, and now he has an hour a week to squeeze in being a father. It effectively makes her a second-class child in the family unit. Even the best father in the world can't overcome that.

 

And to rather your child go to a facility to meet her father that was designed for felons and addicts to visit their kids under supervision and she's handed off via a third party like a prisoner transfer than to work out an alternate plan that protects an infant from that kind of environment... I think it says a lot about how far the spite had gotten in this situation. It seemsnlikenthrngoal here isn't smooth transitions and adjustments, but as much disruption as possible to make visitation as jarring and impossible as it can be.

 

To be honest, I'm not surprised it'll take him a month to meet for visitation. The conditions are so strict and inflexible, I think any of us would have a hard time balancing time from work, family, an ill spouse, and other kids to meet it. If our custody changed to this tomorrow, we'd have a hard time making it work without time to make new arraignments for everything else. I don't think necessarily that not being able to jump here exactly when you say to jump in the style of which you've required him to jump is his fault.

 

I think honestly at this point you guys are lucky the mediator hasn't kicked this before a judge and called mediation a failure. Or his lawyer hasn't done so. This would go super differently if it was in front of a judge. Honestly, from your descriptions it sounds like you just want to get one over on him. Visitation in your presence on your terms with only him and not his wife... I don't blame her for being suspicious.

 

I think you've got to really sit down here and examine how best to go about this without causing a situation ripe for scarring on the child. Doing this for 18 years isn't sustainable. Doing it for 18 months isn't sustainable. Giving an inch and complaining when you're not repaid with a mile isn't realistic and it is courting long term disaster. While you may not have chosen to get pregnant, you knew that having a baby with a guy married to somebody else who was unstable may have meant dividing time and custody as you're doing now. It's time to put all the crap aside now and focus on making this as easy as possible for the baby.

 

Exemplary Lady Hamilton, and the reason one should probably not consider that a baby will force the married man to make happy families with his other woman while they wave goodbye to the gracefully exiting wife.......??

 

This is a prime example of the mess it can make of a child's life.

 

My opinion might appear controversial, but with so many women unable to fulfill the desire to be a Mother, I wonder at those fortunate enough to be able to do so who fail to put that blessing above all else and others.

[noelle303]

Wow, the whole thing with how you set up the visitation sounds crazy and if you ask me, completely traumatizing to a child. It's such an unnatural environement that of course she will cry and be upset and there is no way her and her father can form a lasting bond based on these conditions.

 

I'm having trouble believing that this whole thing could not have been settled in a simpler way. Can't a family member of yours take the baby to a park, hand her off to her father and have him spend a few hours with her?

 

I mean, this is not a sustainable agreement. Are you just thinking of NEVER letting the wife anywhere near the child?

[Mayday2016]

Wow, the whole thing with how you set up the visitation sounds crazy and if you ask me, completely traumatizing to a child. It's such an unnatural environement that of course she will cry and be upset and there is no way her and her father can form a lasting bond based on these conditions.

 

I'm having trouble believing that this whole thing could not have been settled in a simpler way. Can't a family member of yours take the baby to a park, hand her off to her father and have him spend a few hours with her?

 

I mean, this is not a sustainable agreement. Are you just thinking of NEVER letting the wife anywhere near the child?

 

This was HIS camp's arrangement. We have mutual friends and he declined to having that friend be a go between. His wife doesn't want me within a 10 mile radius of him if she isn't there. She was also trying to have their lawyer order me to move out of my apartment he had me get next to the college. His wife chose the facility. Even their own lawyer was annoyed at the obstacles. XMM however chose the once a week. I have to drive baby the 3 hr round trip so he can see baby at this place starting next month.

 

Mind everyone here I have been raising baby ALONE since birth, with no $ until the court ordered him to.

[noelle303]

This was HIS camp's arrangement. We have mutual friends and he declined to having that friend be a go between. His wife doesn't want me within a 10 mile radius of him if she isn't there. She was also trying to have their lawyer order me to move out of my apartment he had me get next to the college. His wife chose the facility. Even their own lawyer was annoyed at the obstacles. XMM however chose the once a week. I have to drive baby the 3 hr round trip so he can see baby at this place starting next month.

 

Mind everyone here I have been raising baby ALONE since birth, with no $ until the court ordered him to.

