Why do catholic believe in saints went gods does not like it?

[nightwish33150]

Why do catholic believe in saints went gods does not like it?

 

if you can recall but after moses had saved the jews. he had place them in the desert well after year i believe 40 he returned to his people becuz of god tolled him to well when he gets her the jews are worshiping a golden calf so moses breaks the two stone and become angry with the peole and ask why have they worshipn a golden calf before god they respond in saying that they want a god they can see

so the quote goes EXODUS 34:13

 

Break down thier altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their asherah poles.14 Do Not worship any other god, for the lord, whose name is jealous, is a jealous god."

 

so if god does not like any sort of firgure before him why worship them ? why go to a wooden, gold or brownze or whatever it made out of doll for help wouldn't you go to god the all mighty for help

 

not sure were in those passage but i forgot but god say that " they have ears but can they hear you, they have a mouth but do they speak, they have eye but they don't see..etc" which is very true so why porblem with them

go to god even better

is that image or saint going to cure you when your on ur sick ?

so why problem?

[moimeme]

Saints aren't considered gods. They aren't worshipped. They're like messengers to God. Since they're already in Heaven, they are prayed to to sort of 'carry a message to God' for you.

[nightwish33150]

there not messenger becuz we choose them not godd why are the disiples saints then?

so explian to me why they carry images off them and pray to them instand of god do't tell me you neer seen people in there house with these doll s i'm srry that u hold thing thing on ur death bed when u should be praying to god for repent and the catholic church is a joke bcuz when u commit a sin there like ok cunfuss to the priest in private an then go do 10mary and so on and thats it ur forgiven

like i can rape someone go o the catholic church priet and be for given so easy with no remorse

[moimeme]

There are plenty of places you can go to inform yourself about the Catholic church. I recommend that you read and learn rather than just going on what you hear.

[quankanne]

grrrr ... I shouldn't bite, because I know someone is trolling here, but because I know how much MISinformation there is concerning Catholicism, so here goes:

 

"Saints" are those holy men and women of God who have been formally been recognized by the Catholic Church. She doesn't encourage people to worship then, but gives us role models of faith, if you will. Those people who converse with these people of God often do so to ask for their prayers, because we figure these folks can carry our petitions to God since they have already shown us how close they are to Him. The apostles were the first followers of Christ, and we recognize them as saints because of how they defended the newly found Christian faith in a time when no one understood it.

 

we don't "pray to" statues or images, though we we're okay with displaying those statues or photos of our prayer pals much in the same way a proud grandparent will keep the latest photos of the grandbabies on hand. Up until this last century, there was no way to photograph those holy men and women, except through paintings and other bulky images.

 

u hold thing thing on ur death bed when u should be praying to god

 

we ARE praying to God ... and asking one of his beloved saints to pray alongside with us for a happy (grace-filled) death. It's no different than asking my best friend or my mom or someone on a prayer chain to pray for me.

 

for repent and the catholic church is a joke bcuz when u commit a sin there like ok cunfuss to the priest in private an then go do 10mary and so on and thats it ur forgiven like i can rape someone go o the catholic church priest and be for given so easy with no remorse

 

a priest is trained to hear confessions, and can pretty much tell a snow job from someone's sincere desire to reconcile with God. It's been awhile since I've made gone to confession, but I know that prayers are only part of penance -- the priest has almost always has given me a penance that involves true reparation -- his role as spiritual advisor calls for helping people heal the relationship with the person who was hurt or offended or wronged. And that's much, much tougher than a dozen novenas because it calls for a true conversion of heart.

[moimeme]

I don't think it's someone trolling. I think it's a person who knows zero about Catholicism and is spouting rumours or other ideas s/he's heard or, worse, believes just because.

 

It would take a few hundred thousand words to educate this person about all s/he doesn't know so I figured a link to everything about Catholicism ought to give them something to chew on.

[quankanne]

something about the way the content is presented (spelling aside) makes me wonder about this being posted by a troll ... but oh, well ... I took the bait ....

 

I guess this isn't the place to talk about hiding St. Anthony in the freezer or burying St. Joseph in the yard, is it?

