An anatomy of the end of an affair – MM perspective

[Grey Cloud]

Jenkins - my turn to give YOU a big hug! You are brave and you have put yourself out there. You are still in recovery. You made a mistake but are determined to move forwards and I have every faith you can do that! It's been a long, hard, tortuous road but you are getting stronger each day. I am proud of you!

 

I am so glad that my post on that day when you were feeling your lowest and wanting to break NC helped you. All of your posts since then have helped me immensely. I always appreciate the time, thought and consideration you put into your responses

Edited March 1, 2016 by Grey Cloud

[OneLov]

Jenkins

 

I value the insight you provide LS; I encourage you to continue to express yourself.

 

OL

[jenkins95]

My "neighbor", the one I posted about a lot here on LS didn't ever "hurt". Even though we didn't have a physical affair and and/or an actual EA (cuz dude could barely have a two minute convo with me without peeing his pants), there was attraction and feelings there.

 

He changed my mind on how I looked at MM who sought out affairs. He made me hate them and realize how selfish the MMs are.

 

Yes, I used to believe some MM are dogs...some may have made a one-time "mistake"...and, some were trapped in a bad marriage. Well, not anymore.

 

I posted on LS the confusion and pain I had thinking "something" was there and not once did he step up and clear the air. I got ridiculed online about "me" being obsessed with him while in real life he darn well knows it was him with the odd behavior. Yet my feelings were never a concern for him...all he cared about was the "fix" he got from attention from me.

 

Oh yes, then he'd post online how I was the worst thing that happened to him. He compared me to a "cancer" that he needed to rid himself of...Yet, he's moved on to friending skanks on social media and is still with his "wife" who all I need to say is "Petunia" to describe her.

 

So sorry, I've learned (my recent experience) that MMs aren't "hurting". They don't care about the OW and/or their wives. They're gonna just do whatever's convenient for them. Oh, and they aren't "trapped" in bad marriages. And they don't get back with wifey cuz it's "the right thing to do". They do whatever works for "them".

 

Gloria, I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

 

This just demonstrates that not all MMs are the same. It cocurs with what anika99 said when suggested that I was probably being irresponsible to claim to be representing MMs in general. I think she has a great point and I'm sorry if my stance has upset peoploe. I will have a reply to anika99's opost later.

 

I definitely am not like your MM, didn't behave like that and didn't say those things. Am I claiming to be 'better' than him. Absolutely and emphatically not - just different. At the end of the day, we both did a terrible thing that hurt others, but we dealt with the aftermath differently.

[jenkins95]

Agree with all the above. It also struck me that a phrase you have used several times in posts about the OW always being 'a part of you' is the kind of cliched, overblown romantic (non)thinking that got you into the affair in the first place. Words are powerful creators of thought and feeling. Be careful how you use them as these examples aren't helpful to the long term aim you claim to have.

 

It's a very fair point Cymbeline, and it's funny that you mentioned that this is cliched because one thing that amazed me when I started to dig around and read lots of articles about affairs when things started getting difficult, was what a complete walking cliche I and my affair was.

 

Just to clarify, when I say she will always be 'a part of me', I don't mean that completely in the cliched, romantic sense that it possibly appears. I simply mean that the affair was a time in my life where I experienced the most intense and extreme emotions of my life - some positive, many negative. It has shaken me (and other people) to my very foundations, and it's unrealistic and wrong to suggest that I will simply put that behind me and forget it. I am sure for the rest of my life I will regularly think back to the affair and of the AP. Many of the thoughts will be of regret and some incredulity that I ever allowed myself to get into a situation like that, but I am sure that there will also be thoughts of affection for her and genuine hope that she is happy, doing well in life. I know that that maynot be nice for BSs to read, just trying to be honest.

[jenkins95]

Definitely an amazing read. I ended this with MM not because I was mad or because he wouldn't leave his wife, but because it just got to the point where I couldn't stand the thought of him losing everything because of having sex with me. And it would have been everything. Wife, house, job, kids, respect, position in community, most of his friends/acquaintances, money he spent a lifetime building.

 

I couldn't do that. I did have one very sweet OW message me from here and tell me I probably did love him, since I was willing to not continue the selfishness. I don't know if I agree with that, but I'm glad I never saw him detirioarate mentally and physically as you did.

 

We are still able to be friends. LC, and we exchange gifts through the mail. We CANNOT see each other as that is just too tempting. It is a definite blessing to be long distance. My toughest times are when bad things happen, I sometimes want to lean on him too much. I recognize that and during my last crisis I waited over a week to call him. I have a lot male friends since I was in the military. My recent conversations with MM aren't that much different than with my military buddies. Okay, maybe less swearing and trash talk.

 

Good luck as you heal. It will get better for you.

 

Thanhks so much Lady2163. You showed a special kind of love in ending it how you did. I'm really glad that you now have an arrangement that works for you!

