He showed up at my apartment today and now I'm a mess

[bathtub-row]

I think I'm a little confused by your situation. It seems you're married but are you and your husband living together or are you separated?

 

I'm not much of an advocate of coming clean. This opinion usually sparks a lot of irate posts but that's just the way I feel about it. It usually does more harm than good, whether you stay with your spouse or not.

 

Aftermath, I agree that it often seems that we can't help who we love, that sometimes it can actually seem like an involuntary reaction. But what we do control is how we respond to that.

 

It was about 16 years ago when I met xMM, sometime around 2000. I was nearly knocked off my feet by him the second I laid eyes on him, and I later found out that he had a similar reaction toward me. Two years later, he described in such detail what I was wearing that I knew exactly which dress he was talking about. He said that while we were talking, his mouth went dry. This was a very real initial reaction we both had.

 

Hello! You'd think something like that alone would mean we were destined for greatness, right? I mean, a Hollywood-like meeting fit for a great romance. And a great romance it was in many ways - except for all the pain surrounding it. Before we started our friendship two years later, and then our affair, I later found out that he left his wife for two months about a year before that. I often thought about that, how things would've been so different for us if he had just never gone back to his marriage. But he did and that made all the difference in the world. Or, once he realized what we had, could have, if he had just made a different choice. But, again, he didn't. I often wonder if I had never gotten involved with him if that might've been incentive for him to leave his marriage. It's something I'll never know now. Bottom line, we both made bad choices and ultimately screwed up what we had.

 

In reality, I never stopped loving him. 16 years later, not a lot has changed except that I control how I react to him, and he knows in his heart of hearts that he has lost his control over me. The connection and friendship between us was and is very real and deep. I never knew I could feel that way about anyone. But after many years of an on-again-off-again affair, I had had enough. No self-respecting woman would continue to play that game. He knew what we had, he knew what I felt, but it didn't change anything. Not really. So I made it stop.

 

I see xMM quite a bit even though he lives 3 hrs away. He owns the company I work for so I see him at least once a week in a video meeting. We chat via email every now and then, talking about different stuff going on in our lives. But no matter what, he knows he has breached my faith in him and that I will never crack and let myself get sucked in again. These days, I'm like a bystander watching him with a certain amount of disinterest. Because that's pretty much the way I feel -- I love him but I'm disinterested because he has proven to me that he's willing to hurt me. At the end of the day, that's really all I need to know. Hollywood romance aside, I refuse to be involved in that level of lying again and refuse to let myself be controlled by it. And I'm a much happier person for it.

 

Sorry for the long post but I wanted you to know that you're not the Lone Ranger here. I know how hard it can be but I also know that you alone can change things.

 

I hope that someday you'll see that even though your love and connection to this man may be as natural as breathing, it is harming you on so many levels and you DO control how you react to it and how you allow yourself to be treated. Not only does your well-being come before this relationship, the real problem is that it has become a choice between those two things.

[Ophelia25]

I think I'm a little confused by your situation. It seems you're married but are you and your husband living together or are you separated?

 

I'm not much of an advocate of coming clean. This opinion usually sparks a lot of irate posts but that's just the way I feel about it. It usually does more harm than good, whether you stay with your spouse or not.

 

Aftermath, I agree that it often seems that we can't help who we love, that sometimes it can actually seem like an involuntary reaction. But what we do control is how we respond to that.

 

It was about 16 years ago when I met xMM, sometime around 2000. I was nearly knocked off my feet by him the second I laid eyes on him, and I later found out that he had a similar reaction toward me. Two years later, he described in such detail what I was wearing that I knew exactly which dress he was talking about. He said that while we were talking, his mouth went dry. This was a very real initial reaction we both had.

 

Hello! You'd think something like that alone would mean we were destined for greatness, right? I mean, a Hollywood-like meeting fit for a great romance. And a great romance it was in many ways - except for all the pain surrounding it. Before we started our friendship two years later, and then our affair, I later found out that he left his wife for two months about a year before that. I often thought about that, how things would've been so different for us if he had just never gone back to his marriage. But he did and that made all the difference in the world. Or, once he realized what we had, could have, if he had just made a different choice. But, again, he didn't. I often wonder if I had never gotten involved with him if that might've been incentive for him to leave his marriage. It's something I'll never know now. Bottom line, we both made bad choices and ultimately screwed up what we had.

