An anatomy of the end of an affair – MM perspective

[jenkins95]

Hi Bittersweetie

 

Many thanks for the comments. Likewise, I have read a lot of your posts and have drawn lots of comparisons and similarities. I really hope things are going well for you. I have a few responses to the things you raised: -

 

First, one question. I did not see a concrete answer on this...does your wife know that you continued contact with your AP after your d-day? The calls, messages, etc? I am surprised if that is so. After my d-day, my H made it crystal clear that any contact would result in our relationship being over. It seems to me that my H's reaction is fairly common in such circumstances.

 

Difficult to answer with a simple yes or now, so let em explain a little. Background first - by the time my D-day arrived, the situation was already a nightmare and SHE had already had a D-day. I had already really wanted to end it, but I was very weak. I couldn't bring myself to just end it and walk away. I tried to end it gradually, tried to make her see that we both had to end it mutually for everyone's sake - but we were both so weak and lacked the resolve to do it, and the limbo dragged on. When my D-day came, I was by this stage desperate for it to be over. Like in your case, my wife made it very clear that it had to end. I totally agreed but am ashamed to admit that it still dragged on longer than it should have even after that - all the conversations from that point were now pretty much purely about ending it, but still we tortured ourselves and dragged it out. my wife gave me space to end it. She knew that I contacted OW to end it, but she probably didn't know how many calls there were or how traumatic we were making it.

 

My apparent weakness in this wasn't purely down to the fact that I am such a pathetic individual (although that helped). There was another agenda: When I finally ended my A, I wanted it to be over - completely. I didn't want for things to be left unsaid, or for the OW to feel that she hadn't been given the opportunity to ask questions, get answers, to understand and to find some kind of closure, or that she had been thrown under a bus and treated with total disdain and disrespect. Why? Well, two reasons - 1. However wrong and dirty the whole thing was, she is a living, breathing human being who I hurt, and I wanted to make her entry into recovery as bearable as it could possibly be on purely compassionate grounds, and 2. Far more importantly, I wanted to minimise the chances that she would feel the need to come back or turn "bunny-boiler". When it shut, I wanted to shut the door permanently, and if that meant dragging out the end a little longer than ideal, then so be it.

 

Speaking as a married person who had an affair...I have to agree with Anika and Waterwoman. While I understand your intentions are good, it seems off to me that you continue to help/console OW from your position as a fMM. It is very early in your process (three months) and I question whether you can handle those kind of interactions healthily right now...for your sake, your wife's, the other posters. For example, you mention PMing other members...I know you are trying to help, but what are your boundaries? Sharing stories and vulnerability could lead to an EA...not saying you would do that...but it can happen and would be hurtful to both you and the person you are PMing with. I have been on this site a long time, and have seen it happen many times. Please beware.

 

Thanks for your concern here, Bittersweetie. Similar to those expressed by waterwoamn, wmacbride, etc. I genuinely do see your point here, and I really am thinking about that, taking it on board and guarding and monitoring my behaviour appropriately. I will just paste a section of one of my posts from another thread to clarify my thoughts a bit: -

 

......Yes, there are still lingering feelings for the OW - but these genuinely take just a tiny fraction of the sum total of my thoughts and energy. It is just that I can't help dwelling on certain things and regretting that, as well as the awful hurt that I have caused to my wife and myself, there are other human beings out there that have suffered directly due to my actions.

 

I could try to completely shut these feelings out, hide them somewhere in a dark corner of my mind never to be spoken of, or I can use an anonymous forum, specifically designed for discussing these very types of issues to thrash things out. It's a no-brainer for me as I have learned from suffering depression earlier in life that shutting thoughts out is a much slower path to getting over something than is being open and talking things through. So discussing issues here is the best way to get them "out of my system" (good name! ) Therefore that is what I will do until I don't feel the need to talk about that side of my recovery any more - I think I am already close to that point, and I appreciate all the feedback of any kind.

 

Other posters have suggested that it is selfish and disloyal to my BS to waste even 1% of my energy with thoughts in the direction of the OW. But would they be giving the same advice if I were to see an individual counsellor? Surely I would be advised to talk about EVERYTHING, and that the counsellor indeed provides an outlet for issues that may be too delicate to discuss with the BS. is this fair? I do take on board suggestions that I should be completely focussed on rescuing my marriage, which is effectively in the emergency room. That is correct, and I just want to make it clear that I am putting body and soul into my recovery as is my wonderful spouse.

 

The thing is guys, you ARE my counsellors - all of you - and you are brilliant. And I want to be yours.

 

waterwoman later followed that up with this.....

 

......I would never suggest you can force yourself to stop thinking about her, I don't believe you shouldn't feel compassion for any pain you have caused her, I don't think you should hate her..... After all the goal is indifference not dislike. I just question the way you are choosing to exorcise these demons and where you are doing it. I think a counsellor would be a far better place - someone who can be neutral rather than emotionally invested. No-one here is without at least a few traces of a dog in this hunt, neither OP and BS.