[jenkins95]

wmacbride

 

I want to thank you so much for your post. I am trembling and on the verge of tears. It is so so valuable to me and gives me a great viewpoint from which to see certain things clearly. Some specific responses.

 

I'm not saying that to make you feel guilty, but more to question if you are really giving your w the space she needs to fully and freely grieve the loss of her marriage and who she thought you were. Many bs need to go through that process, and for some, it can be hard, especially if there is continues contact between the ws and the ow/om after d-day.

 

Absolutely - very wise words macb. Initial aftermath conversations were mainly pure anger, but after the dust settled, she very much expressed the sentiments that you allude to above. She was torn apart by the loss of innocence, the loss of trust in me, and her changed perception of the man she thought she knew inside out. Those are amongst the saddest conversations we have. She is doing amazingly well and all I can do is keep reassuring her, having the hard conversations when she/we need to and keep showing her that I love her, want to be there and would never, ever do anything like that again. Quite frankly I think I would rather die than go through that again.

 

 

Your m will also likely never be the same. it will have lost it's innocence, and that can be a very difficult thing to face. I can't speak for her, but right now, she may very well feel like she can not depend on you, you are no longer the one person in the world she can count on.

 

Yes, this is the saddest aspect. Our marriage will never be the same as it was before infidelity became a part of it. She has been forced to confront things that no married person should ever have to deal with, and I feel a great deal of shame for that.

 

I know I sound really negative, but in many ways, this can actually be an opportunity. You had the option of leaving your m, and you chose not to do that. Time can be a great healer.

 

Think of it this way. Your A scorched and strafed your m until not much remains, but the foundation can still be as strong as ever. You need to rebuild on that, and it can be even better. Just make sure to give your wife the opportunity to grieve without feeling like she will lose you if she does. When I say "grieve' I don't mean bouts of crying or anger, while those are also important, I'm talking about something fundamentally different. It is about loss. You will know she is doing it when you see a far off look in her eyes like she is lost in thought, when she twists her wedding band on her finger, when you see her leafing through old photos of her "pre-marraige" days ad the days when you were newlyweds.

 

We have many ceremonies surrounding other forms of grief, while for some of the most basic, we have none, This is one of those situations.

 

One thing a married couple I know did after the A was to gather up all the mementos of the A, and many things of the "pre-a" marriage and quietly burn them together. To them, that symbolized the start of something new, and allowed them to both let go of the past. The ashes were then gathered up and spread around the roots of the newly planted tree in their yard. To them, in symbolized how something wonderful can grow from something hurtful to both of them.

 

macb, thanks so much for ending your post with such positivity and hope. The story of what your friends did is amazing, very symbolic - sad, but quite lovely in many ways.

 

You are right. There were definitely things not right with my m before the A and this is a major factor as to why I ended up in an A. I stress that it is absolutely no excuse - NEVER any excuses for doing that. But with reflection, I can see how we drifted in different directions. One thing I was always hopeless at was talking about my problems. I am a classic conflict avoider and people pleaser and internalised all my problems - and look where it got me.

 

We are now talking - properly. Issues are being discussed that I haven't talked about for years and had thought were insurmountable - but they are not. Talking - really communicating can solve so much and make you feel really connected. It's the biggest lesson I've learned about changes I need to make about myself - talk and communicate, don't bottle up and internalise.

 

I really appreciate the advice on giving my wife the time and space to grieve - thanks macb. you are an angel

[jenkins95]

I can't speak for Jenkins but my guess is that it's partly a therapeutic thing for him given that he is committed to NC. Jenkins is still shy of 100 days into NC which, after a 1 year A, is not really that long although it's certainly impressive. But it must still be hard. The post rehashes the whole affair in a way that seems like it would be therapeutic. Jenkins addresses OW because that's the one he can't talk to and probably feels there are unsaid things there, or things he still ruminates on. If BW had left him, he would probably be writing this post to BW - but BW is reconciling with him so he's able to talk this through with her. Just my thoughts, obviously I will let Jenkins answer as well but I think in general, during recovery, I think it's fine for people to post their thoughts and ramblings directed at OW/M... Better than breaking NC, certainly.

 

Great post lemondrop! You have hit the nail on the head. One of the reasons that I imagine in my head a mainly OW audience to my posts is that I can't talk to my OW herself! And just to clarify - I don't want to - I am fully committed to NC. One thing I would like to have been able to say to the OW is a simple and sincerely sorry - sorry that I interfered with her life and caused so much pain. And a genuine wish that she now goes on and has a great life. I think I probably did say this many times back when the A was ending, but everything was such a bomb site then - everything we said was framed in tearful, heart-broken conversations where it was difficult to pick out real meaning form simple raw emotion. With the dust settled and recovery commenced, it would be nice to be able to say that to her in a calm atmosphere without tears and everything kicking off and in ruins around us.

 

I will never be able to do that, but I'm kind of doing that by proxy in some of my posts.

