What do you want your ws to know ( but maybe don't want to say to them)

[wmacbride]

If you are a bs is there something you would like to say to your ws but for whatever reason, you don't?

 

If so, what is it, and why don't you tell them?

 

If you are a former bs, is there something you remember form the post affair dynamic that you had wnated to say but never did?

 

 

I was thinking about this today - not sure why. In my own situation, there was a whole lot I couldn't say in the immediate aftermath, as he was so far away and we had almost no time to talk. If I was lucky, I might get a message every now and again, maybe a phone call.

 

Most of what I had to say to him, I held on to until we talked face to face, but there were some things buried way deep down that he never knew. At first, I spent a lot of time wondering what it was I could have done that was so bad that he treated me the way he did. I was so angry with him, and he was gone, leaving me behind to clean up the mess, in as much as I could. That was not his fault nor his intention, but boy, was I angry.

 

I know it wasn't easy for him either, but in some ways, he had so much on his mind that he could sort of push it out, until he was coming back and had to face it all, head on.

 

There were also a lot of more nebulous things that I was never quite able to put into words. I did get legal advice so I knew what leaving him would look like, so at least I knew where I stood that way.

 

I think that one of the aspects that was especially frustrating was not being able to explain to him how I felt. Another thing that I still feel is a sense of loss, loss of innocence about people, I guess. I understand now how much someone who really does love you can hurt you, and how they can rationalize doing so.

 

I used to think there was something weird in feeling that way, but the more I talked with former bs the more I learned that it's not uncommon to feel that way, and that most of them felt that same grief over the loss of innocence that is so hard to explain. That someone who has placed enough value on you to make a promise to you to never hurt you like that can then go to to hurt you in ways they can not even begin to understand.

 

Now, I only trust myself 100%, after that, I trust my H more than anyone else, but it will never be 100% ever again. I suppose that's necessarily a bad thing, but it was still a painful lesson to learn.

 

btw...sorry for the typos n the title- I wrote this between contracts and was hurrying to get it all down...

Edited March 8, 2016 by wmacbride

[katielee]

ha! probably that I made three appointments with divorce attorneys but canceled the appointments last minute. I was THIS CLOSE to filing.

I'm not stupid though - I'm sure he has a lawyer picked out too. Probably has talked to one already.

oh well.

[waterwoman]

I love you, I've forgiven you, I want to stay married to you but you have to try harder than you sometimes do. I have to be number 1 in your life and I need to know that I am and most importantly you need to SHOW me that I am. Not just because of the A but because it was always what I needed and you didn't do it - now you must because if you don't I will end our marriage - sooner or later I will feel sufficiently undervalued by you that I will take my chances alone.

 

Your choice. Actions have consequences. And the consequences last a long time.

 

And I have said this once but I won't repeat it again and again. If he can't make the effort to remember, I can't make the effort to stay married.

[katielee]

I love you, I've forgiven you, I want to stay married to you but you have to try harder than you sometimes do. I have to be number 1 in your life and I need to know that I am and most importantly you need to SHOW me that I am. Not just because of the A but because it was always what I needed and you didn't do it - now you must because if you don't I will end our marriage - sooner or later I will feel sufficiently undervalued by you that I will take my chances alone.

 

 

that is really good waterwoman! You deserve this.

[Liam1]

I

Another thing that I still feel is a sense of loss, loss of innocence about people, I guess. I understand now how much someone who really does love you can hurt you, and how they can rationalize doing so.

 

 

Former cheater here: My wife said almost these exact words to me many times.

 

The truth is, in my case, and perhaps in many other affairs, that the husband somehow believed that no one would get hurt. They think they will never confess or get caught and life will go on as usual at home and the side thing is, well.........just a side thing. Sex on the side with a willing OW.

 

Personally, I never elevated the OW above my wife. In fact, as crazy as this sounds, I felt sorry for her husband and was so so glad that I was not her husband.

 

I know it's a double standard, but I looked down on her.

 

Men are dogs when it comes to sex, but woman are supposed to be less interested in pure raw sex and more interested in love and all that in order to have sex

 

I know that sounds crazy, but that is what I was thinking and a lot of men I talk to who had affairs, tell me the same.

 

Although, every now and then there is some guy that claims to have loved the OW. In those cases, I have to wonder why he would stay married.

