Overwhelmed - MM has ended our affair

[ladydesigner]

Pilli, I have been here. My xMM was contemplating divorce and said he wanted to be with me because he was so incredibly happy with me. He also did counseling with his wife. All that is great, but I needed to think of my future, independent of what the outcome was for him. I broke up with him, and during that conversation (which was like 4 hrs long!), he expected me to "support him through it all, including the divorce process that [he]was researching." The thing is, I didn't want his decision-making tainted by my advice at all -- his decision was his to make, free from any external influence on what the right path was for him. He is a grown man, a professional, a father...he is capable of making his own decisions. Another thing is, he needed to leave because HE wanted to, regardless of whether I was waiting for him or not.

 

Your MM says that he needs to figure this out for himself, yet he continues to talk to you about it. Look, I know what it's like to want to be there for someone you love, but you cannot be his emotional crutch. If I were in your position, I would reiterate that this is falling into EA category/using you as an emotional crutch, without much consideration of your own well-being and that he needs to do this independently. It's hard as hell - my xMM made feel very guilty for "abandoning" him, but I needed to go into self preservation mode. Protect your heart and focus on your personal and professional goals and what you envision your life to be in the next month, year, and 10+ years.

 

What a bunch of wussies that they need the OW's support to get them through a D. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine!

[ShatteredLady]

"What a bunch of wussies that they need the OW's support to get them through a D. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine!"

 

A strong, confident man who isn't terrified of confrontation & change wouldn't be existing in a miserable marriage & dragging another woman into his mess!

 

He would of raised & discussed problems in his marriage from the start & tried to fix them. If things continued to disintegrate despite his best efforts he would of divorced & moved on with his life BEFORE dating.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that these men only have the balls to contemplate divorce BECAUSE of the OW!! If they didn't have a soft place to land they wouldn't be going anywhere! They NEED the OW to hold their hand. Welcome to the world of weak, conflict avoidant men!

[sandylee1]

"What a bunch of wussies that they need the OW's support to get them through a D. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine!"

 

A strong, confident man who isn't terrified of confrontation & change wouldn't be existing in a miserable marriage & dragging another woman into his mess!

 

He would of raised & discussed problems in his marriage from the start & tried to fix them. If things continued to disintegrate despite his best efforts he would of divorced & moved on with his life BEFORE dating.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that these men only have the balls to contemplate divorce BECAUSE of the OW!! If they didn't have a soft place to land they wouldn't be going anywhere! They NEED the OW to hold their hand. Welcome to the world of weak, conflict avoidant men!

 

You're spot on.

[Pili-Pala]

Pilli, I have been here. My xMM was contemplating divorce and said he wanted to be with me because he was so incredibly happy with me. He also did counseling with his wife. All that is great, but I needed to think of my future, independent of what the outcome was for him. I broke up with him, and during that conversation (which was like 4 hrs long!), he expected me to "support him through it all, including the divorce process that [he]was researching." The thing is, I didn't want his decision-making tainted by my advice at all -- his decision was his to make, free from any external influence on what the right path was for him. He is a grown man, a professional, a father...he is capable of making his own decisions. Another thing is, he needed to leave because HE wanted to, regardless of whether I was waiting for him or not.

 

Your MM says that he needs to figure this out for himself, yet he continues to talk to you about it. Look, I know what it's like to want to be there for someone you love, but you cannot be his emotional crutch. If I were in your position, I would reiterate that this is falling into EA category/using you as an emotional crutch, without much consideration of your own well-being and that he needs to do this independently. It's hard as hell - my xMM made feel very guilty for "abandoning" him, but I needed to go into self preservation mode. Protect your heart and focus on your personal and professional goals and what you envision your life to be in the next month, year, and 10+ years.

 

Hi Lovetoohard. I take it your xMM never divorced then?

 

You are so right. This absolutely is becoming an EA and when we agreed we were not getting back into A that should have meant an EA as much as (if not even more then) it meant a PA. So perhaps I need to say this every time the conversation turns in this direction and be consistent in that.

