Any codependents trying to D?

[thecharade]

My marriage has been in crisis for years. We are almost D, all the leg work done. We worked with a mediator last year. We haven't touched or kissed in 18 months or more, but I was giving it one last shot. Sadly, he messed up again, same behavior as always. He's been in IC for three years, but it hasn't made much difference--only a little.

 

He is not a drug addict or cheater, just a child. He wanted a mommy when he got married, and I wanted a husband. When there is a problem, he hides and avoids, waits for me to handle it. I have lost all respect.

 

I feel so guilty filing tomorrow. My kids will be a wreck. How do I shut up my guilt and remember that I am worth it? Has anyone been in this situation where the guilt overwhelms them and they feel little support?

 

I am at the end of my rope.

[Brady375]

My wife is a woman child. Like living w a 31yr old teenager. Right down to the way she immaturely communicates. I point out issues I have w her and the relationship. Her weekend drinking habits which hav been every weekend for the ten years I have known her or her lack of getting any real career to help out and help build a life together ; she almost has a masters degree and is 31. For past 8 years she's only held entry level positions w no retirement or benifits. Add that to every time I bring up either of these issues she childishly plays tit for tat. "But the one time you did this, and I'm easy going I just deal w the stuff you do". Therefore I should just always put up her nonsense I guess. No ambition along w us not having kids holding us back combine w the weekend partying. It's like I don't have a Partner. She is the sweetest woman despite her inconsiderate behavior but after so many years and no growth you start loosing respect admiration.

But she is sweet and in a lot of ways dependent on me Finaically and socially. I have been separated for a few months and to bring myself to tell her I need to get out of the house was a Stuggle w guilt. Then to have a convo w her after a couple months that I was "done" was a struggle w guilt. Now I have issues and have not been able to file as I have been holding onto the idea that maybe w this she would grow up some. Call me saying she has gotten a career for herself and has made some real changes I can see. Instead I hear rumors that she is still occasionally going out drinking w the wrong friends. Instead I get text messages of her pressuring me asking me why I haven't filed yet if I'm done. Basically trying to get me to move off my spot before she has to actually accomplish something.

The guilt has been a lot. Which is why I have spent so many years w her. The recent behavior at the end was so inconsiderate that it made seperating way easier. I was so mad. But after that she really started being super sweet making doing the rest much harder.

To help w he guilt I have given things time. Each action like separating or having a major convo w her was tough. But I did it step by step. Now in the home stretch I'm hoping I don't have to divorce but lil by lil the positive or negative influences will help shape each day and each decision i make. A person can't fake change or real personality change I dont think for too long. I have minimal contact w her so it's hard to measure but what's the rush I'm

Giving things time. Eventually things will naturally unfold.

[cja]

Hi, I'm CJA and I'm a codependent. Our stories are different sure but I understand crippling guilt at proceeding with D. Not sure what you want out of this thread in terms of advice (of which I have none and definitely nothing of value, I've read lots of your other posts and responses over in the infidelity section, and you're smart, self-reflective and balanced) but I can say I get it: the paralysis and unhealthy codependency. And I am wishing you goodwill tomorrow and hope you let go, if you can, of your second guessing. From your posts I gather you've done all you can, and if you have truly given it your best effort: what is there to feel so guilty over? Being a martyr to a worthy cause, to better the lives of others, is one thing but being a martyr to ultimately keep everyone in a miserable status quo?? Well, that's another thing entirely.

 

And don't think it's good for 'the kids', and you are a martyr for them. It's not good for them when their parents are not an example of healthy non codependent partnership. My mother did this for over 20 years and it exploded in such a sad spectacular fashion that sticking it out all those years for us ultimately worked against us all. There's five of us children and though all are doing great financially ect there's three divorces with more to come among the kids. Don't know if I've helped or just rambled, but best wishes on your journey forward.

Edited March 7, 2016 by cja

[thecharade]

Brady and cja, it is PERFECT that you took the time to respond because I see so much of myself in both your situations! You both feel that "make sure I gave it every chance" feeling that haunts me, as well. You have both moved out, and while I cannot do that because I don't want to leave my three kids, I do have an in-house separation with separate bedrooms and no physical contact. So we are technically 'apart,' which gives me some degree of peace. (I have stood up for myself somewhat.)

 

Brady, your W is not going to change, just like my H is not. She either does not want to or can't/won't make herself. I remember my H's therapist saying to us both once, "You may not be able to be what she needs due to your own limitations." The T did NOT ask me to tolerate not getting what I needed, just mentioned it might never happen. Either way, your W knows she is getting more than she is giving in the R; she is a passively abusive taker, just like my H. Curious, why can't you go that last step and file? Which thoughts or feelings pull you back? Is it guilt or failure? (Those are my number 1 and number 2.)

