He showed up at my apartment today and now I'm a mess

[The Aftermath]

This Friday/weekend was really hard on me. Fridays are still a trigger for me and I hate that I can be feeling completely okay during the week (mostly due to being busy, keeping NC/not seeing him, spending time with family, etc) & then one day can just have me crumbling all over again. I really am crushed that he took steps to show me he was committed to me (moving out, renting a room/getting on the wait list for his own apartment, setting the date to file for divorce)...all of these were actions and not just words and I guess I am still reeling from his 180.

 

He sounds like he needs a psychotherapist. As for me, I stopped trying to help men who need a physician or therapist to deal with their problems long ago. It's just not my job. I don't get paid for it, they don't listen to what you tell them to do anyway, and all it does is cause me to have to do extra work while my life is already enough for me. Who wants a relationship where you have to be someone's therapist and life coach? I want to have fun, not manage a man!

 

I completely understand what you mean. He was totally depressed when his W started preventing him from seeing their kids. I would tell him that legally she could NOT prevent him from taking their son to the room he rents because there was no danger, but he couldn't handle the arguments so he relented. This was just one example of where I would give advice to try to help his current situation and instead he would just remain defeated. I don't even need to mention the temper tantrums...told him over and over again adults talk about their problems instead of throwing things, but he just said not everyone is capable of change.

 

Your H probably won't be totally shocked to find out that his daughter isn't his, on some level he has thought about it but doesn't allow the thoughts to continue on about it....

 

Suggestion? You know you must tell him sooner rather than later (if he finds out from someone else it'll be much worse) how about bringing him to counseling and in a safe setting, where there's a third person and someone who can help him cope with the news after you tell him. Give it some thought.

 

It's so interesting you suggested this because when I first found out I considered asking SIL to be there when I told him the news - as he trusts in her because I have always trusted in her. Of course now that she's broken my trust and we aren't talking this is no longer a possibility. I am not sure if H will meet with me in counseling...typical guy he doesn't think he needs to pay someone to tell him about his problems.

[13Hearts]

I completely understand what you mean. He was totally depressed when his W started preventing him from seeing their kids. I would tell him that legally she could NOT prevent him from taking their son to the room he rents because there was no danger, but he couldn't handle the arguments so he relented. This was just one example of where I would give advice to try to help his current situation and instead he would just remain defeated. I don't even need to mention the temper tantrums...told him over and over again adults talk about their problems instead of throwing things, but he just said not everyone is capable of change.

 

My xMM told me the same thing. He wants to leave, he becomes despondent and filled with anxiety when he has to be with her, just the two of them, or when he thinks about having to spend the rest of his life with her. But when he tried to tell her that he loved me and wanted to make a go of it with me, she threw temper tantrums, threw things at him, and he was afraid she would literally fight him, physically. He said he could not take the stress of what she would do if he continued trying to leave. He also said he felt that even if he did leave for good, and did get a divorce, he probably would feel so guilty that he would go back to her. He calls it obligation. I imagine there is some cowardice, and maybe a bit of emotional dependence, at play there, too. Makes no sense to me, but then I haven't been married the last 25 or 30 years. I have no experience in that regard to help me understand it.

[The Aftermath]

My xMM told me the same thing. He wants to leave, he becomes despondent and filled with anxiety when he has to be with her, just the two of them, or when he thinks about having to spend the rest of his life with her. But when he tried to tell her that he loved me and wanted to make a go of it with me, she threw temper tantrums, threw things at him, and he was afraid she would literally fight him, physically. He said he could not take the stress of what she would do if he continued trying to leave. He also said he felt that even if he did leave for good, and did get a divorce, he probably would feel so guilty that he would go back to her. He calls it obligation. I imagine there is some cowardice, and maybe a bit of emotional dependence, at play there, too. Makes no sense to me, but then I haven't been married the last 25 or 30 years. I have no experience in that regard to help me understand it.