 

I'm not sure, but I think this also started in the OW/OM forum, so it makes sense why he was that focused on her.

 

Yes, Lady - the above response also explains why I was naturally inclined to post my thread to the OM/OW forum to start with.

[imperfectangel]

I think it's quite naive to expect MM to completely forget about his OW just because he has re-commited to his marriage. There was obviously a connect there between them whether BS likes to admit that or not. It's natural to think of people from our past and the lessons we learnt from them and our relationship to them.

[jenkins95]

Jenkins-thank you for sharing your story in such heartbreakingly, brutally honest detail. I wish you and your spouse much strength during this rebuilding process ahead. I also feel for your XAP, having lost two men who she was at one time in love with, one after the other. Her going NC was brave. Whatever decisions she made prior to that happening she must own. That doesn't mean she isn't suffering.

 

All that being said, you are a unique and caring person to have given the type of support/advice and positivity that you have to the hurting here on LS. Thank you for that, you are remarkable in your empathy.

 

Cheers to better days ahead.

 

Doublegold! Thanks for saying such a sweet thing at the end of your message - you made me smile, again And cheers to you too DG!

 

I agree with what you say. I am committed to NC and I really want my marriage to recover. But I don't feel it is wrong for me to wish the OW well in my mind. Like me, she made a stupid, selfish mistake. We have both paid in different ways. She now has the chance to start with a clean slate and I really hope she does just that, learns from what happened, owns her part in it and has a great life. We spent so longing actually getting to NC and that is a shame because it did more damaged and delayed recovery. But we are there now!

 

Have a lovely day DG - looking forward to reading your other posts later - they are always brilliant.

[Cymbeline]

Jenkins I believe absolutely that the memory of you AP will remain and, if parting was amicable, I believe you will retain feelings for her. It's inevitable if the affair was meaningful and , as you say, I believe most affairs to be experienced with great intensity.

 

But your explanation is psychologically more coherent, intelligent and may lead to a more mature acceptance for all parties when you steer away from romanticised 'shorthand' I'fyou see what I mean. Especially for people who are not as far on in their own introspection.

 

That's how I feel anyway.

[Cymbeline]

I think it's quite naive to expect MM to completely forget about his OW just because he has re-commited to his marriage. There was obviously a connect there between them whether BS likes to admit that or not. It's natural to think of people from our past and the lessons we learnt from them and our relationship to them.

 

 

Agreed. But I'm not sure anyone on this thread is expecting to forget? It's more a case of getting emotions back in alignment with rational thought - something that has likely gone awry for anyone involved in an affair?

[jenkins95]

Jenkins I believe absolutely that the memory of you AP will remain and, if parting was amicable, I believe you will retain feelings for her. It's inevitable if the affair was meaningful and , as you say, I believe most affairs to be experienced with great intensity.

 

But your explanation is psychologically more coherent, intelligent and may lead to a more mature acceptance for all parties when you steer away from romanticised 'shorthand' I'fyou see what I mean. Especially for people who are not as far on in their own introspection.

 

That's how I feel anyway.

 

Thanks for your thoughts C. I do see your point and I can't disagree with what you've said. I will try to avoid cliched phrasings - they are a little cringe-worthy sometimes I agree, to say the least. And I'm sorry if their use upset anyone.

[jenkins95]

I think it's quite naive to expect MM to completely forget about his OW just because he has re-commited to his marriage. There was obviously a connect there between them whether BS likes to admit that or not. It's natural to think of people from our past and the lessons we learnt from them and our relationship to them.

 

 

Agreed. But I'm not sure anyone on this thread is expecting to forget? It's more a case of getting emotions back in alignment with rational thought - something that has likely gone awry for anyone involved in an affair?

 

Absolutely. Right at the end of an affair it is difficult to see it and feel it rationally. Several months afterwards, NC in place and having had many, many conversations at home, the dust has settled a little and I am able to step back and see the bigger picture much more clearly and understand why I did what I did and begin to understand what it was all about.

[waterwoman]

 

Given all of the pain and destruction that your affair caused and the hurt and devastation your wife has been through, and given that you say you love your wife and you want to fully recover and reconcile, do you think it's appropriate and respectful of your wife's feelings to come on this forum to explain and comfort a group of OW? Would you be willing to go to your wife right now and say "honey, I just wanted to let you know that I just spilled my heart soul out to a group of OW on the internet because I felt called upon to let OW everywhere know that all their MM truly loved and cared for them?" After all your wife has been through and all you have asked her to forgive do you think sharing your deepest innermost feelings with many OW is something your wife would support? If not then do you think doing it anyways because your wife doesn't know what you are up to on the internet is okay and taking the right path to reconciliation? .

 

 

I tend to agree with the above. I admire your efforts to reconcile with your wife and from your write on here you are doing well....but if I were your wife I'd be a little uncomfortable with the feelings you share on here. Also why do you seem to be more invested in the OW side of the forum than the infidelity side? BW need a great deal of reassurance too but if were her and I saw this I'd be feeling betrayed all over again. Kind as your impulses might be I don't think it's your responsibility to reassure ALL OW that their MM really cared - for a start you don't know that and secondly you have a far more important job to do at the moment.