 

Yes, fair point by waterwoman, and all of you who share these sentiments, and I seriously consider all the points you have raised. I also consider what you said about PMs very carefully, Bitter. I don't believe that anything I have discussed in PMs has been inappropriate, but you are wise to warn me and I will guard and monitor this. I actually think that there is more chance of my flying to Mars than having another affair, having seen the damage it causes. But I shouldn't let that make me complacent. I need to be guarded in how I interact and behave with women all my life from now on. I am a natural flirt (just sweet, innocent flirting - or so I thought) and I tend to be more comfortable talking to women than men. My intentions are completely innocent - it's just that I find conversation flows much better with women. This is no longer acceptable - I have to learn how to become a "man's man"! Maybe I should start buying car magazines, take up fishing and start supporting a football team

 

I am glad that you are moving forward, but again you are so early in the process. So is your wife, your marriage. This is something that takes a long time to work through...for me it was probably about a year before I truly figured out the why of my actions. A year before my H and I began to feel comfortable with each other again. Good luck.

 

Thank you Bitter - it really is getting much better, and we are happier at home - very early days I know. But three months in, I do feel that we may be like you and your H and feel pretty comfortable a year after. Regarding complete recovery, the figure of 2-5 years is bandied about here quite often. That feels about right too. I will never forget how fortunate I am that my wife gave me that chance. I'm so glad things are going well for you and H. How long past D-day are you now? I wish you nothing but the best. Jenks

[jenkins95]

Lol part of me has to laugh at this whole situation. Not this exchange, but Jenkins - what you've created. You kind of come across like a God in your world. Very Alpha male like. You have a family, had an affair, you still have your family, discarded your lover, and are super positive and kind with others online in similar situuations. On paper it seems so destructive but it's like you've got such a cheery disposition on it all - and heck laughing through it and staying positive IS a great way of solving problems. I'm just curious in this - besides this relationship hoopla - do you have any life passions as an individual that you've succeeded in or are still in tact? It's a serious question and I'm curious to know if someone in a situation like yours has great passions as a sole individual that actually contributes to society.

 

Sorry it has taken me so long to answer this health!

 

Wow, it is amazing that your impression of me from my posts is of this God-like alpha male! Now it is me who is laughing!

 

In reality, it is a very different picture from that! I am quite a passive, happy-go-lucky individual who gladly blends into the background, goes with the flow, is uncomfortable trying to influence others and is fairly happy being unseen! Pretty much polar opposites of the God-like alpha male!

 

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I don't really have any grand passions that impact society as a whole (but you've inspired me to try to create some!). I just want to live a happy, simple life......and have found that affairs are not the best way of achieving that!

 

I have experienced the true horrors of an affair, but I do try to display a cheery disposition on the boards - it is just my style. I always try to take the attitude that, yes, things are bad, but we can get past this, we can make up for this, we can improve things and learn from this, things may be better than ever one day! Occasionally in adversity, blind positivity, even laughter can be a comforting retreat. But I don't want to give the impression that I don't take my own situation, and those of other posters very seriously - because I do. But we have to look forward, and if we can do so with positivity and a smile hopefully we have a better chance of getting to where we really want to be?

 

I really hope you are well health!

Edited March 10, 2016 by jenkins95

[Bittersweetie]

I actually think that there is more chance of my flying to Mars than having another affair, having seen the damage it causes. But I shouldn't let that make me complacent. I need to be guarded in how I interact and behave with women all my life from now on. I am a natural flirt (just sweet, innocent flirting - or so I thought) and I tend to be more comfortable talking to women than men. My intentions are completely innocent - it's just that I find conversation flows much better with women. This is no longer acceptable - I have to learn how to become a "man's man"! Maybe I should start buying car magazines, take up fishing and start supporting a football team

 

Thanks for the answer and comments Jenkins. I'm glad that you are thinking of my comments re: PMs and such...it can be a slippery slope. I am thinking of one situation in particular, a BH who was the most anti-affair person...and he admitted to an EA begun through LS. It was an unfortunate situation for everyone, and I'm sure the BH didn't go into it thinking it was going to be an A, but it did and people got hurt. Which leads me to...yes, you may have to change some of your own behaviors, like the flirting. It is a consequence of your actions. I used to be more friendly and smiling to guys in general, now I am more guarded. My walls are higher, boundaries stronger, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I had this one guy friend and after d-day my H said I could no longer be friends with him. I was mad...how dare he? But when I thought about it, H was right. While there had been no EA/PA or anything, the boundaries were a bit blurred. Luckily our paths didn't cross as much and the friendship faded. Now my guy friends are through my H which is fine with me.