 

It is so hard to turn my back on him, especially as I can see he is trying so hard. Therapy is completely out of his comfort zone and it's absolutely clear to me that he is going to it for me. He told me several times that he wants to work to be a better man, and I can see he is working through some painful stuff. He really is trying to sort himself out. But I am quite realistic that the end result of this could be he works on himself enough to stay and fix his M, and you are absolutely right that he needs to make these decisions / this progress on his own. As much as I am trying to stay out of his decisions etc. just by being there I am involved and influencing. It's not good for him or me.

 

Yes, I need to see this as the beginnings of an EA and perhaps that might determine me to be resolute that I need to move on from this, as otherwise I am doing precisely what I was adamant I wouldn't do (I.e. Get back into an A of any type).

[Pili-Pala]

What a bunch of wussies that they need the OW's support to get them through a D. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine!

 

"What a bunch of wussies that they need the OW's support to get them through a D. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine!"

 

A strong, confident man who isn't terrified of confrontation & change wouldn't be existing in a miserable marriage & dragging another woman into his mess!

 

He would of raised & discussed problems in his marriage from the start & tried to fix them. If things continued to disintegrate despite his best efforts he would of divorced & moved on with his life BEFORE dating.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that these men only have the balls to contemplate divorce BECAUSE of the OW!! If they didn't have a soft place to land they wouldn't be going anywhere! They NEED the OW to hold their hand. Welcome to the world of weak, conflict avoidant men!

 

You are both right of course. But it's really hard to be so damning when your xMM recgonises this in himself and is actually taking action (therapy) to deal with this. Especially when you know it's a hugely difficult step for him to have taken to go to therapy and stick with it. I am sure a lot of people will say it's the manipulation of the selfish MM! But I know this was a big thing for him and I can't see him putting himself through it as some big game play.

 

I also recognise my own flaws, and why I got myself into an A with a MM in the first place, and I have worked and continue to work on that. Let's be fair here, it's not always just down to the manipulative, selfish MM and his skills in seduction! ...or certainly not in my case. So I find it hard to completely dismiss someone due to mistakes they made - otherwise what is to say anyone decent should ever be with someone like me if at one stage in my life I was capable of making these choices to be in an A?!

 

So to me it's not so black and white when people are trying to accept things about themselves and change for the better.

 

I do wish sometimes though that it was black and white as it's much easier to take decisive action on black and whites. Grey decision making can be just so wishy washy. It's easier to hate the bad guy

[Cymbeline]

Pili Pala, you say I have missed your point. I'm sure I have. I am projecting a lot from my own experience. But I expect I am twice your age and I've lived a life among dynamic, successful people in a variety of exciting location where affairs are an easy and attractive option for many and my experience is that your experience is very common.

 

I do not say that your MM is deliberately manipulative, although that is the outcome of his behaviour. I am sure he is genuinely confused and upset. I doubt that he set out to be a husband and father who has indulged in three affairs. I believe he is working on his flaws and I know it won't be easy to face up to himself. You will be the only sympathetic and admiring ear he has just now and you will be hard to give up.

 

It's just that so many OW feel as you do about all this. Especially single OW who haven't experience the complexities of marriage. And so do many wives, because the point I have tried to make before in this thread is that the conversations he has with his wife will be different to those he has with you.

 

I don't know why. Perhaps it is the extreme compartmentalising they practice, but I am suggesting he may well feel the things he says to you. I am sure his wife's distress makes him feel trapped and horrible and that there is nothing he can do to make his marriage whole again. We're he to stay, he will fear that the shame and memory wil hang over him forever so a new start might be easier. He may also doubt his ability to remain faithful. Yet from his actions, it seems his attachment to his wife remains in some form.

 

I have heard and seen enough evidence to know that my WH s OW could have felt exactly as you do and other OW in situations I have been aware of among friends in the past. I also know that in all except in case case the marriage has continued, sometimes strongly, other times less so. The case that ended in remarriage has an MM who is ceo of a multinational household name company. It isn't by any means a contented marriage.

 

In every case we are talking about highly educated people at the top of their game. I cannot understand why their personal decision making g is so lousy when they are captain of industry/business but there it is.

 

i am not meaning to criticise or upset you. It's just that you reiterate that this affair is different. Maybe it is, and it will end well for you, but if so I'd say the chances of you feeling happy in 5 years time (as well as feeling truly happy in the 5 year interim!) are not awfully high. It seems you have no possibility of breaking away while you are in the office together yet how will youbwirkbtogetherbif you become a couple? And you won't be a 'regular' couple which would be hard enough.