[moimeme]

I guess this isn't the place to talk about hiding St. Anthony in the freezer or burying St. Joseph in the yard, is it?

 

Um. They're dead. Man, I'd heard you Texans were wierd but I had no idea how wierd

[Naive]

My father's family is Catholic and my grandmother was a firm believer of this religion so I know some about it. I have never seen it right that they would ask saints to pray for them because I believe that God is fair and hears us all the same. We are all equal and the only one whom is greater than us is God. I do not need someone to pray for me because I know that I can easily do it for myself and he will hear me no matter where I am or when I do it. Another thing, I also disagree with the fact that they ask a priest to ask forgiveness for their sins because I am sure that if you do it on your own and you really do feel bad and repent about what you did God will forgive you. There is no need for an intermediate because we are all God's children's and he will not have a preference. For example, if you do something bad and you then send your brother to ask your parents for forgiveness because he is more disciplined than you it will not make it okay or better. It would be much better if the kid that did the harm asked for forgiveness if he really means it, don't you think?

 

This is my way of thinking, however, I never told my grandmother because I respected her beliefs and nothing would change mine. Maybe I am wrong maybe she was.

 

Even though my faith is a little shaken at the moment I still believe firmly what I typed above.

[moimeme]

I do not need someone to pray for me because I know that I can easily do it for myself and he will hear me no matter where I am or when I do it

 

True, but don't you ask your friends or family to pray for you? Never hurts to have a few more voices

 

For example, if you do something bad and you then send your brother to ask your parents for forgiveness because he is more disciplined than you it will not make it okay or better

 

It's not that we ask the priest to forgive us or to ask on our behalf. The priest is like the tour director - gives you some direction, helps show you the way.

 

I once went on a guided retreat. Truth to tell, I didn't want any guidance whatsoever. I had a bunch of reading I wanted to do and a lot of thinking planned and I didn't really want some nun telling me holy stuff. However one of the conditons of my staying at this place was that I see a spiritual director at least once a day so I did. Well, this lady prayed for direction about me, she told me. I didn't say very much to her, being resistant to direction and all that, but that lady discussed several of the things I had been there to think over - without me ever having told her that's why I was there! Before I left I thanked her and told her how she'd hit many of the things I was pondering dead on.

 

It's great to have a personal relationship with God, but it doesn't mean you have to go it entirely alone.

[BlockHead]

Numbers 21:6-9

6 Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.

 

8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

I believe this is used to justify the use of religious statues in Catholicism.

[moimeme]

I believe this is used to justify the use of religious statues in Catholicism.

 

And you believe incorrectly.

[HokeyReligions]

Numbers 21:6-9

6 Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.

 

8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

 

Originally posted by BlockHead

I believe this is used to justify the use of religious statues in Catholicism.

 

I remember reading something about setting snakes among people, but I don't remember the second section at all - about the snake on a pole.

 

That would be an example of the use of symbolism for any faith I guess. The statue is not worshiped, its just a reminder to focus prayers.

 

Wait, is this one of the battle metaphors's and the 'snake' is really the head of the traitor or enemy?

[quankanne]

Um. They're dead. Man, I'd heard you Texans were wierd but I had no idea how wierd

 

 

i'd never heard of those strange customs either, until I came to work for the church. My coworker told me about both -- said her sweet little Italian NY granny just loved St. Anthony, whose prayers she believed interceded when her beloved child (my coworker's dad) had an earache that went away when doctors couldn't even figure out a cure. Sue said that when her granny got mad at St. Anthony for not following through, she'd put his statue in the freezer to punish him!

 

burying a statue of St. Joe (and sprinkling miraculous medals on your lawn) were also something she told me about. Apparently if you're trying to sell your home, the buried St. Joe statue does the trick (remember, he had to get out of Bethlehem in a hurry -- the statues were very, very popular in Houston in the 1980s when the oil industry went bust and people had to sell their homes); the Marian medals help you purchase the property you have your eye. Don't know about the first, but I can personally vouch for the medals' intercessory power: I tossed some on farm we ended up winning in a sealed bid, and they're in the flowerbed of the house we close on later this week.

