Stages of grief

[Ophelia25]

are you doing ok Ophelia? I know you are hurting. Your story, mostly for the length of your A resonated with me and you still have support here.

 

Thanks so much for checking! This week has been kind of a dull blur. I'm mostly just confused, but if I stop and think for more than a moment it hurts and I get really sad. I've gotten better at hiding it, and am mostly managing to put on my big girl face and pretend like I'm enjoying myself. I get these flashes of, oh, this must be what he does, so much better than I do, and how he tunes me out and can just act like fine until he believes it. Or maybe he just doesn't feel it as much as I do.

 

He did text me a couple of days ago, at midnight, riding on a bus on a band trip. He said, Just checking in if that's acceptable." I said, "hey." He sent a flurry of "hey, hope your okay, I can't sleep, something about boobs, then "I'll leave you be." I replied, "I'll leave you be also." And he replied, "sigh." I'm not what he was looking for, but I managed to not tell him I was suffering or give him anything sexual or romantic. So, that's something. I guess I felt a little better after, though I'm not sure why. Ego boost or heroin hit that he broke after only 3 days maybe. I don't quite get the "if that's acceptable" when he's the one who wanted "time apart," but whatever. I just feel so worn out. It takes every bit of my energy to pretend I'm fine all day and it's like I'm just too exhausted to even try to figure it out right now. I just want to sleep and ignore all of it.

 

My husband was really nice the first couple of days but has become increasingly grouchy. Of course, I keep thinking how much I deserve it, and more, and he really shouldn't be so understanding of such an awful thing. But then he's kind of angry and mean (not about the A, just in general) and I think, wow, why am I trying so hard? Or maybe I'm still not trying hard enough.

 

I'm just lost still right now. I don't want it to be over, I don't think I'm strong enough to keep it over should I have the opportunity, but I also wonder if maybe I can get past the hurt and have a slightly happier life without him. I mean, people do manage to heal when they lose someone. I just hate that he's not really "lost," we are just trying to hide and deny our feelings for the benefit of the others involved. I always tell people that I try to make decisions based on what will make the most people happy. A cool idea, but...not possible. This one seems like if he and I resolve to keep ourselves miserable, then perhaps his wife can be slightly less unhappy and his kids can remain oblivious. So, good trade off? I guess.

[privategal]

You cant go to rehab or quit smoking for instance, unless your ready. Even if its best for your health.

You arent there.

So I can only say then try not to be the one initiating. Take one day at a time.

Try to be kind to yourself until you are ready to let go.

I know its sad and hard and weighs on you. You are ok.

Just try not to be manipulated and try to see the truths in all of it.

When he is away from his wife he reached for you on that bus.

Dont add value to that.

Its reall aweful he wont let you go and heal. It doesnt mean love and value when he reaches out for an ego stroke. And hits from him arent vitamins, theyre toxic and keep you in rehab.

Try and be strong as you figure out how to proceed. You have us.

I saw your last posts unanswered and until your done posting you wont be ignored.

[Ophelia25]

Thank you, privategal. I do find it encouraging to read most of the things on here, at least from the perspective of seeing that people feel the way I do.

 

It is sobering how long recovery seems to take, and I admire the resolve and strength in people, wishing I could get to that point. People say I will get there, I hope so. It's just been such a very long time that I've been determined NOT to let this go, I'm still not quite sure where to start. But, one day at a time is probably a good way to think about it. Except, every day I wake up and think YES! I DO WANT HIM IN MY LIFE! I WANT HIM BACK!, which is probably not exactly how I'm supposed to do it.

 

Now that I'm on Day 6 (I guess it's not technically NC since he did text me that one time and I answered), I feel pretty hollow. A sort of bewildered sad, like I don't know what's going on. Kind of like a sad shrug - this is how it is now.

 

The hardest part for me, and probably a little weird, is that when we are talking to each other, joking, flirting, sexting, enjoying each other's "virtual" company, I feel like I have a pretty good hold on reality (DUMB, DUMB, since I've been told this whole relationship is based on fantasy). But, I understand that he won't leave his family and I won't leave my husband and...it's almost okay that way. We will want each other always and every once in awhile, we will see each other and not quite have sex and then talk each other through our guilt about that. This is not the way love should be, but it's what we do. As long as I feel like he is in the same place I am, wanting me but mostly knowing better, I don't really feel that out of sorts.

 

But, when we are NOT talking to each other, that's when my crazy desperate thoughts occur - maybe I should drive up there (7 hours) and grab him and talk some sense into him. Maybe I should seduce him (not that hard to do) and nail him and then tell her, because she would very likely end their marriage. But...I don't WANT him like that, because he's forced into me because of our stupidity, and stuck with me. I want him to choose me. And he won't. He just won't UNchoose me either.

