She don’t lie, she don’t lie, she don’t lie; cocaine....

[blind_otter]

The funny thing about my personality is that if I get pushed to do anything I dig my heels in and hang my head down and get stubborn.

 

I'm in therapy and I fight with my therapist constantly. I hate AA and NA. It works for SOME people, but not ALL people. The whole concept of the religion I like to follow is that there really is no "higher power" -- nothing I can "give myself over to" -- because "myself" does not truely EXIST. Anatman. The doctrine of no self. I shall respect whatever path you follow, please do not discount my faith.

 

I can and will begin again on my path to sobriety because the dependence on drugs and alcohol clouds the mind and helps maintain and create new delusions for me to cling to. My behavior is and always has been my choice. I am the only one who can control myself. Ultimately, regardless of any recovery programs -- the choice to keep clouding my mind and distracting myself lies within me. I can go to AA every damn day and if I don't WANT to get sober for ME then it doesn't matter. AA and NA are not the cure alls. It's the desire for sobriety that leads to sobriety, regardless of where the impulse comes from.

 

I'm not whining to anyone. Hell, I can't ask for absolution because sin cannot be erased. Once committed, no amount of confession can make up for sin. I'm venting. There is a difference. What has helped me most in my life is writing about what has happened to me. I do alright in one on one therapy but anything that involves groupthink makes me wither. I have seen too many people get sober in so many different ways to believe that only ONE way is the right way.

 

And no, I don't believe in a lower power. I did not enjoy my binge. It didn't feel good. It felt like I was running.

[moimeme]

It makes me feel dirty just thinking of it, and staying up so long...for what? It wasn't even fun. It was just me, running in place, with that terrible awareness looming over me.

 

Suggest you print this on a card and put it somewhere where you can read it next time you're tempted to go.

 

Secondly, booze, drugs, sex are self-medication. Unless you get the PTSD fixed, you'll continually look for something to kill off the pain/anger/whatever that is poisoning you from the inside. Next it'll be gambling or overeating or anorexia or something.

 

I'm in therapy and I fight with my therapist constantly. I hate AA and NA. It works for SOME people, but not ALL people

 

I think you're scared to leave the rut and fighting everything that might pull you out - therapist, NA, AA, God, and eventually the bf too, probably.

[New_Wife]

Your life Otter. Obviously your way's been working too well for you to consider another - I see that clearly.

 

Take care.

 

You ever change your mind - I'm around.

[blind_otter]

YES. I'm getting PTSD treatment. I've put in for a new therapist at the research hospital that I go to.

 

It has never been about the drugs. It's always been about trying to avoid getting well. I hate when people try to take my hope away from me....by saying statements like this. Oh, you'll fail in the end, otter. Blah blah blah. f*** you, I WILL SUCCEED. Not for you. IN SPITE OF YOU.

 

I am stronger than you can even know. What I have seen and endured has given me an iron core inside of me. I don't care if anyone has faith in me at all because the only person who really needs to have faith in me is ME.

[scarly]

Losta talk,...no walk.

 

 

 

You havent even tried AA or NA. And just being present in an AA meeting isnt "trying". You have to listen. Be open. And going to ONE isnt going. You have to go to alot before it helps. The whole point is making a commitment to yourself that you will go to say 30 meetings. Regardless of how bad you think the first 29 are going to be. You make that promise and you keep it. Im telling you right up front. ...........You will HATE THE FIRST 10 MEETINGS. There,...I said it. You didnt become a hopeless addict overnight. Why would the fix be that quick?

 

And Religion has NOTHING to do with AA or NA. The term "Higher Power" has nothing to do with religion either. Your higher power can be your parents. Whatever. The term higher power can be interchanged with the term "Focus" or "Support Group". You are trying to MAKE IT religious so you can say "Im not religious,..therefore this wont work for me" STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT WONT WORK FOR YOU. You obviously have absolutely no idea what will or wont work. You are still doing the drugs and boozing for crying out loud. You are making excuses and we ALL can see that. If you dont take this advice.,....trust me,..one day or night SOON,....you will wish to GOD you did. You will be in the hospital or drawing your last breath and you WILL think of these posts and wish to GOD you listened. You are not bulletproof. And soon your own family will give up on you. Is it SOO hard to believe that I once acted exactly like you and said exactly the same things you are saying???

