What do you want your ws to know ( but maybe don't want to say to them)

[JohnAdams]

In the immediate aftermath of the A, I couldn't do that, as he wasn't here.

 

I am more open with him than anyone else, and I don;t lie to him, but that does not mean that there are times when I keep my own counsel.

 

The things that I have never told him about how I felt don't affect our relationship in any way that telling him now can mend. He knows the damage he caused, and rehashing it after all these years with him will just hurt him, and won't help me change the feelings.

 

I think what you can say to your ws is highly dependent on where you are in the recovery process. Certainly in the immediate aftermath of the affair and even for sometime after, I tried, although usually unsuccessfully, to hide my true feelings and thoughts. Now, many years out, yes, I absolutely feel I can tell my wife any of my feelings and not fear she will take it wrong.

 

 

Actually, all these years out, we can discuss it in a rationale way without becoming emotional. I do no think we rehash the affair or try to hurt each other. On the other hand, like it or not, it is part of our history. To try to compartmentalize it in my opinion is an insult to my intelligence. It, the affair, happened we need to be open to discuss our feelings about it.

[Joie]

I have told my H all these things and we have discussed them but I will say a few of them caught him by surprised.

 

Like the PP I was so angry at him for the fact my children didn't have the best mom I could be for almost an entire year. His lying and being gone caused me to be mean to my children. I was still out there doing the mom things, PTO, girl scouts, Sunday school teacher, etc but I wasn't enjoying them. I was going through the motions. It wasn't until he reengaged in our relationship and our family that I realized how much my children were hurt.

 

We also have to acknowledge that sometimes he is going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. I need him to be present, I need him to do little things, I need him to hold me. However, sometimes those actions are triggers for me causing me to question "Why couldn't you have done this instead of having an A?". When that happens he can't win.

 

Finally, I think he was most surprised and hurt when I told him the words "I love you" mean nothing coming from him. He said "I love you" during the A. His actions turned it into a meaningless expression. I need him to SHOW me love.

[road]

That 30+ years with some trickle truth thrown in here and there has not worked for me.

 

 

Do you not see this?

 

 

Do you not see how this affects us?

[wmacbride]

We also have to acknowledge that sometimes he is going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. I need him to be present, I need him to do little things, I need him to hold me. However, sometimes those actions are triggers for me causing me to question "Why couldn't you have done this instead of having an A?". When that happens he can't win.

 

Finally, I think he was most surprised and hurt when I told him the words "I love you" mean nothing coming from him. He said "I love you" during the A. His actions turned it into a meaningless expression. I need him to SHOW me love.

 

I understand where you are coming from. Reconciliation isn't or the faint of heart, whether you are a bs or a ws.

[wmacbride]

As the shock of d-day dissipated and my rugsweeping began to return our lives to normal - at least from an external, superficial way - I realized that I wanted to tell her that a part of me will hate her forever. There's no way that part will ever be healed and it's going to be a heavy weight for me and our marriage to carry. I also wanted to tell her that I wish one of us would die to end this fck'in misery because the kids would understand and accept that easier than if we divorced. I guess I'd also tell her that if I had my choice, I'd choose that she dies.

 

Can't forget so will never forgive.

 

 

While I can't say that I agree with you, I can understand where you are coming from.

 

It's a really sad place to find yourself in.

[wmacbride]

 

It a kind of emotional terrorism where unexpected attacks occur in the one place you should feel safe and calm.

 

 

That is a really apt term-emotional terrorism.

 

For a long time after my former ws's A, there things I used to enjoy but couldn't, lke the smell of lilacs.

 

I love the smell of lilacs, but when I found out about his A, it was spring and there was a glass jar of freshly cut lilacs on the desk, and I could smell them while I was reading the emails between the two of them.

 

It took a few springs for that association to go away. Oddly enough, it was losing my mom that made the chnage. She had always love them too, and after she died, we planted a lilac bush in the yard in her memory. Now the smell makes me think of her.

 

The really ironic thing about those two associations blending is that she had been supportive of us reconciling and had been able to give some great advice to the both of us.

[wmacbride]

One of the first things I said to my H after the D-day was "You've stolen my love story!". I think loss of innocence is HUGE for BS's.

