Understanding Friendship

[Tailor2000]

I've got a friend/acquaintance. They're great face to face, in public and private. Warm, friendly, charasmatic. But there's very rarely any social meet ups. By electronic media however, they're absolutely useless.

 

Sometimes they seem just as exuberant and vibrant by text, thoughtful responses, two way communication.

 

Other times, if they can be even bothered to reply, you'll get a garbled statement which contradicts something they said a few days earlier. They might suggest they'll do something for you, and then not follow it through.

 

You might ask them a time sensitive question, like "I can get tickets for XYZ this Saturday. Do you want to come?"

 

They don't reply. But the next time they'll see you, they'll discuss with you why they couldn't come.

 

I've read all the rules on texting and this person is showing really mixed behaviour. I simply cannot fathom it. If it wasn't for their exuberance face to face, I'd have left them to it.

 

Their defacto excuse is something usually along the lines of me being insecure and them being busy with family or work. I get that. Im not saying they have to go out if they're busy. Im not hounding them either, just a simple yes or no would suffice! And what happened to that thing you said you were going to do for me? I understand you you being busy, but don't leave me in limbo here!

 

This is another one of those friendships that I simply cannot read.

[Taramere]

Maybe somebody who has quite pronounced mood swings? Full of get up and go one minute, tired and drained the next? That could account for broken promises that were made during energy highs.

[basil67]

This person is hopeless with social media. Yet, you continue to use this platform and then complain about them being hopeless. Doesn't this seem like a waste of your efforts?

 

If they are hopeless with texting or messaging, then pick up the phone and call them. It's no different to making allowances for those friends who won't use or are rarely on Facebook.

 

I don't know if you're insecure or not, but it appears that you need to be more flexible with accepting the different communication styles of your friends.

 

Lastly, if a person is always too busy to see you, then find other friends.

[Satu]

This person is hopeless with social media. Yet, you continue to use this platform and then complain about them being hopeless. Doesn't this seem like a waste of your efforts?

 

If they are hopeless with texting or messaging, then pick up the phone and call them. It's no different to making allowances for those friends who won't use or are rarely on Facebook.

 

I don't know if you're insecure or not, but it appears that *you need to be more flexible with accepting the different communication styles of your friends.

 

Lastly, if a person is always too busy to see you, then find other friends.

 

*That is a key point that many people miss.

[Tailor2000]

This person is hopeless with social media. Yet, you continue to use this platform and then complain about them being hopeless. Doesn't this seem like a waste of your efforts?

 

But you see, that hasn't clearly be conveyed to me. And there has been times this person has been fantastic by text message. Great responses, really thoughtful. But then at other times it just disappears.

 

If that's true, that's true. The problem is knowing that's true in the first place. I can accept other communication styles. The problem is knowing when someone has a different communication style.

 

If you can't get to see someone at a Face to Face but want to talk. Hmm. I got to work that one out. I don't want to interrupt someone by a phone conversation. I don't know what they're doing.

 

To be honest, Im not very good in person or on the phone. One of my stressors with initiating phone conversation, is, what if the person on the end is in the middle of something? I don't want to interrupt them. But a text is nice and safe and can be read any time.

[basil67]

But you see, that hasn't clearly be conveyed to me. And there has been times this person has been fantastic by text message. Great responses, really thoughtful. But then at other times it just disappears.

 

If that's true, that's true. The problem is knowing that's true in the first place. I can accept other communication styles. The problem is knowing when someone has a different communication style.

 

If you can't get to see someone at a Face to Face but want to talk. Hmm. I got to work that one out. I don't want to interrupt someone by a phone conversation. I don't know what they're doing.

 

To be honest, Im not very good in person or on the phone. One of my stressors with initiating phone conversation, is, what if the person on the end is in the middle of something? I don't want to interrupt them. But a text is nice and safe and can be read any time.

 

A person shouldn't need to convey it clearly to you. You simply observe and figure it out. If you're really confused, then ask.

 

If a person disappears, it generally means that they are overwhelmed. If you haven't received a reply in 2 days, just assume they can't attend an event. If they do it too often, then perhaps you need a different friend.

 

If you are worried about interrupting a person on the phone then when they answer, say "is this a good time to talk?". If it's not a good time, ask when would be a good time. However, in this particular situation, if they haven't answered a text, I wouldn't bother calling - I'd just write them off for that event.

 

One thing I'm wondering - does this person really want to be your friend? Do they ever invite you to events? Do they ever initiate conversations? This isn't about insecurity - it's about reality.

