An anatomy of the end of an affair – MM perspective

[elaine567]

Wow, I don't know the science of affairs - but isn't part of the excitement the secretive going behind another person's back?

 

Yes, and the forum chatter is just another "secret".

 

I think Anika may have a good point, but Jenkins is not alone, many are circumventing and in effect spoiling NC, by spending hours on here speaking about their ex, their relationship, their affair to anyone who will listen.

So whilst NC is ostentatiously in place, there is no attempt made to banish the ex from their lives, thoughts of the ex get rekindled every time they post.

 

I'm not sure having an OW by proxy is really 100% adhering to no contact and reconciliation.

...She is committed to forgiving you and trying to put the affair behind her, while you come here everyday to stoke the fires and relive the affair through your posts over and over again.

 

...You are seeking out OW on the internet to share the intimate details of your affair and your feelings.

[wmacbride]

Yes, and the forum chatter is just another "secret".

 

I think Anika may have a good point, but Jenkins is not alone, many are circumventing and in effect spoiling NC, by spending hours on here speaking about their ex, their relationship, their affair to anyone who will listen.

So whilst NC is ostentatiously in place, there is no attempt made to banish the ex from their lives, thoughts of the ex get rekindled every time they post.

 

I can understand this concept. If his wife knows he is going online for some extra support, that is one thing, but if it is kept a secret, or he is discussing things that he is hiding from her, that is troubling.

 

By that, I don't mean that he needs to get into every detail he does here. but if he told her that he uses online support groups to help him work through some of his feelings, she'd likely be okay with that. He'd also be acting openly and honestly with her as well, which is one of the many baby steps it takes to rebuild trust between the two of them are also bringing himslef back to the honest man he was before the A.

[waterwoman]

"So whilst NC is ostentatiously in place, there is no attempt made to banish the ex from their lives, thoughts of the ex get rekindled every time they post."

 

I do agree to a certain extent with this but I think it' more than that. I can't help seeing this as a further betrayal in a minor way. To any BS the affair is a hideous memory containing nothing but hurt and rejection. The WS isn't necessarily going to see it that way - certainly not at first. So both spouses have a disconnect regarding the A and can't see it through the other's eyes. IMO the onus is on the one who caused this to make the greater effort to see the other POV. The BS may develop empathy toward the WS as time passes and understanding grows but it can't come first.

 

My best scenario was that I wanted my H not to have had the affair. That clearly was impossible so the next best scenario was for him to stop it and make a firm decision to be with me and me only. He did that. Then I wanted him to not care about his OW and be as angry as I was - not possible although indifference was reached eventually. If he had been here, offering support and hugs to other OPs I'd have been quite resentful.

 

There is something about the MP's interaction with OP on here that feels wrong - of course everyone needs support to get over their problems but I can't help feeling the support should be more from those who have been in the shoes of the WS not the shoes of the OP. H relied for support on his male friends and my closest female friend. All of whom were 100% supportive of us as a couple.

 

I like to think I wasn't a vengeful BS - I think I was quite calm and measured in my response for the most part but one thing I demanded was 100% loyalty from H after dday. Loyalty to me and our marriage. I had felt as if I had been made a fool of and I was damned if he was going to do it any further.

 

I don't know what I am trying to say and I daresay my response is quite visceral and illogical. Apologies jenkins if I seem unreasonable - it's just my gut reaction.

[anika99]

I thought about writing a really long post, but I just want to say I don't agree in the slightest that he is breaking NC, but using internet strangers as proxies. That's just a stretch to me.

 

There may be a chance LS can help with reconciliation. This is a man who needs to go through a process. His process.

 

Oh I already know most of the posters on this thread are not going to agree with me. I think their focus is on what makes Jenkins feel good, whereas I'm talking about Jenkins, his wife, and his marriage. The not adhering to no contact was just one small part of my post. Of course I know posting here isn't the same as breaking no contact with the OW however since Jenkins has said numerous times that one of the reasons he posts to the OW here is because he can't talk to his OW then I do think there is an element of not being 100% in no contact. I don't think he's breaking no contact, I just think his frame of mind and what's in his heart isn't aligning with the true purpose of no contact.

[jenkins95]

Thanks for some further great posts to this thread guys. You have put a lot of effort into reading the whole thing and writing long thought out replies and I appreciate it. I also appreciate my motives, mindset, posts, etc being challenged in this way - especially in the respectful way in which you have done it. It all helps me take a look at myself from different angles and analyse exactly what I am doing in my recovery and whether or not I am always doing the right thing.

 

I have a couple of daunting 16 hour work shifts ahead of me over the weekend so whilst I may add a few short posts around the forums, I probably won't address the issues that you have raised until next week as I want to take the time to answer properly. But I will be thinking about it - and I will return here!