 

My H has always suffered from depression. I feel like I've spent so much of my life walking on egg shells. I never want to hurt him. Even now, after ALL of it, I find it near impossible to really express how I feel. That makes me totally isolated.

 

I had 'a moment' the other night & tried to explain how desperately insecure I am & how much crippling anxiety that causes me. How he doesn't talk, never REALLY talks. I tried to explain my panic attacks & how frightened I am. I'm terrified! I've never really felt true resentment before. It's a horrible feeling & I think it's very dangerous for our marriage.

 

I finally told him that I'm not even certain that he's not going to dump me when we get back to England. His response "Nice!". That's it. "Nice!".

 

I can't talk. I can express myself here. I've even been complemented by some members on how well I express myself. I was always a big talker. I'm paralyzed inside myself with words & visions spinning wildly. My brain isn't my friend anymore.

 

I wish I could tell him how I feel. How I cry everyday. How I'm frightened of my depression & anxiety. How I'm TERRIFIED of my health, dying & leaving my babies. Being so easily replaced & no one ever telling them who I really was. Being like his Mum & having ALL of my treasured memories thrown in the trash before people even arrive for my funeral.

 

Like others have said, I want him to know, REALLY KNOW what this has done to me. Why is his pain & guilt, avoiding his depression MORE important than my pain & my feelings? I want my feeling & my healing to be important.

 

When I mention her name he says "Who?". When I mention "it" he says, "That's all behind us now".

 

....but it's NOT!

 

 

I'm sorry to say it, and I hope you don't mind, but he sounds like either an avoider or an azzhat- or maybe a bit of both.

 

Even if he feels it's in the past and done with for him, he needs to give you the same opportunity to work through it in your own way. Denying you that is just cruel

[Ladyjane14]

This is something that I think more people need to realize.

 

There is this image out there among some people that the bs is sitting at home, lying on the ground begging her or his ws to stay, or trotting the children out saying "how can you think of hurting them?"

 

I suppose there are some who do that, but for every one who does, there are likely many who show huge strength because they have to. They don't have the luxury of dissolving into puddles of tears for hours or days on end, taking days of work to grieve or just sending the kids away while they take the time they need to sort through their emotions.

 

Instead, their reality may be much more pragmatic. They have to go to work, keep the household running, look after the kids, keep attending to the day to day minutiae of life that you have to do if you are a parent.

 

You are, of course, not supposed to show your children you are upset, and you might not want to air your dirty laundry to the world, so you have to put on this fake, facade of normalcy.

 

While all this is going on, you are having to get yourself tested for STD's, figure out what your next steps will be, be worried that the now ex- ow or om might show up at the door, call or otherwise try and contact you. If you are a wife, you may be worried about the ow showing up to say " I'm pregnant" or something else. If you are a bh, you may be worried about similar news from your ww.

 

You make appointments to see lawyers, counselors, therapists, your doctor, etc., and again, you keep that facade going.

 

Meanwhile, all the stress is making you sick. You stop eating, lose weight, might be physically ill, can't sleep, do what I call "night wandering"- when you can't sleep so you get up and sort of wander through the house going over and over and over everything in your mind. You might cry in front of your spouse but mostly you cry alone, because you don't want the kids to see you upset. Meanwhile, everything in your home and daily life reminds you of what you have lost.

 

I remember going to the hanger with our kids to say goodbye to my ws, all the while crying. Of course people thought it was because he was leaving, ( which some of it was) but an equal share was that I was devastated by having so recently found out about the affair. The plane left, I took our kids home, and got them ready for bed. After they fell asleep, the silence was literally deafening.

One of thing about this that is extremely unfair- among the many that are- is that your ws will never understand the depth of this. It's not that they won't try, but they will never really get it.

 

.

 

 

It's this. They will NEVER understand, no matter how it's phrased; a shout across the room, a whisper in the dark, it's all the same. A tender little part of you is squashed, murdered by the very person that you trusted most to keep it safe.... and that little part, that faith in love, that belief in goodness, is never coming back.

 

I think it's the feeling that you were special to someone, you know?. In the grand cosmos, where none of us are more than fleeting grains of sand, you were special to that ONE person. Time itself couldn't change it before the adultery. But without it, you're just floating along... another grain of sand.