[Tailor2000]

Maybe somebody who has quite pronounced mood swings? Full of get up and go one minute, tired and drained the next? That could account for broken promises that were made during energy highs.

 

Hmm.

 

Maybe. Then we get into the realm of trying to second guess someone else.

 

I think as I've come to the conclusion more recently, it's not so much that people do things that bother me, but it's why they do them. I simply don't understand or have any comprehension of what's going on.

 

What seems to be obvious, is that other people around me seem to be a lot more secure in their friendships and can accept this behaviour.

 

I can accept this behaviour perfectly fine, I just don't know why they do it. Maybe it's because I don't have the history compared to some of my other friends. I just get the sense somethings different, I don't know why they're different, I don't know if one of us has done something and I want to fix it.

 

But there has got a bit of anger into it, when I've been waiting on someone three weeks to let me know when they can meet. They keep telling me that they want to meet, and will look through their diary and get back to me. But they don't. Is it the ego(or the superego) just wants to say FFS - Im not even saying we have to meet this year! But you can't even look through your calendar your three weeks to tell me when you have an hour to spare?

 

Anyhow, that's a whole other post.

 

But face to face with this person, they're great, lively, full of enthusiasm, gives something back. Great. Couldn't be better. But then turns around and says they can't give me a date because they're waiting on me! I don't respond. I don't argue back. I don't stand up for myself. I don't say what I really want to say which is written above. I don't say that my time is just as precious as theirs. I don't say that they're talking rubbish about waiting on me. I just take it in, swallow it, and take the nonsense.

 

So there's this interesting thing on one hand of this great, egregious, warm behaviour. Coupled with this just absolute sheer nonsense. Trying to correlate that into any form of positive coherency which paints me and them into a good light that helps the friendship grow is the difficult bit.

 

With the unanswered questions, the nonsense, the things that don't make sense, Im at a loss to know what to do about it. I don't want to lose a friend by over-reacting. Neither do I want to be taken advantage of by a friend who's not genuine.

 

Maybe I just need to get some more confidence and security to realise that Im not doing anything wrong here. I should be able to turn around and say "You haven't got back to me with a date? What's going on?".

 

Or "You didn't reply about those tickets. Im a little upset by that!".

 

That's not being insecure is it? Im beginning to think of it as having something of self-worth about you, knowing that you're better than being greeted with silence. I just feel Im rocking the boat. And I don't like it. Don't like tension.

[Tailor2000]

A person shouldn't need to convey it clearly to you. You simply observe and figure it out. If you're really confused, then ask.

 

Ok. That is difficult. I did ask. But got one of those deflective things. Maybe they do just have a problem sharing things in general.

 

What clues can you have from observation to figure it out? What should I be looking for. Only just now am I realising Im struggling to pick up these sort of clues that seem to come naturally with others. When people exhibit a pattern of behaviour that's somewhat inconsistent, I know you can build a profile of the person if you will.

 

But if this is sort of like the first time they go AWOL on you, how am I supposed to know?

 

If a person disappears, it generally means that they are overwhelmed.

[/quote

 

That's a possibility too.

 

If you are worried about interrupting a person on the phone then when they answer, say "is this a good time to talk?". If it's not a good time, ask when would be a good time. However, in this particular situation, if they haven't answered a text, I wouldn't bother calling - I'd just write them off for that event.

 

Sounds so simple, and yet.... almost impossible to do!

 

One thing I'm wondering - does this person really want to be your friend? Do they ever invite you to events? Do they ever initiate conversations? This isn't about insecurity - it's about reality.

 

They say they do. It's actually been pretty good - not close by any stretch of the imagination. But they've definitely invited and definitely initiated.

[Tailor2000]

Well I've had friends the other way round. They are so much friends in chat and texts so many stuffs' date=' but when meets in person, especially with other friends around, they behave so casual, as if we have never texted before. I don't understand such a behavior. What do you have to say about such people?[/quote']

 

Either you're reading too much into it, or they're really shy, perhaps introverts, maybe they don't quite know what to do.

 

Im that guy. I just wait on someone to invite me into the conversation because Im absolutely petrified.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Tailor2000

[basil67]

Ok. That is difficult. I did ask. But got one of those deflective things. Maybe they do just have a problem sharing things in general.

 

What clues can you have from observation to figure it out? What should I be looking for. Only just now am I realising Im struggling to pick up these sort of clues that seem to come naturally with others. When people exhibit a pattern of behaviour that's somewhat inconsistent, I know you can build a profile of the person if you will.

