Not sure if she is actually "trying"

[nessrox]

Hi,

 

I proposed to my Fiance on Christmas and 2 weeks later on Jan 4th she said she wanted to go to school when we have a 6 month old baby and a 3 year old child. I was okay with her going a couple days a week to school but her school was for cosmetology and is Tuesday - Friday and all day Saturday. I asked her to wait until September to go to school so she could look into if this is what she really wanted and so we had time to look for a nanny and come up with a schedule. She wanted to start the next week for school. I told her no at first and everything seemed to change with her, she stopped saying I love you, giving me kisses or showing me affection. After one week I told her you know what I want you to go to school and she became happy again. A couple days later I wrote pros and cons of waiting to go to school until September, her family and my family agreed she needed to wait cause she has a 6 month old baby that needs her mother at night. She told me she was going to go to school anyways and I had no choice and she was starting next week. I told her that isn't right and if you decide this without me then our relationship is over, she handed me back the ring, cried and ran upstairs.

 

Two days later I told her I made a mistake and I want her to go to school and I want to make our relationship better and spend less time working and more time with her. She came back with "I love you, but I am not in love with you anymore" and she needs a break, because she feels like I haven't been there for her and the kids emotionally this past year and I am working to much. Also I literally gave this woman everything she wants, bought her a landrover car, louiss vouttion purse for christmas, 3CT ring for christmas, $1000 camera for her birthday, I gave her everything and took her out on dates every weekend. She asked me to support her through school for 6 months even though it meant not getting back together with her, I said maybe, and I have to think about it, she cried and said I shouldn't have to think about it. A couple days later I tell her okay I will support her through school even though we were on a break. 4 Days goes by and she asks to go to her friend Laura's house, however I didn't really trust her and she has changed her password to her phone, but I knew what she changed it to, so I was able to track her, I caught her at a guys apartment complex and she spent the night there until 1PM the next day, she said nothing happened besides them talking, and the guy tried to kiss her but she said she pushed him away but laid in his bed the entire night til the next day, she said it was suppose to be innocent.

 

I told her that day she needs to choose whether to work on our relationship or end it and we move on. She choose to work on it, so I took 3 days off work and we went to counseling the next day. 3 days later she drops out of counseling cause she doesn't want to work on the relationship she says she wants to work on herself. I told her no and she needs to move out of the house before school starts cause its unacceptable. During this time she still continued to talk to the guy and call him late at night. She lied to me again where she was going about a week later and ended up going to the guy's place again I caught her again and told her she needs to have all her stuff out by the next day. She comes home that night and tells me everything, and said nothing is going on but she will be out.

 

She moves out and comes running home crying after a couple of hours, she becomes ill for a couple days and I take care of her and watch the kids and take more time off of work. After she's feeling better I ask her so are we going to work on the relationship and she goes nuts saying I am in no mind set to think about that right now, we argue that night. After that one night I ask her to leave the house and she says she will be out by the next day, I ask her to leave that night and she says no, I tell her whatever please be out by the next day. She overhears me that night on the phone talking about going out with some buddies while we were on our break and some girl offering to give me a BJ/Sex at her place, I rejected the woman offering this because I wasn't in a position to do something like that, she hears all of this. Goes nuts that night and leaves the house and slams the door hard, starts texting me saying "I'm just trying to find myself to be a better woman for you and your trying to find someone else", I told her I'm not gonna argue about some girl I rejected at a bar, we keep texting back and forth and I finally stopped because she was playing the victim. She comes storming in the house and throws her phone at my face, because she logged into my instagram and facebook and saw me talking to a past co-worker (Nothing Sexual, all friendly talk) she goes nuts, takes the sheets off my bed and yells at me, I ask her to leave, she jumps on the bed lays down and says no way, and that I should leave, she asks why I love her and tells me why she loves me, then goes in and out of the room that night and starts to try and cuddle with me but nothing intimate. We end up cuddling that night. Then the next day she decides to move out and I ask her to stay but she says its best to separate so she can miss me. She leaves the kids with me at night for about a week and then we get into another small fight about the mail. We come to an agreement of a 1 month break without talking to anybody, no guy, no girls, she breaks contact with the guy during this time.

 

After 3 days we get into another fight cause she wants me to pay for her gas, car payment, and car insurance, during the 1 month break. Her gas runs about $120 a week because of the drive to work, the house, and her place. I tell her I will pay for you car insurance and car payment but not the gas, she gets mad and says, are we over then? cause I need to know if our relationship is over. I don't respond, she says if you don't respond within 10 minutes its over, I didn't respond to her and she said that's fine were done. I text her then please return the keys to the house to my place, because we can co-parent without her living in the house. She goes crazy comes home that night and starts yelling at me, I ask her to leave but doesn't, she calls her mom over and they both come in the house and yelling at me. I called the cops and explained what was going on. The cops came and calmed everything down.

 

The next day, she goes to a co-worker party and goes to the guys house that night, I text her I guess it's truly over since you can't keep your word about seeing the guy, she says you called the cops on me and tried keeping our kids away from me, of course its over. She tells me she no longer has feelings for me and can never see us together again right now.

She spends the night at the guys house that night and the next night.

 

A week goes by and I put my notice in to leave the house I am renting, and start moving my stuff out, to look for a new place to live and move in with the kids, she goes nuts and we end up talking for awhile and she says she is confused and feels like she is making the worst decision in the world to leave me and leave our family. I tell her we can either try this relationship again and you go to school and if our relationship fails we can work something out, but at least you can go to school or we can go our separate ways and I will let you live in my new house until you find your own place to live in.

 

A couple days go by and she says she wants to go to school and live with me but doesn't want to work on the relationship at this time because its toxic. She said she broke off whatever she had with the guy because it is important she goes to school. Not for me, not for the family, but because she wants to go to school. She also told me she had feelings for the guy and still does. I told her that wasn't an option. We either work on our relationship and she can go to school or go our separate ways.