 

other custom I've heard of is keeping a medal of St. Christopher in your car for safe travel -- have also seen people place cards or medallions of angels there, too.

 

blocky, the way I heard statues and paintings of saints explained was that there were no cameras around in the days of Peter, really pretty much until recently. And now especially that we're living in a media-oriented age, photos of Mother Teresa, Father Damian, and John Paul II are common items.

[moimeme]

Sue said that when her granny got mad at St. Anthony for not following through, she'd put his statue in the freezer to punish him!

 

Oh that's cute!

 

other custom I've heard of is keeping a medal of St. Christopher in your car for safe travel

 

Yeah but St. Christopher got de-sainted! A whole passel of saints got de-saintified some years ago.

[Naive]

Why would they get de-santified?

[nightwish33150]

Originally posted by moimeme

Oh that's cute!

 

 

 

Yeah but St. Christopher got de-sainted! A whole passel of saints got de-saintified some years ago.

 

 

you see the catholic church doesn't even know what there doing or how the saints got there

[millefiori]

Originally posted by moimeme

Yeah but St. Christopher got de-sainted! A whole passel of saints got de-saintified some years ago.

You mean, THE St. Christopher who carried the Jesus child over the river??

[nightwish33150]

what about the raping what does that say about that, how can some one of that preach to the church to that to some one then , the churchs go that they are only human and that any one can comit a crime like that , but how can some one of that high place in the church do that

 

your goign to reply "but were only human any one can commit a crime like that " wtf a priest?

they should know better then to do that

 

i would understand if a druggie did that to a kid , there on drug out of there mind , and don't know any better cuz there life is in chaos.

 

but a priest should know better then to do that but ur goign to fame on me 4 saying his becuz ur brainwashed

 

ur so in to proving ur religion

i''m sure u will ask me what's my religion since i seem to act like im right

how do i know ur is corrupt because they support thing that sure not be done like dance is a sin, unmarried sex is a sin (even with a condom), hellowen is against god because ur celebrating evil by dresing up in customs that are to scare people which gods does not like , festivals which here in miami there calle ocho were celebrates hispanic god does not support that and isn't it funny how alot of catholics end up change there belief turn other religion it's a eak religion. and i have seen how the pope is gloried dress so high class your church filled with gold and high class things when there children out there dying and there poor community around the world and yes my church is not rich like urs and yes we do send thing that people need in third world county's need like in centrsl america, yes the pope did help out in the berlin wall but that's just one thing the pope should be doing more, then just give world tour and s*** , u support anything and not realize it.

 

 

it's sad to see how closed mind u are. u will said as a reply u don't try any other religion

i do list to other religions and see what there doing when a jehovah witness come to my place i'm more happy to take a booklet and read it because i'm not close mind , yeah there is catholic that are open but not many , u just focus on ur self not care about how others see the biblia, i think u people are scare about the true and that ur damn in dante's inferno 4 a eternity. u would not see out ur religion becuz u know that it's easy to be in becuz u commit any thing and it ok u confuss and move on but god does not want a one day of repent he wants true repent where a person learns from it and ask 4 forgiven allthe time

 

 

 

 

yeah u must be like o whats so bad about dancing, and dressing up in customs it also pagan thing which god does not like

[nightwish33150]

but who im i to say i'm a sinner too

i done thing were i still feel bad about and prayed for forgiveness

 

i known i might sound narrowmind to some

[smile95]

I had to laugh reading these. My g-ma prays to St. Anthony ALL the time and he always comes thru . Also I think it was St. Joseph? That my parents buried in the yard of BOTH their houses and they sold in a week each.

[HokeyReligions]

At first reading I was offended at your post, but I'm going to respond as best I can because I think more than anything, there may be a language barrier and it's not meant as bashing a religion. If English is not your natural language, kudos to you for learning!

 

Originally posted by nightwish33150

what about the raping what does that say about that, how can some one of that preach to the church to that to some one then , the churchs go that they are only human and that any one can comit a crime like that , but how can some one of that high place in the church do that

 

your goign to reply "but were only human any one can commit a crime like that " wtf a priest?

they should know better then to do that

 

i would understand if a druggie did that to a kid , there on drug out of there mind , and don't know any better cuz there life is in chaos.