[JessicaInGeorgia]

The hardest part for me, and probably a little weird, is that when we are talking to each other, joking, flirting, sexting, enjoying each other's "virtual" company, I feel like I have a pretty good hold on reality (DUMB, DUMB, since I've been told this whole relationship is based on fantasy). But, I understand that he won't leave his family and I won't leave my husband and...it's almost okay that way. We will want each other always and every once in awhile, we will see each other and not quite have sex and then talk each other through our guilt about that. This is not the way love should be, but it's what we do. As long as I feel like he is in the same place I am, wanting me but mostly knowing better, I don't really feel that out of sorts.

 

But, when we are NOT talking to each other, that's when my crazy desperate thoughts occur - maybe I should drive up there (7 hours) and grab him and talk some sense into him. Maybe I should seduce him (not that hard to do) and nail him and then tell her, because she would very likely end their marriage. But...I don't WANT him like that, because he's forced into me because of our stupidity, and stuck with me. I want him to choose me. And he won't. He just won't UNchoose me either.

 

Ophelia, this whole response really resonates with me. When we're laughing, texting, and talking everything seems right, I'm a rational, logical person. We're both getting what we want out of the relationship. But then when he goes dark or takes a day to respond to me I get irrationally upset. I can't think about anything else and I'm hyper-focused on his lack of response.

 

I want to be the one he chooses but then I really don't when I REALLY think about it. I'm in limbo and can't pick a side.

[privategal]

I know. I understand every word and thought.

I thought this too, I even thought, so what if he IS using me, Im ok with that because I at least have him.

Id think...I will settle for ANYTHING rather than nothing.

I guess in some scenarios it will take something catastrophic.

In my case it was him out of nowhere deciding again to end it, permanently.

There was no black and white, it needed to be done, it was extremely clear and left no doubt to analyze, it was over.

That really has forced me into knowing with no doubt.

Maybe in anothers case its a new love, a big move, a death...something.

But yes, I can truly see you arent ready byt I can also see you know it isnt good for you, you see some of the very bad thibgs its done to you.

That is the start.

You have to continue to make your own journey and maybe there will be a day or event where you just KNOW..where you are just DONE.

I know if there was that switch you would have flipped it already.

When someone gets in our blood, makes us feel beautiful, and we can believe if we just hang in we have that hope they will be ours, or we will win, or the hard work and tears werent for nothing...we will prevail.

Id say just keep thinking, just keep reading, and if the time will be right where you can make the call to block it out for good, you will.

Im rooting for you and not judging you.

[Ophelia25]

Okay. I don't feel ready, either. But I feel a little closer than I have been in the past. When he was vocal about how he felt about me, and about the possibilities of us ending up together somehow, it was harder, but he's closed off a little at a time over the last year or so and while it has made me really sad, it's like he's sending messages slowly that he wants to pull away. He still wants sexual attention, and I can't say I don't love wanting and the flirting, but what I felt I needed was emotional, and he filled that for a long time, and now either can't, or won't, or doesn't want to, or something.

 

So. I'm clearly not ready, but I'm trying to prepare myself to get that way. I know that I cannot maintain NC if he talks to me. I can't just ignore him, it just feels too mean. I think he will probably leave me alone for a few more days, maybe even a few weeks to get through his big anniversary early next month. Maybe he will have a glorious reuniting with her and then be able to keep it up afterwards. I think not. He will travel again shortly after that, and she goes to bed super early and he's left alone in a hotel room. He will talk.

 

What do I say? I know that I am done begging, pleading, requesting, reasoning, discussing. I have said to him everything that I know how in every possible combination of words, usually eliciting little more than a sigh and an apology. I don't want to keep pressuring him, because if he doesn't want to love me, I want him to really try to stop. But he's going to ask how I am. How can I answer that without sounding desperate, needy, depressed, sad, etc? What's the best response that will get him to think about what he wants without being accusatory or pitiful?

 

To reiterate, I don't want it to end. I know we can't be "friends," as he says he wants, I think he's just scared to say it's over and then not mean it. As am I. I do think we can pretend to be friends for awhile and have minimal contact (I know, y'all will probably disagree, but I'd try it in order to not have this giant empty hole in my life). But, I also want him to make the call. He feels, and I think is mostly right, that we would have married at 19 if I hadn't cut him off and ended things. I had good reasons at the time, and for awhile I felt as if I'd made the right decision because he couldn't be definitive about wanting me. He still can't, but I want him to choose to go away. He needs to get some balls for the first time ever with me and make some decisions. I think he's trying. I hate it, but it must be the best thing to do.

 

Anyway, just not sure how to proceed with him. I will not contact him, I know that. I'm sad not to hear from him, but not tempted. When he tries to talk to me, though, I know I'll respond. I just don't know how. What should I say?

[privategal]

What more can be said sweet girl?

Please re-read my thread.

I can only say he IS slowly letting you go.

Hes calculating how slowly so u dont flio out.

Its his plan.

You need to be the one to end it if you want to feel less shattered.

He isnt even checking on you.

He knows your hurting.

Wow.

[jenkins95]

......it has made me really sad, it's like he's sending messages slowly that he wants to pull away. He still wants sexual attention.....

 

Oh Ophelia, that statement pretty much sums up 90% of MM in affairs. One day they suddenly wake up and realise what a mess they've created, start to panic and want out..... Oh but we'll still take the sex, thank you very much!