 

At this time I completely lost it and told her I hope you do well in school and your career, but we cannot live together, I need to heal and move on, but I will help as much as I can with watching the kids during your school. I told her your not going to use me to make your life easier. You have feelings for someone else, we need to go our separate ways, there's nothing more to discuss.

 

I love this girl, and I've done everything for her, but I feel like she just wants to use me. All I asked her was to try again in our relationship but I feel like I am forcing it. She calls me selfish because I don't want to live with her for 6 months if were not together or at least trying to work on our relationship, even if we have children together.

 

I just feel like if were living together again without working on our relationship, she won't see what life is really like without me or missing me. She hasn't had to pay a bill or rent for the past 3 years of our 4 year relationship. Plus she has feelings for some guy and the only reason she is ending it with him is because she says going to school is more important....I don't know anymore. I filed for custody and were going to a mediator this month and court as well. I asked for 50/50 cause that what she said she would give me but now is trying to take them M-F, she works every night as a server from 6PM to 2AM so she wouldn't be able to put the kids to bed at night.

 

What do you think about this and what do you think is best to do? Am I being unfair? Am I being selfish?

[ExpatInItaly]

Oh dear. What a mess.

 

You're not being selfish or unfair. She wanted to live an easy life at your expense while she's interested in some other guy. You've done the right thing. This isn't healthy for you or your children.

 

Proceed with the separation. Speak to your lawyer about custody and visitation. You really need to look out for yourself and your kids now.

 

Out of curiosity, has the relationship always been this dramatic?

[basil67]

I didn't make it to the end of your post. Basically, I couldn't get past you telling her that she couldn't do the course she wanted to do. Or that she had to postpone it to suit your timeline. It comes across as being incredibly controlling on your part. Why did you not work with her to try and find a way to make it doable?

 

If the two of you can afford all those luxury gifts, then you can afford a nanny or childcare. Or, she could sell the Landrover or 3ct ring to fund them herself.

 

I can see why she withdrew from you.

[fireflywy]

I would let her go and if she comes back, then work on it. However, you my friend need to REALLY work on yourself. You said repeatedly how you bought her x, y, and z but I get the sense that you haven't done so from a true seat of affection but rather CONTROL.

 

You buy her these things as a means of control and quid pro quo whereby you can fall back to your defensive position and say "I did all of this for you, why won't you do X for me?" It's actually deeply manipulative. It's manipulative to the point where your relationship is so unbalanced that instead of a partner you have a hostage who is confused about what you provide vs your skewed reciprocity mechanisms which have built into control.

 

Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but I'm guessing that if you were able to buy her a Land Rover that you're a highly organized person used to getting what he wants career wise which is pouring over into you relationships. When you first starting seeing her, was she a flirt and a player that you had to work EXTRA hard to beat off potential suitors? If this was so and if you are then stop that type of B.S. right now and work on not being that for next time and find someone who you can trust without the worries where you use what you have as a means of getting compliance from your directives.

[266696687]

I didn't make it to the end of your post. Basically, I couldn't get past you telling her that she couldn't do the course she wanted to do. Or that she had to postpone it to suit your timeline. It comes across as being incredibly controlling on your part. Why did you not work with her to try and find a way to make it doable?

 

If the two of you can afford all those luxury gifts, then you can afford a nanny or childcare. Or, she could sell the Landrover or 3ct ring to fund them herself.

 

I can see why she withdrew from you.

 

Yeah I found this part hard to read as well. Working on the relationship doesn't mean doing what he wants to suit his schedule. She is entitled to go to school and better herself. They are clearly financially stable so I cannot understand his reasons for trying to deter her or postpone her going to college? He isn't clear on why he was doing this rather than supporting her choice?

 

Gifts are nice but you can't beat having the support of your partner. Support is far more important. Just because you brought her gifts doesn't mean you get to use them as a means of controlling her. She can't go to school because you brought her a car or a handbag. It doesn't work that way.

 

Sounds like she is trying to escape you because you are stifling her. Not really sure of the reason you are doing so but it comes off as extremely controlling.

 

Also the not paying for petrol situation sounds like you are trying to manipulate her back by punishing her for leaving. If you don't come back I won't pay for this or that. Something which you had previously been paying for.

 

This woman is the mother of your children. You have supported her (as stated above) financially throughout your marriage and are now using it to try and force her back into a relationship with you by withdrawing your financial support. This won't work in the long run. If you genuinely wanted to work on the relationship you would continue your financial support for the interim to remove the stress of causing financial difficulty for your wife and children while you attempt to reconcile. Immediately withdrawing your financial support upon separating is complete and total manipulation as you know it will be deterimental to her. She obviously relies on you financially. I'm not saying this should go on for ever but until at least you both determine whether you are staying together or separating. Adding this extra stress for her is going to drive her away.

Edited March 5, 2016 by 266696687

[mightycpa]

Actually it sounds like HE is financially stable, and she's going to learn how to cut hair, not go to college. She's got two little kids at home, one six months old, and what that means is that the time for thinking about what she wants for herself has passed her by. Her first priority is being with those kids, but she wasn't even willing to wait in order to get a nanny lined up. She was no doubt ready to just drop them off at the first babysitters she could find.

 

Then, the real dissatisfaction comes out, and it is in the form of another man. Whether she slept with him or not is pretty much academic at this point. She's giving OP the bad news little by little. I personally think she sprung this choice on him to pick a fight to create discord, just so she could have an excuse to walk away. Two days after, she's "not in love anymore." How convenient it was all timed so very well.

 

I have two pieces of advice for Mr. Moneybags from working overtime OP. One, you need to cool down and fight your fights better. Had you not lost your cool, I don't think anything would have changed, but there's no need to flip out when someone is unreasonable. Generally, there's an unspoken motivator, and a good skill to learn is how to find out what those are with people. Disagree in good faith. It can be done.

