The bread crumbs are getting stale

[Josmatjes]

Good on you Josmatjes! -- Use me as a cautionary tale.. 'how to hand over your power in a matter of minutes'

 

Stay steadfast. I will do the same. So much darkness awaits me..

 

I get it I really do. It's heartbreaking and rips your soul out. Is this your rock bottom? Only you know that. Mine was that I went no contact and he found a way and texted me nonstop for 24 hours with words of love and promises, so I met him and... Then that was it he didn't text or call for the next three days. I've never felt used from him until this point. So I called and he wouldn't answer soo called over and over till he finally answered and then very calmly I told him that he was an awful person and that there was a special place in hell for men like hi and to never contact me ever again....7 days ago... Am I ok? Hell no .... I want to know what he is thinking and if he is sorry but no answer will satisfy me ... It's time... And I think it's time for you too...

[Dancewithme]

Alright, OP, I'm going to talk to you like I would talk to my friends or female relatives ( from a place of care and concern):

 

Girl, get a grip!

 

I know you have feelings for him, but you know this is toxic. You know you are just a " side piece" to him. Yes, he may have feelings, but they're probably the same feelings you have when you are imagining that delicious dinner or decadent dessert you had 3 days ago, and are anticipating again soon. You are a delicious dessert, decadent meal, sex toy, nothing more.

 

He is married. He is not leaving his wife.

 

Why are you agonizing and analyzing the actions and intentions of someone else's husband? Sure, you have feelings. But don't you see, this is not healthy for you. He is someone else's problem to obsess over, not yours. Why do you want someone else's problem, we all have enough of our own!

 

This sounds like immature high school boy-girl drama. Are you a grown woman? Act like one.

 

Take a deep breath, retain your dignity, and go full blast NC. If you have close and trusted friends you can confide in, or a counselor, use them. Devote yourself to work hobbies, working out, new hobbies, family and friends, charitable causes, etc. exhaust yourself with good and positive actions, and help that time pass.

 

MM is an obsession, but you have to, and will get over him. It will take time, but you can do it.

 

No woman should allow herself to be treated like this. No woman should WANT to be treated like this. You have a heart, feelings, sexuality, etc. Share them with someone who will truly appreciate them, and can fully and equally reciprocate. Life is too short for this trash!

[jenkins95]

I actually think that Force is mentally preparing quite well to go into genuine NC and these posts on this thread will hopefully help.

 

It is a daunting prospect and the little game of head tennis going on between Force and MM are I think just something that she has to get out of her system before she goes dark 100%. I do understand the need to have answers, to know what's really on his mind, etc.

 

Maybe you'll have a few slip ups yet over the next few days Force, but I think you will be ready very soon to commit fully to NC and NEVER look back again. The sooner the better. We are and will be here for you girl.

[Maddieandtae]

Force I do understand the need to feel like you need to know what the other person is feeling and to analyze their actions. It is just that I have come to learn that it is my actions and feelings that I need to know and analyze. Anyone else's thoughts are not my business and it doesn't help me at all to over analyze just keeps me stuck. Delete your email account and focus on the whys of you, MM is just an symptom of an void that needs to be filled. Keep nc and love yourself!

[Ophelia25]

This helped me some. I'm starting on the 5th or 6th round of NC, initiated by him, as always, in the last 5 years or so. Except I guess it's not really NC, because he said yesterday he wants "some time apart" and then to be "friends." I told him that was not possible, but that I'd fake being friends if that's what he wanted. I'm so stupid.

 

I'm just so angry and frustrated with myself for being so manipulatable. I'm a smart, logical, fairly together type of person for the most part. I know what's right and wrong, and I don't think that I want to uproot my life and run off with this MM who withdrew all the affection and love stuff a few years ago and just left me with the sexual parts - if that even would happen. I don't think he'd leave his wife and kids. I think I could get her to leave HIM, but I'm not really mean enough to do that. I KNOW in my head that one can't have a real relationship when only one person feels - or at least is willing to admit - love and emotion and affection, but my stupid self won't just let me accept it. Instead, I'm this desperate, sniveling mess who grovels and tells him I'll just take anything he will give me, and tries to reason with him about why this is a stupid idea, and blah, blah, blah. I'm ridiculous. Geez, I think even I'D run away from me.

 

And my poor husband (who, if you don't know my posts, knows about the A and has more or less accepted it), has to come home and watch me cry and hate myself and even try to comfort me, which makes me feel 1000 times worse. How dare he be such a good guy when I'm clearly an idiot?