 

But if this is sort of like the first time they go AWOL on you, how am I supposed to know?

 

They say they do. It's actually been pretty good - not close by any stretch of the imagination. But they've definitely invited and definitely initiated.

 

The first time a person goes AWOL, you won't know what's going on You just wait and see what happens. If they keep doing it, then you know that this is what a person is like.

 

One of my dearest friends goes AWOL from time to time. But that's just who she is. I have a choice of accepting her for who she is or dumping her - but I figure that I'd rather have her around and flaky than not around at all.

 

Asking if it's convenient for a person to talk isn't almost impossible - I ask this all the time.

 

Apparently this person says they want to be your friend? You actually asked them? no no no - this is why they said you were insecure. Don't ask if they want to be your friend - you decide if they are worthy enough to be your friend!

[basil67]

Maybe I just need to get some more confidence and security to realise that Im not doing anything wrong here. I should be able to turn around and say "You haven't got back to me with a date? What's going on?".

 

Or "You didn't reply about those tickets. Im a little upset by that!".

 

That's not being insecure is it? Im beginning to think of it as having something of self-worth about you, knowing that you're better than being greeted with silence. I just feel Im rocking the boat. And I don't like it. Don't like tension.

 

In a situation with friends, it's best to NOT say all those things. If you don't like the kind of friendship they offer, then don't be their friend.

 

I don't think I saw your gender. Are you a guy and this other person is a girl? Do you have any degree of feelings towards her? Did you ever use to be a thing? Or perhaps unrequited love? It's just that the way you're approaching this is closer to what happens in a relationship - not a friendship.

[Tailor2000]

The first time a person goes AWOL, you won't know what's going on You just wait and see what happens. If they keep doing it, then you know that this is what a person is like.

 

One of my dearest friends goes AWOL from time to time. But that's just who she is. I have a choice of accepting her for who she is or dumping her - but I figure that I'd rather have her around and flaky than not around at all.

 

Yes. That's the situation Im in. I'd rather have them as a friend than not in my life at all. It's not that I mind someone going AWOL, the problem is, I don't know WHY they're going AWOL.

 

I over think, and I can't for the life of me do anything to calm my mind down. It's forever asking why. why. why. It hears what's being said and sees what's being done and sees that there's two different things going on and I can't work out what to do next.

 

It's like a new set of boundaries has to be drawn up but I don't have the information with which to draw that boundary. The friendship I thought we had, turns out to be made up in my own head. I don't know where I stand with them. I don't know how to react. I don't know how to respond. Is there something I've said, or done that I need to stop doing? Can I trust that person? Will it happen again? Is this a temporary thing because they're just flaky - so I should just back off, but maintain the same boundaries, or are they annoyed with me?

 

They say there's nothing wrong, and that I haven't done anything. But I can't think of anything else to explain it. But I know there has to be something to explain it, and I have to explain it.

 

Asking if it's convenient for a person to talk isn't almost impossible - I ask this all the time.

 

To me it is. I very rarely call any of my friends due to this problem.

 

Apparently this person says they want to be your friend? You actually asked them? no no no - this is why they said you were insecure. Don't ask if they want to be your friend - you decide if they are worthy enough to be your friend!

 

No, I didn't ask them to be my friend. They called themselves a friend, and I consider likewise.

 

In response to your second post, Im male, they're female. I know on forums as soon as you mention a gender disparity, everyone starts going on about how you shouldn't go there, men can and should never be friends with women.

 

I think I develop some weird attachment styles, certainly. I just know she's done such a lot for me over the past couple of years, stuff that many of my "close" friends haven't done. I don't think socialising and longevity equals true friendship and it's caused me to re-evaluate some of my existing friendships. She seems to have a lot in common with me, a kindred spirit if you will, someone who seems to understand me, and I think that all this has helped me to bond with her in a certain way, and I would like to be closer friends with her. Not intimate close, but certainly I would like to support her, encourage her, motivate her as a friend, the way she's done with me. Absolutely nothing funny going on from this end.

 

I see her like a mother, and over the years, she's just been one of the nicest and most genuine people I know. I'd like to push the friendship a little further and Im 100% respectful of her marriage, so whenever I have tried to make an invite, I've invited her husband out too.

 

I can't say what's going on in her head though. As far as I know everythings innocent there too. Though she does have a weird way of pouting at me sometimes and getting me to carry her books. I don't know. Maybe she knows exactly what she's doing and getting some kind of ego trip through helping me.

 

Who knows. I don't.