 

Sorry to be a downer but please please don't assume that your wife is hunkydory and you can take the eye of the ball. She won't be - not yet, maybe not for a long time.

 

Keep up the good work on the home front jenkins. Good luck.

[jenkins95]

Hi anika

 

Thanks very for your post. I agree - not a flaming at all, just some very well thought out observations and I do welcome being challenged like this, especially in the nice friendly manner that you have employed!

 

I noticed that you first posted this thread on the OW/OM board and that most of your words do indeed seem to be geared to offering insight and comfort to all of the OW here and that got me to thinking.

 

Given all of the pain and destruction that your affair caused and the hurt and devastation your wife has been through, and given that you say you love your wife and you want to fully recover and reconcile, do you think it's appropriate and respectful of your wife's feelings to come on this forum to explain and comfort a group of OW?

 

First of all, do you really think that what I have written is particularly comforting to OWs? The theme is mainly about the awful, heartbreaking chain of events that represent the end of my affair - horrible for all players including the OW. I don't believe that I have in any way glorified the role of the OW, given her special treatment, or painted her in a particularly positive light?: Would you agree? I just wanted to provide insight into the workings of the mind of the MM (well, this MM!) when things start to go wrong, as many OWs report that they don't often get this kind of info from their own MM. It's not that I particularly want to provide comfort (although if I do, I'm glad!), it was more insight I was trying to offer.

 

Also, the reply I gave earlier provides another reason as to why I felt most comfortable posting to the OM/OW forum. Just pasting it again below: -

 

......One of the reasons that I imagine in my head a mainly OW audience to my posts is that I can't talk to my OW herself! And just to clarify - I don't want to - I am fully committed to NC. One thing I would like to have been able to say to the OW is a simple and sincerely sorry - sorry that I interfered with her life and caused so much pain. And a genuine wish that she now goes on and has a great life. I think I probably did say this many times back when the A was ending, but everything was such a bomb site then - everything we said was framed in tearful, heart-broken conversations where it was difficult to pick out real meaning form simple raw emotion. With the dust settled and recovery commenced, it would be nice to be able to say that to her in a calm atmosphere without tears and everything kicking off and in ruins around us.

 

Would you be willing to go to your wife right now and say "honey, I just wanted to let you know that I just spilled my heart soul out to a group of OW on the internet because I felt called upon to let OW everywhere know that all their MM truly loved and cared for them?" After all your wife has been through and all you have asked her to forgive do you think sharing your deepest innermost feelings with many OW is something your wife would support? If not then do you think doing it anyways because your wife doesn't know what you are up to on the internet is okay and taking the right path to reconciliation?

 

Good question. Just to reiterate, the main point of my post was not because "I felt called upon to let OW everywhere know that all their MM truly loved and cared for them?". I was simply giving insight into the workings of my mind as I went through the debilitating process of ending an affair. I don't believe that I gave OWs special treatment in the post. I did state that I feel most MMs do love their OWs during a LTR. I said it because I believe it to be true, but making that point wasn't my main mission.

 

If to my wife, I had destroyed the OW with words, using terms like bi***, ho, etc and then came on here with this post, during which I try to be respectful to and sympathetic with OWs, then yes, that would make me very two faced and would raise concerns as to the authenticity of my reconciliatory intentions. The fact is, I told my wife that there was a genuine connection with the OW, that the L word was exchanged between us and that I even considered making big life changes. I then went on to say that I recognised that those feelings, although genuine, were due to being in the heat of the affair - the fog or whatever else you want to call it and that many people could potentially experience those feelings, even when they have a good marriage if they are stupid enough to put themselves in the situation I had put myself into, and that now I have stepped back, ended it and maintained NC, I now see the bigger picture, love my family and really want to move on. Having read that, I hope you will agree that my post was in tune with what I have been saying to my wife.

 

Having said that , if my wife were to read my post over my shoulder, yes I admit that I would feel a little uncomfortable. But she knows I use the internet and various forums and she knows I am likely to post amongst other things, about my thoughts of the OW. So I don't feel that what I write is wrong or disrespectful, especially as it is all anonymous. In the same way, I wouldn't necessarily want to view some of the affair-related articles that my wife has been reading or any posts that she may have made to forums. I'm sure she has been digging a lot to see into the minds of unfaithful spouses and may have communicated with other BSs. I cringe to think of what may have been discussed and it may make uncomfortable reading for me. In an otherwise newly transparent marriage, I see nothing wrong in giving each other the freedom to seek anonymous advice and help on the Internet without watching each other's every move. That said, if either of us demanded to see the others posts, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

 

Also you cannot speak for all MM just because you have been an MM. You don't know what every MM thinks and feels and I'm not sure it's healthy for you or the OW here to pretend that you do.