 

Have a great weekend all - and keep posting!

[OneLov]

I just think his frame of mind and what's in his heart isn't aligning

 

I agree.

 

Jenkins,

 

IMO, for reconciliation to have the highest chances of success the first reason on your list should have stated: I WANTED to reconcile with my wife. I cannot help but notice all the reasons are primarily for the benefit of other people. You stated in the third reason you wanted to reconcile, but only after you saw that she wanted to reconcile.

 

It is a very noble thing to stay together for the benefit of your family, and I commend you for that. However, I fear that because you are not making this choice 100% for yourself you will find reconciliation very difficult. It is like taking a job you are not 100% sure about but it pays well and has great benefits. Can you keep it? Sure. But unless you are willing to put in all the extra hours and work really hard, it will just be a job. There will be no career unless you want it for yourself.

 

What I am trying to say is unless you are 100% committed to doing what a lot of BS's and WS's advise, you may be reconciling for the wrong reasons. I can see you genuinely care and seem like you are trying to fix this situation. The problem is when you do something for the primary benefit of others it is much harder to be successful than if you are doing it primarily for yourself.

 

I really feel for you and wish you and your family all the best. You know more than anyone your feelings, I am not trying to tell you how you feel. I am only commenting on how some of your comments may appear from a third party perspective.

 

Best of Luck

OL

[Cymbeline]

No Contact needs to be psychological not physical; it doesn't seem to be happening.

[imperfectangel]

I disagree. Why must he hate his OW? I truly don't understand how a bs can forgive their h yet hate the ow. It isn't the ow that married you and planned a life with you, that was your h. Whilst I agree if husbands are re commiting to their marriages then their should be NC with the ow it doesn't mean the ow is the wicked witch - your h made his own choices and at least for sometime WANTED to be in his affair

 

I think what Jenkins is doing here is healthy. He's working out his feelings here rather than speaking to OW. I see LS as a kind of counselling session - a place to post our feelings and thoughts. Surely it's a good thing he wants to work through this? He has said over and over how he wants his M to work and j don't doubt him. There is no need to lie to strangers on the Internet

[purplesorrow]

I disagree. Why must he hate his OW? I truly don't understand how a bs can forgive their h yet hate the ow. It isn't the ow that married you and planned a life with you, that was your h. Whilst I agree if husbands are re commiting to their marriages then their should be NC with the ow it doesn't mean the ow is the wicked witch - your h made his own choices and at least for sometime WANTED to be in his affair

 

I think what Jenkins is doing here is healthy. He's working out his feelings here rather than speaking to OW. I see LS as a kind of counselling session - a place to post our feelings and thoughts. Surely it's a good thing he wants to work through this? He has said over and over how he wants his M to work and j don't doubt him. There is no need to lie to strangers on the Internet

 

My ex apologized for the hurt he caused. The ow only stated what you did above. She bore no responsibility and gave no real apology so why would I think she was anything but a heartless witch? No, she didn't make promises to me, but she did help damage my family. She could have at least admitted that it was wrong. I wouldn't want my ex to hate her and I don't hate her. She's not important enough to hate.

[health]

I disagree. Why must he hate his OW? I truly don't understand how a bs can forgive their h yet hate the ow. It isn't the ow that married you and planned a life with you, that was your h. Whilst I agree if husbands are re commiting to their marriages then their should be NC with the ow it doesn't mean the ow is the wicked witch - your h made his own choices and at least for sometime WANTED to be in his affair

 

I think what Jenkins is doing here is healthy. He's working out his feelings here rather than speaking to OW. I see LS as a kind of counselling session - a place to post our feelings and thoughts. Surely it's a good thing he wants to work through this? He has said over and over how he wants his M to work and j don't doubt him. There is no need to lie to strangers on the Internet

 

No one has to hate anyone. I think the forgiving to love thing is taken too far into being friends with exes. That guy who left his ex ap something from his will is a scary case.

 

Op posting here is better than seeing his ap. Its theraputic. The thing is all thoughts on her should stop eventually.

 

 

It almost seems like everything is so dead after an affair, with the affair itself serving as a fix or high out of life. Why anyone would start an affair in 2016 knowing history is just foolish.

 

Good luck.

[waterwoman]

I disagree. Why must he hate his OW? I truly don't understand how a bs can forgive their h yet hate the ow. It isn't the ow that married you and planned a life with you, that was your h. Whilst I agree if husbands are re commiting to their marriages then their should be NC with the ow it doesn't mean the ow is the wicked witch - your h made his own choices and at least for sometime WANTED to be in his affair

 

I think what Jenkins is doing here is healthy. He's working out his feelings here rather than speaking to OW. I see LS as a kind of counselling session - a place to post our feelings and thoughts. Surely it's a good thing he wants to work through this? He has said over and over how he wants his M to work and j don't doubt him. There is no need to lie to strangers on the Internet

 

I don't think anyone said 'hate'. The goal is indifference.