 

Maybe it's better to be disabused of the illusion, I don't know. All I know is that I'll go to my grave one day, knowing in my heart of hearts that no one loved me enough to keep faith with me. When I grieve, that's what I grieve for.

[wmacbride]

All I know is that I'll go to my grave one day, knowing in my heart of hearts that no one loved me enough to keep faith with me. When I grieve, that's what I grieve for.

 

This exactly.

 

The ironic thing is that I still have his back 100%, and he trusts me 100%, just as he always did.

 

Mind you, since the A, he has been there for me through so may things, as has been a rock to me through them. He has put in a huge amount of work on himslef, and I know it's been a realy hard go at times, well beyond coping with the aftermath of the A.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It's this. They will NEVER understand, no matter how it's phrased; a shout across the room, a whisper in the dark, it's all the same. A tender little part of you is squashed, murdered by the very person that you trusted most to keep it safe.... and that little part, that faith in love, that belief in goodness, is never coming back.

 

I think it's the feeling that you were special to someone, you know?. In the grand cosmos, where none of us are more than fleeting grains of sand, you were special to that ONE person. Time itself couldn't change it before the adultery. But without it, you're just floating along... another grain of sand.

 

Maybe it's better to be disabused of the illusion, I don't know. All I know is that I'll go to my grave one day, knowing in my heart of hearts that no one loved me enough to keep faith with me. When I grieve, that's what I grieve for.

 

This broke my heart Ladyjane....I do understand what you mean.

 

John and I describe it as our innocence. We have been together since i was 16 years old. He is the only man I ever dated....and he thought... that i thought...that the sun rose and set in his smile...and I did.....and now...all those things that were so precious and so special are forever taken away by MY one selfish day....and no matter how hard we try....no matter how much we grow together...we can never get it back....and we still grieve for it and we probably will the rest of our lives.

[Cloudcuckoo]

This is something that I think more people need to realize.

 

There is this image out there among some people that the bs is sitting at home, lying on the ground begging her or his ws to stay, or trotting the children out saying "how can you think of hurting them?"

 

I suppose there are some who do that, but for every one who does, there are likely many who show huge strength because they have to. They don't have the luxury of dissolving into puddles of tears for hours or days on end, taking days of work to grieve or just sending the kids away while they take the time they need to sort through their emotions.

 

Instead, their reality may be much more pragmatic. They have to go to work, keep the household running, look after the kids, keep attending to the day to day minutiae of life that you have to do if you are a parent.

 

You are, of course, not supposed to show your children you are upset, and you might not want to air your dirty laundry to the world, so you have to put on this fake, facade of normalcy.

 

While all this is going on, you are having to get yourself tested for STD's, figure out what your next steps will be, be worried that the now ex- ow or om might show up at the door, call or otherwise try and contact you. If you are a wife, you may be worried about the ow showing up to say " I'm pregnant" or something else. If you are a bh, you may be worried about similar news from your ww.

 

You make appointments to see lawyers, counselors, therapists, your doctor, etc., and again, you keep that facade going.

 

Meanwhile, all the stress is making you sick. You stop eating, lose weight, might be physically ill, can't sleep, do what I call "night wandering"- when you can't sleep so you get up and sort of wander through the house going over and over and over everything in your mind. You might cry in front of your spouse but mostly you cry alone, because you don't want the kids to see you upset. Meanwhile, everything in your home and daily life reminds you of what you have lost.

 

I remember going to the hanger with our kids to say goodbye to my ws, all the while crying. Of course people thought it was because he was leaving, ( which some of it was) but an equal share was that I was devastated by having so recently found out about the affair. The plane left, I took our kids home, and got them ready for bed. After they fell asleep, the silence was literally deafening.

 

One of thing about this that is extremely unfair- among the many that are- is that your ws will never understand the depth of this. It's not that they won't try, but they will never really get it.

 

.

 

I can absolutely relate to this macbride, my husband is an ex-serviceman and conducted his affair toward the latter part of his career and continued on when he exchanged service life for another job at sea for months at a time.

 

After dday he had to return to his three month on/off job leaving me to deal with the annihilation of all I believed to be, and the devastation of discovering the man I lived with was by far an uglier version of the one I thought I'd married.

