Question for OW's of MM

[13Hearts]

I'm spitballing here, but what about knowing that you were cast aside for someone else? It's what hurt as a bs, not knowing that I was in a game I didn't know about, that I had been compared and competing with a stranger. In my marriage, no less! Maybe an ow feels like she "lost" to the contender?

 

I never viewed my wh as a prize btw. It was all humiliating.

 

I don't feel this way at all. He is married and choosing to stay married. to the same person. I never competed with BW, but I'm not the competitive type.

[Midwestmissy]

I don't feel this way at all. He is married and choosing to stay married. to the same person. I never competed with BW, but I'm not the competitive type.

 

I threw it out as a possibility of an affair ending being seemingly more painful than a regular break up. Not suggesting that the game is always on. It just was in my case.

[Doublegold]

I was married 27 years (three separated) When it ended I never looked back--we remain friends. Our adult "children" are fantastic.

 

As far as affairs--Is love real and true only if continued? For some, how you are left--or not left-- can be bottomless --not only in the moment, but in the way it gives lie to all the moments that proceeded it.

 

Just a thought. Eight years in no D-day, no love lost here.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Doublegold
edited to not edit sorry

[Lady2163]

I don't feel this way at all. He is married and choosing to stay married. to the same person. I never competed with BW, but I'm not the competitive type.

 

We're spinning off into a grey area for me. I did compare myself to his wife. Not to his face, but just to myself. She is 11 years older than I am. I look younger than she does, I have better breasts than she does, I'm stronger than she is, BUT she is much more hwp than I am.

 

I read once - on here, I think - that the competition is largely not talked about. I think many OWs know that if they nag or demand or make the time together unpleasant and drama filled, MM will head for the hills. Unless the sex is that good. But the negative behavior is the pre cursor to bunny boiling and I think they start working on an exit strategy.

 

And the wife continues on in her normal way, confronting him when he is late, slacks off or doesn't meet her expectations. I've always wondered if people (not just the wives, but husbands) knew that criticism and negativity were making the spouse unhappy, would they temper it? I was miserable in my marriage, so I probably wouldn't have. If I could go back to that day, the day that broke the camels back, I don't know if I would change my actions to keep him from leaving.

 

But as mentioned, the OW is always happy to see him, warm and comforting and living in a sort of honeymoon fantasy bubble. She knows what will happen if she is a shrew.

[ShatteredLady]

Do single OW ever believe that the MM intentionally created the 'competition' between the OW & BS in the OW's head?

 

I 'get' that they can't say (even to themselves sometimes) "My W is great! She's the love of my life, the mother of my children, my forever partner". There has to be some justifications for stepping into the affair.

 

It's just sometimes I get the feeling that some MM intentionally create the sense of 'battle' for the OW. Am I making sense? "My W is a nightmare but I'm posting loving stuff on Facebook." Etc. I don't know. Sometimes it feels like they're doing things to rub the OW face in it unnecessarily.

 

I DON'T post lovey dovey stuff or our dates on Facebook & I'm NOT having an A! Maybe I'm just not the Facebook generation.

 

Are they THAT thoughtless or is it intentional? Stopping the OW from complaining or rocking the boat? Keep her guessing?

 

If a MM can lie that he's busy at work, has business trips etc. he can just as easily lie & NOT go on date night or weekends away etc. with the W.

 

My personal experiences have been too weird & confusing. My H didn't have 'normal' affairs so I don't know...

 

I hope you guys know that my intentions aren't mean. I wonder these things. I'm a woman & mother first now. I truly feel desperately sorry (& a weird sense of guilt because my H has been guilty) for hurting OW.

 

I can only imagine the pain of the OW. The OW & the BS use so many similar words. I think we understand eachother more & could heal better if we acknowledged each others pain & stopped taking it out on the other woman in the triangle.

 

I'm starting to see the MM as the only truly guilty party really. (In many situations)

[Doublegold]

Shattered Lady. You truly stand alone as someone I view as transparent to the 10th degree. Kudos to you--I sense you're seeking to find answers while exposing you own fears and hurt and pain.