[wmacbride]

ha! probably that I made three appointments with divorce attorneys but canceled the appointments last minute. I was THIS CLOSE to filing.

I'm not stupid though - I'm sure he has a lawyer picked out too. Probably has talked to one already.

oh well.

 

This is something that I think more people need to realize.

 

There is this image out there among some people that the bs is sitting at home, lying on the ground begging her or his ws to stay, or trotting the children out saying "how can you think of hurting them?"

 

I suppose there are some who do that, but for every one who does, there are likely many who show huge strength because they have to. They don't have the luxury of dissolving into puddles of tears for hours or days on end, taking days of work to grieve or just sending the kids away while they take the time they need to sort through their emotions.

 

Instead, their reality may be much more pragmatic. They have to go to work, keep the household running, look after the kids, keep attending to the day to day minutiae of life that you have to do if you are a parent.

 

You are, of course, not supposed to show your children you are upset, and you might not want to air your dirty laundry to the world, so you have to put on this fake, facade of normalcy.

 

While all this is going on, you are having to get yourself tested for STD's, figure out what your next steps will be, be worried that the now ex- ow or om might show up at the door, call or otherwise try and contact you. If you are a wife, you may be worried about the ow showing up to say " I'm pregnant" or something else. If you are a bh, you may be worried about similar news from your ww.

 

You make appointments to see lawyers, counselors, therapists, your doctor, etc., and again, you keep that facade going.

 

Meanwhile, all the stress is making you sick. You stop eating, lose weight, might be physically ill, can't sleep, do what I call "night wandering"- when you can't sleep so you get up and sort of wander through the house going over and over and over everything in your mind. You might cry in front of your spouse but mostly you cry alone, because you don't want the kids to see you upset. Meanwhile, everything in your home and daily life reminds you of what you have lost.

 

I remember going to the hanger with our kids to say goodbye to my ws, all the while crying. Of course people thought it was because he was leaving, ( which some of it was) but an equal share was that I was devastated by having so recently found out about the affair. The plane left, I took our kids home, and got them ready for bed. After they fell asleep, the silence was literally deafening.

 

One of thing about this that is extremely unfair- among the many that are- is that your ws will never understand the depth of this. It's not that they won't try, but they will never really get it.

 

.

[HereNorThere]

One of thing about this that is extremely unfair- among the many that are- is that your ws will never understand the depth of this. It's not that they won't try, but they will never really get it.

.

 

So true. They don't get it because the majority of them can't. Empathy, loyalty, honesty are not traits valued by all of humanity. Some people can fake it for a while, but eventually their true nature shines through.

 

I think the real question - why be with someone who could care less whether you live or die? This person literally watched you dying, falling apart and changed your life forever and didn't really care much at all. Over what? A side piece? Anyone who puts getting a little action above your well-being should be let go because they are dangerous. You wouldn't let your kids swim in a shark tank, but you would allow someone like him to be a role model. Think about that for a while. Is this how you want your children to treat their spouse?

[drifter777]

As the shock of d-day dissipated and my rugsweeping began to return our lives to normal - at least from an external, superficial way - I realized that I wanted to tell her that a part of me will hate her forever. There's no way that part will ever be healed and it's going to be a heavy weight for me and our marriage to carry. I also wanted to tell her that I wish one of us would die to end this fck'in misery because the kids would understand and accept that easier than if we divorced. I guess I'd also tell her that if I had my choice, I'd choose that she dies.

 

Can't forget so will never forgive.

[heartwhole]

If my WH wants to stick around, then he will get a front-row seat to all my thoughts and feelings.

 

I'm a kind person, so I don't berate him constnatly. I vent a lot in a journal and online. But he gets the gist of what I say.

 

Why wouldn't you just be honest? I'm not settling for a marriage that's less than stellar. I know I need to be vulnerable and share all the hard stuff. And he'd better listen and acknowledge and bear the burden with me. That's the only way forward for us.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I tell my husband all my thoughts... Good and bad...

It is the basis of our relationship. If I can't tell him... It says a lot about where we are.

 

I would hope he feels the same way.

[Mn_bowhunter]

The mind movies don't stop. They continue to pop up at random times. I also echo the statement about the loss of innocence. A "girls night" has a much more sinister undertone now that it did before WW LTA.