 

Agree that there is co-dependence there. More than a few of H's friends are married because they really just felt they would never find anyone else (not making assumptions; the info. came from the wives themselves when they told us why they decided to marry). I know when J's wife was giving him a hard time about the amount of child support he would have to pay her he whined to her that he would end up homeless, but then he said gave in & agreed to pay it to avoid a fight. Only after multiple suggestions did he use a CS calculator to try to reach a fair amount, but even then he gave in a bit after she argued with him all day at work.

 

I can't remember if I stated in my other post, but J was really proud of himself when he finally took steps to leave an unhappy marriage. He said he had never stood up for himself before and he was surprised at himself when he told her that he loved me and that he was still moving out despite her threats to take him to court to try to keep his kids away from him. I definitely know that he can be a coward when it comes to dealing with things which is why he really surprised me when he took action...one of the reasons why I decided to gave him another chance. I really feel that he and I both believed he was set on D and having an open/honest R with me...still trying to cope with the fact he changed his mind so suddenly.

[13Hearts]

Agree that there is co-dependence there. More than a few of H's friends are married because they really just felt they would never find anyone else (not making assumptions; the info. came from the wives themselves when they told us why they decided to marry). I know when J's wife was giving him a hard time about the amount of child support he would have to pay her he whined to her that he would end up homeless, but then he said gave in & agreed to pay it to avoid a fight. Only after multiple suggestions did he use a CS calculator to try to reach a fair amount, but even then he gave in a bit after she argued with him all day at work.

 

I can't remember if I stated in my other post, but J was really proud of himself when he finally took steps to leave an unhappy marriage. He said he had never stood up for himself before and he was surprised at himself when he told her that he loved me and that he was still moving out despite her threats to take him to court to try to keep his kids away from him. I definitely know that he can be a coward when it comes to dealing with things which is why he really surprised me when he took action...one of the reasons why I decided to gave him another chance. I really feel that he and I both believed he was set on D and having an open/honest R with me...still trying to cope with the fact he changed his mind so suddenly.

 

They used to call that being henpecked. Not sure what they call that now.

[The Aftermath]

They used to call that being henpecked. Not sure what they call that now.

 

I don't think I've heard that expression before so I Googled it. Very interesting definition provided by Urban Dictionary.

[ChickiePops]

May I ask what it is that his wife did to you to make you hate her so much?

[The Aftermath]

May I ask what it is that his wife did to you to make you hate her so much?

 

Hate is a strong word and I don't think I said anything to indicate I "hate" her. I have admitted I don't have empathy for someone who is abusive and who would use their children to their benefit (or to punish someone). No matter how much I detest J for what he did I would hate myself even more if I threatened to keep him from his daughter simply for hurting me. Also, if she truly loves him as she claims she does then she wouldn't try to prevent him from getting to know his daughter, when this is obviously something he wants. I only have concerns about whether he will be a permanent fixture in DD's life & of course I am concerned about him bringing DD around his W given her history. She has tried to commit suicide in the past so of course I am going to question her mental stability as well if he's even considering trying to bring DD around her.

[ChickiePops]

So you know his wife intimately?

[The Aftermath]

So you know his wife intimately?

 

I know you say that in jest. Do you know his wife since you defend her so vehemently? As I mentioned before all of the information I have is not from his mouth, but from hers. I don't have to meet her in person to read her messages to him stating she plans to keep his kids from him just for leaving her. I'm not sure why it bothers you that I don't appreciate what she's done. I've lived with dysfunctional family members...I didn't let it get to me, but it messed up my brother. So no, I don't have empathy for people who use physical or emotional abuse or intimidation to get their way.

[whichwayisup]

This Friday/weekend was really hard on me. Fridays are still a trigger for me and I hate that I can be feeling completely okay during the week (mostly due to being busy, keeping NC/not seeing him, spending time with family, etc) & then one day can just have me crumbling all over again. I really am crushed that he took steps to show me he was committed to me (moving out, renting a room/getting on the wait list for his own apartment, setting the date to file for divorce)...all of these were actions and not just words and I guess I am still reeling from his 180.