 

In my own Affair there was never any competition or bad mouthing from OM towards his wife. It never happened. Ever.

 

We were transparent. I saw his real world, and he wanted mine.

[brothers343]

I cannot compare the trauma of an affair-break-up with a regular-break-up, since I haven't experienced a 'regular' break up. But here's my take on it from my point of view:

 

0. start:

the very start of the affair lacks the hopeful start of a normal relationship--from day 0 it's 'un-koshar'.

 

1. dirty:

I'm in love, and what I'm experiencing is beautiful, but the 'world' tells me what I'm experiencing is 'dirty'. It destroys my spirit.

 

2. secrecy:

I wish I could tell the world how much I'm in love with this person; instead I must hide it all, because it's seen as 'filthy'.

 

3. temporary:

From the start I know it's not meant to last; constantly questioning "will it last another day or another week at best?" It's painful to be in love and be hanging by a thread knowing it'll snap any minute.

 

4. disposable:

I know I come second; his wife is his first. When he sees me depends on when he can spare that time. If his wife needs him, he cancels on me.

 

5. silent comparison:

I know he loves his wife more than me; he has a history with his wife, while I'm just a distraction; I know he will spend another 30 years with her--maybe another 30 min with me. He has family and children with her, nothing but cheap fun with me.

 

6. alone:

when I feel hurt, he's not coming over to comfort me; neither can I tell other people since this whole thing is one big secret.

 

7. judgement:

I'm judged by the entire world for being an immoral mistress. Even when I'm hurt, even when I'm telling my therapist, I wonder how she might be judging me.

 

8. unequal partners:

I was never able to experience what it feels like to share equal partnership experience. When he comes, when he breaks it off, all depends on his terms. I can't even get angry with him because then I might lose him.

 

9. constant fear:

Fear of losing him--always at the back of my mind--he could dump me any minute.

 

10. inevitable end:

from the start, I know it will end in PAIN--just a matter of time.

And when it finally does end, he will toss me out and move on with his life.

 

11. End of the affair:

He's home, happy, rekindling with his wife--life better than ever, while I am alone, and broken.

 

12. End after the end:

I just wonder in silence now:

did any part of it matter even for a second?

was any part of it real even for a second?

did any part of it mean anything to him?

or was the whole thing an ugly big circus and I was just a clown and a string puppet for his entertainment?

 

From the beginning to the end: it's built on lies, deception and a deep confusing FOG.

 

Burnt......I feel your pain. This is one of the best post I have read so far in this forum.

[jenkins95]

This post should be captured somehow, it spells the whole thing out with such transparent simplicity. Such a shame if this gets lost in the middle of a thread - it's brilliant. It would be nice if it could be made sticky. Great stuff burnt - once again.

 

I cannot compare the trauma of an affair-break-up with a regular-break-up, since I haven't experienced a 'regular' break up. But here's my take on it from my point of view:

 

0. start:

the very start of the affair lacks the hopeful start of a normal relationship--from day 0 it's 'un-koshar'.

 

1. dirty:

I'm in love, and what I'm experiencing is beautiful, but the 'world' tells me what I'm experiencing is 'dirty'. It destroys my spirit.

 

2. secrecy:

I wish I could tell the world how much I'm in love with this person; instead I must hide it all, because it's seen as 'filthy'.

 

3. temporary:

From the start I know it's not meant to last; constantly questioning "will it last another day or another week at best?" It's painful to be in love and be hanging by a thread knowing it'll snap any minute.

 

4. disposable:

I know I come second; his wife is his first. When he sees me depends on when he can spare that time. If his wife needs him, he cancels on me.

 

5. silent comparison:

I know he loves his wife more than me; he has a history with his wife, while I'm just a distraction; I know he will spend another 30 years with her--maybe another 30 min with me. He has family and children with her, nothing but cheap fun with me.

 

6. alone:

when I feel hurt, he's not coming over to comfort me; neither can I tell other people since this whole thing is one big secret.