 

I understand. I've been through it as well for 5 years. No physical nor financial support from the father. That is why I feel comfortable saying this: you really need to let it go. Focus on the potential future relationship your baby and her father CAN have if only the adults in the situation can put all their hurt and pride behind.

 

I'm not blaming you, I get it that the wife is also making things very difficult, however in my opinion, you should not have agreed to these conditions and suggested a third party (a friend or family member) to preform an exchange of the child in a specifically set time in a normal location - park, playground, so he can spend time alone with her and care for her. Make it a final offer - take it or leave it and go to court.

 

Are you afraid that if the case comes to court you won't be able to control whether his wife is there or not?

[imperfectangel]

I really don't know how you can cope with this. He seems to be getting everything his own way! Surely it's better for a baby to not spend 3 hours on the road?!

 

Also I wouldn't be too sure about you not seeing him face to face again. This is a lifetime deal. When baby is older and gets married herself I'm assuming she will want both her parents there along with other events. His wife irritates me. They can't control everything, maybe one day they'll see that for themselves

[whatatangledweb]

Did MM end up paying your lawyer's fees? Just for the record, bipolar is not insane. Huge differences between the two.

[Sub]

He seems to be getting everything his own way!

 

I'm curious about this, too. His lawyer apparently doesn't even agree with his client or his W....the W is "insane"....yet the MM and his W got the upper hand in most of it. Something doesn't add up, IMO.

[imperfectangel]

To be fair the wife shouldn't be involved yet. MM needs to get to know his baby then the w can be slowly introduced. In the long they will ALL be involved in each other's lives as well as OP and MM being able to talk themselves. His w cannot stop that for the next 20 + years. As parents they will need to talk. It isn't healthy for a mum and dad not to talk to each other directly about their child. His w has to accept that

[noelle303]

I'm curious about this, too. His lawyer apparently doesn't even agree with his client or his W....the W is "insane"....yet the MM and his W got the upper hand in most of it. Something doesn't add up, IMO.

 

It's mediation, the OP did not have to agree to the terms presented, but if they don't manage to settle things in mediation, the next step is court.

[wmacbride]

Something doesn't add up Why is the op being given details about her ex-mm wife's specific health diagnosis? That is confidential medical information.

 

Either there is extremely unprofessional actions by the lawyer or something else is going on.

[stillafool]

To be fair the wife shouldn't be involved yet. MM needs to get to know his baby then the w can be slowly introduced. In the long they will ALL be involved in each other's lives as well as OP and MM being able to talk themselves. His w cannot stop that for the next 20 + years. As parents they will need to talk. It isn't healthy for a mum and dad not to talk to each other directly about their child. His w has to accept that

 

OP and MM could have communicated with each other about the child in front of his wife. What is there to hide in the conversation that the wife can't hear or shouldn't be privy to? OP doesn't want to communicate with the wife present and MM doesn't agree to that. I'm sure when the child gets older she really won't need anyone to help her communicate with her father. Hopefully he will still stick around and she will have developed a close relationship with him as well as her half sister.

[Hopefulandinlove]

Did his lawyers set a timetable up for how long these facility visits will happen? Are they thinking months or years?

[ChickiePops]

To be fair the wife shouldn't be involved yet. MM needs to get to know his baby then the w can be slowly introduced. In the long they will ALL be involved in each other's lives as well as OP and MM being able to talk themselves. His w cannot stop that for the next 20 + years. As parents they will need to talk. It isn't healthy for a mum and dad not to talk to each other directly about their child. His w has to accept that

 

His wife is this childs' stepmother. She will be involved in her life presumably for the same amount of time the MM will. She's also the one who has been pushing her husband to take action from the moment she found out about her..MM has been less than enthusiastic about the baby.

 

MM is the one who used to come over and bang OP in the same room as the baby without even so much as a glance in his daughter's direction. MM is the one who wanted BJs in the car when OP was 8 months pregnant. MM and OP are the ones who blew everyone's lives up by having an affair and a baby in the first place.

 

His wife has been incredibly reasonable about everything considering the fact that she's only recently discovered that her husband fathered a child with another woman..she deserves to be cut a whole bunch of slack.