 

My H and I are over six years out from d-day. I am thankful every day he gave me another chance, and with his support I've become a much happier and healthier person. I am seriously one lucky girl.

[jenkins95]

Thanks for the answer and comments Jenkins. I'm glad that you are thinking of my comments re: PMs and such...it can be a slippery slope. I am thinking of one situation in particular, a BH who was the most anti-affair person...and he admitted to an EA begun through LS. It was an unfortunate situation for everyone, and I'm sure the BH didn't go into it thinking it was going to be an A, but it did and people got hurt. Which leads me to...yes, you may have to change some of your own behaviors, like the flirting. It is a consequence of your actions. I used to be more friendly and smiling to guys in general, now I am more guarded. My walls are higher, boundaries stronger, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I had this one guy friend and after d-day my H said I could no longer be friends with him. I was mad...how dare he? But when I thought about it, H was right. While there had been no EA/PA or anything, the boundaries were a bit blurred. Luckily our paths didn't cross as much and the friendship faded. Now my guy friends are through my H which is fine with me.

 

My H and I are over six years out from d-day. I am thankful every day he gave me another chance, and with his support I've become a much happier and healthier person. I am seriously one lucky girl.

 

Inspirational words Bittersweetie! And so glad to hear of a marriage which genuinely seems to have survived an A and come out the other side - that says and awful lot about you H, but also about you, and of course of the bond between you, which you both felt was worth saving, and was strong enough to survive. What better role model than you for me to follow! Thanks so much for all your advice and support.

 

What you wrote stunned me. How cruel and ironic that an EA actually started on LS. The last thing either partner was looking for. It just emphasises your point that we must keep our guard up at all times.

 

Good luck !

[jenkins95]

Hi burnt!

 

Finally, I get to reply to your post of weeks ago!

 

It is an excellent post that has really made me reflect, analyse and think over aspects of my affair and you have written it in a wonderful, supportive, non-judgemental way! I really appreciate that burnt - I always love your writing style. I've been pondering over your post for a long time and wanted to find an occasion where I could really give your thoughts and queries my full attention. Annoyingly, just as I was getting into my stride, a work issue have come up and I'm only about half done! I'm going to send what I have done so far and then do a part 2 soon!

 

(my post) suggests that you are still in the residue of the affair if you believe that you will think of her everyday.

 

The way it works, is the constant intrusive thoughts die down in time--from every waking second, to every hour, to every day, to every other day, to a few times a week, to once in a while between months, to finally:

"wow, just saw something that made me think of that OW from years ago; it's incredible how rarely she crosses my mind now"

 

That is the true reality of a break--any break up.

Over time, things fade.

 

You are right burnt, and I am starting to notice the difference now. Gradually, very gradually things are fading and hurt less. But, and sorry to turn this comment on to you, can't you apply the same logic to your own situation? From your posts it is obvious how much he damaged you and how difficult it is for you to move on even over a year later. Can you have faith in the very words you wrote yourself to me just here and know that obe day you will be free?

 

Sadly, even if you were a member of this LS site, *before* your affair, would you have listened to anyone's warning about the effect of an affair?

I think it's one of those things in life, that the only way discover the effect of an affair is to experience it in first person.

 

This is a very enlightening thought burnt. When I consider whether my cations would have been different had I visited LS first, my instant reaction is "Yes, of course it would". But perhaps it's not so clear cut. Now I am thinking with my "sensible" head, not my "affair" head and I have witnessed the true consequences of an affair as I hadn't before D-day. I think you are right. Even late in the affair when things started to fall apart, much of my initial research efforts on the web and posting here was a case of looking for what I wanted to hear. Other stuff I conveniently read over, ignored or put to the back of my mind. Also, with my "affair" head on, there's no way I would have come here anyway. I was nowhere near level headed enough. I was too busy enjoying myself in the fog. That's one reason why I am always impressed (but also a little unnerved and surprised) when cheaters come here for advice at a much earlier stage than I did - before things have started to go wrong all around them. One thing that I comfort myself with is that I was totally "lost", but these cheaters, by coming here, show that they have at least one foot still in reality.

 

Yes, there are many people who make the decision to cheat.

But most of the posts I read here are from people, including you, are people who suddenly "find themselves" in the affair. They didn't fully realize what they got themselves into.

 

Yes, it sounds like the ultimate pathetic excuse, an almost insulting side step away from responsibility, but it genuinely felt like that. One minute I was having some innocent flirtations with a nice girl, it felt a little but naughty but nothing more.....and the next minute - well, you know the rest! Of course, this pathetic excuse will get no cheater anywhere when facing the BS - or these boards, we have to look much deeper than that and face responsibility full on - and there is indeed much to be found deeper. We ARE fully responsible for our actions. But on the surface, as it was all unfolding, it really did feel like that! Like I was almost a passenger in a fatalistic set of events!