 

But, anyway, seeing that you were able to tell him that you needed more than just the sex does give me some encouragement. Maybe, he really means it this time. Maybe he's done with the sexual stuff, and he really plans to turn this around. Honestly, I'm okay with that, aside from feeling really rejected. But if he's not, maybe if he starts things back up again, I can follow your lead and tell him no. I actually have someone who really loves me. He may not be passionate and intense and exhilarating like my AP, heck, he isn't really all that affectionate, but he's consistent and has stuck with me despite my senseless addiction to what appears to be an awful guy for a long time.

 

I just can't convince myself that he's an awful guy, I keep trying and trying. He's a cheater. He's rude and demanding, and he uses me for his own sexual desires with no regard for anything else. He hasn't said he loves or misses me in who knows how long, and he disappears for days and then shows up and tells me to send him pictures of myself. If he is or was in love with me, he's really not the kind of person I want to be with. But he WANTS me, and just feeling that is enough to make me deliriously happy. Funny, I guess it's addiction, but I can't sort it out from all the feelings of love and passion I've had for him since I was 15 and we weren't cheaters.

 

Sorry for the ramble, you just struck a chord with me. I hope that if I have the chance, I'll be able to do just what you did. Stay strong - I'm glad someone is!

[doble]

I get it I really do. It's heartbreaking and rips your soul out. Is this your rock bottom? Only you know that. Mine was that I went no contact and he found a way and texted me nonstop for 24 hours with words of love and promises, so I met him and... Then that was it he didn't text or call for the next three days. I've never felt used from him until this point. So I called and he wouldn't answer soo called over and over till he finally answered and then very calmly I told him that he was an awful person and that there was a special place in hell for men like hi and to never contact me ever again....7 days ago... Am I ok? Hell no .... I want to know what he is thinking and if he is sorry but no answer will satisfy me ... It's time... And I think it's time for you too...

 

If I understand this, you tried NC and he "found" a way to get to you. He once more gaslit you, and you fell for it. You met and had intimate relations, then after he got what he wanted he tossed you aside went NC. Now you are mad. Called him until he finally answered to tell him there is a special place for him. In another post you say you gave your husband full disclosure. Does he know this?

Why should your AP be sorry? He got you. He got what he wanted and so did you. Married, 3 kids, not divorced.

You knew what he wanted that's why you broke NC.

Don't blame him it's all on you.

[Forceawakensme]

Oh force, I can't keep up with you guys! I understand the need to get this out of your system! The little jabs and back-and-forth stuff is a natural way for the two of you try to establish a winner!

 

OK, lets' have a little football match to decide the winner! Note that this is just a bit of fun and that the lines are not necessarily in chronological order!: -

 

Force: You would be better suited to a hooker

1-0

 

MM: Relax, im not mad at you... im just very busy (WTF!, you must want to slap him for that one - talk about condescending!)

1-1

 

Force: You would have to accept she is faking enjoying herself, not such a bad deal if you dont have to give anything back though.

2-1

 

MM: i think its best we sit this one out

2-2

 

Force: On that note, lets just cut contact again

3-2

 

MM: No response

3-3

 

And the winner: -

 

Force: very rude and lazy for not messaging me, despite how 'brief' our meeting was yesterday!

4-3

 

Full time!

 

Oh force, I guarantee you that he understood that 'brief' thing in exactly the way we all see it here! So funny your passive-aggressive way of slipping that one in! Oh yes, that got right at his male pride, you can guarantee it!

 

 

 

OK, imagine me with one of those snap-board things (what are they called?) that they use when doing different takes in films......

 

"Force, NC, take 6" ......audible snap.......expectant silence....

 

Oh Force, forgive me. I am being light hearted, but I know this is all very serious deep down and is hurting you a lot. Sometimes a little laugh can be like medicine. I am not making light of yuor situation. Just keep posting. We are here for you.

 

 

Actually, no im laughing at the absurdity of me (and him) -- its just ridiculousness.. pride, ego and stubbornness.

 

I am truly ready to NC and leave this nonsense behind. I just got caught up in the last minute 'who can save face' as we scorch the earth on this thing..

 

Thank you so much for making me laugh! I tend to be one of those people who likes to look for the humor in things ... i dont take myself too seriously.