 

cja, your husband is an abuser. He truly feels you are the cause of the fighting because that is how abusers feel, "driven to it" by other people. You will not change his thinking on this, from all I have read. You are so much like me because you twist yourself into a pretzel to . . . try to control the outcome? Try to avoid feelings of failure and loss? You think way too much about your own role, just like me. I have been attracted to controlling men all my life. It's funny, I thought my H was not like that, but it turns out he just wanted to control and manipulate in an entirely different way; he passively abuses me as much as the others aggressively abused me (verbally and emotionally), so it's all the same.

 

Why do we all feel so reluctant to leave people who are hurting us to meet their own selfish needs? What are we afraid of?

[Brady375]

Wow charade. You actually got me to tear up there. Your statement about my situation hit a cord and was Erie accurate despite not knowing us. If you met my W you would see she is the sweetest girl (I say girl not woman). She has never once cursed me off or anything like that and eeven the way she speaks is innocently childlike. BUT I have found myself squinting my eyes at times looking at her thinking "does she know what she's doing?" "That seems real passive aggressive like she's purposely saying things to upset me or make me angry". Sometimes she seems like she's on the ball but others she's clueless so it seems hard at times to know if she is innocently making a remark or being hurtful. Like during the separation she text me "idk if I should even be wearing my wedding rings any more?" I responded to her that we were separated and that is totally up to her. But hearing that upset me. The next time we spoke in person I brought that up and she stated "no I wasn't trying to push your buttons I was asking myself like idk if I should even be wearing them." Her excuse didn't even make sense.

 

Being an A type personality I thought I could fix this up on my own. We never did marriage counseling but upon separation we started individual counseling. I just refuse to work on things WITH her right now. But my counseling said the Same thing you said. "She may not be either willing, interested, or capable to do the things I need." I also told her how I have been waiting to see how things pan out during the separation and if any major positive changes occur w us and w her accomplishing some things and growing up. My T said "I think your going to be waiting for a long time".

 

Why am I still here. If we were simply bf gf since we have no kids this would done with. Maybe down the road we could reconnect maybe not. BUT yes the failure of not being able to make it work bothers me and the fact that keeping my word takes a major front seat over my own happiness. I see happiness as coming and going but breaking my word to stay married pisses me off.

 

The only thing that negates all of the above is that she has always wanted a kid. I told her pre marriage that I wasn't sure and though I tried to hold off the marriage because of this major uncertain issue the wheels kept rolling and we got married. 5 yrs later im still not ready to have a family and she Says she's ok a foregoing that for Us. I need to make sure US is enough to risk that gamble. There's more at stake then just my word. So I been holding out hoping to gain stronger Clairty. If I can be majority certain that we won't be as happy long term due to our differences n these problems I think I'll be doing her a justice by letting her go and still have time to meet someone. If I feel like i can work through this and I Could be Happy enough w her to provide her w the life she would deserve for giving up something like children for me then I'd stay And make it work.

 

I'm just looking for stronger clarity and trying to make sure I'm not running away from short term pain. Going on 3 months. Idk.

[cja]

I am afraid he's right. I am afraid of my shadow self. I am afraid of succumbing to anger, to guilt, to hate, to regret and wondering, to resentment, to bitterness. I am afraid of moving in either direction. I am afraid that I am a fraud, that though my values are love, compassion and forgiveness, I can't live up to them in my own life, my own consciousness. I am afraid of the unknown. I guess like all children I still have that fear of the dark. But like CJ (Carl Jung) said, "There is no coming to consciousness without pain. People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own Soul. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

 

Edited to add: did you file today? Hope you are looking after yourself. Be gentle and kind

Edited March 8, 2016 by cja

[thecharade]

Brady and cja, I wrote a really long response to both of you last night . . . and lost it somehow. I didn't have the energy to start over. Really bad day, but I hope you are both hanging in there.

 

Thanks for your support.

[cja]

Sorry you've had a rough day. There will probably be more so stiffen your resolve to do what, at least I get the sense, you know you need to do. I'm sure I'm projecting here in thinking of my mother, but I have no children of my own so that is the only in depth perspective of the guilt a mother may experience in believing that she is breaking up her family. I can say as an adult child of a wonderful, caring yet anxious and guilt prone mother, that I wish my mom had found the strength to face the inevitable pain of accepting that the primary relationship was unhealthy. After all this time the emporer had no clothes. No one else will expose the charade, and it can feel as if the responsibility for the masquerade, the mockery, lies with the act of drawing back that curtain. It's not though. It all gets exposed one way or another and there are better ways than the quiet, soul breaking indignity of going along with the pretense.