 

 

 

I completely understand what you mean. He was totally depressed when his W started preventing him from seeing their kids. I would tell him that legally she could NOT prevent him from taking their son to the room he rents because there was no danger, but he couldn't handle the arguments so he relented. This was just one example of where I would give advice to try to help his current situation and instead he would just remain defeated. I don't even need to mention the temper tantrums...told him over and over again adults talk about their problems instead of throwing things, but he just said not everyone is capable of change.

 

 

 

It's so interesting you suggested this because when I first found out I considered asking SIL to be there when I told him the news - as he trusts in her because I have always trusted in her. Of course now that she's broken my trust and we aren't talking this is no longer a possibility. I am not sure if H will meet with me in counseling...typical guy he doesn't think he needs to pay someone to tell him about his problems.

 

Your SIL, is that his sister? If so, then of course she is going to stick by her brother and have his back no matter what.

 

This isn't about paying someone to hear the problems, its about a safe place where you can come clean and tell him the truth. Which you have to do, don't keep putting it off. Life can't go on as it now it's killing you!

 

You need to tell him that you have something huge to discuss with him and need a safe and proper setting for support for both of you. If you don't want to do this with the therapist, choose a trusted friend or another family member to be there.

[whichwayisup]

I know you say that in jest. Do you know his wife since you defend her so vehemently? As I mentioned before all of the information I have is not from his mouth, but from hers. I don't have to meet her in person to read her messages to him stating she plans to keep his kids from him just for leaving her. I'm not sure why it bothers you that I don't appreciate what she's done. I've lived with dysfunctional family members...I didn't let it get to me, but it messed up my brother. So no, I don't have empathy for people who use physical or emotional abuse or intimidation to get their way.

 

Just don't judge her because of texts. For all you know that could be just anger, venting and threats, doesn't mean she'll do it. So unless you're a fly on the wall hearing them speak and seeing their dynamic, you can't 100% be sure if all of that is true.

[sandylee1]

I think if my husband cheated before marriage... and went back to the same OW years later and I discovered he had a child with her... it would probably drive me mental as well. Except I wouldn't marry a cheater.

 

It's no wonder the woman is a mess. Sounds like he's driven her round the twist.

 

It is not uncommon for a BW to state no contact with the OC... especially when it comes to light 8 years later and the husband is bouncing between women.

[ExpatInItaly]

Your daughter deserves so much more than this.

 

Her life is based on a lie. That little girl did nothing to deserve such deception from the people she should be able to trust the most.

 

So, time to start doing the right thing. There is never going to the right time. And it will be far better to hear the truth from you than someone else.

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking the wife or your ex's brother and SIL will stay silent about this forever. I would bet any money the wife gets it out in the open someday, and in the not-too-distant future. Then you will have a lot more explaining to do and mess to be cleaning up.

 

You've made one hell of a mess so far, OP. And it's going to be bad when the truth comes out. Your ex will not handle this well, but you don't have much choice there. But then you can move forward knowing your did right by your little girl. That is worth its weight in gold.

[ChickiePops]

I know you say that in jest. Do you know his wife since you defend her so vehemently? As I mentioned before all of the information I have is not from his mouth, but from hers. I don't have to meet her in person to read her messages to him stating she plans to keep his kids from him just for leaving her. I'm not sure why it bothers you that I don't appreciate what she's done. I've lived with dysfunctional family members...I didn't let it get to me, but it messed up my brother. So no, I don't have empathy for people who use physical or emotional abuse or intimidation to get their way.

 

I'm not defending his wife..I'm trying to get you to understand that SHE has not done anything to you and you have no reason to be mad at her. Your anger is misdirected, he's the one who hurt you. I'm also skeptical about the abuse stuff because it's SO common for MM to use that line, so unless you've seen it with your own eyes I don't trust that it's really happening. Things that she says to you, the OW, in anger are not the same as those things happening.