 

Men eh? And I am one of them!

 

I feel your agony and your reluctance to let go, but do you want to drag your pain on longer and longer and delay your recovery? Walk away now, take charge and start your recovery. Do it for you and do it for us at LS! Don't just let him use you for sex as he slowly distances himself, 'manages' you and carefully plans his exit strategy. Show him who's boss. Surprise him a little.

 

Be free today, and every time you want to talk to him, talk to us. I know it's so difficult, I really feel for you. You can do it - you really can girl. We're here for you, J

Edited March 23, 2016 by jenkins95

[Forceawakensme]

Jenkins and Privategal have given such wonderful advice.

 

I can only add this quote from 'hes just not that into you' -(i actually love these quotes as they make so much sense... they basically remind us that if they wanted to call us, text us, leave for us.. they WOULD. They are choosing not to because, well.. the will and desire to do so, is simply not strong enough. If he wanted to be emotional with you, profess love and connect with you emotionally -- He would. He doesn't want to.

 

"Sometimes you just gotta be your own hero and save your own little heart.

Because sometimes the people you can’t imagine living without, can actually live without you".

 

I know you are in so much pain and i feel so much compassion for you. I think with some distance you will see that he just doesn't have the courage to cut the chord, yet most of the time its what he wants to do. He is torn -- he doesn't want emotional connection but he cant walk away from those steamy sex sessions, hes a man with a libido, who simply lacks courage to do what he knows he needs to do. He pulls back, feels better. then he gets horny.. and changes his mind -- but only temporarily. It is short-lived until hes 'finished'. You said you noticed that during your video chat sessions. I think thats very telling...

 

Dont wait for him to marginalize you so much that you are just a mechanism to quickly get him off... then back to his real life. You are better than this. Your husband can create a new fantasy with you (someonelse if you're willing) -- this guy is going to crush your soul until there is nothing left. Until you both have no respect for you. Get out now, dear girl. Just do it. Draft an email now, and go NC (i say NC because anything less than NC is not safe for you..

 

Shut all the doors and lock them. If by some miracle he wakes up and decides you really are the one for him then he will move heaven and earth to re-open them .. but until that happens, you are saving yourself from more emotional torture and wasted years..

Edited March 23, 2016 by Forceawakensme

[Forceawakensme]

Another one i like to read:

 

 

"A man who wants to make a relationship work will move mountains to keep the woman he loves. If he's not calling you to tell you he loves you and wants you back, it should only be because he's showing up at your new residence to do it in person ... if he's not doing any of that, he may love you, he may miss you, but ultimately he's just not that into you. Stop taking his calls and let him know what it's like to live without you."

 

 

Big hugs, you got this. xxx

[Ophelia25]

Thank you. You really are all giving good advice, and things I'm thinking about constantly, in addition to all the intrusive thoughts of how miserable I feel. I guess I'm just having a really hard time coming to terms with him being able to somehow phase out all that "first love" romantic crap that I feel every time I think of him and really have it be all about sex and his immediate desires. I keep thinking that he's just burying the love parts because it's too difficult for him, and if I work hard enough I can get them back. But, I shouldn't have to, should I? I mean, if you love somebody, you just...DO, how can you take parts of it away like that? Arggh, every time I write about it I feel like I have this stupid fairy tale view that's just ridiculous. Maybe that's the problem.

 

So, it's Day 8. I've been really good, deleted Instagram so I wouldn't have to see his wife's happy vacation posts and pine, haven't written to him (we have a shared blog that I often use to try to sort through things), haven't even been tempted to contact him, really, though I wish he'd talk to me as much, or more than, I wish he'd leave me alone. The initial shock and anxiety and stormy tears have faded a little, but I don't feel any less sad. I just keep saying to myself that if he is trying to do what's right, even if it's for totally the wrong reasons, then it's my job to help him, no matter how much it hurts. Whether it really is better for us this way or not, it's what he's decided, for now, and maybe his silence can give me a chance to pull myself together enough to realize how ruined he makes me and put a stop to it when he tries again. I hate that I WANT him to use me - what kind of relationship is that? I mean, sure, I'd ultimately want him to love me and care about me, and he so did at one point, but if he can toss that part away, then I really shouldn't want to be with him.

 

It's just that being so very sad really clouds my ability to think clearly about anything. I only know how to sleep and go through the motions of life, hoping that maybe it will lighten up a little. And it looks like it will, it's just such a long, slow process.

[Forceawakensme]

Thank you. You really are all giving good advice, and things I'm thinking about constantly, in addition to all the intrusive thoughts of how miserable I feel. I guess I'm just having a really hard time coming to terms with him being able to somehow phase out all that "first love" romantic crap that I feel every time I think of him and really have it be all about sex and his immediate desires. I keep thinking that he's just burying the love parts because it's too difficult for him, and if I work hard enough I can get them back. But, I shouldn't have to, should I? I mean, if you love somebody, you just...DO, how can you take parts of it away like that? Arggh, every time I write about it I feel like I have this stupid fairy tale view that's just ridiculous. Maybe that's the problem.