 

but a priest should know better then to do that but ur goign to fame on me 4 saying his becuz ur brainwashed

 

Criminals come from all backgrounds. The faith and/or devotion of an individual does not guarantee a sin-free life. There have been rapists and murderers and thieves from every religion. Right now there is a Baptist Minister on trial for several murders he was accused of committing back in 1964. Leaders become so, they are not born so.

 

There are stereotypical 'clean-cut' people out there with fantastic educations, degrees, financial success, pillars of the community who have committed horrible crimes -- and they never took an illegal drug.

 

IMO all organized religions are a brainwashing of sorts. If you had been raised in an Islamic area and all you were ever taught was the Muslim belief, chances are you would also be Muslim. Catholics, Baptists, Buddhists, etc. are the same. We believe what we are taught as children and as we grow and explore for ourselves we may change our faith. Faith in a Deity is personal and organizations like churches are simply a way for people to worship. A blue-print for their soul, otherwise they might become lost in the turmoil of human society and earthly stress and pressure.

 

ur so in to proving ur religion

 

Isn't everyone who has a strong faith supportive and defensive of their faith? That's part of faith - sharing it and supporting it, and sometimes defending it against mis-information that is spread about it.

 

i''m sure u will ask me what's my religion since i seem to act like im right

 

I don't need or want to know your faith. If it is right for you that is all that matters.

 

how do i know ur is corrupt because they support thing that sure not be done like dance is a sin, unmarried sex is a sin (even with a condom), hellowen is against god because ur celebrating evil by dresing up in customs that are to scare people which gods does not like , festivals which here in miami there calle ocho were celebrates hispanic god does not support that and isn't it funny how alot of catholics end up change there belief turn other religion it's a eak religion.

 

I'm not sure what you mean "eak religion." You don't know if an individual is corrupt, no one does. We don't know if you are corrupt either. Human society creates all the festivals and celebration and some are frowned upon by various churches; others are ignored; others are supported. All Hallows Eve has morphed into a financial boon or celebration for business and has little to do with religion. Those that believe it violates some commandment or belief in their God do not practice it. Others see it for what it is; a harmless childhood diversion that can be fun and stimulate imagination and its also good for discussing religion and beliefs and faith. Some cultures celebrate the Day of the Dead where they will honor their ancestors with a celebration that includes things like candy skeletons and something called Dead Mans Bread. It is the opposite of worshiping the devil, it honors the souls of their forebears and includes prayers of thanks to God.

 

and i have seen how the pope is gloried dress so high class your church filled with gold and high class things when there children out there dying and there poor community around the world and yes my church is not rich like urs and yes we do send thing that people need in third world county's need like in centrsl america, yes the pope did help out in the berlin wall but that's just one thing the pope should be doing more, then just give world tour and s*** , u support anything and not realize it.

 

Look through some of the other faith-based posts in this forum where others have addressed the reasons some churches are so rich in material things. It's very interesting and informative. The Catholic church also cares for the needy in many, many ways. All you see on TV is the Vatican and the ceremony and the riches of a church because it makes for good TV; showing the work that they do isn't as entertaining. I've seen some pretty wealthy and elaborate churches of other sects of Christianity. One of the Baptists churches here recently bought a sports arena because the church wasn't large enough to hold everyone and it cost millions. Churches may have some tax exempt status, but they still need money to run.

 

People who want to give to their church because of their love for God give what they can and often what is important to them. It's today's version of the sacrificial lamb.

 

 

it's sad to see how closed mind u are. u will said as a reply u don't try any other religion

 

This is rather rude. I don't know that Catholics are any more close-minded than any other person with a devout faith. Many Catholics leave their church and many people join the Church. It's not close-minded at all.