[basil67]

Yes. That's the situation Im in. I'd rather have them as a friend than not in my life at all. It's not that I mind someone going AWOL, the problem is, I don't know WHY they're going AWOL.

 

I over think, and I can't for the life of me do anything to calm my mind down. It's forever asking why. why. why. It hears what's being said and sees what's being done and sees that there's two different things going on and I can't work out what to do next.

 

It's like a new set of boundaries has to be drawn up but I don't have the information with which to draw that boundary. The friendship I thought we had, turns out to be made up in my own head. I don't know where I stand with them. I don't know how to react. I don't know how to respond. Is there something I've said, or done that I need to stop doing? Can I trust that person? Will it happen again? Is this a temporary thing because they're just flaky - so I should just back off, but maintain the same boundaries, or are they annoyed with me?

 

They say there's nothing wrong, and that I haven't done anything. But I can't think of anything else to explain it. But I know there has to be something to explain it, and I have to explain it.

 

 

 

To me it is. I very rarely call any of my friends due to this problem.

 

 

 

No, I didn't ask them to be my friend. They called themselves a friend, and I consider likewise.

 

In response to your second post, Im male, they're female. I know on forums as soon as you mention a gender disparity, everyone starts going on about how you shouldn't go there, men can and should never be friends with women.

 

I think I develop some weird attachment styles, certainly. I just know she's done such a lot for me over the past couple of years, stuff that many of my "close" friends haven't done. I don't think socialising and longevity equals true friendship and it's caused me to re-evaluate some of my existing friendships. She seems to have a lot in common with me, a kindred spirit if you will, someone who seems to understand me, and I think that all this has helped me to bond with her in a certain way, and I would like to be closer friends with her. Not intimate close, but certainly I would like to support her, encourage her, motivate her as a friend, the way she's done with me. Absolutely nothing funny going on from this end.

 

I see her like a mother, and over the years, she's just been one of the nicest and most genuine people I know. I'd like to push the friendship a little further and Im 100% respectful of her marriage, so whenever I have tried to make an invite, I've invited her husband out too.

 

I can't say what's going on in her head though. As far as I know everythings innocent there too. Though she does have a weird way of pouting at me sometimes and getting me to carry her books. I don't know. Maybe she knows exactly what she's doing and getting some kind of ego trip through helping me.

 

Who knows. I don't.

 

Here's the thing. You actually don't need to know *why* a person does what they do. What you do need to do is look at their behaviour and figure out if their friendship is acceptable to you as it is.

 

Re the male/female thing. I'm not going to say that men and women can't be friends. But I can't tell you how many times I've seen people who want a person of the opposite sex to be friends, but expects more of that friendship than they would of their other same sex friends. Let me ask you this: if one of your male friends went AWOL on occasion, would it bug you to the same extent as this friendship does? Thing is, men tend to be really laid back in their friendships with each other - so your reaction to her behaviour is different to a normal friendship between mates.

 

Also, have you considered that she may not want a close male friend because it would play havoc on her dating and relationship life? Most of the men she dates would not be happy having you there in the side lines as a best friend.

 

You know how you want a closer relationship with her? Thing is, it's clear that she doesn't want a closer relationship with you. If she did want to be closer with you, she wouldn't ignore your invitations out. She sees herself as a casual friend of yours. A friendship where there's no expectations. Nothing more. And you can't expect her to give more than she wants.

 

All this really leaves us where I started at the beginning of this post. *Why doesn't matter. The only thing which matters is whether or not you can accept her as is without getting bothered.

[Tailor2000]

Here's the thing. You actually don't need to know *why* a person does what they do. What you do need to do is look at their behaviour and figure out if their friendship is acceptable to you as it is.

 

When my mind gets a bit negative, unfortunately that's exactly what it does. I don't mean to do it, and I try very hard not to do it. But it does it all the same. It has to analyse. It has to process. It's hard to explain to someone who may not have that kind of thinking brain.

 

Let me ask you this: if one of your male friends went AWOL on occasion, would it bug you to the same extent as this friendship does? Thing is, men tend to be really laid back in their friendships with each other - so your reaction to her behaviour is different to a normal friendship between mates.

 

Good question. I've thought about the same thing. My existing friends I've known for many years. I tend not to make any new friends, female or male. So the friends I've known a lot longer, I have a whole history with. No other male in the circle she is in have tried to get in any way close. And if they have, they certainly haven't done this. There's been nothing to react to.