 

7. judgement:

I'm judged by the entire world for being an immoral mistress. Even when I'm hurt, even when I'm telling my therapist, I wonder how she might be judging me.

 

8. unequal partners:

I was never able to experience what it feels like to share equal partnership experience. When he comes, when he breaks it off, all depends on his terms. I can't even get angry with him because then I might lose him.

 

9. constant fear:

Fear of losing him--always at the back of my mind--he could dump me any minute.

 

10. inevitable end:

from the start, I know it will end in PAIN--just a matter of time.

And when it finally does end, he will toss me out and move on with his life.

 

11. End of the affair:

He's home, happy, rekindling with his wife--life better than ever, while I am alone, and broken.

 

12. End after the end:

I just wonder in silence now:

did any part of it matter even for a second?

was any part of it real even for a second?

did any part of it mean anything to him?

or was the whole thing an ugly big circus and I was just a clown and a string puppet for his entertainment?

 

From the beginning to the end: it's built on lies, deception and a deep confusing FOG.

[HappyAgain2014]

I'm spitballing here, but what about knowing that you were cast aside for someone else? It's what hurt as a bs, not knowing that I was in a game I didn't know about, that I had been compared and competing with a stranger. In my marriage, no less! Maybe an ow feels like she "lost" to the contender?

 

I never viewed my wh as a prize btw. It was all humiliating.

 

I wasn't cast aide for his wife. I was cast aside for him. I don't think he was singularly thinking of his wife or his children. In fact, it was an email from him in the end that made his motivation (himself) abundantly clear to me. That's why I told her. He emotionally tortured her. At least I knew. She had a right to know.

 

I didn't view myself as being in a competition. Everybody lost.

[rainbowsandkittens]

Shattered- thinking about that question is interesting. I do think my AP set up a 'competition' of sorts. Or maybe that's too strong a word. Maybe it wasn't intentional. Maybe it was. I don't know anything about his partner- her name or what she looks like. Nothing other than the little bits he told me. But he did tell me about things she didn't do- for sure sexually. It was always, 'no one's ever done that for me before' or 'she never does that for me' or 'she would never do xyz'. It was telling me I'm the best at xyz. Which doesn't make me want to do it to compete with her (or anyone else) per se but more to make him happy. To provide the things he needed and perhaps in doing that- making myself more valuable to him.

[Doublegold]

I cannot compare the trauma of an affair-break-up with a regular-break-up, since I haven't experienced a 'regular' break up. But here's my take on it from my point of view:

 

0. start:

the very start of the affair lacks the hopeful start of a normal relationship--from day 0 it's 'un-koshar'.

 

1. dirty:

I'm in love, and what I'm experiencing is beautiful, but the 'world' tells me what I'm experiencing is 'dirty'. It destroys my spirit.

 

2. secrecy:

I wish I could tell the world how much I'm in love with this person; instead I must hide it all, because it's seen as 'filthy'.

 

3. temporary:

From the start I know it's not meant to last; constantly questioning "will it last another day or another week at best?" It's painful to be in love and be hanging by a thread knowing it'll snap any minute.

 

4. disposable:

I know I come second; his wife is his first. When he sees me depends on when he can spare that time. If his wife needs him, he cancels on me.

 

5. silent comparison:

I know he loves his wife more than me; he has a history with his wife, while I'm just a distraction; I know he will spend another 30 years with her--maybe another 30 min with me. He has family and children with her, nothing but cheap fun with me.

 

6. alone:

when I feel hurt, he's not coming over to comfort me; neither can I tell other people since this whole thing is one big secret.

 

7. judgement:

I'm judged by the entire world for being an immoral mistress. Even when I'm hurt, even when I'm telling my therapist, I wonder how she might be judging me.

 

8. unequal partners:

I was never able to experience what it feels like to share equal partnership experience. When he comes, when he breaks it off, all depends on his terms. I can't even get angry with him because then I might lose him.

 

9. constant fear:

Fear of losing him--always at the back of my mind--he could dump me any minute.