 

 

i do list to other religions and see what there doing when a jehovah witness come to my place i'm more happy to take a booklet and read it because i'm not close mind , yeah there is catholic that are open but not many , u just focus on ur self not care about how others see the biblia, i think u people are scare about the true and that ur damn in dante's inferno 4 a eternity. u would not see out ur religion becuz u know that it's easy to be in becuz u commit any thing and it ok u confuss and move on but god does not want a one day of repent he wants true repent where a person learns from it and ask 4 forgiven allthe time

 

If you would explore and learn more about the religion instead of listening to what others say about it you might be a little more open-minded about it yourself. Catholics do not focus on themselves any more than any other religion. JW's seem to me to be more close-minded than any. And there are many, many Catholics who are deeply saddened that they are seen differently from other Christians. Remember, Catholics believe in the same God and Jesus that other Christians believe in. Their priests do NOT forgive sin -- that is up to God. The priest is only an instrument that Catholics employ to help them in their communications with God. I used to think that way too so I can understand that. It's a misconception that priests forgive sin.

 

You can't say who will or will not go to Heaven or Hell. Only God can do that. It's rather arrogant to attempt to speak for God. Priests don't even do that. They help people stay on the path to redemption by giving them tools to stay focused. It's up to the individual to be sincere and have a relationship with God.

 

There are some Baptist churches that believe once baptized, always baptized -- no matter how many crimes against humanity or against God they commit after the baptism. I don't buy that either.

 

BTW: just for your edification, my user name HokeyReligions is not a slam on religions - it is from a line in a movie. Star Wars - the original. Also, I am not a Catholic, I am agnostic, but I respect other people's beliefs and I will not bash them or put them down or make fun of them. I would rather try to understand them.

 

 

yeah u must be like o whats so bad about dancing, and dressing up in customs it also pagan thing which god does not like

You can't speak for God. He or She might like a good celebration too. There are bits in the Bible that talk about dancing and singing in glory for the Lord.

[quankanne]

Whew, Hokey, you just gave him/her/it a good bit of my mind ... very kind o you to save me the typing!!!

 

your goign to reply "but were only human any one can commit a crime like that " wtf a priest? they should know better then to do that

 

as a cradle Catholic who now works with priests, I ask the same question: how could someone use their authority to abuse the people who are taught from childhood to respect their elders, that Father is never wrong, to never question someone in authority. It sickens me just as much as it does you, but it saddens me as well, because here are men --- and women -- who consecrated themselves to Christ, offering to follow him and to care for his people, but chose to screw it up, bigtime. They not only give their fellow religious a black eye, but they perpetuate the horrible things people grow up believing about the Church.

 

why do I defend her? because my church is my legacy, she is my gift and she is my best expression of faith. Just because she upholds unpopular teachings (no sex before marriage, no same sex relationships, no abortion, no birth control) doesn't mean she's wrong or bad – she's just determined to keep the faith going for another 2000 years. And that's a long, long time staying true to doctrine ...

 

yes we drink and we dance, but we also have been taught that those things are to be enjoyed in moderation, not abused because the ABUSE of these actions is what's sinful.

 

I don't worry about what faith background you are, because believer or not, I consider you a child of the God I love, so I'm trying my best to edify you. What does worry me is the rabid tone your posts reflect, because I'm beginning to wonder if you truly want to engage in dialogue or just openly and loudly damn Catholics all to hell because you don't like what we profess to believe ...

 

==

 

re St. Christopher: I've heard conflicting versions of what's happened to him. One is that his feast day was simply dropped from the calendar to make room for someone else. The other is that it is suspected that he is a conglomation of different people, but given one identity (Christopher). Not sure which it is, I'll have to remember to ask at work tomorrow.

[GUEST]

I always wondered how the catholic church justified all the glitter and sparkle. I mean, with the robes and the crowns and the jewels and the gold ornaments. I guess I always thought the teachings of jesus frowned on these things, material possessions and such. Before you attack me, I dont pretend to be a biblical scholar, I know what I learned from going to sunday school as a kid. It just seems like a great big custome party and the fabric from which they dress themselves is always man made.

[moimeme]

Actually, if you have a look at history books, you'll see that many of the robes they wear now are actually patterned after clothes that were worn centuries ago. They just didn't change the style over time.

 

You won't see any clergy wearing jewellery or crowns. The pictures of Jesus or Mary sometimes show crown-type things to depict their role as leaders but it's just a form of honour.

the fabric from which they dress themselves is always man made.

 

Huh? What would you have them wear - grass skirts?