 

Two, make nice for a little while, and lull her into a sense of complacency. In the meantime, find out who the best child custody lawyers are in your area. Go visit all of them and talk about your case. That will mean that they can't take her case, and she'll be stuck with who she can get. Then, choose one who seems like they can get you what you want. You talk to a few and you'll learn a lot. I don't think you're going to get a lot of resistance about custody of those kids. Your woman is restless. No doubt this is because she's too young for the situation she finds herself in. With her apparent frame of mind, they are an anchor to her, and she's going to be willing to deal. Isn't that horrible?

 

Better get prepared pal, because if you're a nice guy about this, you're going to get fleeced by this woman, adding insult to injury.

 

Oh, and if it isn't obvious by now, she's done. It may be tomorrow, it may be six months from now, but she is done. Get used to it.

[fireflywy]

I would recommend reading Chaucer's "The Wife of Baths Tale." He hit this scenario out of the park a long time ago.

 

I hope I didn't sound too rough, but Mightycpa has valid points too.

[sensewriter]

Wow. I really hope you people are kidding (Basil, firefly and the numbers) because if you're being serious you really have some problems. I mean what the hell? This guy works his ass off to support his family. You think he enjoys that? This guy pays for everything without complaint. He probably spends more money on his girlfriend than he does on himself. And by accusing him of doing it for "control" you're just gonna turn it around and make him the bad guy for it? Unbelievable.

 

I like how she loved the money and the presents, and no doubt also the free place to stay and free car, but beat him up for "working too much." Where does this silly [censored] think the money comes from?

 

Maybe if our society expected women to work and pay for their partners and families, they would understand that when you sacrifice your time and energy for your job and put your hard-earned money into your family you're not a sexist pig to think it entitles you to some respect and consideration. Respect and consideration that this guy has not gotten an atom of. I mean let me tell you, his girlfriend really schlonged him.

 

He was entirely reasonable in his request for her to postpone going to school full-time until September. If he wasn't, why would everyone including his girlfriend's family have taken his side? This girl has a six-month-old baby. Clearly too young for a babysitter or nanny. And she wants to make motherhood a two-day-a-week thing? Where's the responsibility? Where's the restraint? It's all me me me, f our kids and f you.

 

She accused him of infidelity for having an innocent chat with a coworker on FB while in all likelihood she is already having sex with another man in plain view of her boyfriend!

 

She is trying to take his children away from him five days of the week when she has already proven that she is an unfit and unconcerned mother!

 

He bent over backwards and snapped his spine trying to save the relationship!

 

This thread makes me wonder, how much of a good man's giving is enough? This guy breaks every false stereotype about men out there. He was even willing to forget about his girlfriend cheating on him if she would just break off contact -- and she repeatedly and viciously deceived him. You really believe that story about her pushing him away when he went for a kiss, and spending the night in his bed without doing anything? This guy is one in a million -- and you're still taking the ex-girlfriend's side. And Basil, you admitted you didn't even read the guy's post properly and yet you just went straight ahead to calling him "incredibly controlling" and saying you could see why his girlfriend left. You guys really know how to take a good person who's been put into a terrible situation and is asking for your help -- and assassinate him.

[266696687]

Actually it sounds like HE is financially stable, and she's going to learn how to cut hair, not go to college. She's got two little kids at home, one six months old, and what that means is that the time for thinking about what she wants for herself has passed her by. Her first priority is being with those kids, but she wasn't even willing to wait in order to get a nanny lined up. She was no doubt ready to just drop them off at the first babysitters she could find.

 

Then, the real dissatisfaction comes out, and it is in the form of another man. Whether she slept with him or not is pretty much academic at this point. She's giving OP the bad news little by little. I personally think she sprung this choice on him to pick a fight to create discord, just so she could have an excuse to walk away. Two days after, she's "not in love anymore." How convenient it was all timed so very well.

 

I have two pieces of advice for Mr. Moneybags from working overtime OP. One, you need to cool down and fight your fights better. Had you not lost your cool, I don't think anything would have changed, but there's no need to flip out when someone is unreasonable. Generally, there's an unspoken motivator, and a good skill to learn is how to find out what those are with people. Disagree in good faith. It can be done.

 

Two, make nice for a little while, and lull her into a sense of complacency. In the meantime, find out who the best child custody lawyers are in your area. Go visit all of them and talk about your case. That will mean that they can't take her case, and she'll be stuck with who she can get. Then, choose one who seems like they can get you what you want. You talk to a few and you'll learn a lot. I don't think you're going to get a lot of resistance about custody of those kids. Your woman is restless. No doubt this is because she's too young for the situation she finds herself in. With her apparent frame of mind, they are an anchor to her, and she's going to be willing to deal. Isn't that horrible?

 

Better get prepared pal, because if you're a nice guy about this, you're going to get fleeced by this woman, adding insult to injury.

 

Oh, and if it isn't obvious by now, she's done. It may be tomorrow, it may be six months from now, but she is done. Get used to it.

 

I usually agree with much of what you say but in this case while you have valid points I think you've ignored some important things.

 

1. HE is not financially stable. - if you are in a committed relationship with children it is BOTH parties money. He is earning because she is looking after the children. A 6 month old and a 3 year old.

 

2. She is looking to further her education in order to get some earning power for herself. Im not really sure why you mention her choice of hairdressing as if it's not something she can be proud of.

 

Questioning her commitment to her children is insulting to working mothers. Some mothers work with three month old babies at home. Some wait a year. By wanting to have a career herself it is for her children and their financial security. As you can see she's not ended up in a good position by solely relying on her partner for financial support while she was raising the kids. He has withdrawn it after breaking up with her after giving her an ultimatum over going to college.

 

3. Having kids is work. It's hard work you just don't get paid for.

 

4. Mothers do not have to stay home and revolve their entire lives around the children they are allowed to go out and get an education or work if they choose. He is a father. All parenting duties do not fall to the mother just because he is earning the money. Giving her an ultimatum college or the kids is unfair and is not showing a supportive partner.