 

He has messed up hugely. His road to self respect and real honesty is going to be long. You sound deeply romantic and loving and I really believe this will encourage you to hang in their to support him when it is the worst decision you could make for yourself.

 

I recall you said there have been a lot of affairs and remarriages a in your family where everything has turned out well and children are fine so you feel things could work. I'm just not sure of this. I wish you well.

[heartwhole]

Hello Pili-Pala, I was wondering how you are doing.

 

Here are my jumbled thoughts:

 

I can see why you are cautiously optimistic. MM seems to have a clear head about how S&D should go, and what is fair to you, and what he needs to work on in himself. That said, he still doesn't seem any more capable of bringing about S&D than he's been this whole time. He tries to move out, but his kids go hysterical. He tries to tell his wife he wants a divorce, but she acts blind-sided. He clearly still lacks the follow-through to go the S&D route unless the wife and kids make it easy on him. Not a good sign that he will actually get to the finish line.

 

I do think you are still in EA territory. Imagine that all of this works out and it's a few years from now and you're married to MM. Do you think it would be appropriate for him to be discussing his marital problems (with you!) with another woman? Sharing all the details of his IC with another woman? Having any sort of secret relationship with another woman? Make it clear that those are boundaries that must be respected, or else prepare yourself for them to broken if/when he's yours as well.

 

FWIW I don't think all this therapy stuff is just him being selfish and manipulative. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there. He's trying to deal with his issues and shore up his weaknesses. Sometimes people really do go from couch-potatoes to marathon runners. Sometimes people really do get sober and stay that way for life. Sometimes people really do look in the mirror and change the stuff they don't like. But it will require similar levels of effort and follow-through to the other accomplishments I've mentioned, so you must be realistic. It's possible, not probable.

 

When he told you that he knew he had to work on himself and that this meant you had to be free to go and he'd just have to hope you'd still be available when this whole process was done, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Of course, ideally he would have done all of this before letting you be his secret mistress, but we can't undo the past so we won't argue about that. It's a step in the right direction. Work on self, realize that clinging to AP is selfish and short-sighted. Now it's your turn to do the same: work on yourself, and realize that being his ear during these 10 weeks is selfish and short-sighted. You need to stop the EA so he can have true clarity about what he wants. There may be a part of you that fears that if you let your intimacy wane, he'll decide to stay in his M. Try not to let that fear take over now. It's in your best interest to step back now. You want to keep your hands clean (from now on) if the marriage ends. You want to know he grew enough to end the M and move on without you holding his hand and promising a soft landing.

 

I think when people point out all the ways he's been conflict-avoidant and flip-flopped before, and his serial cheating, they are not trying to paint him as the sole villain here, but to help you see the negatives that may be getting lost in your hopes and feelings of love. I was always understanding of my WH's weaknesses . . . we all have them. I wasn't even that angry when I found out about the A! It took months for me to realize how unfairly I was dumped on in our dynamic. And then, yes, I got angry. That anger was a catalyst for me to push back against the imbalance in our relationship. It doesn't mean that my WH is hopeless or a completely evil person to my sainted angel. But I did need to see the situation in a new way in order to make it better for all of us. Your MM's history that you've shared is not promising. I don't want you to accept a bad deal out of fear or loneliness. Make him prove he's done the work. It will take a lot longer than 10 weeks, sorry to say. And even discussing the work he's doing on himself right now is an EA.

 

I just think you need to focus on you. Put on your oxygen mask. Reconnect with friends. Take up a hobby. Start a new book. Be the person you want to be even if this is the end.

 

It may not feel like it, but of the two roads ahead of you, the road that leads to you and MM being together will be the harder road for sure. You must both work on yourselves, build trust when you both know the other would have an A, deal with the hysterics of his children and his BW, figure out what to do about him being your boss, etc etc etc. The other road just involves mourning a relationship that was partly based on fantasy and escapism and that may not thrive in the real world. Are you strong enough for the harder road?

[Lovetoohard]

Hi Lovetoohard. I take it your xMM never divorced then?

 

You are so right. This absolutely is becoming an EA and when we agreed we were not getting back into A that should have meant an EA as much as (if not even more then) it meant a PA. So perhaps I need to say this every time the conversation turns in this direction and be consistent in that.

