The danger of rose colored glasses?

[heartwhole]

I see a lot of threads on another infidelity forum, and they fit a certain formula:

 

"My wayward spouse is doing everything possible and is completely remorseful and transparent, but here's my problem . . ."

 

And I think, am I the only betrayed spouse whose wayward is *not* doing everything right? It's not that I haven't seen progress. I have. My husband has gotten to the root of a lot of issues, has learned how to analyze himself, and has been very giving, probably 10x more giving than he was before. He loves me like a schoolboy and has been very romantic. I absolutely see consistent progress and have reason to hope it's permanent.

 

But would I say he's "doing everything possible"? Has he turned into a Stepford Husband? No. It would be nice if he initiated more than 5% of our conversations about our marriage and the affair. It would be nice if he read books on healing and moving forward on his own initiative (he does it when I ask). It would be nice if expressed remorse more effusively (he has trouble with this). It would be nice if he weren't still defensive about his faults.

 

So when I read the posts about how their former cheater is now a model of remorse but they still have problems, my assumption is that the statement about the cheater's perfect behavior is an example of rose-colored glasses. Or worse, that they're getting played. Because I don't think you can possibly turn into a completely remorseful and patient and selfless person overnight. If the change is going to be lasting, it's going to be the result of a lot of soul-searching and growing pains.

 

Am I just being a Debbie Downer because I don't think the "model former cheater" label applies to my husband? Or do you think newly betrayed spouses should be warned of the danger of viewing their cheater through rose colored glasses?

[Mrs. John Adams]

It took me thirty years to fully understand remorse.

 

It takes time.. There is no overnight success... And if there is.. I am afraid I would question it.

[flowergirl14]

Be careful my wh did everything and then some to show remorse. I mean a 180 in our relationship with the kids everything. He continued to cheat under the guise of being mr wonderful. Id say trust your gut. If its too good to be true...it "may" be.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I agree...many BS put way too much emphasis on the superficial things. Housework and childcare do not reflect any internal changes.

 

How often have we read about MC in the aftermath of an affair?

 

For myself...I do not see the point of it. Neither party is functioning from an authentic or trusting place.

 

Each party needs to heal themselves first. They need to start MC from a more solid foundation of self.

 

A BS needs to be there from a place of self strength/worth not from a place of feeling rejected (greater likelihood of accepting less from their WS).

 

A WS needs to be there from a place of remorse, clarity and empathy.

[Joie]

I don't think my WS is perfect. Heck, he wasn't perfect when we got married. I don't expect him to be perfect now.

 

In a perfect world he would realize that even though I don't talk about the A with him everyday it is still hovering in the back ground.

 

The other night I talked to him about how he was starting to not call me to tell me where he was in the evening. He seem surprised that I still needed that. He also seem disappointed that when I told him he was probably going to need to make the effort for years to come.

 

A couple months ago he wanted us to go to a wedding that his AP would be at....Hell NO! I was upset for days that he even suggested it. What kind of idiot thinks that would be a good idea.

[Mr. Lucky]

How often have we read about MC in the aftermath of an affair?

 

For myself...I do not see the point of it. Neither party is functioning from an authentic or trusting place.

 

Each party needs to heal themselves first. They need to start MC from a more solid foundation of self.

 

A BS needs to be there from a place of self strength/worth not from a place of feeling rejected (greater likelihood of accepting less from their WS).

 

A WS needs to be there from a place of remorse, clarity and empathy.

 

I think what you describe is an important step in the process. But I also feel that MC can serve a purpose post D-Day before that step in simply providing both parties a safe and structured forum in which they can express themselves. Many marriages run aground because of poor or non-existent communication. You have to be able to talk before you can heal...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mcjordan]

I don't think my WS is perfect. Heck, he wasn't perfect when we got married. I don't expect him to be perfect now.

 

In a perfect world he would realize that even though I don't talk about the A with him everyday it is still hovering in the back ground.

 

The other night I talked to him about how he was starting to not call me to tell me where he was in the evening. He seem surprised that I still needed that. He also seem disappointed that when I told him he was probably going to need to make the effort for years to come.

 

A couple months ago he wanted us to go to a wedding that his AP would be at....Hell NO! I was upset for days that he even suggested it. What kind of idiot thinks that would be a good idea.

 

 

I think that a person has to wrap themselves in a lot of selfish thinking and turn off a lot of their empathy to cheat. And it doesn't come back on instantly. The fact that he even suggested the wedding shows that. I don't think any cheating spouse does everything right immediately. I think the more they change the more they can see the awfulness of what they did and the more they can step up their game. I'm always skeptical when I see someone just months out from D-Day tossing out feel good absolutes, telling other what to do, raging about their former AP, and saying very little about how horrified they are over their OWN actions.

[flowergirl14]

I don't think my WS is perfect. Heck, he wasn't perfect when we got married. I don't expect him to be perfect now.

 

In a perfect world he would realize that even though I don't talk about the A with him everyday it is still hovering in the back ground.

 

The other night I talked to him about how he was starting to not call me to tell me where he was in the evening. He seem surprised that I still needed that. He also seem disappointed that when I told him he was probably going to need to make the effort for years to come.