 

So, it's Day 8. I've been really good, deleted Instagram so I wouldn't have to see his wife's happy vacation posts and pine, haven't written to him (we have a shared blog that I often use to try to sort through things), haven't even been tempted to contact him, really, though I wish he'd talk to me as much, or more than, I wish he'd leave me alone. The initial shock and anxiety and stormy tears have faded a little, but I don't feel any less sad. I just keep saying to myself that if he is trying to do what's right, even if it's for totally the wrong reasons, then it's my job to help him, no matter how much it hurts. Whether it really is better for us this way or not, it's what he's decided, for now, and maybe his silence can give me a chance to pull myself together enough to realize how ruined he makes me and put a stop to it when he tries again. I hate that I WANT him to use me - what kind of relationship is that? I mean, sure, I'd ultimately want him to love me and care about me, and he so did at one point, but if he can toss that part away, then I really shouldn't want to be with him.

 

It's just that being so very sad really clouds my ability to think clearly about anything. I only know how to sleep and go through the motions of life, hoping that maybe it will lighten up a little. And it looks like it will, it's just such a long, slow process.

 

--- You will get there.. Big gigantic hugs. It will be a rocky road but him staying away is the best gift you could receive right now. His reasons for not showing love just dont matter.. only the end result does. You cant begin to work out what is going on in his head and you'll do your own head in trying (believe me ive tried!)

 

 

You saying "i want him to use me" stuck out for me. I can relate completely -- i think when we are in panic mode of losing this person from our lives, we'll take whatever... and using us is the smallest of bread crumbs, but we think 'better than nothing'.. The problem is, our self-esteem is only taking a beating and its a vicious cycle as we'll then accept even less..

 

Building up your own self-esteem and finding self-love will help you through this path...Something that comes to my mind - I wonder if your husband's cuckholding preferences affects your esteem on some level? -- Perhaps his lack of jealousy/encouragement of this fantasy affects you negatively? -- Im sure this cuckholding has added some complicated layers to an already difficult situation.

 

Also, something to remember with your husband encouraging this fantasy you may feel that you arn't cheating on your husband (at least not as much as if he wasn't aroused by the sexual aspect) --- Your MM is not in this situation. Instead, he lives with a wife who would be mortified to learn of the sexual aspects, thus his guilt would probably be far greater and as a result, his pulling away is a result of this. In any case.. I hope you can find the courage to set yourself free from this .. ITs so very toxic and painful. I feel for you.

[Ophelia25]

Something that comes to my mind - I wonder if your husband's cuckholding preferences affects your esteem on some level? -- Perhaps his lack of jealousy/encouragement of this fantasy affects you negatively? -- Im sure this cuckholding has added some complicated layers to an already difficult situation.

 

Also, something to remember with your husband encouraging this fantasy you may feel that you arn't cheating on your husband (at least not as much as if he wasn't aroused by the sexual aspect) --- Your MM is not in this situation. Instead, he lives with a wife who would be mortified to learn of the sexual aspects, thus his guilt would probably be far greater and as a result, his pulling away is a result of this. In any case.. I hope you can find the courage to set yourself free from this .. ITs so very toxic and painful. I feel for you.

 

I wonder about this. When our affair first began, or when I first realized we had crossed the line beyond friendship, I had a pretty major freakout - guilt, confusion, anxiety attacks, drugs, etc. I wrote his wife a long letter about how we had been talking too much and how we got a lot of things out, but that it was wrong and I was sorry. And, I meant it. But, he just kept hammering away at me slowly until I was both hooked and hardened to the wrongness of it. My husband was supportive, said it was only reasonable for me to still have these feelings for someone I had loved so much and for so long, not to beat myself up about it, etc. When we met in a bus station at 4 AM a couple of years later, after not seeing each other for 10 years or so, and we only held hands and said hello for about 15 minutes, my husband kind of began his fantasy, imagining us kissing in the bus station, wondering why we hadn't, getting excited about it. When we were teenagers my husband and the AP were friends, and the AP would tell my H (then just a friend in our circle) things we had done and he'd get turned on. He says he never got over that. He says we are so sexy together and fun to watch because we have such chemistry. And, though I think I enjoy sex (I'm not really very physically attracted to my husband, but I love him and want him to feel good), having to hear continually about the AP during sex definitely messes with my head. I don't want him to stop, because it's like he's giving permission for the affair, but I also don't feel that close to him afterwards, just used and wanting the AP even more. And, of course, when I'm sad and being ignored by the AP, I want to hear about him even less, so we just don't have sex. He's mostly fine with that, anyway, or seems to be. For being such a perv sometimes, he has an incredibly low sex drive, it seems. And no, he's not cheating on me. Sometimes I wish he were to lessen my own guilt, but he's not.

 

But, yeah, I think the cuckolding thing makes me feel used all around. And alone, oddly. The AP just wants me for sex, the H only wants sex when it's about the AP, and I'm craving affection and not getting it from anyone, nor do I even know how to ask for it. I've tried.