 

It is so hard to turn my back on him, especially as I can see he is trying so hard. Therapy is completely out of his comfort zone and it's absolutely clear to me that he is going to it for me. He told me several times that he wants to work to be a better man, and I can see he is working through some painful stuff. He really is trying to sort himself out. But I am quite realistic that the end result of this could be he works on himself enough to stay and fix his M, and you are absolutely right that he needs to make these decisions / this progress on his own. As much as I am trying to stay out of his decisions etc. just by being there I am involved and influencing. It's not good for him or me.

 

Yes, I need to see this as the beginnings of an EA and perhaps that might determine me to be resolute that I need to move on from this, as otherwise I am doing precisely what I was adamant I wouldn't do (I.e. Get back into an A of any type).

 

Hi Pili,

 

Yes, my xMM (predictably) never divorced. In fact, the whole thing started as an EA over his unhappiness in his marriage and then turned into more. So he went from leaning on me heavily as a friend, which turned into an EA (and eventually PA), and then he was looking into divorcing, but then he resorted to the W + OW dynamic (because he couldn't bear the thought of being a part-time Dad, the financial hit, loss of respect, blah blah, etc.), so that seemed to give him a complete picture of happiness in his mind. Never mind the fact that he wasn’t being fair to anybody else in that picture.

 

After an initial conversation about him conveying unhappiness in his marriage during the early stages of the EA part, I refrained from giving him advice and he didn’t talk further about it. It was simply not my place to discuss those matters. Your intentions are good and they come from a place of deep caring and love, but you absolutely have to assert some boundaries with him. And to be fair, I don’t think your xMM is being manipulative or using you to lean on as he continues to talk to you about this stuff – I just think that he simply doesn’t see the crossroads he is currently at as clearly as you do.

 

When I went to IC early on, my therapist told me that most OW end up as OW because they have poor boundaries to begin with, which is of course, a commonly stated fact. To add to that, some people have a strong tendency to want to “fix” people by nurturing and empathizing. Sure, I understood the notion of poor boundaries and the need to assert strong boundaries that my IC talked about, but I didn’t know how to execute that. I am the kind of person that needs practical tools as a solution, not some touchy feely stuff (which is good too, but that’s not what I needed).

 

Asserting strong boundaries by making it known to your MM that it is no longer appropriate for him to talk to you about his IC, the state of his marriage, his wife, your relationship, etc., does not mean you are “turning your back on him.” You are looking out for your own emotional health and are preventing yourself from being collateral damage. Also, if he still continues to talk to you about it, I would recommend stating your need for stronger boundaries by using words like “I need,” “I want,” “I feel,” “I think” etc., to get into the habit of shifting the focus back onto YOURSELF. Of course, these are just suggestions. I wish I had had some magic formula to navigate through this muck. You have to do what works for your personality and your current dynamic, keeping in mind that you do not want to hurt your work relationship as well. I used to work with my xMM too and doing LC, while making a conscious effort of doing the above seemed to be the only viable solution for me.

 

You cannot extend yourself at your own emotional expense. You’ve given him more support than expected, the the rest is up to him now. A real man doesn’t need coaxing and coddling. A man with a strong conviction to do something in his life will follow through.

 

Wishing you all the best...

[jenkins95]

Incredibly well thought out post heart heartwhole. There speaks experience and wisdom.

 

I sound quite similar in many ways to PP's xMM. I too was in an awful position between a rock and a hard place. I was weak, tried to avoid it, didn't want to let anyone down. Ultimately, my actions could be summed up by heartwhole's last paragraph. If you go down the path of being together, it will definitely be very very hard work with a bomb sir in your midst. For me, I only wanted to go down that path if I was sure that there was no hope for my marriage. Even a slither of hope was worth working on if my W also wanted too. She did and things are going OK. But maybe PP's MM is 100% checked out of the marriage? If he does go for it with PP, it has to be 100% while at the same time doing everything he can to make things as painless as possible on his family. One of the most damaging things I've seen on LS is where the MM is indecisive and moves from one to the other. I really hope he doesn't do that to his W or PP.

 

PP, I know it's so hard, but the best chance I think you've got is to go NC while be sorts things out. You sound like a lovely person - take care of you as others are suggesting. Who knows, maybe one day he will turn up with divorce papers in his hand, but please take care of yourself and get yourself to the point that you will be OK even if that day never arrives.