 

Fair point anika, and a great illustration of this was provided in Gloria25's post.

 

I would like to apologise to readers if I took the stance that I was representing all MM, and for any upset that this may have caused.

 

Like many people that are affected by affairs, when things started going bad, I headed online.....I searched and read on the Internet like crazy, and that's how I found LoveShack of course. I must have read case studies of hundreds, possibly over a thousand affairs. I think this behaviour is quite typical as we try to understand the craziness of what we have done, what we went through, what we are still going through and what we should do next. As I read story after story, I recognised my affair and myself and realised that I was fairly typical of an MM in an affair and that my affair itself was fairly typical of affairs in general. I therefore felt in my post yesterday that I was fairly well positioned to represents MMs in general.

 

But everyone is different and instead of attempting to represent MMs in general, I would like instead to be considered as representing an 'average' MM, whose actions are typical of a stereotypical affair, and whose affair itself followed a very predictable course of events, with nothing particularly different from the norms and similar to many we read about. But I don't represent all MMs and my affair doesn't represent all affairs. They both come in all shapes and sizes. I apologise again if my original stance upset anyone.

Edited March 1, 2016 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

I tend to agree with the above. I admire your efforts to reconcile with your wife and from your write on here you are doing well....but if I were your wife I'd be a little uncomfortable with the feelings you share on here. Also why do you seem to be more invested in the OW side of the forum than the infidelity side? BW need a great deal of reassurance too but if were her and I saw this I'd be feeling betrayed all over again. Kind as your impulses might be I don't think it's your responsibility to reassure ALL OW that their MM really cared - for a start you don't know that and secondly you have a far more important job to do at the moment.

 

Sorry to be a downer but please please don't assume that your wife is hunkydory and you can take the eye of the ball. She won't be - not yet, maybe not for a long time.

 

Keep up the good work on the home front jenkins. Good luck.

 

waterwoman!

 

Thanks so much for the contribution. You contributed to my thread last summer and I really appreciate that too!

 

I really am committed to NC and am not more aligned with OWs than BSs. I am really not! Sorry if it appears that way. Could I ask you to read the reply I just sent to anika99's questions? I think they pretty much address your questions too.

 

It was important to me to make the point that I believe in most cases (but not all) if an affair is intense and has been going for more than a month or so in length, it is highly likely that the MM has developed strong feelings for the OW. Later attempts by the MM to swerve this using cliches such as "I wasn't in love with her, I was in love with the fantasy", "It was just an addiction" or "It wasn't real love, it was just the fog", are understandably employed as he wants to put it behind him, commit to NC and desperately doesn't want to admit to anyone, least of all himself that he felt genuine love. However, to me, all of that that is just a convenient side-step. All the above excuses are just a way of masking what is actually the feeling of being in love - illicit love? Yes. Inappropriate, hurtful, selfish love? Yes. Limerence love? Probably. But love all the same.

[wmacbride]

wmacbride

 

I want to thank you so much for your post. I am trembling and on the verge of tears. It is so so valuable to me and gives me a great viewpoint from which to see certain things clearly. Some specific responses.

 

 

 

Absolutely - very wise words macb. Initial aftermath conversations were mainly pure anger, but after the dust settled, she very much expressed the sentiments that you allude to above. She was torn apart by the loss of innocence, the loss of trust in me, and her changed perception of the man she thought she knew inside out. Those are amongst the saddest conversations we have. She is doing amazingly well and all I can do is keep reassuring her, having the hard conversations when she/we need to and keep showing her that I love her, want to be there and would never, ever do anything like that again. Quite frankly I think I would rather die than go through that again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

macb, thanks so much for ending your post with such positivity and hope. The story of what your friends did is amazing, very symbolic - sad, but quite lovely in many ways.

 

You are right. There were definitely things not right with my m before the A and this is a major factor as to why I ended up in an A. I stress that it is absolutely no excuse - NEVER any excuses for doing that. But with reflection, I can see how we drifted in different directions. One thing I was always hopeless at was talking about my problems. I am a classic conflict avoider and people pleaser and internalised all my problems - and look where it got me.

 

We are now talking - properly. Issues are being discussed that I haven't talked about for years and had thought were insurmountable - but they are not. Talking - really communicating can solve so much and make you feel really connected. It's the biggest lesson I've learned about changes I need to make about myself - talk and communicate, don't bottle up and internalise.

 

I really appreciate the advice on giving my wife the time and space to grieve - thanks macb. you are an angel

 

your welcome. It's just some advice from someone who's a few years out from where you and your wife are, and I hope it helps.

 

If you see her working through her grief and yo want to help, ask her what she needs form you. If she says nothing, just hold her. You don't have to say anything, and sometimes silent support is the best kind there is.

[frogss29]

jenkins95

you might have already answered this question........but why, if you felt so strongly and passionately for your AP, did you stay with your wife? If she was so important, why didnt you divorce ?