[imperfectangel]

My ex apologized for the hurt he caused. The ow only stated what you did above. She bore no responsibility and gave no real apology so why would I think she was anything but a heartless witch? No, she didn't make promises to me, but she did help damage my family. She could have at least admitted that it was wrong. I wouldn't want my ex to hate her and I don't hate her. She's not important enough to hate.

 

But you've no idea what stories your h told her, do you? She may not be important enough for you to hate but your h clearly thought she was important enough to risk losing his family over. Your husband hurt you and your family the ow could've been anyone, she was in the right place at the wrong time.

[purplesorrow]

But you've no idea what stories your h told her, do you? She may not be important enough for you to hate but your h clearly thought she was important enough to risk losing his family over. Your husband hurt you and your family the ow could've been anyone, she was in the right place at the wrong time.

 

It doesn't matter what he told her, she didn't know me and it wouldn't have mattered. From their correspondence he told her from day one she was just extra, he was never leaving. She told me she knew he was married and didn't care. I wish he had thought she was important enough, at least he wouldn't have thrown his family away for nothing. He was freed to go to her on dday but didn't and still hasn't three years later. She has moved on to the next husband and is being sued by his bw. And please clarify, are you saying there was no wrong doing on her part?

Edited March 4, 2016 by purplesorrow

[imperfectangel]

It doesn't matter what he told her, she didn't know me and it wouldn't have mattered. From their correspondence he told her from day one she was just extra, he was never leaving. She told me she knew he was married and didn't care. I wish he had thought she was important enough, at least he wouldn't have thrown his family away for nothing. He was freed to go to her on dday but didn't and still hasn't three years later. She has moved on to the next husband and is being sued by his bw.

 

Unfortunately some people are just horrible. But not every ow or affair is like that. Some are promised the world then dropped like a hot potatoe come d day. And that is also a very horrible position to be in. Good luck x

[purplesorrow]

Unfortunately some people are just horrible. But not every ow or affair is like that. Some are promised the world then dropped like a hot potatoe come d day. And that is also a very horrible position to be in. Good luck x

 

I never said nor thought that. I'm sure there are people in her life that she is wonderful to. I was really just trying to explain why there may be a dislike or what have you for an ap but not a ws. In reality, it's all just down right crappy. I hated that he treated a woman that way and told her so.

[jenkins95]

Brilliant little exchange between imperfectangel and purplesorrow. You come from different angles, have different experiences and are passionate in your beliefs and views. I love how, through thoughtful, respectful posts, you find a harmonious, common ground. I think that is one of the great things about LS - when people from different viewpoints can converse and understand each other's position. It takes for both parties to be respectful for it to really work - and we see that here. And of course, in what you post, you are BOTH right. Great stuff guys, keep posting and good luck to both of you!

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I read your whole story, I'm glad it had a therapeutic end,

However, my opinion, however unimportant, isn't to a good end,

 

For anyone fortunate not to have had an affair but considering it, please re-read this. I promise you that you don't want to go there. I congratulate you for coming here and seeking advice BEFORE embarking on an affair. I SO wish I had.

 

This is the only part of your story in which comes across as sincere, at least to me,

For the rest of the story seems as just a recollection, and justification, for what came to be.

[jenkins95]

I read your whole story, I'm glad it had a therapeutic end,

However, my opinion, however unimportant, isn't to a good end,

 

 

 

This is the only part of your story in which comes across as sincere, at least to me,

For the rest of the story seems as just a recollection, and justification, for what came to be.

 

You think I'm insincere doc? OK that's cool,

At the end if the day, love turned me into a fool.

 

But now I see the light and want to turn it around,

That's why I'm here, the answers are there to be found.

Edited March 4, 2016 by jenkins95

[anika99]

I disagree. Why must he hate his OW? I truly don't understand how a bs can forgive their h yet hate the ow. It isn't the ow that married you and planned a life with you, that was your h. Whilst I agree if husbands are re commiting to their marriages then their should be NC with the ow it doesn't mean the ow is the wicked witch - your h made his own choices and at least for sometime WANTED to be in his affair

 

I think what Jenkins is doing here is healthy. He's working out his feelings here rather than speaking to OW. I see LS as a kind of counselling session - a place to post our feelings and thoughts. Surely it's a good thing he wants to work through this? He has said over and over how he wants his M to work and j don't doubt him. There is no need to lie to strangers on the Internet

 

It's hard to know how to respond to this when it seems like you are responding to things that were never said. Nobody has said that the OP should hate his OW or that the OW is a wicked witch. I haven't seen anything close to that on this thread.