[Forceawakensme]

If I understand this, you tried NC and he "found" a way to get to you. He once more gaslit you, and you fell for it. You met and had intimate relations, then after he got what he wanted he tossed you aside went NC. Now you are mad. Called him until he finally answered to tell him there is a special place for him. In another post you say you gave your husband full disclosure. Does he know this?

Why should your AP be sorry? He got you. He got what he wanted and so did you. Married, 3 kids, not divorced.

You knew what he wanted that's why you broke NC.

Don't blame him it's all on you.

 

THink you have confused with another poster.. Not sure what this husband full disclosure business is ...

 

I do agree its all on me though.

[Forceawakensme]

Thank you everyone for your posts.

 

THe tough love, the encouragement and support.

 

I can say that i had a moment of temporary insanity but i feel calmer and honestly can see what a moron i was for an hour ro so there.

 

I am ready to move on. Truly. Of course im going to waver like a mofo but im going to stick to this.

 

Thank you all for your advice!

[doble]

THink you have confused with another poster.. Not sure what this husband full disclosure business is ...

 

I do agree its all on me though.

 

Sorry for the small T/J Forceawakens. That post triggered me.

You are doing remarkably well.

[Popsicle]

Force, I saw that you broke down and contacted him again. I don't mean to make you feel worse, but understand that, given these particular circumstances, you lost your ground in doing this. If you continue to talk to him and see him (see how fast he responded once you said you'd still get together with him?) you will just be giving the okay to him that he can continue to treat you like trash and that you're okay with it. He wants you to be okay with treating you like trash but still seeing him. And you are doing that.

[Popsicle]

And by the way, I took his silence/no response to your emails where you lashed out as a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Maybe he didn't want to say anything more to upset you and thought it best to take some time to mull over his actions so he could be better next time. That is what mature people do when they make mistakes.

[Liam1]

 

 

And after knowing this, and after realizing this,

how does anyone place any modicum of trust in another utterance of "I love you"? How do you ever care to hear those words from another person?

 

Oh, What a waste. Such a meaningless waste.

 

Here's the thing, Burnt:

 

A lot of men both single and having an affair are ruthless enough to tell a woman that they love her just to get her to drop her pants.

 

This has been going on forever. It's the oldest story in the book.

 

The hallmark of whether or not a guy really loves you is his eagerness to put a ring on the gal he wants to keep around and I don't mean an engagement ring. I mean a WEDDING ring.

 

No ring, no love. That's just the cold cruel truth.

 

I never told a woman I love her to get her to lift her skirt. To me that is degrading.

 

I only tell a woman I love her when I mean it.

 

Alas, there are a lot of men who feel differently.

 

If a guy loves a woman, he wants more than just sex. He wants to share his life with her.

[ladydesigner]

Yes it's disgusting!! And then he grabbed the towel that was laying there, to wipe it off. He was also often swinging 'it' in front of me as if he was holding out a bone for a dog or something , or a carrot for a rabbit, you know what I mean :/

 

Why do men do this? It is disgusting I agree, but find my own WH will do this and I have the same reaction as his wife

 

Like we should all be worshipping the swinging schlong... oh dear

[ladydesigner]

 

MM is an obsession, but you have to, and will get over him. It will take time, but you can do it.

 

 

(((Forceawakensme))) It sucks the whole push and pull and it will go on FOREVER if you allow it.

 

Getting over an A is as bad as getting off heroin. You will need to supplement your withdrawls with lots of friends and family and LS and eventually you will start to feel better and stronger. You will have to walk through that dark to get to the light. It just is the way it is. I believe it is a process for everyone in the triangle, the OW, the MM and the BS, each of us have to walk our own path to healing.

 

You can do it! You really can! I thought I would never get over my xOM (it took me a whopping 2 years ) but I did it!

 

and I am still recovering from my WH's A, it has been a long 4 years. I feel like this road is never ending, but I am learning and growing and healing.

 

Hang in there!

[Liam1]

Yes it's disgusting!! And then he grabbed the towel that was laying there, to wipe it off. He was also often swinging 'it' in front of me as if he was holding out a bone for a dog or something , or a carrot for a rabbit, you know what I mean :/

 

....And you said he masturb*ted on your kitchen counter. Ugh!

 

You continued the relationship because??????????????????

 

My affair partner was starting to suggest some pretty disgusting antics and would shake her breasts at me. It was a real turn off. I ended it pronto. Now I am turned of by any woman that is sexually aggressive.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Liam1

[Adoraxx]

....And you said he masturb*ted on your kitchen counter. Ugh!