 

In reality, I never stopped loving him. 16 years later, not a lot has changed except that I control how I react to him, and he knows in his heart of hearts that he has lost his control over me. The connection and friendship between us was and is very real and deep. I never knew I could feel that way about anyone. But after many years of an on-again-off-again affair, I had had enough. No self-respecting woman would continue to play that game. He knew what we had, he knew what I felt, but it didn't change anything. Not really. So I made it stop.

 

I see xMM quite a bit even though he lives 3 hrs away. He owns the company I work for so I see him at least once a week in a video meeting. We chat via email every now and then, talking about different stuff going on in our lives. But no matter what, he knows he has breached my faith in him and that I will never crack and let myself get sucked in again. These days, I'm like a bystander watching him with a certain amount of disinterest. Because that's pretty much the way I feel -- I love him but I'm disinterested because he has proven to me that he's willing to hurt me. At the end of the day, that's really all I need to know. Hollywood romance aside, I refuse to be involved in that level of lying again and refuse to let myself be controlled by it. And I'm a much happier person for it.

 

Sorry for the long post but I wanted you to know that you're not the Lone Ranger here. I know how hard it can be but I also know that you alone can change things.

 

I hope that someday you'll see that even though your love and connection to this man may be as natural as breathing, it is harming you on so many levels and you DO control how you react to it and how you allow yourself to be treated. Not only does your well-being come before this relationship, the real problem is that it has become a choice between those two things.

 

This post gives me more hope than many. I realize that the best possible course of action for these situations is NC forever and ever. And those of you have achieved it for days, weeks, months, YEARS, seem confident and determined. And I admire that tremendously. And perhaps I am soon to learn that my 25 year friendship+affair is toxic and there is no other choice that will work for me but NC. Having tried repeatedly (okay, that's not quite true, he tries repeatedly and I let him) over the last 5 years, it seems like a real waste of effort to me now, because he keeps breaking it and I keep letting him.

 

But I feel like my love for him is waning in some ways because of how easily he can hurt me when feels like it. The first couple of times he tried NC, he was hesitant, being forced to, sorry, depressed, telling me he loved me no matter what, blah, blah, blah. The last couple of times he's been, still indecisive, but more like, "Let's try this for awhile." I'm sure it's because his wife knows he still talks to me, and knows (as any person with sense does) that as hard as we struggle to maintain a "friends" kind of relationship, it will not succeed when we have such strong feelings, sexual or otherwise. I'm sure he knows this too, but can't let go.

 

That said, maybe it's possible to go backward a little if I can become determined not to let him in anymore, knowing it will just hurt. I feel a little more that way after this last NC period. Yes, he came back. And he was precisely the same as he always has been, flirty, demanding, sexual, but not really concerned or caring. I think I may be coming to the understanding that my feelings are based on complete fantasy (yes, I KNOW this, but have trouble believing it because they are so strong and I've had them for 25 years. I had a real everyday relationship with him for 3 years (albeit we were 16-19) before we were married to other people, so I know many of the bad things and like him anyway). But, I am still caught up in the over the top "first love" feelings, and those coupled with affair delusion are difficult to overcome. I think, though, that he has. But, how can he give up a cute, devoted girl, his first love, who will flirt unabashedly with him anytime he feels the urge?

 

Anyway, I think that bathtub makes a really good point - even if you can't completely do away with the AP, as I'm not sure I can right now, coming to terms with who he really is and who YOU really are because of the A might help you take a step back. As much as you love him, are you willing to let him continue to hurt you? I feel like I have no choice, because I want him in my life. But the info above shows that a choice is possible. And good! Working toward it. Babysteps.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Ophelia25

[bathtub-row]

What helped me end things for good with xMM was knowing that no longer giving myself to him would cause him to respect me -- and I'd respect myself again.