[Lady Hamilton]

This was HIS camp's arrangement. We have mutual friends and he declined to having that friend be a go between. His wife doesn't want me within a 10 mile radius of him if she isn't there. She was also trying to have their lawyer order me to move out of my apartment he had me get next to the college. His wife chose the facility. Even their own lawyer was annoyed at the obstacles. XMM however chose the once a week. I have to drive baby the 3 hr round trip so he can see baby at this place starting next month.

 

Mind everyone here I have been raising baby ALONE since birth, with no $ until the court ordered him to.

 

Well, of course she doesn't want you near her husband without her being there. That is no different than you not wanting the baby around him without you around, or with her around. You're both doing the same thing, only she's leveraging her husband and you're leveraging the baby.

 

Seeing if you can be ordered out of an apartment he got for you also makes sense... He got you there and moved you there, and securing an apartment for somebody carries with it certain liabilities. They both have a right to tell you to let him off the hook for it or move. It's the risk you run when you build a love eat using somebody else's marital funds or name.

 

And why would the lawyer be annoyed? Or if he was, why would he convey it to the person he's supposed to be litigating against? That makes no sense at all. He should be thrilled as I imagine you're clear into 5-digit lawyer fees at this point. He has no reason to be annoyed, and zero business sharing it with you. If even a fraction of that is true, you should be counting your blessings their lawyer sucks... A halfway decent lawyer would have made short work of you and the whole situation as, despite the insistence you're a victim here, the reality is quite different. You're both mutually combating over this issue and have both wandered from the path of respect and kids first.

 

You can't complain you're raising the baby alone at this point. Both he and his wife have reached out to set up visitation. You refuse her because you will only talk to him, refused him unless the lawyer calls or he uses an app, complained about where it's happening and how far it is, complained an hour with him was too much and to hard on the baby... There are efforts being made here, you're just not receptive to them. That's not his fault... He just isn't aware, willing, and/or able to adhere to the visitation you only will agree to on the third full moon of the week closest to the celestial Equinox that his wife is on the dark side of Mars.

 

And the finances is also something you can't complain about as you got your support and a plan for his arrears payments for what is owed up to now. You are getting your support.

 

As far as the distance to the facility... If you didn't like it, you should have refused. It's mediation, you agree to what to do. If he suggested that location and now that's where you're going, that's because it's what you agreed to. Nobody forces anything at mediation... That's the whole point.

 

Just... A lot of this isn't adding up. Even if he isn't interested in the child, which I'm not sure I buy (you said he never met the child, but that the child was there for when he wanted booty calls?), his stepmother is working to integrate the child into the household. That's not insane behavior... That's very rational behavior. This child will be part her responsibility for possibly the rest of her life. You slapping the hand away because it's not the hand you want isn't abandonment.

[wmacbride]

This was HIS camp's arrangement. We have mutual friends and he declined to having that friend be a go between. His wife doesn't want me within a 10 mile radius of him if she isn't there. She was also trying to have their lawyer order me to move out of my apartment he had me get next to the college. His wife chose the facility. Even their own lawyer was annoyed at the obstacles. XMM however chose the once a week. I have to drive baby the 3 hr round trip so he can see baby at this place starting next month.

 

Mind everyone here I have been raising baby ALONE since birth, with no $ until the court ordered him to.

 

If this is true, then you have bitten of your nose to spite your face.

 

in other words, if what you say about only being interested in mm in terms of making sure he sees his child, you have polarized the one person who could have been your greatest ally...ironically, that is his wife.

 

From everything you have said up until now, his wife is the one most interested in having him and his child create a family. She was the one trying to make connections and allow that to happen. He would have preferred that you disappear.

[wmacbride]

If this is true, then you have bitten of your nose to spite your face.

 

in other words, if what you say about only being interested in mm in terms of making sure he sees his child, you have polarized the one person who could have been your greatest ally...ironically, that is his wife.

 

From everything you have said up until now, his wife is the one most interested in having him and his child create a family. She was the one trying to make connections and allow that to happen. He would have preferred that you disappear.

 

Further to this, though it may be very panful and hard to swallow, allowing her to build those connections will stand your child in good stead. As your child grows,, they will have the love and support of two families.