 

Like you, I was left with the whole thing hanging in the air like smog until his return to continue dealing with the fallout. Communications during separation were difficult and accompanied by my upheld concerns that he would be in contact with the other woman I was absolutely demented and so sick I lost two stone n a month. I looked like an advert for the Red Cross.

 

What did I not say that I wanted to? "You're a vile c**t"......

 

Just couldn't bring myself to say the word...I found plenty of alternatives though!��

Edited March 9, 2016 by Cloudcuckoo

[wmacbride]

I can absolutely relate to this macbride, my husband is an ex-serviceman and conducted his affair toward the latter part of his career and continued on when he exchanged service life for another job at sea for months at a time.

 

After dday he had to return to his three month on/off job leaving me to deal with the annihilation of all I believed to be, and the devastation of discovering the man I lived with was by far an uglier version of the one I thought I'd married.

 

Like you, I was left with the whole thing hanging in the air like smog until his return to continue dealing with the fallout. Communications during separation were difficult and accompanied by my upheld concerns that he would be in contact with the other woman I was absolutely demented and so sick I lost two stone n a month. I looked like an advert for the Red Cross.

 

What did I not say that I wanted to? "You're a vile c**t"......

 

Just couldn't bring myself to say the word...I found plenty of alternatives though!��

 

My H had begin to show signs of PTSD leading up until the time he had the A, but at that time, we didn't recognize the signs of PTSD for what they were.

 

He'd been deployed before, and seemed okay when he got home, but I think it had all been building up inside, and when he got the message he was going again, it was a tipping point.

 

While he was deployed, I was asked to not say much about the A to him by his squadron's padre. He was one of few people who knew about it, and he was a great support, which surprised me, as I'm an agnostic. My husband's trade is very specialized, and he was deployed as single, and I had little to no rear party support, except the padre, who was a catholic priest.

 

I know it may sound odd to have been asked not to mention it when we did get a chance tp communicate, but I understand the reasoning. He had enough on his mind to start with, and asking to come home was not an option.

[gettingstronger]

Not sure I would want him to know, but the thing that sometimes pops in to my mind that I never say is- ewww..... sometimes the thought of what he did grosses me out-when it happens I usually get up and do some cleaning-

[privategal]

Former cheater here: My wife said almost these exact words to me many times.

 

The truth is, in my case, and perhaps in many other affairs, that the husband somehow believed that no one would get hurt. They think they will never confess or get caught and life will go on as usual at home and the side thing is, well.........just a side thing. Sex on the side with a willing OW.

 

Personally, I never elevated the OW above my wife. In fact, as crazy as this sounds, I felt sorry for her husband and was so so glad that I was not her husband.

 

I know it's a double standard, but I looked down on her.

 

Men are dogs when it comes to sex, but woman are supposed to be less interested in pure raw sex and more interested in love and all that in order to have sex

 

I know that sounds crazy, but that is what I was thinking and a lot of men I talk to who had affairs, tell me the same.

 

Although, every now and then there is some guy that claims to have loved the OW. In those cases, I have to wonder why he would stay married.

 

This means you had no integrity and self esteem yourself if you were willing to cheat on your wife with someone you looked down on, you should also look down on yourself for not having better judgement in the choosing of your ow.

There are hundreds of ow who quietly walked away, did not contact the BS and who are good people.

You chose the ow so its a bigger reflection of your character.

[Liam1]

Burnt:

 

Your posts appears to be a total self projection. I am sad to see you feel so unworthy.

 

Yes. I feel totally worthy of my wife's love. I just wanted to get laid. It's pretty easy for me to get laid, and it became difficult to turn down the easy offers. There are a lot of married women these days looking for sex outside of marriage or looking to trade out their husband.

 

The reason for my affair is and was truly that basic. My wife was going through a time, like a lot of women from what I hear, that she simply was not interested in sex.

 

I was. I wanted to get laid. It's truly as simple as that.

 

As for all the race stuff. What's that all about?

 

I think you are on the wrong site for such a political hypothesis to be analyzed.

 

I think your entire post says more about your own psyche that anyone else's or any other nationality or race.

 

Thank you for the post, it has been very revealing.

 

Question for you Liam:

(not a criticism…a question).

 

Did you FEEL WORTHY when you were with your wife before your entire involvement with OW?

 

Let me note, I am NOT asking you:

did you love your wife? or did your wife love you? were you bored? etc.