 

The last time he was in town, he invited me to his hotel room. Our affair had been over for a year or two by then. I turned him down. The next day, he told me I was smart to do that. He actually seemed relieved that he didn't have to endure the day-after guilt.

 

It was then that I let him know that as long as he and I were sleeping together, I was going to have expectations of him, and that if we continued our affair, we would end up hating one another because of that. Now, we were having this conversation in an office with the door shut. It makes me laugh now. At the office, where the president and one of his managers are discussing their affair. Kind of funny when I think about it. Kind of not.

 

But it's over and has been for about 5 yrs (I've actually lost track). What's left is a very loose friendship; meaning that we still converse every now and then but the connection is gone and wild horses couldn't drag me back there again.

[The Aftermath]

Its been a while since I posted. MM slowly made his way back into my life in March and things went downhill since then.. I was back in the A and was ashamed (some vicious posts didnt help when I was already feeling lower than dirt). Mid-April we drove together to the DNA testing center & spent the day together with our daughter. Results came in only 2 days later and confirmed she was still his little girl. I requested a copy in the mail and assumed the envelope would be unmarked.

 

Fast forward to tonight...I ended the A last week and have not talked to xMM for a few days. ExH and I planned a date to talk about J after my oldest graduated from HS. So it wouldve been next weekend. ExH told me this past week during a text argument that he knows why I wont send him a pic of this man...he said once his suspicions are confirmed hes gonna cut me off. I think he knows who it is, but probably does not get the connection to our daughter.

 

Tonight my oldest got the mail (its been a long time since we checked the mail). She normally throws it in a tote and doesnt look at it and I assumed tonight that was the case. I looked thru the mail when she was in the shower and found the DNA testing center sent me the ORIGINAL results and the envelope had their address and 'DNA Paternity Testing Center' written on it.

 

I told my girls I had to put something in the safe and I opened the envelope in the room and locked the results in the safe. I threw the envelope in the trash and threw other papers on top. As we were about to walk out the front door my oldest asked "Whats that DNA paternity testing thing?" My youngest, my daughter with xMM then asked "What DNA paternity thing??" My heart started racing and I tried to change the subject, told her I hadnt checked all my mail, some mail came in for her Dad so we'd better give it to him, etc and that we got the neighbors mail by accident. She said "No, the manila envelope is gone and it had your name on it".

 

I can only imagine what she must be thinking right now. I did NOT want her to find out this way if shes letting her mind go there. I wanted to talk to my xH about it and discuss with him when we should tell both girls. I also am scared she will tell exH before we meet and I wanted him to hear it from me...he deserves that much and I have to face him once and for all and answer for what I did. Tomorrow I planned to take both girls out and spend quality time with them and now Im feeling like maybe a change of plans is in order & I should take my oldest to eat just us and tell her the truth.

Edited May 30, 2016 by The Aftermath

[HeCantBreakMe]

Its been a while since I posted. MM slowly made his way back into my life in March and things went downhill since then.. I was back in the A and was ashamed (some vicious posts didnt help when I was already feeling lower than dirt). Mid-April we drove together to the DNA testing center & spent the day together with our daughter. Results came in only 2 days later and confirmed she was still his little girl. I requested a copy in the mail and assumed the envelope would be unmarked.

 

Fast forward to tonight...I ended the A last week and have not talked to xMM for a few days. ExH and I planned a date to talk about J after my oldest graduated from HS. So it wouldve been next weekend. ExH told me this past week during a text argument that he knows why I wont send him a pic of this man...he said once his suspicions are confirmed hes gonna cut me off. I think he knows who it is, but probably does not get the connection to our daughter.

 

Tonight my oldest got the mail (its been a long time since we checked the mail). She normally throws it in a tote and doesnt look at it and I assumed tonight that was the case. I looked thru the mail when she was in the shower and found the DNA testing center sent me the ORIGINAL results and the envelope had their address and 'DNA Paternity Testing Center' written on it.