 

It must be so hard to be in this situation with children in the equation. And I can't directly relate to that extra deep layer of complexity in relationships, but I can at least offer that sometimes what's best for the children may hurt in the short term. And that's okay. Be kind after your hard days.

Edited March 9, 2016 by cja

[Brady375]

Hey charade. No worries. Today was ok on my end. She came by to get mail and came earlier then expected. I was gonna be gone before she arrived. Her and her friend pulled in as I was starting to back out; awkward. I stopped and rolled down my window, she didn't stop to say hi just waved and went inside. I promptly got drove away. Tough situation for both of us I guess.

 

Hang in there. Little by little each day positive and negative changes and interactions are occurring, incriminate little details and shaping your situation and life. As long as you are with in reason putting your best foot forward then everything will happen as it should. You are making progress each day even if you don't see it. A situation of this gravity doesn't resolve itself quickly. I am separated 3 months. Married 5 years together 11. And I have no kids. And look at me lol. Still here.

 

Sometimes when you arent certain of what to do the best thing is to do nothing. Let things play out. Months before I separated I had Thoughts of separating but my head and heart didn't match up. Eventually they overwhelmingly did and the separation wasn't a choice as much as it was a clear necessity. When I had a couple 3hr convos w her in regards to the relationship and progress I felt ready to do so. If and when I either begin marriage counseling w her or file the papers I know I'll know when to do that. And until I hav pretty clear feelings on either direction I'll continue to do what im doing. If she gets sick of waiting Around she can continue to pressure me like she has and that will only help clear my clouded mind on the issue.

 

Listen to you gut, as corny as it sounds listen to the universe. It's telling you what you need to know.

 

You have kids. I couldn't imagine and I'm

Sorry for your situation. But as long as you can put out max effort for the kids and hav a clear mind about what ever decision that you make you'll be ok. Don't make a rash decision to get away from

Short term pain.

[thecharade]

Thanks to you both. Had a long talk with my therapist today, and she is helping me move on the D. It is tough.

 

A question for you both: do you have a history of pleasing people or allowing other people's needs to outweigh your own? Any history that goes back to a cold or unavailable parent? I do, my mother. She rarely gave me the time of day, and I always "performed" for her love. I got very good at overlooking bad behavior in a quest to be loved, and I wonder if I am just repeating a pattern? Feels like I make a lot of excuses for my H, just like I did with my mom.

[Brady375]

Hmmm I don't think I have dug that deep yet nor do I think I'm very good as self analyzing my life.

 

I do know that I am a big people pleaser. My job is that of public service and I don't consider any self pursuits worth while, or time well spent in my life. For me earning self respect mean sacrificing for the good of others. So yes, I put others ahead of myself lol. Now I'm no angel lol i know that I can be a jerk, but if I had a mission statement the above would be it and is the driving force behind my decisions, along the way I make mistakes like everyone but I believe in that purpose in life.

 

I have tried being the rock for people in my family. Until I felt so taken advantage of (thousands of $ borrowed aka never paid back) I finally had to say stop I can't do this anymore. The guilt was tremendous and it was upsetting because I always made excuses for these family members who were older than me, cared for me growing up. I thought they Aren't taking advantage. They are doing everything in their power not to call me to ask for more money but they have no other choice. Cutting them off after over a decade of it meant admitting that they could be doing more for themselves and they were taking advantage of me. It hurt. But I did it. And now they are making decisions and managing on their own.

 

Both of my parents I think we're great growin up. THOUGH my mother had a weekend drinking issue. She would drink and her personality would change and she would over drink and she and my father would fight about it. This went on throughout my entire life until adult hood. Only on the weekends but it was an issue. Sounds familiar to my wife and her weekend drinking lol. Oh boy......

 

By the end of March it will be 4months separated. I suspect she May have stopped going to see her T. Though I have gone every week sometimes twice a week to better myself. I hear rumors that she is out w friends who are Terrible drunks; though I don't know specifics of the drinking involved. In 3 months no mention of any job interviews. She is 31 w no retirement for her self and still in an entry level position as I have paid for Everytiing since we have been togther.

 

Things are slowly getting more clear for me. Unfortunately the details that are unfolding are telling me that my wishful thinking for her May be just that. Wishful thinking. Im not certain yet. If she Has in fact stopped going to counseling and I have continued that will be the final nail in the coffin considering her actions and issues were the catalyst for the seperation. If I find out she IS out drinking as I have stayed inside for 3 months that will be another nail in the coffin.

 

Otherwise the obsurdity of the fact that it will be 4months separated she hasn't had a single job interview that will show lack of effort and be another nail in the coffin.

otherwise she could call me about a career started and the rumors of her going out here and there w the wrong people will be disbursed and I'll feel confident in trying w her and going to marriage counseling together we will see......