 

A lot of OW say that they're not responsible for hurting the BS because they're not the one married to them. If that is the case then isn't the reverse true?

 

Also, she likely cannot keep his kids from him, but divorcing means splitting custody so she is losing time with her children too.

 

She's not your enemy. Frankly neither of you should be in competition for this weak loser, but I get that there are children involved and that you both probably love him.

[The Aftermath]

I'm not defending his wife..I'm trying to get you to understand that SHE has not done anything to you and you have no reason to be mad at her. Your anger is misdirected, he's the one who hurt you. I'm also skeptical about the abuse stuff because it's SO common for MM to use that line, so unless you've seen it with your own eyes I don't trust that it's really happening. Things that she says to you, the OW, in anger are not the same as those things happening.

 

A lot of OW say that they're not responsible for hurting the BS because they're not the one married to them. If that is the case then isn't the reverse true?

 

Also, she likely cannot keep his kids from him, but divorcing means splitting custody so she is losing time with her children too.

 

She's not your enemy. Frankly neither of you should be in competition for this weak loser, but I get that there are children involved and that you both probably love him.

 

I'm sorry for responding the way I did. I was upset last night because I heard from him (he dropped some stuff off at my front door then subsequently messaged me). He also included a letter in some of the things as he returned the Christmas and birthday gifts I gave him (he claimed he didn't deserve them like he never deserved me). I was ACTUALLY starting to feel stronger this week...I was SO tempted to text him last Friday, but I didn't and I HAVEN'T reached out to him, not even about our daughter. Then one letter from him in which he FINALLY expressed some remorse and sounded like a HUMAN BEING has me in tears. I hate this.

 

I know I wasn't there to experience her as a whole person; her admitting to the abuse and treating him poorly is all I have to go on. Surprisingly she has only texted me once to ask what my intentions are with her husband (she told J's family all I want is his money, but J knows if that was the case I would've been after him years ago).

 

You're also correct on your other point - J told me she wants to kill me, so I totally get what you mean because HE is the one who took vows to her yet she's ONLY pissed at me. Makes no d*mn sense!! I'm not claiming I'm blameless, but you're right - I do feel that I am not the one who pledged fidelity to her yet he gets a free pass...for the SECOND time!

[The Aftermath]

Your SIL, is that his sister? If so, then of course she is going to stick by her brother and have his back no matter what.

 

This isn't about paying someone to hear the problems, its about a safe place where you can come clean and tell him the truth. Which you have to do, don't keep putting it off. Life can't go on as it now it's killing you!

 

You need to tell him that you have something huge to discuss with him and need a safe and proper setting for support for both of you. If you don't want to do this with the therapist, choose a trusted friend or another family member to be there.

 

My SIL is the wife of H's older brother. We became best friends when she was still dating my BIL so it's been YEARS. It still stings that I trusted in her and she totally turned on me. I agree that a MC/IC can be very helpful...it is H who feels we would be paying someone to hear our problems. I think that seems to be how most men feel about IC. I definitely was considering asking my aunt (since I can't trust SIL) to be there if/when I told H...I think he trusts her and this aunt is closer to me than my own mom. I feel so bad that I haven't even told my aunt about all this. She sees that something is getting me down, but I'm so scared to lose her after all the friends I've already lost because of this whole thing.

[The Aftermath]

Your daughter deserves so much more than this.

 

Her life is based on a lie. That little girl did nothing to deserve such deception from the people she should be able to trust the most.

 

So, time to start doing the right thing. There is never going to the right time. And it will be far better to hear the truth from you than someone else.

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking the wife or your ex's brother and SIL will stay silent about this forever. I would bet any money the wife gets it out in the open someday, and in the not-too-distant future. Then you will have a lot more explaining to do and mess to be cleaning up.

 

You've made one hell of a mess so far, OP. And it's going to be bad when the truth comes out. Your ex will not handle this well, but you don't have much choice there. But then you can move forward knowing your did right by your little girl. That is worth its weight in gold.