 

5. I don't have an issue with him asking her to postpone her education and work out a timetable. The problem I have is that she asked his permission to go to college and he initially said no. (See his original post). Why does he get the final say over her life choices? Just because he earns the money?

 

6. He then told her she could go to college (again why he gets to decide this is beyond me) but only wants it on his timetable. Without further discussion. When she didn't agree he issued an ultimatum, and broke up with her.

 

What she does after they've broken up is no longer his business. Supporting his children however is still his responsibility.

[266696687]

Wow. I really hope you people are kidding (Basil, firefly and the numbers) because if you're being serious you really have some problems. I mean what the hell? This guy works his ass off to support his family. You think he enjoys that? This guy pays for everything without complaint. He probably spends more money on his girlfriend than he does on himself. And by accusing him of doing it for "control" you're just gonna turn it around and make him the bad guy for it? Unbelievable.

 

I like how she loved the money and the presents, and no doubt also the free place to stay and free car, but beat him up for "working too much." Where does this silly [censored] think the money comes from?

 

Maybe if our society expected women to work and pay for their partners and families, they would understand that when you sacrifice your time and energy for your job and put your hard-earned money into your family you're not a sexist pig to think it entitles you to some respect and consideration. Respect and consideration that this guy has not gotten an atom of. I mean let me tell you, his girlfriend really schlonged him.

 

He was entirely reasonable in his request for her to postpone going to school full-time until September. If he wasn't, why would everyone including his girlfriend's family have taken his side? This girl has a six-month-old baby. Clearly too young for a babysitter or nanny. And she wants to make motherhood a two-day-a-week thing? Where's the responsibility? Where's the restraint? It's all me me me, f our kids and f you.

 

She accused him of infidelity for having an innocent chat with a coworker on FB while in all likelihood she is already having sex with another man in plain view of her boyfriend!

 

She is trying to take his children away from him five days of the week when she has already proven that she is an unfit and unconcerned mother!

 

He bent over backwards and snapped his spine trying to save the relationship!

 

This thread makes me wonder, how much of a good man's giving is enough? This guy breaks every false stereotype about men out there. He was even willing to forget about his girlfriend cheating on him if she would just break off contact -- and she repeatedly and viciously deceived him. You really believe that story about her pushing him away when he went for a kiss, and spending the night in his bed without doing anything? This guy is one in a million -- and you're still taking the ex-girlfriend's side. And Basil, you admitted you didn't even read the guy's post properly and yet you just went straight ahead to calling him "incredibly controlling" and saying you could see why his girlfriend left. You guys really know how to take a good person who's been put into a terrible situation and is asking for your help -- and assassinate him.

 

The baby is not to young for a sitter or nanny. How do you think all the working mothers in the world manage?

 

Some people only get three months maternity leave before having to return to work so your argument isn't valid.

 

Why is he involving her family to take his side in their relationship? It's between them and should be discussed not decided solely by him.

 

How has she proven she is an unfit mother? There is no such claim in the post about her being an unfit parent? Are you calling her unfit because she wants to go to college and work?

 

If the OP is one in a million as you say then you go and marry him and have his children!

Edited March 5, 2016 by 266696687

[fireflywy]

Wow. I really hope you people are kidding (Basil, firefly and the numbers) because if you're being serious you really have some problems. I mean what the hell? This guy works his ass off to support his family. You think he enjoys that? This guy pays for everything without complaint. He probably spends more money on his girlfriend than he does on himself. And by accusing him of doing it for "control" you're just gonna turn it around and make him the bad guy for it? Unbelievable.

 

I like how she loved the money and the presents, and no doubt also the free place to stay and free car, but beat him up for "working too much." Where does this silly [censored] think the money comes from?

 

Maybe if our society expected women to work and pay for their partners and families, they would understand that when you sacrifice your time and energy for your job and put your hard-earned money into your family you're not a sexist pig to think it entitles you to some respect and consideration. Respect and consideration that this guy has not gotten an atom of. I mean let me tell you, his girlfriend really schlonged him.

 

He was entirely reasonable in his request for her to postpone going to school full-time until September. If he wasn't, why would everyone including his girlfriend's family have taken his side? This girl has a six-month-old baby. Clearly too young for a babysitter or nanny. And she wants to make motherhood a two-day-a-week thing? Where's the responsibility? Where's the restraint? It's all me me me, f our kids and f you.

 

She accused him of infidelity for having an innocent chat with a coworker on FB while in all likelihood she is already having sex with another man in plain view of her boyfriend!

 

She is trying to take his children away from him five days of the week when she has already proven that she is an unfit and unconcerned mother!

 

He bent over backwards and snapped his spine trying to save the relationship!

 

This thread makes me wonder, how much of a good man's giving is enough? This guy breaks every false stereotype about men out there. He was even willing to forget about his girlfriend cheating on him if she would just break off contact -- and she repeatedly and viciously deceived him. You really believe that story about her pushing him away when he went for a kiss, and spending the night in his bed without doing anything? This guy is one in a million -- and you're still taking the ex-girlfriend's side. And Basil, you admitted you didn't even read the guy's post properly and yet you just went straight ahead to calling him "incredibly controlling" and saying you could see why his girlfriend left. You guys really know how to take a good person who's been put into a terrible situation and is asking for your help -- and assassinate him.

 

I'm not saying she didn't schlong him, she isn't right in what she did and not by a LONG shot. It doesn't condone her cheating on him EVER.

 

However, he did throw out some relationship nukes at times which explain why she would distance herself from him. His stress on gift giving and ultimate provider status to her made me think of a book I read after my break up called "No More Nice Guy." In the book, givers often give too much with the expectation of some sort of reciprocity from their partners, a give and take if you will. This is natural. However, nice guy givers eventually give too much to the point where it can become a manipulation to GET what they want and this can cause a lot of negative squelches in the relationship which can cause distancing in the partner. When that happens, the "nice guy" is no longer the nice guy because they have alterior motives and when they don't get what they want, they can explode unfairly.