 

AP has mentioned that my husband's interest in the A makes it worse for him, like he feels more inclined to do things, but also more guilty, since his wife is certainly not in the same place. For years, she is the reason I held back, tried to tell him no, resisted, tried to keep it less intense. But, he persisted and I broke down, and of course, after DD she was very hostile (not that I blame her), and she even got on his phone and pretended to be him to engage me in conversation a couple years back, and after that, I really didn't care so much about her. I am sorry that her marriage is screwed up, and that she blames me. But I think it was screwed up before me and she doesn't know how to admit that. I think it was screwed up when he told her, at age 18, that he'd marry her if it weren't for me, and she was so desperate for him that she went for it, and married him a year later because I gallantly stepped out of the way. She's an idiot. Sorry, we all are, I know.

[Forceawakensme]

I wonder about this. When our affair first began, or when I first realized we had crossed the line beyond friendship, I had a pretty major freakout - guilt, confusion, anxiety attacks, drugs, etc. I wrote his wife a long letter about how we had been talking too much and how we got a lot of things out, but that it was wrong and I was sorry. And, I meant it. But, he just kept hammering away at me slowly until I was both hooked and hardened to the wrongness of it. My husband was supportive, said it was only reasonable for me to still have these feelings for someone I had loved so much and for so long, not to beat myself up about it, etc. When we met in a bus station at 4 AM a couple of years later, after not seeing each other for 10 years or so, and we only held hands and said hello for about 15 minutes, my husband kind of began his fantasy, imagining us kissing in the bus station, wondering why we hadn't, getting excited about it. When we were teenagers my husband and the AP were friends, and the AP would tell my H (then just a friend in our circle) things we had done and he'd get turned on. He says he never got over that. He says we are so sexy together and fun to watch because we have such chemistry. And, though I think I enjoy sex (I'm not really very physically attracted to my husband, but I love him and want him to feel good), having to hear continually about the AP during sex definitely messes with my head. I don't want him to stop, because it's like he's giving permission for the affair, but I also don't feel that close to him afterwards, just used and wanting the AP even more. And, of course, when I'm sad and being ignored by the AP, I want to hear about him even less, so we just don't have sex. He's mostly fine with that, anyway, or seems to be. For being such a perv sometimes, he has an incredibly low sex drive, it seems. And no, he's not cheating on me. Sometimes I wish he were to lessen my own guilt, but he's not.

 

But, yeah, I think the cuckolding thing makes me feel used all around. And alone, oddly. The AP just wants me for sex, the H only wants sex when it's about the AP, and I'm craving affection and not getting it from anyone, nor do I even know how to ask for it. I've tried.

 

AP has mentioned that my husband's interest in the A makes it worse for him, like he feels more inclined to do things, but also more guilty, since his wife is certainly not in the same place. For years, she is the reason I held back, tried to tell him no, resisted, tried to keep it less intense. But, he persisted and I broke down, and of course, after DD she was very hostile (not that I blame her), and she even got on his phone and pretended to be him to engage me in conversation a couple years back, and after that, I really didn't care so much about her. I am sorry that her marriage is screwed up, and that she blames me. But I think it was screwed up before me and she doesn't know how to admit that. I think it was screwed up when he told her, at age 18, that he'd marry her if it weren't for me, and she was so desperate for him that she went for it, and married him a year later because I gallantly stepped out of the way. She's an idiot. Sorry, we all are, I know.

 

I can understand that. In essence, every time you've had sex with your husband its been with your AP -- and with your husband's encouragement, its really greenlit your imagination to run away with fantasies of romance. Its mentally bonding you to your MM every time your husband makes sex about you and MM. Your MM hasn't had the same opportunity to let his mind run off into fantasy land -- at least not to the extent you have. He has had to work on compartmentalizing and it seems for him, to keep it just sexual is what worked best. Fear of being caught and the mounting guilt and paranoia no doubt gets in the way and kills or blocks any feelings of love etc

 

I think on your road to healing, working on the cuckolding aspect of your marriage will be essential to avoid the re-opening of your wounds. You cant go NC if you are continually drawn into your husband's fantasies of you and other man, it will keep bringing you back in a painful way.

 

Perhaps you could talk to your husband and tell him whats happened? Maybe you can work together on you going NC.. This may disappoint him (from the sexual angle) but when he realizes how much its all hurting you, it may draw you both closer together in healing you.

[Ophelia25]

Just a quick note because a few people have encouraged me to write here when I find myself wanting to talk to him.

 

The last few years, we've "sort of" celebrated our anniversary. When we were silly teenagers, we established March 25th as our anniversary, neither of us remembers why. First kiss, maybe, not sure. Or first time he talked about us being married someday. We haven't really DONE anything, just talked about it.

 

So, I found an unintrusive, not really celebratory anniversary logo online that said 1991-2016. I posted it on our blog. And I immediately deleted it, no chance that he would have seen it. It always made me a little smug that our anniversary is 5 years more than his and his wife's, and falls about 10 days ahead of theirs. But...ours isn't real. Theirs is. So...go me.