[New_Wife]

You've done your 12th here, Scarly. You've planted the seed, she can choose to water it or not. I would suggest you not waste your energy further.

 

Trust me, you'll have lots of sponsees over the years - you have to learn when to let them go.

[scarly]

Yes I know. Its hard for me to give up on people. Especially when I see soooo much of ME in them. If she were sober,...I bet we would be best friends if we knew eachother. But the way she thinks now,...she wouldnt believe that.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by New_Wife

 

Everyone is so hard on scarly because of her abrasive delivery. Maybe it's a regional thing, but in my neck of the woods, which includes proud fellowship in NA since 1996, we bury more than we see make it to a year clean. BURY. DEAD. So no, we don't waste a lot of time with "oh you poor dear" and "your life was sooo bad." Well no flippin kidding. Happy Leave it to Beaver folks rarely wake up one morning and think "hmm...I think I'll become a base-head today!"

 

 

As far as I'm aware, no one has stated that anyone should say, "oh you poor dear" or "your life was so bad." Talking to someone like they're a worthless piece of **** in order to make them realize that you come offering knowledge and advice about how poorly they're living their life doesn't make anyone want to listen to you.

 

Trying to help doesn't give you the freedom to talk to anyone however you want. Being a survivor doesn't give you the right to talk to people like they're beneath you and worthless because they haven't been able to overcome their addiction like you have.

[New_Wife]

Learn & fast. If you are in AA, I hear it's not so bad. In N.A., I've bured 48 in 8.5 years. 48. There are more - those are the FORTY EIGHT that I personally knew, befriended, interacted with, & held hope for. Sometimes it's almost enough to make me leave - but then who would talk to the newcomers that WANT to hear?

[scarly]

the facts Im serving up are the same facts no matter HOW they are served. So simply not liking the platter they are on isnt an excuse.

[New_Wife]

Pocky, if you've read somewhere that someone called her a worthless piece of anything, please point it out - I must have missed it.

 

I don't speak for Scarly, but I don't think Otter anything of the sort. I do see her as likely to be a sad statistic if she doesn't make some drastic changes in a big hurry - perhaps we just differ on our approach in how to help her prevent that.

[scarly]

Originally posted by Pocky

As far as I'm aware, no one has stated that anyone should say, "oh you poor dear" or "your life was so bad." Talking to someone like they're a worthless piece of **** in order to make them realize that you come offering knowledge and advice about how poorly they're living their life doesn't make anyone want to listen to you.

 

Trying to help doesn't give you the freedom to talk to anyone however you want. Being a survivor doesn't give you the right to talk to people like they're beneath you and worthless because they haven't been able to overcome their addiction like you have.

 

 

Your point about how I choose to try and relay my message is irrelavant. Just because you dont like the TONE of my voice when I tell you addiction will kill you,...doesnt mean addiction WONT kill you.

[scarly]

Originally posted by New_Wife

Pocky, if you've read somewhere that someone called her a worthless piece of anything, please point it out - I must have missed it.

 

I don't speak for Scarly, but I don't think Otter anything of the sort. I do see her as likely to be a sad statistic if she doesn't make some drastic changes in a big hurry - perhaps we just differ on our approach in how to help her prevent that.

 

 

I have NEVER called anyone a worthless piece of anything. If you will notice, actually,..I have compared Otter to me quite often in my posts. I never said I was ABOVE her. I never said she was beneath me. Not once. She has MAJOR problems. This is life or death. There isnt time for kid gloves here. Addiction is serious. Pokey hasnt once been able to tell me that Im wrong,...................just that she doesnt like the WAY I say it. But that doesnt change my message. So stop sifting for reasons you wont take my message. Just because you dont like the way I say it doesnt mean any of it isnt true.

[New_Wife]

Bah! This bickering over delivery is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

 

The child is a mess. That is an uncontroverted fact.