 

10. inevitable end:

from the start, I know it will end in PAIN--just a matter of time.

And when it finally does end, he will toss me out and move on with his life.

 

11. End of the affair:

He's home, happy, rekindling with his wife--life better than ever, while I am alone, and broken.

 

12. End after the end:

I just wonder in silence now:

did any part of it matter even for a second?

was any part of it real even for a second?

did any part of it mean anything to him?

or was the whole thing an ugly big circus and I was just a clown and a string puppet for his entertainment?

 

From the beginning to the end: it's built on lies, deception and a deep confusing FOG.

 

This is a very heartfelt and heartbreaking post. Burnt I am deeply sorry for your questioning and sorrow. While some points are relatable....I can truly say--

 

This is not my story. And if a D-day happened tomorrow...It would NOT be my story. Do NOT question--remember who you are Burnt--you are NOT defined by them.

 

Take Care, move forward and NEVER forget who you are.

[Popsicle]

Do single OW ever believe that the MM intentionally created the 'competition' between the OW & BS in the OW's head?

 

I 'get' that they can't say (even to themselves sometimes) "My W is great! She's the love of my life, the mother of my children, my forever partner". There has to be some justifications for stepping into the affair.

 

YES.

 

Even though, we never spoke about his M or his wife (Thank God) there were a couple of times where he slipped and said something. One time was towards the end when he felt like he was going to lose me and was trying to cling, and it just rings in my head (still does) when he said that he wanted to get away from them (wife and kids) after just getting back from being away from them for several months for work. I was so pissed upon hearing that! (still am) I don't know why, but I think mostly because I felt like it was uncalled for and rude. I felt angry for his wife, because from the little I had to go in, it seemed like they had a good marriage. I don't know for sure, but I think they must have. I felt like he was just blurting out some lie just to cling to me, which was disingenuous to me and pisses me off and disrespectful to her. He wanted me to love on him and was trashing her to get it. But he didn't mean it. I didn't like that at all.

[The Aftermath]

It's no secret that the end of the A is traumatic. Traumatic enough that many of you seek advice here. Which is a good thing

 

But, have any of you been through a divorce or even broken up from an LTR with a single guy where thoughts of marriage entered your thinking?

 

My question is why does ending the A seem to cause more trauma than other break ups?

 

Please don't think this is some sort of criticism or invitation for bashing. I know the hurt is real.

 

Not divorced here, but have been separated from my H for 3 years. I can honestly say that when MM left me it devastated me, but it a different way.

 

When my H left me he still loved me - I had ZERO doubts about this. He just could not forgive the cheating and he was becoming this angry, hateful person that he didn't recognize...he was starting to take it out on our girls. I was riddled with guilt and after being with someone over a decade it took me a long time to get back to normal. I had panic attacks a few months after he left.

 

When MM left me I do believe that he loved me, but it crushed my soul that he was going back to his W after making plans to divorce (he had already moved out, shared custody arrangements, CS in place, etc)...so I really believed we had a future together. We had an A 8 years ago so I honestly felt this time around we had a chance. TBH sometimes I feel like I would rather he cheated on me with a random person than go back to his W as strange as that sounds...the fact he went back to an abusive M that he wasn't happy with makes me feel like I never stopped being a mistress (Despite being "officially" together those few months) and that made me feel used & worthless.

[Adoraxx]

I cannot compare the trauma of an affair-break-up with a regular-break-up, since I haven't experienced a 'regular' break up. But here's my take on it from my point of view:

 

0. start:

the very start of the affair lacks the hopeful start of a normal relationship--from day 0 it's 'un-koshar'.

 

1. dirty:

I'm in love, and what I'm experiencing is beautiful, but the 'world' tells me what I'm experiencing is 'dirty'. It destroys my spirit.

 

2. secrecy:

I wish I could tell the world how much I'm in love with this person; instead I must hide it all, because it's seen as 'filthy'.

 

3. temporary:

From the start I know it's not meant to last; constantly questioning "will it last another day or another week at best?" It's painful to be in love and be hanging by a thread knowing it'll snap any minute.