 

In his situation, his emphasis on doing this, and doing that with material things, comes across, initially to me anyway, as a similar scenario. He sounds as if he was weighing all that he does in the relationship almost as leverage and maybe he incorrectly applies this in other facets of their relationship? Perhaps she was trying to seek a little independence from him by attempting school?

 

When she really WANTED to go to school, in contrast to his desires, he didn't react well and went so far as to THREATEN the END of the relationship because she wanted to go to SCHOOL. He was willing to say f you and END a relationship with the MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN because of her simple desire to go to school. Any potenntial red flags there to self examine? Does that sound fair to you?

 

His reaction does make me wonder if he's needs to examine if hes controlling and whether or not her going to school threatens the relationship dynamic as it could possibly allow her to be less dependent on his largesse. Could there be potential insecurity there? He needs to ask it.

 

These are questions the poster needs to examine.

 

I never said he should stay with her.

 

He asked us if he sounded selfish. I answered with a yes and offered him several things to think about.

 

All I wanted the OP to do was consider how he deals with the power dynamics and how he employs the leverage of his material contributions in the future over something that is actually very benign (aka her having a sense of accomplishment in going to school.)

 

P.S. What brings you here Sensewriter? Interesting first post for you to weigh in on.

Edited March 5, 2016 by fireflywy

[mightycpa]

I usually agree with much of what you say but in this case while you have valid points I think you've ignored some important things.

 

1. HE is not financially stable. - if you are in a committed relationship with children it is BOTH parties money. He is earning because she is looking after the children. A 6 month old and a 3 year old.

 

2. She is looking to further her education in order to get some earning power for herself. Im not really sure why you mention her choice of hairdressing as if it's not something she can be proud of.

 

Questioning her commitment to her children is insulting to working mothers. Some mothers work with three month old babies at home. Some wait a year. By wanting to have a career herself it is for her children and their financial security. As you can see she's not ended up in a good position by solely relying on her partner for financial support while she was raising the kids. He has withdrawn it after breaking up with her after giving her an ultimatum over going to college.

 

3. Having kids is work. It's hard work you just don't get paid for.

 

4. Mothers do not have to stay home and revolve their entire lives around the children they are allowed to go out and get an education or work if they choose. He is a father. All parenting duties do not fall to the mother just because he is earning the money. Giving her an ultimatum college or the kids is unfair and is not showing a supportive partner.

 

5. I don't have an issue with him asking her to postpone her education and work out a timetable. The problem I have is that she asked his permission to go to college and he initially said no. (See his original post). Why does he get the final say over her life choices? Just because he earns the money?

 

6. He then told her she could go to college (again why he gets to decide this is beyond me) but only wants it on his timetable. Without further discussion. When she didn't agree he issued an ultimatum, and broke up with her.

 

What she does after they've broken up is no longer his business. Supporting his children however is still his responsibility.

You can certainly disagree from time to time, I don't mind. However, you do so at your own peril.

 

1. I disagree. In one day, by giving up on the relationship, she became financially vulnerable. That is not stability by any measure.

 

2. Because you said college. He said cosmetology school, Tue - Sat. Big difference.

 

3. To some it is work, to others, it is a joy. If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. Raising kids is exhausting, but I would never call it work. I've got 4 of them, so I have a little bit of experience in this realm.

 

4. Mothers, if they have a choice, should make their lives revolve around their kids for part of their lives. At those ages, these kids don't benefit from mom being away. Her presence does them much more good than her learning a trade. Later in their lives, I can see how by going to school or pursuing an interest, she could provide a valuable and good example to those children. But not right now, not at that age. All they'll know is that she's always gone.

 

5. I didn't read the original post. I can only respond to what I read. But I think to your point, she ASKED. That implies he gets to answer one way or the other. I don't know why he said no, maybe it was a good reason, maybe not. Nevertheless, she asked for his input. She got it.

 

6. Cosmetology school. I think he should have stuck to his guns and enlisted the help of his family and hers to help her see the wisdom in choosing deferred gratification. Unless they're strugging to put food on the table, what's the rush? I think the rush was to get out of the house - because watching those kids was work she didn't want to do.

 

He did break up with her, and as you say, once that card gets played, all bets are off. He does indeed have a financial obligation to those children. But not to her. There is something patently unfair that she also lives off of "child support." Now, if she could fend for herself, and maybe she can, certainly he should contribute to the extent of his ability. But for them, not for her. If she can't provide a decent place to live, but he can, then he should get custody of the kids while she lives in squalor and goes to school. I can't see how it makes any sense that he would pay for a place for his kids to live and she doesn't pay her fair share for her portion, and her share of their portion. That's what I mean by HE is financially stable, and she is not. That's also why I recommended what I recommended, because society has a bias against men.

 

Now all that said, I'm not there. I don't know the dynamics, I can only comment on what was presented. I get the feeling she's young, and she's suddenly feeling trapped, what with feelings having developed for someone else. That's an awful lonely place to be, and it's not easy. But it is what it is, and life is not always fair. I hope they can work it out in the long term, but given that she's got the sweets for the other guy, it doesn't look good.

[elaine567]

This is a total mess and unfortunately there are two small children in the middle of it.

She storms off and finds herself in some guy's apartment, he storms off and is communicating with some women he met in a bar about BJs....Ugh!

This is not salvageable, too much drama all round - the cops even got involved....

Best both go their separate ways and spend all their time and effort working out how to be great co-parents.

[266696687]

You can certainly disagree from time to time, I don't mind. However, you do so at your own peril.

 

1. I disagree. In one day, by giving up on the relationship, she became financially vulnerable. That is not stability by any measure.

 

2. Because you said college. He said cosmetology school, Tue - Sat. Big difference.

 

3. To some it is work, to others, it is a joy. If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. Raising kids is exhausting, but I would never call it work. I've got 4 of them, so I have a little bit of experience in this realm.