 

I told my girls I had to put something in the safe and I opened the envelope in the room and locked the results in the safe. I threw the envelope in the trash and threw other papers on top. As we were about to walk out the front door my oldest asked "Whats that DNA paternity testing thing?" My youngest, my daughter with xMM then asked "What DNA paternity thing??" My heart started racing and I tried to change the subject, told her I hadnt checked all my mail, some mail came in for her Dad so we'd better give it to him, etc and that we got the neighbors mail by accident. She said "No, the manila envelope is gone and it had your name on it".

 

I can only imagine what she must be thinking right now. I did NOT want her to find out this way if shes letting her mind go there. I wanted to talk to my xH about it and discuss with him when we should tell both girls. I also am scared she will tell exH before we meet and I wanted him to hear it from me...he deserves that much and I have to face him once and for all and answer for what I did. Tomorrow I planned to take both girls out and spend quality time with them and now Im feeling like maybe a change of plans is in order & I should take my oldest to eat just us and tell her the truth.

 

Oh my Aftermath, I am so sorry! I do not know your full story as I am new here but I cannot imagine what you are going through. What you are going through was always a possibility in the back of my mind if I had ever gotten pregnant from my exMM. How are you dealing with not talking to him but sharing a daughter? Does his wife know?

 

You do not have to revisit or answer my questions if it is too painful for you, but I am sure thinking about you and sending good thoughts your way. Take care of yourself and your little blessings!

[Satu]

All you can do is beg for forgiveness from all concerned and hope for the best.

 

More lies won't fix it.

[privategal]

Get everything off your chest and out in the open with everyone.

Be gracious, apologetic, understanding of any hurt feelings and fallout.

Then you can begin to start a new feeling free and open having faced the music.

[Sabella]

Hi Aftermath,

 

I didn't read through your original thread completly, but I did read most of it. I am sorry for all the turmoil you are going though. I know you are down and I feel for you.

 

I think you really need to take control of this now, for your own sanity. You should tell xH now, dont put it off. It Will come out eventually, I just know it. You need to talk to him no matter how difficult, and come up with a plan to talk to your daughter right away. You need to be on the same page with him about how you handle this.

 

I know it will be hard for you and you are dreading and avoiding it. But that really does need to happen and happen right away sweetie.

 

I think you also really need to get clear in your head about AP. He has been in and out of your life, like a bad fungus. The A is like and addiction, that makes it really hard to see everything clearly, like impossible in some instances. This really does sound like the case with you and him. I know your feelings run deep for him. The only way to make sense of this is to step away, get some clarity, no matter how you want it to play out.

 

Take this time for focus on your daughter and xH and get that part sorted out. They deserve your full attention now. I hope I don't come across too bossy to you, that is not my intention. I know you are hurting, and I am truly sorry for that part. I just think now is the time to take control, so you can sort things out and stop being in "reaction" mode.

 

I wish you nothing but the best, please take care.

[Mayday2016]

I can't believe it said that. I went through labcorp and it just was stamped 'labcorp' on the front. It didn't even say "test results" let alone "DNA paternity results" -- that seems very privacy invasive.

[elaine567]

..............

[The Aftermath]

I can't believe it said that. I went through labcorp and it just was stamped 'labcorp' on the front. It didn't even say "test results" let alone "DNA paternity results" -- that seems very privacy invasive.

 

That is what I was expecting as well. You would think theyd understand the confidential nature of these DNA test results.

 

Im sorry I havent had time to reply to the previous responses. I have both my girls for the holiday so have been out spending time with them. My teen hasnt mentioned the test results since last night.

[whichwayisup]

Do talk to your exH as soon as you can. He knows but needs you to confirm it. He is prepared, probably much more than you realize and he's not going to spiral down to a depression and harm himself (i know you were very concerned about that before). The truth will set you free and it's time for you two to figure out a way to tell the kids and let them know they are loved and even though things will be okay.

 

Be strong and don't let fear get in the way of coming clean. It's time.

[Bufo]

Some time ago a poster named Grammies mentioned something that may have a huge impact here. Different states have different rules about establishing and disproving paternity. Including time limits. Which may or may not have already passed in your state.

 

 

It's all well and good to speculate. But I suggest a legal consult about this as it will provide another bit of decision specific information.

 

Can BH act to disown paternity? Can you establish paternity? If the answers are negative, then what? Can OM seek parental rights? Same question and answer.

