What do you want your ws to know ( but maybe don't want to say to them)

[mcjordan]

As for how much time I spend on work.

 

I apologize for communicating poorly. My reference to work meant personal work of change, growth, and reconciliation, not a vocation.

 

I'm not angry at all. I happen to agree with you that a woman who would seek top bang another man who she knew was married, especially when she is also married, has terribly low character.

 

I don't have an agenda. I just noticed that a couple of OW who seem to be trying to change their lives were triggered by your blanket statement about how all OW are trash and MM never care for any of them, and when they expressed that, your response seemed to be, "tough luck loosey, you asked for it," which I thought was a bit unempathetic. I know someone who was in your position, and their humility over their own choices seemed to make them MORE empathetic of others rather than less, so I was surprised.

 

Like I said, I tend to lean more toward humility rather than pride when I've made a horrible and hurtful choice. But everyone processes their bad choices differently, and I can definitely see why it would make a BS feel better for the WS to demonize the OW. And no, I have never been an OW.

[Liam1]

acter.]

I apologize for communicating poorly. My reference to work meant personal work of change, growth, and reconciliation, not a vocation.

 

Well thank you for the clarification.

 

I'm not angry at all.

You're not. I will take your word for it, but you sure sound angry to me.

 

I don't have an agenda.

Your below comment appears to negate that claim.

 

and when they expressed that, your response seemed to be, "tough luck loosey, you asked for it,"

Well, that's true in my case. The OW instigated the affair, and she now does not want to show humility by accepting that we both made bad choices and now she needs to exit my life and stop deluding herself with thoughts that I ever loved her or that I am trapped in my marriage.

 

I realized my bad choice, ended the affair and chose my wife because I love my wife. I don't love or even care about the OW and this point. She is a scary delusional person, at this point.

 

Like I said, I tend to lean more toward humility rather than pride when I've made a horrible and hurtful choice. But everyone processes their bad choices differently, and I can definitely see why it would make a BS feel better for the WS to demonize the OW. And no, I have never been an OW.

Well since you really no nothing of the depth and nuance of my situation but choose to demonize me, your statement does not seem to be showing humility, empathy, or that you process things carefully or deliberately.

 

But I agree everyone processes their bad choices uniquely.

 

I am speaking my own truth, but you appear to need to attack that. You say you are defending OWs even though you are not one.

 

Why is that? Do you know? Have you asked yourself why if you think cheating is such a bad choice. I think it's a bad choice for the man and the woman. It has consequences and those consequences are ugly. Why sugar coat it.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Liam1

[Ladyjane14]

That's me exactly.

 

Just another bag of fat floating around......

 

And I actually used to believe that WE were special and I was special to him. I thought he saw something different in me. Now I think he just settled for what he could get. Just took the first opportunity that presented itself. I think it truly, deeply annoyed and aggravated him that I didn't up and disappear from the marriage instead of trying to work things out. I honestly don't know why he's here now. Is it guilt? Our daughter? Easier than finding your own place and doing visitation? Trying to get himself into a better financial position to go? Family is "just what you do"?

 

What is it? Why is he still here? It isn't me. So what is it?

 

When I said "maybe it's better to be disabused of the illusion" what I failed to add is that when we put away the idea that love is unconditional, everybody tries harder. Are you taking anything for granted now? Is he? Or are you both where you've chosen to be?

 

Am I sad about it?... yeah, I'm sad. I admit it. I'm never going to be the same person I was before, never going to be a believer again. What I don't know yet... is whether that's a bad thing.

[Ladyjane14]

Yes.

 

You know since the A I have sometimes looked at couples who are married for the second time in middle-age and wonder if perhaps that is their 'real' marriage - the one that gets the easy times, the times without the financial struggles, the times where you are both struggling to establish a career, the sleepless nights of early parenthood, the constant worries of later parenthood, the lack of time, of privacy, the rationed sex-life. That maybe marriage in your youth is always doomed to fail and is really just an imago, a larval stage before the true marriage happens with someone else. But I can't really beleive that - we had the starry-eyed love of youth, the first passion, we shared our first experiences of adult life together. It can't JUST be a way-station, a trial-run. But I shouldn't have to have these feelings - I did not deserve to have my faith tested and my heart bruised. IT ISN'T FAIR!!!! Childish but there we are. Once the bell has rung it can't be unrung. I just have to deal, like everyone else.

 

Damned straight, it's not fair. We go through all that struggle in the early, child-rearing years, and then, when we've finally got the time and resources to fully enjoy one another, we're just supposed to let our earlier disappointments poison the well? I say, not just 'no', but 'hell no'! As hard as it is to put it all together again, I'm thinking it's worth the effort.

[wmacbride]

When I said "maybe it's better to be disabused of the illusion" what I failed to add is that when we put away the idea that love is unconditional, everybody tries harder. Are you taking anything for granted now? Is he? Or are you both where you've chosen to be?

 

Am I sad about it?... yeah, I'm sad. I admit it. I'm never going to be the same person I was before, never going to be a believer again. What I don't know yet... is whether that's a bad thing.

 

 

When you think of it, maybe it's not such a bad thing.