 

She posted in ADDICTION and RECOVERY. So clearly on some level she's got an inkling of her problem. The title of the thread involves Cocaine.

 

Anyone care to share why the child should be coddled and babied when she's killing herself, instead of talked to openly by folks who've been where she's at?

 

I think it's wonderful that so many folks care enough to post in here - whether they agree or disagree with each other. Could we please stop the she-pissing contests here and maybe agree that this girl needs help in a hurry? I will submit that if there is a method that works better than a 12-step program, she should hop to it! But this is the one I know. I'd love to hear about the others that work so well - perhaps it's something I can pass on in the future.

[blind_otter]

Addicts are such codependents. You can't fix anyone. It's my responsibility to fix me. That's what I'm saying. And you think you are helping but you aren't. It would help if say, it was someone who actually knew me and what I am like on a daily basis who was trying to tell me what I am like. But your an anonymous voice on the internet. There is not one path to any end. It's not like the only people who get sober are in AA or NA. That's one way to do it, yes. There are other ways, too.

 

And your sitting there saying I'll f*** everything up again, well great. Thanks for sharing. You really helped.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by scarly

the facts Im serving up are the same facts no matter HOW they are served. So simply not liking the platter they are on isnt an excuse.

 

And do to that you'll do more harm than good. Unfortunately, attending AA or NA courses and overcoming an addiction doesn't automatically make you a counselor. From my understanding the first objective of a counselor is to create a safe, therapeutic environment for people to be open and honest with their thoughts and opinions. Counselors are taught that trust is imperative if they want to be able to deal with the issues of the abuser in an honest and blunt manner.

 

Your approach doesn't offer a safe and therapeutic environment and certainly doesn't establish a sense of trust with you. The abuser is instantly berated for their actions and treated as though they're worthless and stupid if they don't realize the wisdom you offer will save their lives.

 

Your approach sucks ass. In my opinion, you'd fail miserably as a counselor because you've completely assigned yourself to the idea that verbally smacking the **** out of someone is the only way to make them understand the danger they're in. Beating someone with your ideas doesn't make them understand you any more, it just makes them recoil from what you're trying to teach them.

[scarly]

Good point. Im all for agreeing that AA isnt the ONLY way. But so far,..its all that Ive seen that works. Im not opposed to any program YOU tell me you know works. But so far all Ive heard from Otter, is which ones she definitely WONT do. And what were those??? Hmmmmm,...lets see,...oh yeah,...they were every single solitary idea I threw at her. Wow,..for someone who is so sure on what wont work,..she certainly is messed up.

[moimeme]

YES. I'm getting PTSD treatment. I've put in for a new therapist at the research hospital that I go to.

 

Terrific! You need that &%$#@ off your back. And that's not me telling you, either. I'd be telling the PTSD to go screw itself and leave you alone if I could.

 

It has never been about the drugs. It's always been about trying to avoid getting well.

 

Yup. You don't know what that will feel like - it's foreign territory. It's not brave to go out, do drugs, drink, have sex - it's routine. Habit. The life you know. Spooky as shxt to try another new life entirely.

[blind_otter]

AUGH!

 

This is the second time I've done coke in the last week. I can't even DO coke all the time because I have a seizure disorder. Like you would know if you knew anything about me since I post about it all the time. I'm firm in my desire to change but that really involves getting treatment for my PTSD. As Moi said above. THAT is what I am doing to get better.

 

 

Can I have my thread back, please?

[scarly]

Originally posted by Pocky

And do to that you'll do more harm than good. Unfortunately, attending AA or NA courses and overcoming an addiction doesn't automatically make you a counselor. From my understanding the first objective of a counselor is to create a safe, therapeutic environment for people to be open and honest with their thoughts and opinions. Counselors are taught that trust is imperative if they want to be able to deal with the issues of the abuser in an honest and blunt manner.

 

Your approach doesn't offer a safe and therapeutic environment and certainly doesn't establish a sense of trust with you. The abuser is instantly berated for their actions and treated as though they're worthless and stupid if they don't realize the wisdom you offer will save their lives.