 

4. Mothers, if they have a choice, should make their lives revolve around their kids for part of their lives. At those ages, these kids don't benefit from mom being away. Her presence does them much more good than her learning a trade. Later in their lives, I can see how by going to school or pursuing an interest, she could provide a valuable and good example to those children. But not right now, not at that age. All they'll know is that she's always gone.

 

5. I didn't read the original post. I can only respond to what I read. But I think to your point, she ASKED. That implies he gets to answer one way or the other. I don't know why he said no, maybe it was a good reason, maybe not. Nevertheless, she asked for his input. She got it.

 

6. Cosmetology school. I think he should have stuck to his guns and enlisted the help of his family and hers to help her see the wisdom in choosing deferred gratification. Unless they're strugging to put food on the table, what's the rush? I think the rush was to get out of the house - because watching those kids was work she didn't want to do.

 

He did break up with her, and as you say, once that card gets played, all bets are off. He does indeed have a financial obligation to those children. But not to her. There is something patently unfair that she also lives off of "child support." Now, if she could fend for herself, and maybe she can, certainly he should contribute to the extent of his ability. But for them, not for her. If she can't provide a decent place to live, but he can, then he should get custody of the kids while she lives in squalor and goes to school. I can't see how it makes any sense that he would pay for a place for his kids to live and she doesn't pay her fair share for her portion, and her share of their portion. That's what I mean by HE is financially stable, and she is not. That's also why I recommended what I recommended, because society has a bias against men.

 

Now all that said, I'm not there. I don't know the dynamics, I can only comment on what was presented. I get the feeling she's young, and she's suddenly feeling trapped, what with feelings having developed for someone else. That's an awful lonely place to be, and it's not easy. But it is what it is, and life is not always fair. I hope they can work it out in the long term, but given that she's got the sweets for the other guy, it doesn't look good.

 

LOL enjoyed reading that first line.

 

In response to your points:

 

Again you make valid points and I don't totally disagree with you.

 

1. She wasn't the one who ended the relationship. He issued an ultimatum (when have you ever seen that work out well?). He backed her into a corner. School or the kids. He made her financially vulnerable by ending the relationship because he didn't want her to pursue going to school. He used his position being the breadwinner to try and manipulate her to staying home. He tried to take away her choice.

 

2. School is school regardless of the subject she choose.

 

3. Raising kids is a joy but it is still work no matter how much joy you get out of it.

 

4. They should in your opinion but it's not a fact I'm afraid. There are millions of working mothers who choose to work even if they don't have too. Its independence and financial security for themselves. It comes down to each mothers choice and she does have a choice regardless of whether you agree with it.

 

5. The fact that she asked his permission is concerning in itself and speaks of the dynamic of their relationship. He makes her life choices for her? It certainly highlights a deeper issue in their relationship. When she didn't agree to his position he issued an ultimatum and ended the relationship.

 

6. That's just speculation. You and I don't know the reason why she wants to go to school. Just because going to school takes her out of the house doesn't mean she isn't committed to her children. Again millions of working mothers out there. They are fully committed to their children and to their jobs.

 

The fact that the OP claims to want to reconcile is the reason he should continue his financial obligations in the interim (not forever). Withdrawing his financial support immediately as a punishment to try and force her back into the relationship is manipulation not in her best interests or the kids best interest and certainly won't work towards reconciling. This is clearly a play for power. This isn't him working together with her to do the best by their children. It's a punishment.

 

He hasn't said she can't provide them somewhere to live.

 

Just one question for you. You say in your opinion that it's better for her to be home with the children and look after them due to their age but then in the next breath say it's unfair for her to live off child support and she should contribute if they separate. Either you believe she should stay home for the kids benefit and be supported by her partner or you don't? There's a bit of a contradiction in your opinion here. if he doesn't support her she wil have to go to work anyway to contribute and support them which takes her away from the kids anyway. Its a lose lose situation. All of this apparently started because he wanted her to stay home with the kids. By withdrawing financial support she will have to be away from the kids to support them. So either way the OP won't get what he wants.

 

I've ignored the bits about both the OP and his partner getting with other people purely because it comes across as a game they are both playing to irritate the other.

Edited March 5, 2016 by 266696687

[266696687]

 

Perhaps she was trying to seek a little independence from him by attempting school?

 

When she really WANTED to go to school, in contrast to his desires, he didn't react well and went so far as to THREATEN the END of the relationship because she wanted to go to SCHOOL. He was willing to say f you and END a relationship with the MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN because of her simple desire to go to school. Any potenntial red flags there to self examine? Does that sound fair to you?

 

His reaction does make me wonder if he's needs to examine if hes controlling and whether or not her going to school threatens the relationship dynamic as it could possibly allow her to be less dependent on his largesse. Could there be potential insecurity there? He needs to ask it?

 

This is exactly it...there is an ulterior motive here.

 

He claims its for the kids but then withdraws financial support immediately meaning she will need to go out and find other means to support them which will take her away from the kids anyway. It doesn't add up.

 

If his position upon separating was I still want you to stay home with the kids because I feel it's in their best interests at this point to have you there and I'll support you. I'd agree with him but this clearly isn't the case. So it's definitely not about the importance of staying home with the kids for their benefit it's about him. He has completely changed his opinion upon separating. Suddenly it's more important for her to support herself and the kids by earning her own money.

Edited March 5, 2016 by 266696687

[sensewriter]

The baby is not to young for a sitter or nanny. How do you think all the working mothers in the world manage?

 

Some people only get three months maternity leave before having to return to work so your argument isn't valid.

 

Why is he involving her family to take his side in their relationship? It's between them and should be discussed not decided solely by him.

 

How has she proven she is an unfit mother? There is no such claim in the post about her being an unfit parent? Are you calling her unfit because she wants to go to college and work?

 

If the OP is one in a million as you say then you go and marry him and have his children!

 

Just because it's possible for a six-month-old to be left with a nanny does not mean that it's best for them. There's plenty of research to show that this is the most critical period for maternal presence. Even one night a week away from the mother can produce anxiety. That the guy wanted his girlfriend to stay with their infant until they were about a year old is in line with a lot of medical advice.