 

While not one lawyer in 100 could give you an answer off the top of the head this is governed by Statute of Limitations or case law. It's not that hard to look up. This isn't the sort of issue a practicing lawyer runs into every day.

 

If in the eyes if the law this dispute is over you are left to your own devices. Tell anyway if nothing can be done? BH didn't ask for this mess yet he will be the loser and feel that way.

 

Free legal advice here worth probably exactly what you paid for it.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Bufo
Typo.

[anika99]

Sassy Girl - I suspected J was DD's father when I first became pregnant with her, but I only recently did the paternity test. When I collected the sample from J he told me "I already KNOW she's my daughter". He said he saw the resemblance in the pictures I showed him. J knows my H's name, but he and his W don't know where my H lives. I think right now she doesn't care about "outing" me because J already told her it was my plan to break it to my H anyway...I think right now all she cares about is that she "has" J.

 

I only recently decided to do the paternity test last year after confiding in a close friend about my relationship with J. She asked me how I could deal with not knowing & I told her that I have wondered since DD was born 8 years ago. She urged me to take the test and so I ordered one of those at-home paternity tests. I was shaking when I logged in to read the results, but the paperwork only confirmed what I felt in my heart all along - that she was J's.

.

 

I don't understand. When you first started this thread back in feb/early march you said you already had a paternity test done, had the results and they proved the MM was the father so why are you saying it was done mid-April

[The Aftermath]

Oh my Aftermath, I am so sorry! I do not know your full story as I am new here but I cannot imagine what you are going through. What you are going through was always a possibility in the back of my mind if I had ever gotten pregnant from my exMM. How are you dealing with not talking to him but sharing a daughter? Does his wife know?

 

You do not have to revisit or answer my questions if it is too painful for you, but I am sure thinking about you and sending good thoughts your way. Take care of yourself and your little blessings!

 

I don't plan to let him see DD again until I confess to my exH because it upset him knowing "J" spent time with DD. ExH has his suspicions J is the same person I had the A with years ago, but he thinks the reason he is spending time with DD is because J is dating me or I am sleeping with him (I don't think he suspects it is because J is her father). J told his wife about our daughter the same night his W called me and he admitted to the A.

 

All you can do is beg for forgiveness from all concerned and hope for the best.

 

More lies won't fix it.

 

I don't plan on lying to him or my oldest. I was caught off guard and didn't want her to find out that way. I wanted to talk to my exH and together come up with a plan for when/how we tell each of the girls.

 

Get everything off your chest and out in the open with everyone.

Be gracious, apologetic, understanding of any hurt feelings and fallout.

Then you can begin to start a new feeling free and open having faced the music.

 

I have so many regrets. If I wasn't a coward 8 years ago things would be so different. I am actually now looking forward to the day we talk so I can look exH in the eye when I see him instead of hating myself for keeping this horrible secret. It is such a burden.

 

Hi Aftermath,

 

I didn't read through your original thread completly, but I did read most of it. I am sorry for all the turmoil you are going though. I know you are down and I feel for you.

 

I think you really need to take control of this now, for your own sanity. You should tell xH now, dont put it off. It Will come out eventually, I just know it. You need to talk to him no matter how difficult, and come up with a plan to talk to your daughter right away. You need to be on the same page with him about how you handle this.

 

I know it will be hard for you and you are dreading and avoiding it. But that really does need to happen and happen right away sweetie.

 

I think you also really need to get clear in your head about AP. He has been in and out of your life, like a bad fungus. The A is like and addiction, that makes it really hard to see everything clearly, like impossible in some instances. This really does sound like the case with you and him. I know your feelings run deep for him. The only way to make sense of this is to step away, get some clarity, no matter how you want it to play out.

 

Take this time for focus on your daughter and xH and get that part sorted out. They deserve your full attention now. I hope I don't come across too bossy to you, that is not my intention. I know you are hurting, and I am truly sorry for that part. I just think now is the time to take control, so you can sort things out and stop being in "reaction" mode.

 

I wish you nothing but the best, please take care.