 

Tears are slowing, but I think I feel...sadder. Like somebody ripped out my insides and if I'm really quiet and still, I can still hold the shell together.

 

He said "Hey" yesterday at about 3 PM. I didn't see it right away since I moved the app, but replied "Hey" about an hour and a half later. So, I guess that breaks NC and I'm reset? That's what they say, anyway. It didn't really make me feel much different. I felt a little better, I guess, that he lasted less than two weeks, and then a little angry that he felt like that was needed somehow. And a little angry that I replied, but, I wasn't thinking I'd be able not to. I'm just still debating the answer to the "how are you" question. And, well, all of it.

 

He said we needed "time apart," not NC. So, I read about time apart, and everything I read says that time apart makes relationships stronger. It certainly makes ME feel stronger - I mean, loving him more and wanting him more strongly, not the good kind of stronger. I suppose I need to tell him that if he wants to get rid of me, "time apart" is not the answer, NC is. And he would do it. He would do it HARD CORE. And I don't want him to. And I'm so frustrated that I KNOW that's whats best for us and I can't bring myself to want it. But I also feel like my heart is shutting down a little, so maybe that's coming. I really don't want to continue a relationship with someone who can make me feel so sad so much of the time. Someone who can jerk off to me and then drop me for two weeks like I'm nothing. Someone who thinks its fine to have graphic conversations whenever he feels like it, but who refuses to admit how he feels about me any more than, "You know I have those feelings too, you just always need to be reassured." I think maybe my head is getting a little more prepared, maybe my heart can catch up.

 

I realize I don't have the fascinating drama that a lot of people have on here, but I do appreciate those of you who respond. I think it helps. Somebody mentioned recently that it was difficult seeing how not special their relationship was by seeing how many people go through the exact same thing. That is painful, but perhaps also therapeutic. I keep thinking, "But I get MORE than breadcrumbs. We have a history! I'm his first love! I mean something more!" but the more I read, the more it feels like that's a total load and I'm just some meaningless fun on the side, who now he's trying to get away from because I started feeling things too much.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Ophelia25

[Adoraxx]

Dear Ophelia,

How are you today? I know you're hurting so badly, just like I am. It really hurts to realize that you're only someone he 'jerks off to' (like you said) and that you're only 'needed' when he decides he wants contact. It's painful and it takes so long for your heart to finally believe all of that, doesn't it?

I hope you're having a better day today

 

Hugs,

Adoraxx

[Ophelia25]

Dear Ophelia,

How are you today? I know you're hurting so badly, just like I am. It really hurts to realize that you're only someone he 'jerks off to' (like you said) and that you're only 'needed' when he decides he wants contact. It's painful and it takes so long for your heart to finally believe all of that, doesn't it?

I hope you're having a better day today

 

Hugs,

Adoraxx

 

Thanks for checking. Feeling fairly alone, and like if I could just sleep all the time, I'd be okay. Not like suicidal "sleep forever" stuff, I'm just so tired. And you're right, my stupid heart WON'T believe it, and it's making me both exhausted and mad. But, I keep thinking that whatever is true, however he feels, he is making a pretty clear choice, and even if I could beg and plead and get him back, or screw him and mess up his life even more, I shouldn't want to, because I need to be okay as me and not desperate for and dependent on him, no matter what happens. He sent me a wave and a worried face last night. I sent a wave and put my phone away so as not to be tempted to say anything else. This morning, he had said, "Hey." "How are you?" and about an hour later, "Goodnight." I deliberated for a long time, then sent "OK." I'm so not, but if I said miserable, it would either stroke his ego or push him further away from the crazy girl. If I said, "Great!" it would lessen his guilt. No right answer, I guess. Except none, and I just can't deliberately ignore him yet. He has been a friend for 25 years and more than a friend for, well, about half that, and I'm not ready to ignore him just yet.

 

But I think I'm ready to try to figure out why I think my happiness depends upon this impossibility. I e-mailed a therapist last night, she replied right away and said I could call and set up an appointment. Sigh...I do not want to. I'm so articulate in writing, but face to face I can never express anything - of course, they are trained to figure that out, I know. I just feel like it will be such a long haul, there are so many messed up things I think will have to be dragged out to deal with this. It seems easier just to be sad and sleep.

 

Husband is...okay. He doesn't know all the current issues, just that AP and I have agreed we should not talk for awhile, and cease all sex stuff/flirting kinds of behavior if and when we do talk again (well, that's what AP hesitatingly said among lots of "Idk"s and "I don't have any great plan"s). And H knows I'm all messed up and sad, but having lived with my weird depressive and anxious episodes for 12 years, and seeing firsthand what this guy does to me every time he decides to drop me, he kind of just takes it in stride, knowing I'll pull out of it at some point, or the AP will get lonely again and start talking to me, and I'll cave. Maybe not this time. This is the third time in the last year he's tried to slow things down, or end them, or whatever he's doing, and although I fall apart a little more each time, I also feel a little more determined to figure out how to stop it.