 

Of course most working women do not have that option. If you only get maternity leave for three months and you have to work to support your family or keep your career, you have no choice. I understand that. The ex-girlfriend is not in that situation. She had everything she could want and so her top priority should be her infant who is still talking their first steps and can't say one word.

 

He did not try to stop her from going to school. He said he was fine with her going part-time until September, and she already works nights as a server. But no, she just had to go full-time immediately, because she's gonna do whatever she wants. It was not something she could reconsider or negotiate in the interest of her child. Tell me what could be so urgent about going to school full-time immediately when (a) she has a part-time option, (b) she never has to worry about money, and © she's already got a time commitment to her job? Between full-time school and a part-time job, she would be separated from her child for most of the day.

 

And you know what, that issue's relevance has been exaggerated because he eventually backtracked on his position and said she could go full-time, and she still did everything she did to him.

 

He talked to her family because he wanted to make sure he wasn't being crazy. I'm sure girls never involve their family or friends in relationship disputes...

 

I see nothing in this thread that indicates that she has any concern about her children. In particular the fact that she said she returned to the house for the sake of her school and not for her kids who were living in it resonated with me.

 

Haha, if I could make myself gay so I wouldn't have to deal with... "women's issues" I would, but I can't.

Edited March 5, 2016 by sensewriter

[266696687]

Just because it's possible for a six-month-old to be left with a nanny does not mean that it's best for them. There's plenty of research to show that this is the most critical period for maternal presence. Even one night a week away from the mother can produce anxiety. That the guy wanted his girlfriend to stay with their infant until they were about a year old is in line with a lot of medical advice.

 

Of course most working women do not have that option. If you only get maternity leave for three months and you have to work to support your family or keep your career, you have no choice. I understand that. The ex-girlfriend is not in that situation. She had everything she could want and so her top priority should be her infant who is still talking their first steps and can't say one word.

 

He did not try to stop her from going to school. He said he was fine with her going part-time until September, and she already works nights as a server. But no, she just had to go full-time immediately, because she's gonna do whatever she wants. It was not something she could reconsider or negotiate in the interest of her child. Tell me what could be so urgent about going to school full-time immediately when (a) she has a part-time option, (b) she never has to worry about money, and © she's already got a time commitment to her job? Between full-time school and a part-time job, she would be separated from her child for most of the day.

 

And you know what, that issue's relevance has been exaggerated because he eventually backtracked on his position and said she could go full-time, and she still did everything she did to him.

 

He talked to her family because he wanted to make sure he wasn't being crazy. I'm sure girls never involve their family or friends in relationship disputes...

 

I see nothing in this thread that indicates that she has any concern about her children. In particular the fact that she said she returned to the house for the sake of her school and not for her kids who were living in it resonated with me.

 

Haha, if I could make myself gay so I wouldn't have to deal with... "women's issues" I would, but I can't.

 

Clearly she doesn't have everything she wants. What she wants is to go to school. You're dismissing her needs as if they aren't important. The same as the OP has. It's not solely about one person being right or wrong it's about finding a compromise that works for both of them.

 

In this case it was his way or the highway. Instead of looking for a solution and acknowledging the importance of her needs and wants he dismissed them. When she didn't agree he ended the relationship. Ultimatums are not solutions or compromise.

 

Him back tracking his position is too little to late by the sounds of it. The damage was done.

[nessrox]

Thank you for all you're opinions.

 

 

In the beginning of our first break I told her I would support her and the kids and let her live in the house through school. After 4 days of this she lied to me where she was going and I caught her at the co-workers apartment. After this happened I tried to salvage the relationship by taking off work, showing her emotional support and going to counseling but she wasn't into it.

 

I felt like I did all I could but made some mistakes, one being calling the cops, for a fight I instigated because my ego got to me, cause she said "if you just pay my car payment and car insurance and gas I will still cook and clean for you" even though I think she meant to say it in a nice way. And then going off on her that night about not wanting to pay her $120 a week gas.

 

But now I'm lost cause what she's asking for is to live with me, not try in the relationship, she has feelings for some other guy, but might be able to try us again after a couple months...

 

I feel like I'm second best to some guy she has feelings for, I feel like I'm this push over nice guy who can be walked on like a doormat if I don't stand up and say support yourself. This is what happens when people with kids breakup, they go and support themselves. I want to get back together with her cause I do lover her and she's the mother of my kids. But I feel like if I'm weak now, it's going to happen again and she will know she can continusly do these things to me 1 year later, or anytime again. I think she needs to experience life without a silver spoon being feed to her.

 

What do you guys think?

[starpower]

Thank you for all you're opinions.

 

 

In the beginning of our first break I told her I would support her and the kids and let her live in the house through school. After 4 days of this she lied to me where she was going and I caught her at the co-workers apartment. After this happened I tried to salvage the relationship by taking off work, showing her emotional support and going to counseling but she wasn't into it.

 

I felt like I did all I could but made some mistakes, one being calling the cops, for a fight I instigated because my ego got to me, cause she said "if you just pay my car payment and car insurance and gas I will still cook and clean for you" even though I think she meant to say it in a nice way. And then going off on her that night about not wanting to pay her $120 a week gas.

 

But now I'm lost cause what she's asking for is to live with me, not try in the relationship, she has feelings for some other guy, but might be able to try us again after a couple months...

 

I feel like I'm second best to some guy she has feelings for, I feel like I'm this push over nice guy who can be walked on like a doormat if I don't stand up and say support yourself. This is what happens when people with kids breakup, they go and support themselves. I want to get back together with her cause I do lover her and she's the mother of my kids. But I feel like if I'm weak now, it's going to happen again and she will know she can continusly do these things to me 1 year later, or anytime again. I think she needs to experience life without a silver spoon being feed to her.

 

What do you guys think?