 

Appreciate the well wishes. ExH and I didn't want to fight before our oldest D's graduation so we agreed to speak after her grad. and all the grad parties over the weekend were done. I really am dreading it as I don't even know how to begin that conversation. I know he will still love her, but of course I worry that he (and his family) will look at / treat DD differently now.

 

Regarding exMM ("J")...I do feel differently about him now. I think I finally realized what a coward and disappointment he was and that allowed me to be the one to end things this time and mean it. He is depressed now, drinking himself to sleep, stuck in this self-pity rut...he isn't the person I used to know. He's not the person I fell in love with. Now that he seems to be falling deeper into this black hole, stuck in his self-made prison...I am wondering if it's a good idea for him to spend time with our daughter.

[The Aftermath]

Do talk to your exH as soon as you can. He knows but needs you to confirm it. He is prepared, probably much more than you realize and he's not going to spiral down to a depression and harm himself (i know you were very concerned about that before). The truth will set you free and it's time for you two to figure out a way to tell the kids and let them know they are loved and even though things will be okay.

 

Be strong and don't let fear get in the way of coming clean. It's time.

 

From what exH said during our argument he suspects J is the same person I had an A with 8 years ago, but he hasn't put 2+2 together yet. ExH seems to think I am just seeing J again and that's the reason he's around our daughter. I know it sounds strange, but I DO hope that somewhere deep down he suspected my A was not just an EA, but a PA so that when I tell him about DD's paternity it is not such a shock. I do agree that it's time. I feel like the pat. test coming in the mail in a marked envelope was a sign.

 

Some time ago a poster named Grammies mentioned something that may have a huge impact here. Different states have different rules about establishing and disproving paternity. Including time limits. Which may or may not have already passed in your state.

 

 

It's all well and good to speculate. But I suggest a legal consult about this as it will provide another bit of decision specific information.

 

Can BH act to disown paternity? Can you establish paternity? If the answers are negative, then what? Can OM seek parental rights? Same question and answer.

 

While not one lawyer in 100 could give you an answer off the top of the head this is governed by Statute of Limitations or case law. It's not that hard to look up. This isn't the sort of issue a practicing lawyer runs into every day.

 

If in the eyes if the law this dispute is over you are left to your own devices. Tell anyway if nothing can be done? BH didn't ask for this mess yet he will be the loser and feel that way.

 

Free legal advice here worth probably exactly what you paid for it.

 

ExH claimed he wants to "cut me off" (financially) simply because he finds out I'm dating. I honestly feel that he would not want to disown paternity. I know he loves DD. I guess the only thing we'd have to discuss is if he still wants to help me financially with her at all. I don't think he's the kind of man who would shun our daughter simply because he finds out she's not bio. his...at least that is my hope.

 

Oh I forgot to mention that months ago when J left his W and we were "out in the open" he saw DD's school ID. He told me he wanted to change her last name on the birth certificate, but I told him that would be taking away her identity. He might've just been talking out of his a$$ in that moment because he never mentioned it again.

 

Also, I don't have the money to consult with an attorney. The only family law attorney I know is my "friend" from 15 years ago (the MM who has been trying to come up with various reasons for me to come over, etc). ExH will be cutting me off soon and while J has offered to help me I am just so disgusted and disappointed in him right now that I'm trying to avoid dealing with him right now. I'm not worried about falling back into the A or anything. I am trying to be patient because I do believe he is depressed, but it's just hard talking to someone who is filled with such negativity and who keeps talking about how they hate their life/deserve no happiness/wish they were dead because everyone would be better off.

 

.

 

I don't understand. When you first started this thread back in feb/early march you said you already had a paternity test done, had the results and they proved the MM was the father so why are you saying it was done mid-April

 

Hi Anika. I did one of those home DNA tests end of October? This test was done at the clinic so the results are notarized and there's a chain of custody. Originally J's wife wanted this done so that she could "allow" him to see our daughter. When he told her he didn't want to continue with reconciliation his W asked if he could please still do the test so that if our DD ever were to meet her half-siblings his W could have peace of mind knowing for sure DD was his.

Edited May 31, 2016 by The Aftermath