 

Also, consider your life down the road. A few from now, you may well have moved on to someone new, and you will welcome having some time to yourself when your toddler is with her other family.

 

This sort of thing happens many times when marriages end and new families form, and I suspect that if he had left his wife for you, you would be the one pushing for there to be contact between you and his children.

 

This is going to come back and bite someone it the rear, and that someone is your baby.

[AlwaysGrowing]

A sone might expect, the tale is being filtered. Their version might be very different. which one is the truth? Someone in the middle.

 

 

I don't know how close to the middle it will fall....there are lots of contradictions in the OP overall posts.

 

OP said she moved in with family, then says the Wife was trying to get her to move out of the apartment. Two different stories from just one side of it.

 

Early on in this thread, OP clearly stated that she told the XMM to use email or a lawyer to contact her...then complains when the other side chooses to use a lawyer for all communication.

 

From last I read, the OP does not have support nor has visitation/phone calls taken place from her recent XH for her other children. Nor does she appear to be the least but bothered by it.

 

It does give one pause to wonder, why would one hold the XMM to a standard/hoop jumping that one wouldn't hold an XH/Father of our other children to?

[Sub]

None of these bridges can be built until the "BW is insane" narrative changes, IMO. Unfortunately, I think it'll be hard to get the horses back in the barn there. She walked into a mediation between her H and a stranger, and the stranger presented evidence of her mental instability due to a medical condition. Of course she's not going to play nice. But for an "insane" person, she's acting pretty sane.

[Ms. Faust]

I am just confused how the lawyers were able to talk so openly about the wife's confidential medical information. Can someone please explain how that is even allowed?

[sandylee1]

"His lawyer said he consulted her when he was dating me because he wanted to divorce his wife but when I told him I was pregnant he dropped it and went back into the marriage".

 

Why would his lawyer divulge this confidential information?^^^^^ . That's a breach of client confidentiality.

 

Do these quack lawyers know what they're doing here?

 

The reason a client contacts their lawyer is confidential, what does this have to do with you?

If he was planning on leaving her anyway, why would you being pregnant make him change his mind?

 

Did he ask his lawyer to tell you this?

 

Something just doesn't add up here.

 

Lady H - I've got to say .... you have expressed yourself exceedingly clearly and articulated your points very well.

[AlwaysGrowing]

"His lawyer said he consulted her when he was dating me because he wanted to divorce his wife but when I told him I was pregnant he dropped it and went back into the marriage".

 

Why would his lawyer divulge this confidential information?^^^^^ . That's a breach of client confidentiality.

 

Do these quack lawyers know what they're doing here?

 

The reason a client contacts their lawyer is confidential, what does this have to do with you?

If he was planning on leaving her anyway, why would you being pregnant make him change his mind?

 

Did he ask his lawyer to tell you this?

 

Something just doesn't add up here.

 

Lady H - I've got to say .... you have expressed yourself exceedingly clearly and articulated your points very well.

 

I guess OP incites the defendants lawyer to give multiply reasons to be disbarred, because they can't stand the injustice being done to the OP by the "insane" BS?

[ChickiePops]

I don't know how close to the middle it will fall....there are lots of contradictions in the OP overall posts.

 

OP said she moved in with family, then says the Wife was trying to get her to move out of the apartment. Two different stories from just one side of it.

 

Early on in this thread, OP clearly stated that she told the XMM to use email or a lawyer to contact her...then complains when the other side chooses to use a lawyer for all communication.

 

From last I read, the OP does not have support nor has visitation/phone calls taken place from her recent XH for her other children. Nor does she appear to be the least but bothered by it.

 

It does give one pause to wonder, why would one hold the XMM to a standard/hoop jumping that one wouldn't hold an XH/Father of our other children to?

 

I've said this before..I suspect it's because OP is still hoping MM will leave his wife and be with her. I get the feeling that she's making this as difficult as humanly possible because she wants him to get fed up and divorce his wife for her just to escape all the hassle.

[Ms. Faust]

Yeah, some of the things May has reported are incredulous, especially in regards to xMM and BS' attorney. The attorney openly discussed his client's medical history, disparaged her, AND broke client confidentiality by telling her that MM consulted him for a divorce? Why would the attorney so openly incriminate his employers, the people paying him? It's jaw dropping.