 

I've always thought Disney was silly, especially the "prince charming" ideal. The ideal of "happily ever after" is also very unfair, as it's really difficult for that to happen. There will be bumps, there will be potholes so friggin' deep you don't think you'll ever get out of them, but you do.

 

Having the stars removed form your eyes is a painful lesson, but one that you can really learn from.

 

here's a question for bs and ws, if you decided to reconcile, why? Why did you stay together?

 

I chose to stay because my H is, at heart, a good man. he is kind, caring, extremely loving, and when all is said and done, my life is better with him in it than without.

[ladydesigner]

When you think of it, maybe it's not such a bad thing.

 

I've always thought Disney was silly, especially the "prince charming" ideal. The ideal of "happily ever after" is also very unfair, as it's really difficult for that to happen. There will be bumps, there will be potholes so friggin' deep you don't think you'll ever get out of them, but you do.

 

Having the stars removed form your eyes is a painful lesson, but one that you can really learn from.

 

here's a question for bs and ws, if you decided to reconcile, why? Why did you stay together?

 

I chose to stay because my H is, at heart, a good man. he is kind, caring, extremely loving, and when all is said and done, my life is better with him in it than without.

 

The first time around it was for my love of my WH and my family as a unit. After False R I am staying but not for love.

[wmacbride]

The first time around it was for my love of my WH and my family as a unit. After False R I am staying but not for love.

 

 

I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I find that so sad.

do you feel like you are sacrificing something? if so, has it been worth it?

[ladydesigner]

I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I find that so sad.

do you feel like you are sacrificing something? if so, has it been worth it?

 

It does once in a while when I see really happy couples. But I know after every thing my kids have been through, the last thing they need right now is a D. My kids have just now leveled out from the 4 years of hell we have been put through by my WH's actions. They have acted out, grades dropped, wet the bed... I could go on and on. I just don't want to put them through something like a D and have to adjust again, not to mention we would be in poverty at that point because my salary, while good, is not enough to support a comfortable life. We would struggle no doubt. For me right now the sacrifice is worth it, although that may change.

 

I am giving myself the gift of time to decide and process.

[wmacbride]

It does once in a while when I see really happy couples. But I know after every thing my kids have been through, the last thing they need right now is a D. My kids have just now leveled out from the 4 years of hell we have been put through by my WH's actions. They have acted out, grades dropped, wet the bed... I could go on and on. I just don't want to put them through something like a D and have to adjust again, not to mention we would be in poverty at that point because my salary, while good, is not enough to support a comfortable life. We would struggle no doubt. For me right now the sacrifice is worth it, although that may change.

 

I am giving myself the gift of time to decide and process.

 

You are one tough lady and one tough mom to go through this for your kids.

[dichotomy]

I am staying but not for love.

 

 

Does he know? or understand without you saying so?

[merrmeade]

To me, it all depends on

1. how remorseful he is and why,
   
2. how much he understands about what he did and how he got there,
   
3. how much he's changed.

Not sure if there's an order these should happen or if one is a prerequisite for another. I do know that every time I think there's been progress, he disappoints me in one of those areas. Also, although before I couldn't understand why you wouldn't tell your WS all your important issues (triggers, disappointments, etc.), I'm beginning to see. For example, a couple of days ago our brother-in-law, who's also my H's good friend, was visiting. H was talking about something he hopes his doctor will do him. He told our brother-in-law, "I'll have to sweet-talk my doctor into it." Nobody commented. We go on and two days later, he says it again. This is not a small thing or innocent coming from a WS

• who historically used flirting with every woman of every age that he wanted to impress or get something from,
  
• who never learned how and where his boundaries with women were off,
  
• who never thought about the details of what behavior and thinking is inappropriate, disrespectful in any situation with any human being and WHY.
  

So saying twice something that he would not say to me were I the only one in the room, something he would not say to his adult sons (and something his sons would not say to anyone) and having no clue that he just said something inappropriate, is a red flag for me.

 

So the main thing I'd "want [my] ws to know ( but maybe don't want to say to them)" is that I'm giving up on his really changing and, therefore, my really being able to love him as an actualized, mature adult. He'd feel insulted by that. And saying that I don't really have much hope he can or wants to change will just irritate him because he thinks getting caught was enough. Saying I feel there's no point in telling him when he's 'doing it again' will probably just be a relief. He really doesn't want to hear how he's a f-kup. He just doesn't get it, doesn't understand the need to change or the kind of work you have to do for it and just generally wants not to feel bad about himself.

 

But, of course, I must tell him for myself.

[ladydesigner]

Does he know? or understand without you saying so?

 

Yes he does and he says he will do whatever it takes to win my love back. So far he hasn't been doing much to convince me so I continue with limbo.

 

It's all really hard and confusing. I do love my WH it just isn't the way a person should be loved. I'm too jaded now.

[dichotomy]

Yes he does and he says he will do whatever it takes to win my love back. So far he hasn't been doing much to convince me so I continue with limbo.

 

It's all really hard and confusing. I do love my WH it just isn't the way a person should be loved. I'm too jaded now.

 

 

I understand.