[Liam1]

The mind movies don't stop. They continue to pop up at random times. I also echo the statement about the loss of innocence. A "girls night" has a much more sinister undertone now that it did before WW LTA.

 

As it should.

 

The "girl's night out cover story, was the story my OW always used.

 

The sad thing is her husband would giver her permission to go out because she complained that she was bored at home all day with nothing to do but play nanny to their kids.

[Midwestmissy]

I cringe whenever he takes a work call on weekends or texts. Work was his cover, the mow was his direct report. We were a married team until he walked out the front door, then he was a rich businessman misunderstood and deprived of flattery and sex. I used to ask him for the buckets of money since he was working so much and he would seethe at me. Makes sense now, they were not focused on the correct bottom line. He was putting the business at risk for a harassment lawsuit but I was the unappreciative one. It was like watching the gps in his head shut down then re route to the most plausible denial available.

 

He doesn't hide his phone or lock it (or any of his things) nor is he on the phone as much anymore, he's more present. But I still cringe if he takes the call and leaves the room, even when I know the caller.

[wmacbride]

I tell my husband all my thoughts... Good and bad...

It is the basis of our relationship. If I can't tell him... It says a lot about where we are.

 

I would hope he feels the same way.

 

 

In the immediate aftermath of the A, I couldn't do that, as he wasn't here.

 

I am more open with him than anyone else, and I don;t lie to him, but that does not mean that there are times when I keep my own counsel.

 

The things that I have never told him about how I felt don't affect our relationship in any way that telling him now can mend. He knows the damage he caused, and rehashing it after all these years with him will just hurt him, and won't help me change the feelings.

[burnt]

Personally, I never elevated the OW above my wife. In fact, as crazy as this sounds, I felt sorry for her husband and was so so glad that I was not her husband.

 

I know it's a double standard, but I looked down on her.

 

Men are dogs when it comes to sex, but woman are supposed to be less interested in pure raw sex and more interested in love and all that in order to have sex

 

Although, every now and then there is some guy that claims to have loved the OW. In those cases, I have to wonder why he would stay married.

 

The sad thing is her husband would giver her permission to go out because she complained that she was bored at home all day with nothing to do but play nanny to their kids.

 

Question for you Liam:

(not a criticism…a question).

 

Did you FEEL WORTHY when you were with your wife before your entire involvement with OW?

 

Let me note, I am NOT asking you:

did you love your wife? or did your wife love you? were you bored? etc.

 

It's clear from all your posts that you love your wife and she is very kind and giving to give you a second chance to make everything better together.

From everything you have said about her, she sounds like an amazing woman and a wonderful wife.

 

I do not doubt your love for your wife or your wife's love for you.

 

I'm asking:

did YOU feel worthy of love and respect as a person when you were with your wife?

 

I'm asking because there's a subtle sense in almost all your posts that suggest as if you feel somewhat unworthy, inadequate, and "less".

 

No, I'm not trying to be cynical or sarcastic or obnoxious.

 

Often times, when we feel unworthy, unwanted, inadequate, or put down by someone we love, we tend to project all that self hate by running somewhere else only to find someone else to hate just to escape the very self hate.

 

There is a common phenomena: often times, when someone African American who felt hated for being Black often times hates all Black people just to lessen the self hate and to 'earn' respect from the White friends--it's a strange self projection.

 

The funny thing is they project 'respect' to the very source of their self hate, with the hope of escaping from their inner self conflict.

 

So, that's why I'm asking:

before the affair,

 

Surely, your wife clearly loved you,

But did YOU feel loved and respected by her?

Edited March 8, 2016 by burnt

[Cymbeline]

Further to Midwestmissy's comment, I would really like him to understand that smartphones and iPads which allow communication via secret email or text mean that there is not a single space in ones own home which is off limits to the affair partner - s/he can intrude everywhere at any time..

 

It a kind of emotional terrorism where unexpected attacks occur in the one place you should feel safe and calm. I would like all WS to think about the inescapable vulnerability and fearfulness that this induces. It's not something one might think of yet is one of the cruelest aspects for me and I can never watch WH email on the sofa or taking his iPad to the bath without a shiver.

[Mrs. John Adams]

In the immediate aftermath of the A, I couldn't do that, as he wasn't here.