 

Nobody has accused the OP of lying either. We are encouraging him to examine his actions and his heart. I might really really want to quit smoking and be fully telling the truth when I say I want to quit smoking, Might even really be trying to quit smoking and wondering why I'm not as successful as I want to be. Doesn't mean I'm lying or that I'm not committed but it might mean I need to examine how I'm going about getting it done.

 

Jenkins has said he wants his marriage to heal and that's what I'm focusing on. I'm not saying anything about his OW at all

[wmacbride]

If the op is interested in moving forward in his marriage, at some point, he has to let go the ow, in his own mind as well.

 

If I am judge his relationship with his ow based on what he says, it was incredibly toxic. Any rleationship where you send more time crying and unhappy is really troubled. it almost becomes abusive, except the abuse is not heaped on the two involved by the other, it it heaped on them by themselves. At some point, one has to make a decision to either stay and keep that dynamic going, or walk away wit a clean break no looking back.

[sandylee1]

Unfortunately some people are just horrible. But not every ow or affair is like that. Some are promised the world then dropped like a hot potatoe come d day. And that is also a very horrible position to be in. Good luck x

 

Just chiming in here .... if you're promised the world by a man cheating on his wife and believe every word... that is really the fault of the OW. No need to blame your cheating lover.

[health]

Brilliant little exchange between imperfectangel and purplesorrow. You come from different angles, have different experiences and are passionate in your beliefs and views. I love how, through thoughtful, respectful posts, you find a harmonious, common ground. I think that is one of the great things about LS - when people from different viewpoints can converse and understand each other's position. It takes for both parties to be respectful for it to really work - and we see that here. And of course, in what you post, you are BOTH right. Great stuff guys, keep posting and good luck to both of you!

 

Lol part of me has to laugh at this whole situation. Not this exchange, but Jenkins - what you've created. You kind of come across like a God in your world. Very Alpha male like. You have a family, had an affair, you still have your family, discarded your lover, and are super positive and kind with others online in similar situuations. On paper it seems so destructive but it's like you've got such a cheery disposition on it all - and heck laughing through it and staying positive IS a great way of solving problems. I'm just curious in this - besides this relationship hoopla - do you have any life passions as an individual that you've succeeded in or are still in tact? It's a serious question and I'm curious to know if someone in a situation like yours has great passions as a sole individual that actually contributes to society.

[jenkins95]

Lol part of me has to laugh at this whole situation. Not this exchange, but Jenkins - what you've created. You kind of come across like a God in your world. Very Alpha male like. You have a family, had an affair, you still have your family, discarded your lover, and are super positive and kind with others online in similar situuations. On paper it seems so destructive but it's like you've got such a cheery disposition on it all - and heck laughing through it and staying positive IS a great way of solving problems. I'm just curious in this - besides this relationship hoopla - do you have any life passions as an individual that you've succeeded in or are still in tact? It's a serious question and I'm curious to know if someone in a situation like yours has great passions as a sole individual that actually contributes to society.

 

Thanks there health. It's good to know that my train wreck, if nothing else, is at least providing you with some entertainment!

[health]

Thanks there health. It's good to know that my train wreck, if nothing else, is at least providing you with some entertainment!

 

I appologize for the lol - it's more of a bewilderment. I understand it must be a tough place to be - and it is my hope that whatever it is you have to do at this point - to get to a better place - you do it. I do wish you the best on this going forward.

 

Again though - have your personal passions remained in tact or does something like this derail or distract from that?

 

Even if anyone else can answer that based on experiences - do long term cheaters have their talents derailed from entering long term affairs?

[Bittersweetie]

Jenkins~

Finally read your whole thread. I've seen your posts elsewhere and was interested in your story. As a fWS, who reconciled, I probably have more in common with your situation than many others.

 

First, one question. I did not see a concrete answer on this...does your wife know that you continued contact with your AP after your d-day? The calls, messages, etc? I am surprised if that is so. After my d-day, my H made it crystal clear that any contact would result in our relationship being over. It seems to me that my H's reaction is fairly common in such circumstances.

 

Speaking as a married person who had an affair...I have to agree with Anika and Waterwoman. While I understand your intentions are good, it seems off to me that you continue to help/console OW from your position as a fMM. It is very early in your process (three months) and I question whether you can handle those kind of interactions healthily right now...for your sake, your wife's, the other posters. For example, you mention PMing other members...I know you are trying to help, but what are your boundaries? Sharing stories and vulnerability could lead to an EA...not saying you would do that...but it can happen and would be hurtful to both you and the person you are PMing with. I have been on this site a long time, and have seen it happen many times. Please beware.

 

I am glad that you are moving forward, but again you are so early in the process. So is your wife, your marriage. This is something that takes a long time to work through...for me it was probably about a year before I truly figured out the why of my actions. A year before my H and I began to feel comfortable with each other again. Good luck.