[jenkins95]

jenkins95

you might have already answered this question........but why, if you felt so strongly and passionately for your AP, did you stay with your wife? If she was so important, why didnt you divorce ?

 

Hi frogss29!

 

Pretty cliched response I'm afraid: -

 

1. I didn't want to split up my family and cause chaos for everyone.

 

2. I realised that I did love my wife - just that we had grown apart a little, but that it could be rescued.

 

3. My wife's reaction after D-day. I saw her love and her desire to make it work. It woke me up and I too wanted to commit to reconciliation.

 

4. I didn't want to drag AP into such a complex, messy situation. Wanted her to be free to pursue someone single.

 

5. After reading numerous articles on the Internet and discovering here, realisation that I was typical of a MM in an affair hit me hard. I also found out that the success rate in relationships that start as affairs was pitiful and usually brought even more devastation to everyone involved.

 

6. I just wanted the whole thing to 'go away'. it was just meant to be a bit of fun. How had it evolved into such hell?

 

7. I didn't want the shame or chaos of divorce, co-parenting, etc. I would have made a lot of enemies and lost lots of respect and many friends. Very unlikely that friends/family would accept OW.

 

8. Again, after reading about so many affairs, I realised that I was in limerence, during which you feel you can face anything and your affair will survive on pure love......but if I had left my wife for my affair, I realised that one day I would wake up and not be in limerence any more - it's perfectly natural that it dies away. Then I would realise fully what I had done - and would probably regret it.

 

9. I started to fantasise more and more of a 'simpler' life with no AP. The magic dissipated, and even though I still had strong feelings, I knew that all this was not for me.

 

10. I wasn't prepared to take a HUGE risk.

 

These answers are pretty standard I feel.

 

Several months into NC, I'm SO glad I didn't leave.

 

Good luck to you - whatever your particular story.

Edited March 3, 2016 by jenkins95

[imperfectangel]

Your reasons are valid Jenkins BUT I wonder if you split from your wife while she had no knowledge of your affair and ow and yourself kept your affair a secret then came together as a genuine couple after everything had settled down I'm sure your family and friends would've viewed her differently and you could've been together

 

I admire you for reconciling but there is always a way

[seren]

An interesting thread and read, it has nothing at all in common with the anatomy of the end of an A from my WH's perspective, but I am pleased you (Jenkins) and others are finding comfort from the perspective of this MM's experience.

 

I would like to see my XWH feel closure and to find acceptance that he has had an A, unfortunately that isn't my experience. Almost 8 years ago my H told me he had been having an 8 month A, we decided our marriage of what was over 23 years at that time was worth more than just us walking away and that we loved each other enough to stay and reconcile.

 

Yes, reconciliation has been hard, far easier to walk away, but as I say, we love each other, truly, madly and very deeply. Not the unicorns and rainbows of our early relationship, but with a love far deeper than I thought possible. I just wish, with all that I have that my H could accept that good people sometimes do bad things and that his A does not define him. he struggles, always with what he did and how it has made him feel about himself. I have forgiven, not forgotten, but we love despite the A and not because of it.

 

I feel nothing toward the OW, indifference maybe, but not hate, to hate her I would have to hate him and I could never do that, even if he had walked away. H however, does hate what he sees as her role in my hurt, I don't understand that, nor do I nor have I ever pointed the finger squarely in her direction, but do acknowledge her role and certainly all the crap that followed for 6 years of her, quite literally, stalking and harassing me. However, I have tried to understand her pain and feeling rejection even though she is married and continues to have affairs. I see that as her being broken and looking for something outside her marriage, I wish her nothing but peace. I wish she had wished me the same for those 6 years of truly awful behaviour.

 

Saying all that, I wish for us all that it had never happened, I wish for me that I hadn't gone through that awful, dreadful time, that my marriage looked for all these years, how I thought it looked. Most of all I wish for my husband, who is the best of men, peace and acceptance. I wish for him to see him as I see him as a man who made a bad decision at the worse of times for him (combat stress and PTSD). From an XBS perspective of watching her XWS struggle to accept he hurt us and struggle to find the man he always thought he was and identified with is the worse struggle, (worse than a 1000 D Day's (from my perspective))

 

Not all A's end well, not all A's are about love and not all marriages reconcile for convenience and not all AP's, WS are bad. I would say that all A's wreak destruction on at least one person and that alone is not worth it. As with everything this is just my perspective from an XBS. If my H had written this I would hope he had also considered things from my perspective, I would imagine they would be way different. Just my perspective. I wish nothing but peace and happiness for everyone. serenx

[anika99]

Hi anika

 

Thanks very for your post. I agree - not a flaming at all, just some very well thought out observations and I do welcome being challenged like this, especially in the nice friendly manner that you have employed!