 

You continued the relationship because??????????????????

 

My affair partner was starting to suggest some pretty disgusting antics and would shake her breasts at me. It was a real turn off. I ended it pronto. Now I am turned of by any woman that is sexually aggressive.

 

I know!!! It's disgusting and a big big turn off!! But somehow I started to believe that this might be what other men do too ?! I know now that's not true but at the time I was so confused about it and I didn't know what to think anymore.

 

I had been trying to end the affair for years but since we live so close to each other, I thought that we could be friends instead. Stupid.. I know.

 

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you say that you also think it's a real turn off when a person acts so sexually aggressive!!

[Ophelia25]

 

The reason I asked is because mine acted cocky from day 1. Like I for sure belonged to him or something as soon as we said hello. I didn't understand why he was so presumptuous.

 

 

Mine has acted that way since I met him in 1990. In fact, when we were first dating as teenagers, my friends hated him because they said he had this weird control over me, as if he owned me and I would do anything for him.

 

Weird thing is, I've always been a pretty strong, independent-thinking person. I speak my mind, I have what I think is a pretty balanced marriage in terms of power, I make decisions, I don't often feel controlled. Except by the AP and...I love it. I CRAVE it. I get this strange thrill when he tells me to do things and when he demands stuff from me and when he looks at me like I belong to him. And I get excited by both doing what he asks and by playing and resisting and going back and forth with it. And maybe that's a sign that something is dreadfully wrong with both of us, and yet another reason it needs to end. But it just make me want him more.

[Liam1]

Mine has acted that way since I met him in 1990. In fact, when we were first dating as teenagers, my friends hated him because they said he had this weird control over me, as if he owned me and I would do anything for him.

 

Weird thing is, I've always been a pretty strong, independent-thinking person. I speak my mind, I have what I think is a pretty balanced marriage in terms of power, I make decisions, I don't often feel controlled. Except by the AP and...I love it. I CRAVE it. I get this strange thrill when he tells me to do things and when he demands stuff from me and when he looks at me like I belong to him. And I get excited by both doing what he asks and by playing and resisting and going back and forth with it. And maybe that's a sign that something is dreadfully wrong with both of us, and yet another reason it needs to end. But it just make me want him more.

 

Wow, that is scary. Have you talked to a psychologist about this? It definitely does not sound healthy.

 

Also, regarding your marriage, unless you are in an open relationship, the power balance in your marriage is not equal, if you are having an affair.

[jenkins95]

Why do men do this? It is disgusting I agree, but find my own WH will do this and I have the same reaction as his wife

 

Like we should all be worshipping the swinging schlong... oh dear

 

Not all men do this, ladydesigner - honest!

[LearningToMoveOn]

Here's the thing, Burnt:

 

A lot of men both single and having an affair are ruthless enough to tell a woman that they love her just to get her to drop her pants.

 

This has been going on forever. It's the oldest story in the book.

 

The hallmark of whether or not a guy really loves you is his eagerness to put a ring on the gal he wants to keep around and I don't mean an engagement ring. I mean a WEDDING ring.

 

No ring, no love. That's just the cold cruel truth.

 

I never told a woman I love her to get her to lift her skirt. To me that is degrading.

 

I only tell a woman I love her when I mean it.

 

Alas, there are a lot of men who feel differently.

 

If a guy loves a woman, he wants more than just sex. He wants to share his life with her.

 

I haven't posted on this site in a very long time but I do still read here from time and time and I've seen you state this sentiment so many times with such certainty, I felt I needed to say something.

 

You tend to speak in such absolutes, particularly when you say that if a man loves a woman, he will "put a ring on it". That is certainly not the case all of the time and I would argue even much of the time. A married man having an affair can very much love the OW but not want to leave his marriage (for a million reasons which have been discussed on this site ad nauseam; he loves his wife, can't bare the thoughts of not seeing his children every day, his finances, the public shame, doesn't want to hurt people etc).

 

I'm sure that, as you say, many men lie and tell women they love them to get them into bed. There are many MM, however, who do love someone other than their wife (perhaps in addition to loving their wife) but don't want to/won't/can't leave their entire life as they know it because of a feeling. In fact, I would argue that when comparing married men and women in affairs, MM tend to ultimately do what is practical and logical and best for everyone involved (including themselves), regardless of how they feel. I think MW tend to operate much more on emotion and are more willing to walk away from it all for "love".