 

So, yeah, thanks again for asking. I am...still trying.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Ophelia25

[privategal]

25 years...cycle after cycle. We are twins. I know he is so ingrained in every aspect of your life.

I hope you will be courageous enough to go to therapy.

It didnt help me much but maybe will help you if its a good match.

Its a great start, and sleeping is most likely ok. Just sending support and a hug!!

I know its a lonely road.

We are all here...

[Ophelia25]

Today I feel a little angry. Still very sad and hurt, but...deeply offended, I guess, that someone who professed to love me for so long would choose to do it this way. If he would be up front and say what he wanted to accomplish, maybe I would feel better. But he's so indecisive and just "trying this out" to see how it works. Why do I have to sit around and be part of his experiments after all this time? And I guess my options are to make his halfhearted attempt to end things more final, or wait around to see when and if he comes back and what his attitude is then. I don't like either of those options.

 

I want to try to talk to him to see what he's thinking, but that hasn't worked in months, so I know there's no point. But I also feel like if it's going to be over over, why does he get to just quietly and contentedly float back into his marriage and family like its nothing while I have to die and fall apart and grieve and pay therapists and hide and pretend? Part of me wants to make him hurt more, give his wife more information, stir things up a bit, be a "woman scorned," etc. I know it won't really help, though. It's just the saying, okay, whatever you think is best, I'll do, really eats at me. Why does it always get to be his call?

[privategal]

Your silence is speaking Ophelia.

If he had a conversation and directly ended it, it would still hurt.

If he wishes to rekindle to fulfill his needs, it will still hurt.

 

He hasnt expressed a firm ending "just in case"

I mean, if you wanted it to be YOUR call...you could delete the blog, close the email, close the face book, change your number.

All of those things he couldnt be courageous enough to do..you could do.

[Ophelia25]

Your silence is speaking Ophelia.

If he had a conversation and directly ended it, it would still hurt.

If he wishes to rekindle to fulfill his needs, it will still hurt.

 

He hasnt expressed a firm ending "just in case"

I mean, if you wanted it to be YOUR call...you could delete the blog, close the email, close the face book, change your number.

All of those things he couldnt be courageous enough to do..you could do.

 

You are so right. I think if I can get the sadness and fog to lift just a little, maybe I can build up my strength enough to make a call. I did it 20 years ago, and was convincing enough that he married someone else. I doubted it was the right call then, despite reassurances from all my loved ones that it was. Now, I'm sure it is the right call. I wonder why it's so much harder to make it. I may not be able to right now, but I do want to work towards it.

[privategal]

You are so right. I think if I can get the sadness and fog to lift just a little, maybe I can build up my strength enough to make a call. I did it 20 years ago, and was convincing enough that he married someone else. I doubted it was the right call then, despite reassurances from all my loved ones that it was. Now, I'm sure it is the right call. I wonder why it's so much harder to make it. I may not be able to right now, but I do want to work towards it.

Im glad you understand my stance isnt to tell you "just get over it, move on.." because I was never able to either.

The thing is, I only ever let him back in all those times because I was heavy in the fog and was so miserable apart that each time I believed we were starting fresh and he was back because he really loved me too and was just as miserable apart. Id be overjoyed to have him back.

Id never dream on his end this was just another go around, he'd relieve his guilt of me being so upset and mad, he'd have his daily penpal back to stroke his ego, all wins for him and he could detach so easily each time, Id be so broken, a mess, my world rocked, would cry an ocean of tears, would only slightly heal...then...back.

Ugh, this time...no, no, no...I burnt the bridge so hard...I cant do it again.

My self esteem suffered for 15 years, Ive felt abandoned and humiliated enough.

My husband would have to watch me cry, Id isolate, my world would be pitch black...I just cant do it even one more time.

I hope you get there. Im pushing the fog off, Im unclenching my fist thats held on so tight, Im letting go.

Its killing me, but Im going to do it.

I dont care how low, how lonely, how hard, the strength of the withdrawal, it all HURTS SO BAD....And Im never going to feel this way again after the grieving is over.

Ive been through HELL with this man and Ive been robbing myself of joy, and my husband too for 15 years.

My love, loyalty, kindness were true and relentless and when he threw it away this last time, I made a promise to myself it was final.

It will be the hardest thing I ever do but it will be worth it. I wont ever be thrown away again. I hope you will find our similiarities and maybe find strength to do the same. You deserve it.

No matter what you decide, you have support here!

[Ophelia25]

My love, loyalty, kindness were true and relentless and when he threw it away this last time, I made a promise to myself it was final.

It will be the hardest thing I ever do but it will be worth it. I wont ever be thrown away again. I hope you will find our similiarities and maybe find strength to do the same. You deserve it.

No matter what you decide, you have support here!