 

It's clear from all your posts that you love your wife and she is very kind and giving to give you a second chance to make everything better together.

From everything you have said about her, she sounds like an amazing woman and a wonderful wife.

 

I do not doubt your love for your wife or your wife's love for you.

 

I'm asking:

did YOU feel worthy of love and respect as a person when you were with your wife?

 

I'm asking because there's a subtle sense in almost all your posts that suggest as if you feel somewhat unworthy, inadequate, and "less".

 

No, I'm not trying to be cynical or sarcastic or obnoxious.

 

Often times, when we feel unworthy, unwanted, inadequate, or put down by someone we love, we tend to project all that self hate by running somewhere else only to find someone else to hate just to escape the very self hate.

 

There is a common phenomena: often times, when someone African American who felt hated for being Black often times hates all Black people just to lessen the self hate and to 'earn' respect from the White friends--it's a strange self projection.

 

The funny thing is they project 'respect' to the very source of their self hate, with the hope of escaping from their inner self conflict.

 

So, that's why I'm asking:

before the affair,

 

Surely, your wife clearly loved you,

But did YOU feel loved and respected by her?

[Liam1]

PrivatelegaL

 

I don't see too many OWs on this forum quietly walking away. They all seem to fantasize that the OM still loves them more than the wife and opine about all sorts of reasons for them staying other than they were just NOT that into the OW other than for sex.

 

Reading these forums shows me that my judgment about OWs is spot on. They just can't let go and seem to be in competition with the wives.

 

I did not CHOOSE the OW. She was just eager and easy and oh so available. She was in the right place at the right time. She chose me, and I took the bait. I now regret it.

 

This means you had no integrity and self esteem yourself if you were willing to cheat on your wife with someone you looked down on, you should also look down on yourself for not having better judgement in the choosing of your ow.

There are hundreds of ow who quietly walked away, did not contact the BS and who are good people.

You chose the ow so its a bigger reflection of your character.

[Cloudcuckoo]

My H had begin to show signs of PTSD leading up until the time he had the A, but at that time, we didn't recognize the signs of PTSD for what they were.

 

He'd been deployed before, and seemed okay when he got home, but I think it had all been building up inside, and when he got the message he was going again, it was a tipping point.

 

While he was deployed, I was asked to not say much about the A to him by his squadron's padre. He was one of few people who knew about it, and he was a great support, which surprised me, as I'm an agnostic. My husband's trade is very specialized, and he was deployed as single, and I had little to no rear party support, except the padre, who was a catholic priest.

 

I know it may sound odd to have been asked not to mention it when we did get a chance tp communicate, but I understand the reasoning. He had enough on his mind to start with, and asking to come home was not an option.

 

I understand completely...

[ShatteredLady]

Liam. You bring a perspective to these forums which is incredibly valuable. For some reason there are few unfaithful MM writing on forums.

 

All affairs are different. Different people with different natures getting involved for different reasons....(more often than not) with many similarities.

 

I think the "competition" that many OW feel is mostly created by the MM. I don't know of many who say "I love my wife. I just want sex on the side" (& even if they do it's hard to believe). Most feel it's necessary to trash the W to justify their behavior to the OW (& frequently themselves).

 

The thing I frequently read from OW is "He can't love his W or he wouldn't be doing this!". Instinctively I find myself believing the same things. How can someone have a good marriage, a happy home, love AND have an affair?'.

 

I understand OW saying "He chose to work on his M. He threw away the chance of happiness & returned to a blah, passionless, loveless marriage because of the kids, or money or whatever...". It's easier to believe than the alternative.

 

It's heartbreaking as a BS. It must be heartbreaking as an OW.

 

I hear the words, you're not the first MM I've heard say what you do. On some level I kind of understand it. My H says he never imagined I'd ever find out.

 

Maybe it more of a woman thing... My heart can't comprehend how it's possible to love, truly love your W AND tell another woman all those things & do all of those things. I get why so many OW feel the way they do. It's so bloody confusing!

 

I find it easier to empathize with a (single) OW than a WS who has no intention of ever leaving his W because she's his love. I believe it! I just don't get it!