 

We're here for you.

 

J

 

 

 

 

QUOTE=heartwhole;6898921]Hello Pili-Pala, I was wondering how you are doing.

 

Here are my jumbled thoughts:

 

I can see why you are cautiously optimistic. MM seems to have a clear head about how S&D should go, and what is fair to you, and what he needs to work on in himself. That said, he still doesn't seem any more capable of bringing about S&D than he's been this whole time. He tries to move out, but his kids go hysterical. He tries to tell his wife he wants a divorce, but she acts blind-sided. He clearly still lacks the follow-through to go the S&D route unless the wife and kids make it easy on him. Not a good sign that he will actually get to the finish line.

 

I do think you are still in EA territory. Imagine that all of this works out and it's a few years from now and you're married to MM. Do you think it would be appropriate for him to be discussing his marital problems (with you!) with another woman? Sharing all the details of his IC with another woman? Having any sort of secret relationship with another woman? Make it clear that those are boundaries that must be respected, or else prepare yourself for them to broken if/when he's yours as well.

 

FWIW I don't think all this therapy stuff is just him being selfish and manipulative. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there. He's trying to deal with his issues and shore up his weaknesses. Sometimes people really do go from couch-potatoes to marathon runners. Sometimes people really do get sober and stay that way for life. Sometimes people really do look in the mirror and change the stuff they don't like. But it will require similar levels of effort and follow-through to the other accomplishments I've mentioned, so you must be realistic. It's possible, not probable.

 

When he told you that he knew he had to work on himself and that this meant you had to be free to go and he'd just have to hope you'd still be available when this whole process was done, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Of course, ideally he would have done all of this before letting you be his secret mistress, but we can't undo the past so we won't argue about that. It's a step in the right direction. Work on self, realize that clinging to AP is selfish and short-sighted. Now it's your turn to do the same: work on yourself, and realize that being his ear during these 10 weeks is selfish and short-sighted. You need to stop the EA so he can have true clarity about what he wants. There may be a part of you that fears that if you let your intimacy wane, he'll decide to stay in his M. Try not to let that fear take over now. It's in your best interest to step back now. You want to keep your hands clean (from now on) if the marriage ends. You want to know he grew enough to end the M and move on without you holding his hand and promising a soft landing.

 

I think when people point out all the ways he's been conflict-avoidant and flip-flopped before, and his serial cheating, they are not trying to paint him as the sole villain here, but to help you see the negatives that may be getting lost in your hopes and feelings of love. I was always understanding of my WH's weaknesses . . . we all have them. I wasn't even that angry when I found out about the A! It took months for me to realize how unfairly I was dumped on in our dynamic. And then, yes, I got angry. That anger was a catalyst for me to push back against the imbalance in our relationship. It doesn't mean that my WH is hopeless or a completely evil person to my sainted angel. But I did need to see the situation in a new way in order to make it better for all of us. Your MM's history that you've shared is not promising. I don't want you to accept a bad deal out of fear or loneliness. Make him prove he's done the work. It will take a lot longer than 10 weeks, sorry to say. And even discussing the work he's doing on himself right now is an EA.

 

I just think you need to focus on you. Put on your oxygen mask. Reconnect with friends. Take up a hobby. Start a new book. Be the person you want to be even if this is the end.

 

It may not feel like it, but of the two roads ahead of you, the road that leads to you and MM being together will be the harder road for sure. You must both work on yourselves, build trust when you both know the other would have an A, deal with the hysterics of his children and his BW, figure out what to do about him being your boss, etc etc etc. The other road just involves mourning a relationship that was partly based on fantasy and escapism and that may not thrive in the real world. Are you strong enough for the harder road?

[HelenaS]

Hi Pili-Pala,

I've been following some threads here (including yours) and have just found a new one here on LS that might help you.

The story sounds exactly like yours, but from the MM's side.

It's on the Marriage/Infidelity forum, the title is 'Feeling desperate'.

[SavageQueen]

I think my MM has just ended our affair today for good and I feel totally overwhelmed by a kaleidoscope of emotions that runs from one extreme to the other almost every two minutes - around and around and around. I don't know where else to turn and find myself here.