 

This is my dilemma...I WANT to tell my H and DD. I don't know if telling them is the right decision because the friends and family members who know tell me I am making a mistake & they're making me doubt the decision to tell. I'm trying not to listen to the advice of my friends and family, but when their advice coincides with what my H himself wants (to never know if DD isn't his) it is very hard. Also, they're telling me DD is better off continuing to think H is her real dad, but I keep thinking if I were DD I would want to know.

[whichwayisup]

My SIL is the wife of H's older brother. We became best friends when she was still dating my BIL so it's been YEARS. It still stings that I trusted in her and she totally turned on me. I agree that a MC/IC can be very helpful...it is H who feels we would be paying someone to hear our problems. I think that seems to be how most men feel about IC. I definitely was considering asking my aunt (since I can't trust SIL) to be there if/when I told H...I think he trusts her and this aunt is closer to me than my own mom. I feel so bad that I haven't even told my aunt about all this. She sees that something is getting me down, but I'm so scared to lose her after all the friends I've already lost because of this whole thing.

 

She is sticking and siding with her husband because it's his older brother. She is the one who have had to suffer consequences (problems in her marriage) if she sided with you and stayed close.

 

Your aunt will not bail out on you. I'm an aunt to 2 amazing nieces, there's absolutely NOTHING they can ever tell me that would make me leave them. I love them so much, so have faith that your aunt will be there, even more so if you two are close and have a friendship.

[whichwayisup]

This is my dilemma...I WANT to tell my H and DD. I don't know if telling them is the right decision because the friends and family members who know tell me I am making a mistake & they're making me doubt the decision to tell. I'm trying not to listen to the advice of my friends and family, but when their advice coincides with what my H himself wants (to never know if DD isn't his) it is very hard. Also, they're telling me DD is better off continuing to think H is her real dad, but I keep thinking if I were DD I would want to know.

 

I forget, sorry, but how old is your daughter?

 

First tell your husband, not her. Things have to be sorted out before and when you do tell her she will need family counseling and support so a plan has to be in place before she is told the truth. Please, take that advice.

 

Your daughter needs to know the truth, too many people know already, including J, so once the dust has settled once you tell your exH, as I said put a plan in place, then tell her. If it's hidden from her and later in life she finds out the truth and found out you knew all along she will hold it against you for a long time, maybe forever, so don't even consider NOT telling her.

Edited March 9, 2016 by whichwayisup

[The Aftermath]

She is sticking and siding with her husband because it's his older brother. She is the one who have had to suffer consequences (problems in her marriage) if she sided with you and stayed close.

 

Your aunt will not bail out on you. I'm an aunt to 2 amazing nieces, there's absolutely NOTHING they can ever tell me that would make me leave them. I love them so much, so have faith that your aunt will be there, even more so if you two are close and have a friendship.

 

Deep down I don't think that she would turn on me, but it is my fear...especially after some of my closest friends have turned on me. I understand that SIL felt she shouldn't keep secrets from her H. What upset me is that she probably already KNEW she NEVER intended to keep my secret, yet she lied to me and told me I could trust her and that she WANTED to know the paternity test results. I told her it would be a burden on her, but she swore up and down I could put my faith in her. Obviously, I was wrong to trust her.

 

I forget, sorry, but how old is your daughter?

 

First tell your husband, not her. Things have to be sorted out before and when you do tell her she will need family counseling and support so a plan has to be in place before she is told the truth. Please, take that advice.

 

She's 8 years old. I don't plan to tell DD right away...I just feel like the in-laws might leak this before I am ready to tell her because they are not a family that knows how to keep their mouth's shut...even when it is something important like this. His siblings are all very immature as 4 of them are still living at home being coddled by mommy...H himself dealt with our marital problems by running to them every week and telling them everything.

[The Aftermath]

Frankly neither of you should be in competition for this weak loser, but I get that there are children involved and that you both probably love him.

 

Sorry, but this part had me ...only because that's exactly what my other BF called him when she found out what happened. She initially did not like J, but then she gained respect for him when she found out he moved out and was trying to do things properly. Then she heard he got wishy-washy again and said she was right back to disliking that "weak loser".