 

Your approach sucks ass. In my opinion, you'd fail miserably as a counselor because you've completely assigned yourself to the idea that verbally smacking the **** out of someone is the only way to make them understand the danger they're in. Beating someone with your ideas doesn't make them understand you any more, it just makes them recoil from what you're trying to teach them.

 

 

you are showing you major ignorance now when it comes to sobriety and recovery. AA or NA arent "courses" you take....nor are they "taught" by "counselors". Its nothing but alcoholics and addicts talking to OTHER alcoholics and addicts. So,...yeah,..it DOES automatically make me just as much a counselor as the next guy at the meeting.

[scarly]

Originally posted by blind_otter

AUGH!

 

This is the second time I've done coke in the last week. I can't even DO coke all the time because I have a seizure disorder. Like you would know if you knew anything about me since I post about it all the time. I'm firm in my desire to change but that really involves getting treatment for my PTSD. As Moi said above. THAT is what I am doing to get better.

 

 

 

ugh,..........you say you cant do coke ALL the time, yet you JUST said you did it TWICE THIS WEEK,............and its only Wenesday. I dunno what YOU think all the time is, but.....................

[moimeme]

Scarly, you've more than made your point. She's making changes. These things take time. Ease up.

[New_Wife]

Pocky, I hereby extend an invite for you to attend any NA meeting in your area. I think you'll find that what you assume is helpful to an addict, and what actually works for folks in recovery - are not the same. A lot of how folks talk to people there is counterintuitive to what you think will work - in fact, it goes against every "nice" image you have of how to interact. The basis of the 12-step program is not "counseling" by any stretch. Any good sponsor will tell you to seek outside help for those issues that require counseling. The point of A.A. and N.A. is to share with other sufferers how we make it through each day without resorting to drink or drug. Period.

 

A common phrase you might hear, if you take me up on my offer, is "the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off." If a very large man with high cholesterol goes into the doctor, does it do him any good to hear "George, you're such a nice man, quality individual, I really enjoy you and I completely understand your compulsive eating, and know how tired you are - but perhaps a little excercise might be good?" No. The doctor will very bluntly tell him that he's too big, needs to excercise more, and will kill himself if he doesn't get his lifestyle under control in a hurry. Is the doctor callous and cruel? No. He is to the point and providing the truth to save the patient.

 

Now, I am not a doctor. Nor is Scarly. What I am is a woman who's been clean since 1996. I did not care one single bit for what folks had to say to me when I first got clean. In fact, I swore, threw chairs, called them names, etc. I found every reason in the book to reject any and everything they had to say because of the perceived differences between them and I. And yet, they still put up with me. They kept saying the same things over and over and over. I found them irritating, cult-like, abrasive, and annoying. And they probably saved my life.

 

If I had been handled with tender kid gloves, I may have continued to feel sorry for myself and waved my Victim flag around as a defense to living a normal life eternally. The good folks in N.A. did not allow me to do that. They broke me down to what I truly was. An addict. All social, educational, religous trappings aside - when I hurt, I used. From there - I had a place to rebuild.

 

Did I empty all my childhood issues there? Nope. I went to a counselor for that.

 

I am telling you all of this so you understand one very crucial thing: I am not coming at Otter in an antagonistic fashion, even as you read it that way. I am offering a hand if she ever chooses to take it. I will gladly tell her my story from beginning to end - if she ever wants to know. What I will never do is pat her on the head and excuse her killing herself because she hurts inside. If that's her choice - so be it - but not with my "poor baby" backing her.

 

And that - barring any questions or requests for clarification - is all I'll say in this thread.

[ghidrah]

I dont know what why you are all giving scary a hard time. she really seems to care about this girl. I see her point. otter does seem like she will come up with an excuse no matter what is suggested.

[tiki]

Otter, I'm so glad to see that you're making changes! Let us know if we can support or help you in any way. It's unfamiliar territory for me too, but don't forget...we are here for you!

 

Do not be afraid, you may fail again. But you only have a 100% failure rate at something you never take a shot at.