 

4. disposable:

I know I come second; his wife is his first. When he sees me depends on when he can spare that time. If his wife needs him, he cancels on me.

 

5. silent comparison:

I know he loves his wife more than me; he has a history with his wife, while I'm just a distraction; I know he will spend another 30 years with her--maybe another 30 min with me. He has family and children with her, nothing but cheap fun with me.

 

6. alone:

when I feel hurt, he's not coming over to comfort me; neither can I tell other people since this whole thing is one big secret.

 

7. judgement:

I'm judged by the entire world for being an immoral mistress. Even when I'm hurt, even when I'm telling my therapist, I wonder how she might be judging me.

 

8. unequal partners:

I was never able to experience what it feels like to share equal partnership experience. When he comes, when he breaks it off, all depends on his terms. I can't even get angry with him because then I might lose him.

 

9. constant fear:

Fear of losing him--always at the back of my mind--he could dump me any minute.

 

10. inevitable end:

from the start, I know it will end in PAIN--just a matter of time.

And when it finally does end, he will toss me out and move on with his life.

 

11. End of the affair:

He's home, happy, rekindling with his wife--life better than ever, while I am alone, and broken.

 

12. End after the end:

I just wonder in silence now:

did any part of it matter even for a second?

was any part of it real even for a second?

did any part of it mean anything to him?

or was the whole thing an ugly big circus and I was just a clown and a string puppet for his entertainment?

 

From the beginning to the end: it's built on lies, deception and a deep confusing FOG.

 

this is exactly how I feel too.... everything you mentioned

[Bufo]

Well I certainly got more replies than I thought I would. Thoughtful replies, too.

 

I guess it's one of those Venus/Mars things. When a guy's marriage or LTR breaks up and he isn't happy with it, at most some of his perceptive friends might take him for a drink, to a sporting event or even the local strip club depending on he preferences of the perceptive friend. And it's expected to be a one time thing never to be mentioned again. So, we men usually are left to recover by ourselves for the most part. Haven't been involved in breakup of A so I can't address that too well. But I've never heard of the OM bringing it up with me. I did once experience this, and he reply was that 80's bumper sticker cliche' of "**** happens".

[loveisanaction]

I think a reason why the ending of an affair is very traumatic is because the risks involved are far greater.

 

For example, if you’re in a relationship with a single person and you are single, when you break-up, your heart gets broken but you get over it with pride.

 

If you get into an inappropriate relationship with someone who is married (or you are married) the stakes are much higher. Affairs are built on lies, deceit, secrets and stolen moments. You willingly have to put away your pride, your shame, your guilt and any moral obligation you owed towards yourself. To do this, a person has step out of their usual selves.

 

In order to keep an affair going (no matter how unhappy your marriage or the other’s person marriage is) you have to become a different person, the opposite of who you once were. When that affair is over, it’s not just your heart that is broken; it’s the you who you once were before the affair started that is also broken. It takes a toll on a you.

 

When a relationship between two single people is over, you can still with pride look at yourself in the mirror and say “My hopes and dreams have been dashed, my heart is broken but I will find love again.”

 

But when an affair is over you say “I lied, I cheated, I deceived, I hurt people, I hid away any moral obligation I owed to myself …and all for what? No ring, no wedding, no happy ending. So I did all of that for what exactly?"

 

The trauma you would have done to yourself is extremely overwhelming. Which is why after an affair, some people need therapy. Not only because you need to recognize why you entered into an affair but because of the damage you inflicted upon yourself as a result of it.

Edited March 19, 2016 by loveisanaction

[Popsicle]

I think a reason why the ending of an affair is very traumatic is because the risks involved are far greater.

 

For example, if you’re in a relationship with a single person and you are single, when you break-up, your heart gets broken but you get over it with pride.

 

If you get into an inappropriate relationship with someone who is married (or you are married) the stakes are much higher. Affairs are built on lies, deceit, secrets and stolen moments. You willingly have to put away your pride, your shame, your guilt and any moral obligation you owed towards yourself. To do this, a person has step out of their usual selves.