 

 

 

First of all, do you really think that what I have written is particularly comforting to OWs? The theme is mainly about the awful, heartbreaking chain of events that represent the end of my affair - horrible for all players including the OW. I don't believe that I have in any way glorified the role of the OW, given her special treatment, or painted her in a particularly positive light?: Would you agree? I just wanted to provide insight into the workings of the mind of the MM (well, this MM!) when things start to go wrong, as many OWs report that they don't often get this kind of info from their own MM. It's not that I particularly want to provide comfort (although if I do, I'm glad!), it was more insight I was trying to offer.

 

Also, the reply I gave earlier provides another reason as to why I felt most comfortable posting to the OM/OW forum. Just pasting it again below: -

 

......One of the reasons that I imagine in my head a mainly OW audience to my posts is that I can't talk to my OW herself! And just to clarify - I don't want to - I am fully committed to NC. One thing I would like to have been able to say to the OW is a simple and sincerely sorry - sorry that I interfered with her life and caused so much pain. And a genuine wish that she now goes on and has a great life. I think I probably did say this many times back when the A was ending, but everything was such a bomb site then - everything we said was framed in tearful, heart-broken conversations where it was difficult to pick out real meaning form simple raw emotion. With the dust settled and recovery commenced, it would be nice to be able to say that to her in a calm atmosphere without tears and everything kicking off and in ruins around us.

 

 

 

Good question. Just to reiterate, the main point of my post was not because "I felt called upon to let OW everywhere know that all their MM truly loved and cared for them?". I was simply giving insight into the workings of my mind as I went through the debilitating process of ending an affair. I don't believe that I gave OWs special treatment in the post. I did state that I feel most MMs do love their OWs during a LTR. I said it because I believe it to be true, but making that point wasn't my main mission.

 

If to my wife, I had destroyed the OW with words, using terms like bi***, ho, etc and then came on here with this post, during which I try to be respectful to and sympathetic with OWs, then yes, that would make me very two faced and would raise concerns as to the authenticity of my reconciliatory intentions. The fact is, I told my wife that there was a genuine connection with the OW, that the L word was exchanged between us and that I even considered making big life changes. I then went on to say that I recognised that those feelings, although genuine, were due to being in the heat of the affair - the fog or whatever else you want to call it and that many people could potentially experience those feelings, even when they have a good marriage if they are stupid enough to put themselves in the situation I had put myself into, and that now I have stepped back, ended it and maintained NC, I now see the bigger picture, love my family and really want to move on. Having read that, I hope you will agree that my post was in tune with what I have been saying to my wife.

 

Having said that , if my wife were to read my post over my shoulder, yes I admit that I would feel a little uncomfortable. But she knows I use the internet and various forums and she knows I am likely to post amongst other things, about my thoughts of the OW. So I don't feel that what I write is wrong or disrespectful, especially as it is all anonymous. In the same way, I wouldn't necessarily want to view some of the affair-related articles that my wife has been reading or any posts that she may have made to forums. I'm sure she has been digging a lot to see into the minds of unfaithful spouses and may have communicated with other BSs. I cringe to think of what may have been discussed and it may make uncomfortable reading for me. In an otherwise newly transparent marriage, I see nothing wrong in giving each other the freedom to seek anonymous advice and help on the Internet without watching each other's every move. That said, if either of us demanded to see the others posts, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

 

 

 

Fair point anika, and a great illustration of this was provided in Gloria25's post.

 

I would like to apologise to readers if I took the stance that I was representing all MM, and for any upset that this may have caused.

 

Like many people that are affected by affairs, when things started going bad, I headed online.....I searched and read on the Internet like crazy, and that's how I found LoveShack of course. I must have read case studies of hundreds, possibly over a thousand affairs. I think this behaviour is quite typical as we try to understand the craziness of what we have done, what we went through, what we are still going through and what we should do next. As I read story after story, I recognised my affair and myself and realised that I was fairly typical of an MM in an affair and that my affair itself was fairly typical of affairs in general. I therefore felt in my post yesterday that I was fairly well positioned to represents MMs in general.

 

But everyone is different and instead of attempting to represent MMs in general, I would like instead to be considered as representing an 'average' MM, whose actions are typical of a stereotypical affair, and whose affair itself followed a very predictable course of events, with nothing particularly different from the norms and similar to many we read about. But I don't represent all MMs and my affair doesn't represent all affairs. They both come in all shapes and sizes. I apologise again if my original stance upset anyone.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question OP. Your reply was very informative and well thought out. However I feel like you sort of danced around what I was getting at.

 

You have said here and in other threads that one of the reason you like to speak with the OW here is because you can't speak to your exOW. So you are kind of using the OW here as stand ins for her. That seems off to me somehow. I'm not sure having an OW by proxy is really 100% adhering to no contact and reconciliation. It seems you don't really know if your wife would be okay with what you write to the OW or not, you don't really know if it would hurt her or not. You're sort of taking the what she doesn't know won't hurt her approach and I think that thinking is what allows affairs to start and flourish in the first place.