 

I have read through some of the posts and although I find many of them comforting, I am also finding some of them confusing (and that is not even taking into account that I am struggling to understand a lot of the abbreviations!) and I am starting to find the forum overwhelming in itself and so I thought I would write a thread myself - I hope this is ok. I am not really sure what I am supposed to do.

 

A lot of what I have read on here so far about the end of affairs, it seems to be people who seem to have got it together, I don't know how to get to there. I don't even know where to start. I feel like an idiot and a total cliche. I feel strong that it the best thing for me one minute and then the next I feel so rejected and desperately sad. Please help me.

 

 

 

Take a moment to look at the bigger picture. Your SINGLE. He is a moron. Just like the million other morons out there. He never respected you. He lied. Cheated. Have your words so you get that energy out somehow and be grateful it didn't go any further. I've been married and divorced. The things I know about marriage and relationships and infedility is you can let it ruin you are help you and learn from it. You should be pissed. Go get in a good work out. GO to a kick boxing class. pretend your punching him in the safe. Go out with girl friends... get your self a message and don't waste anymore time on this DB. Be happy! you deserve it.

[S2B]

You are both right of course. But it's really hard to be so damning when your xMM recgonises this in himself and is actually taking action (therapy) to deal with this. Especially when you know it's a hugely difficult step for him to have taken to go to therapy and stick with it. I am sure a lot of people will say it's the manipulation of the selfish MM! But I know this was a big thing for him and I can't see him putting himself through it as some big game play.

 

I also recognise my own flaws, and why I got myself into an A with a MM in the first place, and I have worked and continue to work on that. Let's be fair here, it's not always just down to the manipulative, selfish MM and his skills in seduction! ...or certainly not in my case. So I find it hard to completely dismiss someone due to mistakes they made - otherwise what is to say anyone decent should ever be with someone like me if at one stage in my life I was capable of making these choices to be in an A?!

 

So to me it's not so black and white when people are trying to accept things about themselves and change for the better.

 

I do wish sometimes though that it was black and white as it's much easier to take decisive action on black and whites. Grey decision making can be just so wishy washy. It's easier to hate the bad guy

 

There is never grey when a person decides on a boundary for themselves.

 

You decide what that is for you. Then every decision YOU make for YOURSELF is based on your boundary! ...no grey area..

[Pili-Pala]

I just wanted to drop a note to thank you all for you for your comments. A lot to think about as always and some very wise words amongst it all. I spoke to therapist today about boundaries and contact and feel pretty sure what I now need to do - so I can but try.

 

I am writing this as I appreciate you all taking the time to read and comment and I didn't want to leave your comments unacknowledged. However, due to a recent development on LS (which through the PMs I have received I can see many of you were savvy enough to work out) it is unlikely I will provide any further thoughts on your comments in my thread or write any further updates. I might change my mind, but right now I just think I need to take a step back.

 

So as I said, I just wanted to send a big thank you out to all who shared your opinions and thoughts (even if I don't agree with some of them I always find it interesting and thought provoking) and I am sure I will still be here from time to time catching up on other people's experiences and reading back through the thoughts and advice you have shared with me, whilst I continue to focus and work on me.

 

Wishing you all positive progress.

Thanks, Pili-Pala

[imperfectangel]

What did I miss? Is your MM here?!

[Chuff]

I just wanted to drop a note to thank you all for you for your comments. A lot to think about as always and some very wise words amongst it all. I spoke to therapist today about boundaries and contact and feel pretty sure what I now need to do - so I can but try.

 

I am writing this as I appreciate you all taking the time to read and comment and I didn't want to leave your comments unacknowledged. However, due to a recent development on LS (which through the PMs I have received I can see many of you were savvy enough to work out) it is unlikely I will provide any further thoughts on your comments in my thread or write any further updates. I might change my mind, but right now I just think I need to take a step back.

 

So as I said, I just wanted to send a big thank you out to all who shared your opinions and thoughts (even if I don't agree with some of them I always find it interesting and thought provoking) and I am sure I will still be here from time to time catching up on other people's experiences and reading back through the thoughts and advice you have shared with me, whilst I continue to focus and work on me.

 

Wishing you all positive progress.

Thanks, Pili-Pala

 

You and your insightfulness will be missed.

 

I wish you strength, love, and peace. xoxo