 

In order to keep an affair going (no matter how unhappy your marriage or the other’s person marriage is) you have to become a different person, the opposite of who you once were. When that affair is over, it’s not just your heart that is broken; it’s the you who you once were before the affair started that is also broken. It takes a toll on a you.

 

When a relationship between two single people is over, you can still with pride look at yourself in the mirror and say “My hopes and dream have been dashed, my heart is broken but I will find love again.”

 

But when an affair is over you say “I lied, I cheated, I deceived, I hurt people, I hid away any moral obligation I owed to myself …and all for what? No ring, no wedding, no happy ending. So I did all of that for what exactly?

 

The trauma you would have done to yourself is extremely overwhelming. Which is why after an affair, some people need therapy.

 

That's an interesting line of thought and one I think most AP's can relate to. But what makes this even more complicated and confusing is that I have read from Esther Perel (and I believe and can see this too) that many married AP's step into affairs not because they want to get away from their spouse, but because they want to get away from the person that they have become. So in a sense it's like an escape into being another person that they want to be and it feels good. This is in direct conflict with the line of thought that you mentioned above. But that is no surprise either. Everything about affairs is conflicting and confusing.

[2016forme]

It's no secret that the end of the A is traumatic. Traumatic enough that many of you seek advice here. Which is a good thing

 

But, have any of you been through a divorce or even broken up from an LTR with a single guy where thoughts of marriage entered your thinking?

 

My question is why does ending the A seem to cause more trauma than other break ups?

 

Please don't think this is some sort of criticism or invitation for bashing. I know the hurt is real.

 

Hello, to answer your question, I really think that ending an affair takes a different turn then just ending a romantic relationship. When you talk about ending an affair, someone is going to be devastated, lost, confused, upset along with a sea of emotions. The adrenaline rush is gone. Someone feelings get hurt.The fantasy and excitement of having an affair disappears because reality sets in.The fun and games are over.The parade is long gone. Now it's time to face the music.

 

I find this to be especially true as I have read some stories of how the OW has become so infatuated with her MM. The ugly truth is that one or both people involved in the affair don't want to let go. They want to carry on even though it's wrong.

 

I think the hardest part of ending an affair is learning to let go and live your life. People become attached in one way or another. I have seen some people who are ending affairs face bitter consequences and serious ramifications for their actions. It's good to get out of the affair fog while it's early. In the long run, you will be happy you escaped.

[Grapesofwrath]

I am divorced and no break-up before or after could compare to that. Not because I was so in love with ex-husband. I wasn't. We had an unhealthy marriage that needed to end. But divorce meant that I could not see my children every day, which was just devastating for me. We lost our home. I was destroyed financially.

 

For me, there could be no pain greater than being separated from my children, who were 5 and 7 years old at the time. My worry for their welfare was overwhelming. I physically ached for them. It was torture to not know where they were, if they had eaten a healthy dinner, if they had been kissed goodnight before bedtime. My ex-husband has never allowed me to enter his home, so I didn't know where they slept, if they had clean clothes to wear, if they were warm and cozy at night.

 

I have gone through a few break-ups since then. Left a serial cheater. Ended it with xMM. Painful as they were, neither could hold a candle to divorce.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Grapesofwrath

[elaine567]

Seems to me many OW are vulnerable in some way to start with, else they would have told the MM to shove off in the first place.

At the beginning the affair is usually fun and filled with excitement, but rapidly enters into a roller coaster of hot and cold, push pull, broken promises, fear, lying and future faking that is often more akin to psychological torture than anything else.

The whole situation, screws them up badly mentally and then when it ends they collapse in a heap, mentally exhausted, sad, damaged and depressed.

 

It causes more trauma than normal "single" break ups, as the OW is often in a very bad place due to the rigours of the affair, and the break up is the very last straw on a back that has been cracked for a very long time.

 

[Of course some OW use the MM as merely a FWB and that tends to work out better for them, as long as they keep "feelings" out of it.]