 

I know a lot of the OW would say that you should be able to write these long posts explaining your feelings and reliving your affair to your mainly OW audience because your feelings are real and if your wife can't face that then it's her problem. Except I never said your feelings aren't real. I never said you should be expected to completely forget your OW and never have another thought of her. I very much doubt that your wife has that expectation either. My question was, is it appropriate for you to be unburdening yourself to the OW here and pretending that you are somehow speaking to your OW, when your wife is committed to reconciliation? She is committed to forgiving you and trying to put the affair behind her while you come here everyday to stoke the fires and relive the affair through your posts over and over again.

 

It's not so much a question of wrong or right, it's more a question of do your really want a true reconciliation where your marriage will become honest and strong and healthy or don't you? Right now it seems like you are not really committed to your wife and recovering the marriage. Oh it's obvious you're committed to staying with your wife but not really committed to the marriage. You are seeking out OW on the internet to share the intimate details of your affair and your feelings. Again isn't that how affairs start. I'm not saying that you are here looking for an affair, I'm just saying that I'm not sure that's practicing healthy boundaries or showing a true desire to

help your wife heal and recover your marriage.

 

That's just my perspective. It may not be yours and it may not even be your wife's perspective and that's cool, but I think you should at least find out what your wife's perspective is rather than just assume it's all good and it's okay cause she doesn't know anyways. She deserves to know about you. If you can't be open and honest with her then why even bother staying?

[Lady2163]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question OP. Your reply was very informative and well thought out. However I feel like you sort of danced around what I was getting at.

 

You have said here and in other threads that one of the reason you like to speak with the OW here is because you can't speak to your exOW. So you are kind of using the OW here as stand ins for her. That seems off to me somehow. I'm not sure having an OW by proxy is really 100% adhering to no contact and reconciliation. It seems you don't really know if your wife would be okay with what you write to the OW or not, you don't really know if it would hurt her or not. You're sort of taking the what she doesn't know won't hurt her approach and I think that thinking is what allows affairs to start and flourish in the first place.

 

I know a lot of the OW would say that you should be able to write these long posts explaining your feelings and reliving your affair to your mainly OW audience because your feelings are real and if your wife can't face that then it's her problem. Except I never said your feelings aren't real. I never said you should be expected to completely forget your OW and never have another thought of her. I very much doubt that your wife has that expectation either. My question was, is it appropriate for you to be unburdening yourself to the OW here and pretending that you are somehow speaking to your OW, when your wife is committed to reconciliation? She is committed to forgiving you and trying to put the affair behind her while you come here everyday to stoke the fires and relive the affair through your posts over and over again.

 

It's not so much a question of wrong or right, it's more a question of do your really want a true reconciliation where your marriage will become honest and strong and healthy or don't you? Right now it seems like you are not really committed to your wife and recovering the marriage. Oh it's obvious you're committed to staying with your wife but not really committed to the marriage. You are seeking out OW on the internet to share the intimate details of your affair and your feelings. Again isn't that how affairs start. I'm not saying that you are here looking for an affair, I'm just saying that I'm not sure that's practicing healthy boundaries or showing a true desire to

help your wife heal and recover your marriage.

 

That's just my perspective. It may not be yours and it may not even be your wife's perspective and that's cool, but I think you should at least find out what your wife's perspective is rather than just assume it's all good and it's okay cause she doesn't know anyways. She deserves to know about you. If you can't be open and honest with her then why even bother staying?

 

 

I thought about writing a really long post, but I just want to say I don't agree in the slightest that he is breaking NC, but using internet strangers as proxies. That's just a stretch to me.

 

There may be a chance LS can help with reconciliation. This is a man who needs to go through a process. His process.

[Grey Cloud]

I thought about writing a really long post, but I just want to say I don't agree in the slightest that he is breaking NC, but using internet strangers as proxies. That's just a stretch to me.

 

There may be a chance LS can help with reconciliation. This is a man who needs to go through a process. His process.

 

I agree with Lady. I feel that LS is helping Jenkins and others to get through this. A's destroy other people but most of all they destroy ourselves. Our sense of who we truly are and our self esteem. When we come out of the other side of an A we need to talk to others who have been in the same situation. To help remind ourselves of staying true to our chosen path, to provide support and to help with our recovery. Not to "re-live" the affair, not to continue to betray our partners but to help us understand why we did it in the first place and learn from our mistakes.

[health]

Wow, I don't know the science of affairs - but isn't part of the excitement the secretive going behind another person's back? Where indeed if that bubble is burst - and everything's all out in the open - does everything become less exciting then?

 

Did your affair partner rekindle her relationship with her ex boyfriend?

 

I really don't know what to say about all this.

 

Have you ever thought of just leaving your family and kinda starting your life from scratch again? Is that an option?

 

I'm sure everyone forgave you and everything and wishes you the best.

 

Just wondering what direction your heading in now after all of this?