 

This. I feel so much like this. I have been so giving and kind to him, to the point of ridiculousness I guess, if that's possible. Whatever mood he finds himself in, I have tried to adjust to meet his "needs," whether that be a friend, a lover, a sex object, a tutor, or just someone to push away for awhile out of guilt. When he went dark for two weeks a couple of months ago with no real explanation I wrote to him, after it was over, that I wasn't sure if be able to go through it again. I suppose I was hoping he'd see how hurt I was and not do it again. I have dragged my husband into it (not unwittingly, though!) and wasted many weeks of what should be happiness pining and regretting and wishing for the impossible. I really do love the AP, and would put every effort into being just friends if I thought for a moment it could work. But there are too many feelings and too much history for that, I think.

 

I think I read that you and your AP did manage to sustain a friendship for some time after the A, is that right? It seems that now, you feel that was probably not a good idea? Or do you think it was worth it? My problem with trying to be "friends" now is that to him, that means he ignores me until he needs something from me, and then he will talk to me. I don't think that's really friendship. But I also cannot imagine the rest of my life without him being somewhere out there, in some capacity. I've always been pretty realistic about the fact that we would probably remain with our respective spouses. Life is too complex to uproot it all and we'd hurt too many people. What I wanted is just an acknowledgement from him that we WANT it to be different, and then to muddle together through our lamentation. I suppose people would say that's impossible, but we did it pretty well for about 5 years. I'm not sure what's changed, except it got more intensely sexual, and he then feels more guilty. Says he can't control himself when he talks to me. So maybe he thinks staying away from me for awhile will help that. I find it does the complete opposite for me.

 

Thank you for your input. It really does help to see someone who is in a very similar situation but who has great determination. I will work toward it.

[privategal]

I think the strategy of him staying my friend was to use me to get over me.

If he wrote each day and I showed that cheerful "Im ok, no problems, Im not upset, were cool" and was just nice, friendly and happy...I think he was like "whew, she doesnt think Im a jerk for stringing her along, I will be able to back away from her slowly, recommit to my wife and family as if it all never happened, I still look like the good guy to both women...Im all set"

So he came back to be friends to ease guilt, smooth it all over, then do a slow fade.

I caught onto some pulling away, Id pull away harder and he'd pull me back almost like "wait, I say when its over, I will control this, relax, were friends, were good"

I dont know if Im making sense but I felt like you...Id rather have him in my life because being apart hurts too much and felt like we were strangers and enemies.

Id invested so many years being a great person in his life so throwing it all away felt like failure.

TRUE friendship never ends. Ours ended.

I think post A friendship is just really 2 people who cant let go, are confused, know the goodbye is gonna hurt, so we/they play nice and it STILL hurts.

I think honestly firm clean endings are best and still HURT but less than still being gaslighted and talking friendly when you love them and its maybe even unrequited. I could go on for ages but I used to roll my eyes and disregard all "cant be friends with xap" posts.

Trust me, its a whole other hell.

The kindest thing for you will be to part ways forever. It will be excruciating but "friends" is its own hell and is basically a drug out extended goodbye of its own.

[Adoraxx]

This. I feel so much like this. I have been so giving and kind to him, to the point of ridiculousness I guess, if that's possible. Whatever mood he finds himself in, I have tried to adjust to meet his "needs," whether that be a friend, a lover, a sex object, a tutor, or just someone to push away for awhile out of guilt. When he went dark for two weeks a couple of months ago with no real explanation I wrote to him, after it was over, that I wasn't sure if be able to go through it again. I suppose I was hoping he'd see how hurt I was and not do it again. I have dragged my husband into it (not unwittingly, though!) and wasted many weeks of what should be happiness pining and regretting and wishing for the impossible. I really do love the AP, and would put every effort into being just friends if I thought for a moment it could work. But there are too many feelings and too much history for that, I think.

 

I think I read that you and your AP did manage to sustain a friendship for some time after the A, is that right? It seems that now, you feel that was probably not a good idea? Or do you think it was worth it? My problem with trying to be "friends" now is that to him, that means he ignores me until he needs something from me, and then he will talk to me. I don't think that's really friendship. But I also cannot imagine the rest of my life without him being somewhere out there, in some capacity. I've always been pretty realistic about the fact that we would probably remain with our respective spouses. Life is too complex to uproot it all and we'd hurt too many people. What I wanted is just an acknowledgement from him that we WANT it to be different, and then to muddle together through our lamentation. I suppose people would say that's impossible, but we did it pretty well for about 5 years. I'm not sure what's changed, except it got more intensely sexual, and he then feels more guilty. Says he can't control himself when he talks to me. So maybe he thinks staying away from me for awhile will help that. I find it does the complete opposite for me.

 

Thank you for your input. It really does help to see someone who is in a very similar situation but who has great determination. I will work toward it.

 

Hey Ophelia,

I just wanted to say that I'm constantly nodding when I'm reading your posts!! Our situations seem to be very similar although in my situation we didn't do it 'pretty well' for about 5 years, but it was pretty bad most of the time (It's almost 8 years now since the A began and he has gone quiet on me completely since September last year --- I've had a few run ins with him though and each time he was very cold)

 

I got to hear the "I can't control myself" line too and "I feel sooo guilty". I don't know about that though.

 

Anyway, it's nice to read your posts because I see so many similarities