 

(When both WS are married I think it's a bit different....or I've never experienced that & don't analyse it)

[katielee]

you know, my husband was faithful for 25 years. I've heard, and believe, various things on here... if he was unfaithful after all those years it's not that he didn't love me, its just that THAT IS HOW MUCH PAIN HE WAS IN. I admit my pain was no where near what his was, but it wasn't that I didn't love him, I just couldn't honor MYSELF... I hope this makes sense.

I also heard that having an affair is one step before suicide. I will attest to this, at least in my case. that's how much pain I was in before I jumped into my affair.

please don't think that you weren't loved enough. the WS didn't love THEMSELVES enough.

For those who say the WS will never know the depth of the pain they caused.. do you really WANT them to know? Is this something you wish on someone you love? or the parent of your children?

[Mrs. John Adams]

you know, my husband was faithful for 25 years. I've heard, and believe, various things on here... if he was unfaithful after all those years it's not that he didn't love me, its just that THAT IS HOW MUCH PAIN HE WAS IN. I admit my pain was no where near what his was, but it wasn't that I didn't love him, I just couldn't honor MYSELF... I hope this makes sense.

I also heard that having an affair is one step before suicide. I will attest to this, at least in my case. that's how much pain I was in before I jumped into my affair.

please don't think that you weren't loved enough. the WS didn't love THEMSELVES enough.

For those who say the WS will never know the depth of the pain they caused.. do you really WANT them to know? Is this something you wish on someone you love? or the parent of your children?

 

yes...the betrayed really wants the wayward want to know. Why?

 

Because if they truly understand the pain they caused....they are less likely to do it again.....and that is the bottom line. To begin to rebuild trust....to be able to "let go" and begin to trust again...a betrayed spouse has to believe that the wayward indeed understands and feels the pain that they have caused....because in their mind ...they cannot fathom that a person who "loves" them could hurt them so badly.

 

It isn't that they want the wayward to HURT....they want them to UNDERSTAND the hurt.

[ShatteredLady]

Oh Mrs Adams sooooo true!!

Edited March 10, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think I would want my wife to know that nothing in my life even comes close to the devastation of D-Day. Not even the death of those close to me.

 

And I'd also like her to know that while I love her with all my heart...for my own sanity and sense of self-respect... she would be absolutely dead to me if she ever hurt me like that again.

Edited March 10, 2016 by TrustedthenBusted

[wmacbride]

yes...the betrayed really wants the wayward want to know. Why?

 

Because if they truly understand the pain they caused....they are less likely to do it again.....and that is the bottom line. To begin to rebuild trust....to be able to "let go" and begin to trust again...a betrayed spouse has to believe that the wayward indeed understands and feels the pain that they have caused....because in their mind ...they cannot fathom that a person who "loves" them could hurt them so badly.

 

It isn't that they want the wayward to HURT....they want them to UNDERSTAND the hurt.

 

 

This it is exactly.

It's the empathy that most are seeking, some ws have it, some really want to have it but just can;t quite get there, and some don't have it and never will.

That doesn't make the ws who can't completely empathize a bad person or morally bereft. I don't see how they can completely understand ow it feels without having been there themselves.

[wmacbride]

I understand completely...

 

 

On a side note...there are some awesome treatment strategies available for combat PTSD now. Veterans here can access medical MJ to help while they go through the therapeutic process, and it's supposed to be quite helpful.

 

I've even read of a therapy program in the US that has the former service members work with abandoned and abused parrots. the stories from the men and women who work with the birds as part of their therapy are really humbling. The things they have seen and gone through, I can't begin to imagine.

[Mrs. John Adams]

This it is exactly.

It's the empathy that most are seeking, some ws have it, some really want to have it but just can;t quite get there, and some don't have it and never will.

That doesn't make the ws who can't completely empathize a bad person or morally bereft. I don't see how they can completely understand ow it feels without having been there themselves.

 

you are right...some just can't quite get there....and some never will get it....and none of them are bad people....I just think they just don't understand.

 

I too am a betrayed...however...even that is not what made the light bulb go on for me.

 

Honestly it was the linda macdonald book. I was in the right frame of mind...and I was so ready and was open to helping John. I was willing to do whatever it took...to do whatever i needed to do....and even then....it has been a process. I have grown in my understanding tremendously...everyday i learn something new and every day i try to apply it to my life and I try to help others. I have tremendous empathy for those who are hurting from infidelity.