 

I am more open with him than anyone else, and I don;t lie to him, but that does not mean that there are times when I keep my own counsel.

 

The things that I have never told him about how I felt don't affect our relationship in any way that telling him now can mend. He knows the damage he caused, and rehashing it after all these years with him will just hurt him, and won't help me change the feelings.

 

 

I have lots of time behind me....and i never recommend rehashing. But it certainly is still good to keep the lines of communication open. If you cannot civilly "discuss" how you feel...then there may still be issues to be addressed. It took us YEARS to be able to discuss our infidelities with openness and honesty and no accusations or hurt. Discussing things helps in understanding the hurt and pain caused.

 

We have to handle our situations the best way we know how to....and wisdom comes the further into the relationship we become.

 

There are things we can talk about now that we could not have discussed even 5 years ago. Since we are both on Loveshack....there are many situations and topics that we read about that reopen discussions...and as we have grown...so has our understanding.

[wmacbride]

Something else I don't think a lot of people who haven't been through it realize it that , for many bs, there is the paradox of feeling like since you love your ws, you need to support them if they are hurting, even though the actions which hurt them also devastated you.

 

I'm always surprised at how many ws think the bs doesn't see their mixed emotions. I can't speak for every bs, but many of the ones I have met have felt like they not only had to heal themselves, they also had to help heal their ws as well. They carry a huge weight on their shoulders.

 

Then, of course, there is knowing that your ws is still grieving the loss of the a relationship that is the source of so much of the bs pain. Many can sense this, and even if the bs doesn't say anything, can tear them up inside.

 

This is why I would say to an ws that they need to outright ask their bs not just how they are feeling, but specific questions.

 

e.g.- don't just ask " how are you today" or " how are you coping", ask " what hurt you the most about what I did" , "what, can I do for you right now' or even " I know you are angry at me...tell me about it"

[wmacbride]

I have lots of time behind me....and i never recommend rehashing. But it certainly is still good to keep the lines of communication open. If you cannot civilly "discuss" how you feel...then there may still be issues to be addressed. It took us YEARS to be able to discuss our infidelities with openness and honesty and no accusations or hurt. Discussing things helps in understanding the hurt and pain caused.

 

We have to handle our situations the best way we know how to....and wisdom comes the further into the relationship we become.

 

There are things we can talk about now that we could not have discussed even 5 years ago. Since we are both on Loveshack....there are many situations and topics that we read about that reopen discussions...and as we have grown...so has our understanding.

 

 

Interestingly enough, I actually ended up keeping a blog about ho I was feeling, which grew to be quite popular. I stopped it a couple of years ago, but it did help. My ws read it, and we would talk about it. I write my feelings out better than verbalize them, so it helped that way.

[wmacbride]

Further to Midwestmissy's comment, I would really like him to understand that smartphones and iPads which allow communication via secret email or text mean that there is not a single space in ones own home which is off limits to the affair partner - s/he can intrude everywhere at any time..

 

It a kind of emotional terrorism where unexpected attacks occur in the one place you should feel safe and calm. I would like all WS to think about the inescapable vulnerability and fearfulness that this induces. It's not something one might think of yet is one of the cruelest aspects for me and I can never watch WH email on the sofa or taking his iPad to the bath without a shiver.

 

I understand what you mean.

Mind you, the tetxung isn't an issue for us, as we didn't have cellphones at the time he had his A ( they were around, we never got one until,a year ago...way to keep up with the times , eh? )

[EverySunset]

I wanted to tell him to stop covering his arse. I knew almost everything and was just sitting back, watching him lie. I even gave him do-overs. Nothing.

 

I wanted him to give me a reason to stay. All he did was give me reasons to go.

[ShatteredLady]

One of the first things I said to my H after the D-day was "You've stolen my love story!". I think loss of innocence is HUGE for BS's.

 

My H has always suffered from depression. I feel like I've spent so much of my life walking on egg shells. I never want to hurt him. Even now, after ALL of it, I find it near impossible to really express how I feel. That makes me totally isolated.

 

I had 'a moment' the other night & tried to explain how desperately insecure I am & how much crippling anxiety that causes me. How he doesn't talk, never REALLY talks. I tried to explain my panic attacks & how frightened I am. I'm terrified! I've never really felt true resentment before. It's a horrible feeling & I think it's very dangerous for our marriage.