 

I don't mean this critically. I think you are a thoughtful poster and you bring a lot to these discussions, particularly because of your experiences. I just caution you about speaking in such absolutes and generalities when it comes to the complicated mess that are affairs. To me, it sounds like you are saying that a man will always move mountains to be with a woman he loves and in my experience, it's often a lot more complicated than that.

[Ophelia25]

Wow, that is scary. Have you talked to a psychologist about this? It definitely does not sound healthy.

 

Also, regarding your marriage, unless you are in an open relationship, the power balance in your marriage is not equal, if you are having an affair.

 

I have tried therapy once, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, but didn't find it particularly helpful. I probably should give it another go, but I have a really hard time articulating things out loud. I can do it in writing just fine, though.

 

"Open" relationship isn't exactly what it is. My husband knows about the affair (which is almost exclusively virtual, we see each other once every couple of years, and then we touch and be naked and make out furiously, but have yet to "finish the deal") and has openly encouraged it on many occasions. He likes how excited and sexy I get when I'm being "wanted," it turns him on. He certainly does not want to lose me, but he is fairly confident (and why shouldn't he be?) that this guy would never actually destroy his family for me, and I wouldn't run off. He thinks the sexual charge I get is thrilling, and he uses it as fodder for his own sexual fantasies.

 

That said, he also says he "doesn't get" why I get so emotionally involved and upset by someone who clearly doesn't seem to have real concern for me, and why I let him manipulate me so often and so thoroughly. I guess I don't get this part, either, except that amidst all the control and mindgames, I get these little glimmers of this person I fell in love with when I was 15, this person who is as obsessed with me as I am with him, and who actually really loves me and wants nothing more than to figure out how to be with me. He used to talk about it all the time, when we first renewed our relationship, 8 years ago. He rarely does anymore, but remembering how he used to feel about me, and seeing little pieces of that still I guess just keeps me looking for it constantly.

[elaine567]

I just caution you about speaking in such absolutes and generalities when it comes to the complicated mess that are affairs. To me, it sounds like you are saying that a man will always move mountains to be with a woman he loves and in my experience, it's often a lot more complicated than that.

 

Seems to me it is more complicated sometimes, but the blind trust some OW put in men who obviously do not love them, is delusional at best and madness at worst.

Everyday we read horrendous stories of supposed "love", when it is obvious to anyone that true "love" is nowhere to be found there. WE read about women who have cast themselves on the sacrificial altars of married men. Women, who frankly my dear, the MM do not give a damn about.

 

So whilst Liam1 may be dealing in absolutes, I do believe men who care, prove by their actions they care, and skulking around behind his wife's back for weeks, months or years is no indication that a man truly cares for his OW, IMO.

[LearningToMoveOn]

Seems to me it is more complicated sometimes, but the blind trust some OW put in men who obviously do not love them, is delusional at best and madness at worst.

Everyday we read horrendous stories of supposed "love", when it is obvious to anyone that true "love" is nowhere to be found there. WE read about women who have cast themselves on the sacrificial altars of married men. Women, who frankly my dear, the MM do not give a damn about.

 

So whilst Liam1 may be dealing in absolutes, I do believe men who care, prove by their actions they care, and skulking around behind his wife's back for weeks, months or years is no indication that a man truly cares for his OW, IMO.

 

Absolutely, I agree. But to state that if he/she really loved you, they would upend their entire world for you seems a bit simplistic. Do lots of MM/MW use their AP? Sure, absolutely. Do lots of MM/MW fall in love with someone else and feel torn between their lives and another man/woman? You bet. Choosing to stay in their marriage doesn't mean they didn't love or care for the other person. They didn't love them enough seems more accurate to me.

 

Again, this has been debated on this site hundreds of times and I'm not here to start that debate again. I just think it's important to be more nuanced about this topic.

[Ophelia25]

Do lots of MM/MW fall in love with someone else and feel torn between their lives and another man/woman? You bet. Choosing to stay in their marriage doesn't mean they didn't love or care for the other person. They didn't love them enough seems more accurate to me.

 

I like this. I do think he loves me. I wish he'd say it, but I think it hurts him to, and he knows it probably fills me with false hope. Because he doesn't love me ENOUGH. I have always known this, and maybe I just thought my loving HIM enough could win him over. But, why would I even want it to? And why do I want to be with someone who doesn't love me enough when I live with someone who does?

 

And this is where the I AM SUCH A FRICKIN' IDIOT self-loathing thinking comes in, which probably also is not good for me. So many layers of confusion.