 

Would I be incorrect to say, on some subconscious level you actually didn't want anyone from here to ask you to stop? I am asking, because there are times I want to post something, but then I don't because I know I actually don't want to hear people telling me the right thing to do. A part of me wants to keep doing what I'm doing. Mind is a tricky thing.

 

Yes! very perceptive of you burnt - and it ties in with what I said above:

 

"I think you are right. Even late in the affair when things started to fall apart, much of my initial research efforts on the web and posting here was a case of looking for what I wanted to hear. Other stuff I conveniently read over, ignored or put to the back of my mind."

 

It is so true,and it is only with hindsight and the "normalisation" of my own mind that I now see it. Of course, I didn't consciously know it, but when I posted my first thread in August last year, I think I wanted sympathy, understanding, validation and for someone to put an arm round me and tell me everything would be all right more than to be told to stop what I was doing immediately.

 

This is so interesting. My xMM did the same thing again and again. Putting me in the position to pull the plug. Indirectly asking me to be one to end it so that he didn't have to.

 

Being the one to have to end it was hell. I'm not sure I'd ever ended a relationship before, although I've been dumped many times. It was HORRIBLE. She knew that I wanted her to make it easier for me, walk away or end it herself, but she wouldn't do it and she even told me that very clearly. I had already annoyed her a lot with my weakness and she was determined to make me stand up and take responsibility at least on this.

 

1. What if you didn't have a D-day? How do you think it all would have played out? If you didn't have to see the pain in your wife's face, what shape or form would the affair take on in the long run?

 

Before D-days, I had already got to the stage that the negatives were far outweighing the positives. I never "went off" the OW - she remained the same, but I gradually realised more and more what I was doing, the risks I was taking, the duality, the cheating, the regret, the stress, the paranoia. Months before D-days, it was already keeping me up at night and I knew I wanted it to end. But I was weak,and I was an escapist - our meetings were still such fun that I allowed myself to just escape into them and take comfort in the "bubble". But when I was on my own or my family, that's when life became increasingly stressful and difficult. I was very much a "Let's have that conversation tomorrow" kind of guy. I regret not finishing the affair as soon as I realised that I wanted it to end. I tried to, but I was far too "softly, softly" about it, and as soon as she cried (and she could cry quite easily), it did something to me and I just wanted to comfort her - complete stupidity on my part.

2. Do you think you would have ever found the peace in your mind, if the affair ended but your wife didn't find out? Do you think it would have been better if there was NO D-day?

 

Oh burnt, what a question! This question, or a variation of it, is one of the most controversial and divisive issues in the "affair" domain. In fact, you raising this question is the reason I have taken so long to respond to your post. I originally planned a very long reply where I discussed the whole "should I or shouldn't I disclose" debate, about how I can see both sides, etc. But I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to sit on the fence, I will tell it exactly as it is ...TO BE CONTINUED - WORK EMERGENCY. BACK SOON

 

3. Chronologically, it sounds like, after the D-day you still were in contact with OW; how did you wife react to that?

 

4. ** Most importantly, (as I am really curious…) I wonder how you'd start to feel about OW a few years from now.

 

There are couple of xMMs who talk about their former OW--the words are truly cruel in the way they now see the xOW.

 

(Again, thank you for taking the time to start this thread; if some of my words sound critical of you, they aren't meant to be.)

[SummerDreams]

I'm really happily surprised you are back jenkins and of course really happy that you seem to be doing good with your life. I was worried when you disappeared from LS back in September and I hoped you were OK. So here you are again and here I am again.

 

One thing I wanted to ask though is, I remember you talking back then about the cultural differences you have with your wife and how you used to feel she was making all the decisions regarding the way the kids would be raised and you were feeling bad about it. You said she is making efforts now to change things and I wanted to ask, has she aknowledged her mistakes in your marriage that maybe have led you to having an affair? Has she helped you with your depression issues? Has she tried to change her views regarding the raising of the kids and the fact that you have a say in this as well? And most importantly I remember well I was "pushing" you to see some therapist. Did you do that?

 

Anyway I'm glad you are happy in your life now and that you found the strength to get out of this fog you were into and move on fixing things. But I don't agree with what you said, that you'll spend all your life making up to your family cause of the affair. A relationship needs to be between equal partners. If the one part feels guilty all the time and feels the need to make up for their past mistakes, I think it becomes more of a punishment and guilt relationship and that's not fair for anyone involved. I suggest you discuss things with your wife, admit your mistakes, let her admit hers and try and leave this incident behind. I find this to be the best way to a good relationship.

 

(ps sorry for the many (I'm sure) mistakes, I haven't written in here for a long time and I think my english has become worse than it was )

[alsudduth]

Original Poster: Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to read right at this moment. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[SummerDreams]

I am wondering why you didn't reply to my post...