 

She seems to just want to use you, to maintain her lifestyle. Already cheated on you, lied to you, like when she said she spend the night on some guys bed but nothing happened - you should never have accepted that blatant lie.

 

You hit the nail on the head with what you said though, she will do this again. She isn't remorseful in what she has done, she's upset that she can't have it all, she wants you as her back-up, and to support her financially.

[sandylee1]

Don't let her use you financially while she is with another man. Living together through this will cause more damage.

[266696687]

She seems to just want to use you, to maintain her lifestyle. Already cheated on you, lied to you, like when she said she spend the night on some guys bed but nothing happened - you should never have accepted that blatant lie.

 

You hit the nail on the head with what you said though, she will do this again. She isn't remorseful in what she has done, she's upset that she can't have it all, she wants you as her back-up, and to support her financially.

 

She didn't cheat. He had broken off their relationship prior to her engaging with the other man.

 

The OP had a phone call in front of his pertner where he started talking about getting BJ's from another woman.

 

The whole situation is a mess. Caused by both of them. Neither of them have behaved well.

 

The whole relationship broke down because he issued her with an ultimatum.

 

They are both at fault. However the OP is extremely emotional and is making the situation much worse by calling the cops in an argument that he instigated and then withdrawing financial support even though he ended the relationship because he claims she had all the financial support she needed to stay at home and be with the kids. He finished the relationship because she wanted to go to school.

 

Unless the OP can acknowledge the part he has played here then they won't be able to resolve their issues.

[candie13]

OP, question: if she's a stay at home mom, why does she need you to pay 120$ of gas to go to work? If she goes to work, then you have a nanny, right?

 

So if you have a nanny, why can't she go to school?

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

[candie13]

She didn't cheat. He had broken off their relationship prior to her engaging with the other man.

 

The OP had a phone call in front of his pertner where he started talking about getting BJ's from another woman.

 

The whole situation is a mess. Caused by both of them. Neither of them have behaved well.

 

The whole relationship broke down because he issued her with an ultimatum.

 

They are both at fault. However the OP is extremely emotional and is making the situation much worse by calling the cops in an argument that he instigated and then withdrawing financial support even though he ended the relationship because he claims she had all the financial support she needed to stay at home and be with the kids. He finished the relationship because she wanted to go to school.

 

Unless the OP can acknowledge the part he has played here then they won't be able to resolve their issues.

waaaaaaiiiiiit a minute: what co-worker?

 

is she a stay at home mom or a working mom?

 

If she's working, surely she can go to school - because the kids are being taken care of anyway, as they were when their mom was working. She just needs to quit her job, right?

 

OP is hiding crucial information .

 

I am sorry. All of a sudden, she is working, she has a co-worker and the OP has to pay for gas for her to drive to work. I think the OP doesn't want her partner to go to school because he'll be stuck with the children all day on Saturday and they will have to live with just his salary, if she goes to school - instead of her salary and his.

 

Perhaps the OP feels threatened by her going to school and senses she'll be even more independent. Perhaps he feels he's losing control over her - because she checked out of the RS emotionally.

 

OP, if you want us all to tell you "poor guy who's being taken advantage of financially", cool. The reality seems to be a little bit different.

[266696687]

waaaaaaiiiiiit a minute: what co-worker?

 

is she a stay at home mom or a working mom?

 

If she's working, surely she can go to school - because the kids are being taken care of anyway, as they were when their mom was working. She just needs to quit her job, right?

 

OP is hiding crucial information .

 

I am sorry. All of a sudden, she is working, she has a co-worker and the OP has to pay for gas for her to drive to work. I think the OP doesn't want her partner to go to school because he'll be stuck with the children all day on Saturday and they will have to live with just his salary, if she goes to school - instead of her salary and his.

 

Perhaps the OP feels threatened by her going to school and senses she'll be even more independent. Perhaps he feels he's losing control over her - because she checked out of the RS emotionally.

 

OP, if you want us all to tell you "poor guy who's being taken advantage of financially", cool. The reality seems to be a little bit different.

 

She apparently works a few hours a few nights a week in the evenings as per OP's previous posts.

 

Im of the same opinion as you. He has an ulterior motive for not wanting her to go to school and is using the kids to justify it. I'd also like to know how long she has been doing this job? It seems the OP wants her at home full time with the kids so probably didn't like the idea of her working at all (as he provides everything she needs apparently) and when she added school to the mix that was too much for him to handle and he ended the relationship school or the kids. I suspect he doesn't like her being away from the house / kids.

 

I think he already doesn't like her working and feels she will be even more independent if she goes to school. Seems like a control issue to me.

 

Unless the OP is completely honest here I doubt we will get the full picture.

Edited March 6, 2016 by 266696687

[sensewriter]

waaaaaaiiiiiit a minute: what co-worker?

 

is she a stay at home mom or a working mom?

 

If she's working, surely she can go to school - because the kids are being taken care of anyway, as they were when their mom was working. She just needs to quit her job, right?

 

OP is hiding crucial information .

 

I am sorry. All of a sudden, she is working, she has a co-worker and the OP has to pay for gas for her to drive to work. I think the OP doesn't want her partner to go to school because he'll be stuck with the children all day on Saturday and they will have to live with just his salary, if she goes to school - instead of her salary and his.

 

Perhaps the OP feels threatened by her going to school and senses she'll be even more independent. Perhaps he feels he's losing control over her - because she checked out of the RS emotionally.

 

OP, if you want us all to tell you "poor guy who's being taken advantage of financially", cool. The reality seems to be a little bit different.

 

You're right. The OP makes enough money to pay for all of the couple's bills for the past 4 years and then some, including

 

- a Landrover

- a Louis Vouitton purse

- a 3 carat ring for Christmas

- a $1,000 camera for her birthday

- dates every weekend

- rent for the house

- all his, her, and their children's living expenses

- he was going to pay for college tuition, car insurance, car payments, and gas

 

but he really wants to get his hands on his ex-girlfriend's $3 an hour and tips.

Edited March 6, 2016 by sensewriter