[whichwayisup]

Deep down I don't think that she would turn on me, but it is my fear...especially after some of my closest friends have turned on me. I understand that SIL felt she shouldn't keep secrets from her H. What upset me is that she probably already KNEW she NEVER intended to keep my secret, yet she lied to me and told me I could trust her and that she WANTED to know the paternity test results. I told her it would be a burden on her, but she swore up and down I could put my faith in her. Obviously, I was wrong to trust her.

 

Well, as long as you're owning your mistakes and learning along the way, be humble and open, no way will she leave you. Your friends? They chose to walk away because they had a choice. Family is family.

 

She's 8 years old. I don't plan to tell DD right away...I just feel like the in-laws might leak this before I am ready to tell her because they are not a family that knows how to keep their mouth's shut...even when it is something important like this. His siblings are all very immature as 4 of them are still living at home being coddled by mommy...H himself dealt with our marital problems by running to them every week and telling them everything.

 

Then you MAKE SURE the in laws have your daughter's best interest at heart. put her first and not to leak it before she's of a certain age/maturity to handle hearing the truth.

[The Aftermath]

Well, as long as you're owning your mistakes and learning along the way, be humble and open, no way will she leave you. Your friends? They chose to walk away because they had a choice. Family is family.

 

Then you MAKE SURE the in laws have your daughter's best interest at heart. put her first and not to leak it before she's of a certain age/maturity to handle hearing the truth.

 

I forgot to mention in my other reply to you that another reason I am worried my aunt will be disappointed is because my H came to her (years ago) when he suspected I was seeing someone else. My aunt told H that I would NEVER step out on him and honestly I never thought I was capable either. The fact that she defended me is also what has me worried.

 

Regarding my inlaws - I will of course stress to them/BEG them not to leak this for DD's sake...I am not holding my breath that they will, but I guess I have to have faith they will think about protecting her more than they care about hurting me (by leaking this).

[ChickiePops]

I'm sorry for responding the way I did. I was upset last night because I heard from him (he dropped some stuff off at my front door then subsequently messaged me). He also included a letter in some of the things as he returned the Christmas and birthday gifts I gave him (he claimed he didn't deserve them like he never deserved me). I was ACTUALLY starting to feel stronger this week...I was SO tempted to text him last Friday, but I didn't and I HAVEN'T reached out to him, not even about our daughter. Then one letter from him in which he FINALLY expressed some remorse and sounded like a HUMAN BEING has me in tears. I hate this.

 

I know I wasn't there to experience her as a whole person; her admitting to the abuse and treating him poorly is all I have to go on. Surprisingly she has only texted me once to ask what my intentions are with her husband (she told J's family all I want is his money, but J knows if that was the case I would've been after him years ago).

 

You're also correct on your other point - J told me she wants to kill me, so I totally get what you mean because HE is the one who took vows to her yet she's ONLY pissed at me. Makes no d*mn sense!! I'm not claiming I'm blameless, but you're right - I do feel that I am not the one who pledged fidelity to her yet he gets a free pass...for the SECOND time!

 

Sounds like he's trying to make you scared of her so you won't talk to her. I doubt very much that she is a physical threat to you.

 

She absolutely has every right to be angry at you..you willingly participated in the affair while she had this mess forced upon her, but as I said..she is not your enemy, he is.

[The Aftermath]

Sounds like he's trying to make you scared of her so you won't talk to her. I doubt very much that she is a physical threat to you.

 

She absolutely has every right to be angry at you..you willingly participated in the affair while she had this mess forced upon her, but as I said..she is not your enemy, he is.

 

I'm not so sure....she had his car keyed when he came to my apartment to talk to me (that day he begged me to give him another chance) and she had some guy call J pretending to be my boyfriend to tell him to leave me alone or else. I was expecting dead animals on my front doorstep, but so far it hasn't happened, thank God.