 

I finally told him that I'm not even certain that he's not going to dump me when we get back to England. His response "Nice!". That's it. "Nice!".

 

I can't talk. I can express myself here. I've even been complemented by some members on how well I express myself. I was always a big talker. I'm paralyzed inside myself with words & visions spinning wildly. My brain isn't my friend anymore.

 

I wish I could tell him how I feel. How I cry everyday. How I'm frightened of my depression & anxiety. How I'm TERRIFIED of my health, dying & leaving my babies. Being so easily replaced & no one ever telling them who I really was. Being like his Mum & having ALL of my treasured memories thrown in the trash before people even arrive for my funeral.

 

Like others have said, I want him to know, REALLY KNOW what this has done to me. Why is his pain & guilt, avoiding his depression MORE important than my pain & my feelings? I want my feeling & my healing to be important.

 

When I mention her name he says "Who?". When I mention "it" he says, "That's all behind us now".

 

....but it's NOT!

[ladydesigner]

ha! probably that I made three appointments with divorce attorneys but canceled the appointments last minute. I was THIS CLOSE to filing.

I'm not stupid though - I'm sure he has a lawyer picked out too. Probably has talked to one already.

oh well.

 

This is me too ha ha ha I have made 2 appointments and talked on the phone with a lawyer. WH knows none of this. Things still are not where I would like them to be so I may be planning my exit.

 

What I would really like to tell WH is that I feel I have wasted a good portion of my life on him and that my kids have lost a good portion of their mom due to me having a mental breakdown due to my WH lying constantly. I will never get those years back.

 

Oh I also do not want to get M'd again or give anyone the time that I gave my WH that he pissed on.

[ShatteredLady]

LadyDesigner. I feel this is so true, "my kids have lost a good portion of their mom due to me having a mental breakdown". I think this is something that people in affairs don't get. The children DO suffer!

 

I've tried so desperately to stay perky or at least ok for my kids. I'm so exhausted. It's so hard to be 'fun Mum' for little people when it takes so much effort just to BREATH, just to exist. I'm just so tired & so very sad.

[Mrs. John Adams]

One of the first things I said to my H after the D-day was "You've stolen my love story!". I think loss of innocence is HUGE for BS's.

 

My H has always suffered from depression. I feel like I've spent so much of my life walking on egg shells. I never want to hurt him. Even now, after ALL of it, I find it near impossible to really express how I feel. That makes me totally isolated.

 

I had 'a moment' the other night & tried to explain how desperately insecure I am & how much crippling anxiety that causes me. How he doesn't talk, never REALLY talks. I tried to explain my panic attacks & how frightened I am. I'm terrified! I've never really felt true resentment before. It's a horrible feeling & I think it's very dangerous for our marriage.

 

I finally told him that I'm not even certain that he's not going to dump me when we get back to England. His response "Nice!". That's it. "Nice!".

 

I can't talk. I can express myself here. I've even been complemented by some members on how well I express myself. I was always a big talker. I'm paralyzed inside myself with words & visions spinning wildly. My brain isn't my friend anymore.

 

I wish I could tell him how I feel. How I cry everyday. How I'm frightened of my depression & anxiety. How I'm TERRIFIED of my health, dying & leaving my babies. Being so easily replaced & no one ever telling them who I really was. Being like his Mum & having ALL of my treasured memories thrown in the trash before people even arrive for my funeral.

 

Like others have said, I want him to know, REALLY KNOW what this has done to me. Why is his pain & guilt, avoiding his depression MORE important than my pain & my feelings? I want my feeling & my healing to be important.

 

When I mention her name he says "Who?". When I mention "it" he says, "That's all behind us now".

 

....but it's NOT!

 

 

SL,

 

I would love for you to write out everything you feel and give it to him....make him sit down and read it in front of you. No excuses....sit there and read it buddy.

 

If he has a heart at all..he would take you in his arms and beg your forgiveness for his being a complete an utter arsehole.

 

I hope when you get back to England....you tell your parents everything you have been through...and I hope your dad takes your husband out behind the woodshed and has a discussion with him.

 

Your husband makes me so angry I could shake him.

 

Have you tried treating him exactly the same way he treats you? I would be interested to know how he responds to being treated like he doesn't exist.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Mrs. John Adams