 

I have been upset at male friends previously for giving me a date and time and then not turning up. But pretty much, they're people of their word, or at least they keep you informed if plans change. The two way conversation has been there where they've just got in touch and said sorry and we've been able to meet later and discuss things. No problem.

 

But it's like this woman gets close, the friendship seems to grow, but then all of a sudden backs off and won't discuss anything and deflects with the attitude that it's someone elses problem. But there's nothing wrong! Everything's the same as it was. Really? It doesn't feel like it.

 

But is my feeling that there's something wrong just in my head and she's right, or am I right that there's something wrong.

 

You know how you want a closer relationship with her? Thing is, it's clear that she doesn't want a closer relationship with you. If she did want to be closer with you, she wouldn't ignore your invitations out.

 

See that's where its weird. Because she has invited me out with her hubby and that was great, and she's danced with me, she invited me somewhere else without hubby but then never followed through with it, she accepted an invitation of mine but was going to come without hubby then cancelled last minute with sickness, and has invited me into her house without hubby.

 

I've received hugs and a kiss on the cheek from her. She has been really supportive and encouraging towards me. Brilliant. Is that just casual?

 

I actually don't know. It seems very mixed. I think you can understand why I might be not entirely sure what's going on.

 

I was just hoping to repay the favour and show the same support and encouragement back and know where I stand when she suggests that we should definitely meet up next week, but then can't give me any dates or give me a yes or no.

 

I don't know why that communication should have broken down the way it did.

 

All this really leaves us where I started at the beginning of this post. *Why doesn't matter. The only thing which matters is whether or not you can accept her as is without getting bothered.

 

I guess. I think the annoying thing is Im not making any friends. Or at least any close friends like I seem to crave. I don't know why. Everybody seems to like me, they say really good things about me, they think Im great, I think they're great. Yet when it comes to friendship. Nothing.

 

I always believed that friendship was possible everywhere, and all you have to do is try and stoke things a little bit and see what happens. At the end of the day, if I don't put anything in to it, nothing will happen. I guess, how much do you put in to it, when do you know when to stop, how do you know what kind of friendship it's going to be?

 

Ultimately as well you have to beware of the other persons personality, and if they're shy or anything like that, then it would be unfair to read that as just a casual friendship and nothing more! But there's a problem trying to make that judgement call too.

 

I don't want to throw away any friendship. I always have hope that just a little bit of care will help grow things. I guess Im naive and stupid.

[preraph]

Having read what you said about your guy friends vs this lady friend, maybe you need to hold this lady friend to the same standard as the guy friends, since she's just a friend. And that means having no greater expectations than you'd have of a casual male friend, as well as not hanging around for any rude behavior. I'm afraid, as has been discussed before, it's a simple fact of being low on her priority list. She's high on yours, but she has a lot of people in line ahead of you, family and probably old friends as well. I know it sucks. I've been in similar positions, but you have to just say, Well, it is what it is. Now, is it so annoying I need to just stop seeing them entirely, or is it okay to enjoy them periodically on their schedule, which always does seem unfair. But it is what it is.

[Tailor2000]

So perhaps if we back up a little and get off the "Tailor2000, you shouldn't be feeling like this" and go back to, what kind of friend is she?

 

Someone who texts you to say "let me know when you're free, and we'll definitely arrange something". You text over your free days and get "I'll check over my calendar and will let you know".

 

But it never happens. They never let you know. All these times they've said "We must definitely do this, I'll let you know" followed by "I haven't forgot, we must do this". But it still doesn't happen.

 

You meet them face to face, they ask you to send you some details by email. But they never reply or acknowledge the email They stop replying to your texts.

 

But then they see you in person and start talking about everything you sent through. You weren't expecting it because you heard nothing back, you had no idea that they were still interested in talking about it because you heard nothing back. But it turns out that they are!

 

But just a couple of months ago, they were emailing and texting back with complete and total freedom! Something's different now, but you can't pinpoint it because they're still great face to face.

 

After weeks of waiting and not getting anything back, I feel she's distancing herself from this meetup. Her choice, she's more than entitled to. It would just be nice to be told so I don't keep asking. For me it's a nightmare not being sure what page someone is on - maybe they've forgotten and need reminding? maybe because I haven't asked, they think Im not interested in meeting? Im still expecting a meet up and trying to talk as if we're meeting up. But if she's not interested, everytime I talk about it, Im being annoying!

 

On one hand you take people at face value, they've said everything is OK. Fine. Great. No reason not to expect we're not meeting.

 

On the other hand, there are the social cues and after waiting and waiting, it does suggest we're not meeting.

 

Which one's right?

 

No idea.