 

A couple months ago he wanted us to go to a wedding that his AP would be at....Hell NO! I was upset for days that he even suggested it. What kind of idiot thinks that would be a good idea.

My wh asked me if we ran into the ow(she was a past ow) should he introduce me to her? Not only HELL NO but Hell to the F**k No!

[Liam1]

I think what you describe is an important step in the process. But I also feel that MC can serve a purpose post D-Day before that step in simply providing both parties a safe and structured forum in which they can express themselves. Many marriages run aground because of poor or non-existent communication. You have to be able to talk before you can heal...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Good Point.

 

I think one problem a lot of BS's make is failing to take a look at their own flaws. They are afraid to delve into the part THEY may have played in the breakdown of the marriage that preceded the affair.

 

IMO, that is why so many reconciliations fail. The BS refuses to take a look at themselves and only prefer to berate and blame the cheating spouse.

 

The reason for WHY the spouse cheated is important to understand, for both the the BS and The cheating spouse.

 

A good counselor will address the affair first and then LATER, ask the betrayed spouse to take a look at themselves.

 

I think a good proportion of BS's refuse to do that and they continue to blame and berate the cheating spouse, no matter what changes he/she makes.

 

IMO, that will likely cause the cheating spouse to throw in the towel and ask for a divorce.

 

My spouse was willing to take a look at her part in the breakdown of our marriage, and IMO, that is why our reconciliation is going well.

 

The counselor also pointed out that losing interest in sex and refusing to get help or counseling about it when asked, was in essence a breaking of HER marriage vow to me.

 

I am lucky that she was intelligent enough to understand the point the counselor was making and did get help.

[Zenstudent]

And this is why my default has changed from R to D.

 

The mindset that a betrayed person should assume fault and take responsibility for their partners choice to betray them.

 

What would be the ws part of their bs' part of the ws choice to chat? And where does this chain end?

 

I'm actually surprised by this post from you Liam.

[Midwestmissy]

revoncilingbisnt a linear journey, that's for sure. The epiphanies and realizations in mc don't unfold all at once. Since my wh divulged everything 18 months ago, there haven't been set backs as far as his honesty or transparency. He hasn't done anything for me to call my lawyer. It's slow and hard. But there's been a lot of progress.

 

Is it rose colored glasses? I'm sure there is. No blinders though. I have a lot of support and no one has said "you need to leave". This affair wasn't a final straw in our marriage - it was the only straw. I understand that's enough to end a marriage, but I'm giving him a chance.

[elaine567]

But would I say he's "doing everything possible"? Has he turned into a Stepford Husband? No. It would be nice if he initiated more than 5% of our conversations about our marriage and the affair. It would be nice if he read books on healing and moving forward on his own initiative (he does it when I ask). It would be nice if expressed remorse more effusively (he has trouble with this). It would be nice if he weren't still defensive about his faults.

After a while some WSs I read do seem to get annoyed, as if

"My God why is she still bringing this up?"

As if it will just go away by magic...

[Mrs. John Adams]

And this is why my default has changed from R to D.

 

The mindset that a betrayed person should assume fault and take responsibility for their partners choice to betray them.

 

What would be the ws part of their bs' part of the ws choice to chat? And where does this chain end?

 

I'm actually surprised by this post from you Liam.

 

I don't think Liam means that the betrayed should assume FAULT for the cheating....

 

but the breakdown of the marriage certainly falls on both partners. My affair is 100% on me...my husband is in no way responsible for my choice to cheat. But our relationship prior to my cheating is on both of us.

 

Lack of communication, dissension, anger, there are all KINDS of pre existing conditions of marriages....

 

Those are the circumstances...the atmosphere....of the conditions of the marriage.

 

Do not misconstrue circumstances for REASONS. The difference is one is a condition...and one is an excuse.

 

When you start placing blame on the other person for YOUR choice to cheat...is an excuse.

 

To simply explain where the marriage was prior to the affair....is the circumstance.

 

For example....say you have a couple who is not sexually active...they even sleep in separate bedrooms. They no longer communicate any intimacy....they are merely existing in the same house. This is the circumstance.

 

The husband....has an affair. He says to his wife....well...you would not go to bed with me. What did you expect me to do?

 

NOW...it is an excuse...because NOW it is placing blame and giving a reason to validate the affair.

 

No matter the circumstances...no matter the relationship....infidelity is not the right choice.

 

Does this make sense?

[JourneyLady]

And no one forces them to LIE under ANY circumstance...

 

Hiding important things in a relationship is a character flaw, no matter how one slices it. If a person really honestly feel they can't be themselves in a relationship, it is wise to leave before they cheat.

 

The real betrayal is letting someone think they know you when they don't.

[thecharade]

When someone betrays you, you scream, "That bleepity bleeping bleep!!!!" For sure. Deservedly so.

 

But at what point do you finally ask, "What was my role in getting to this point?" A healthy person always, always asks this question. Being a victim is powerless.

 

If you do not learn your own role in how your life ended up this way--even if it is a somewhat small role--then you are doomed to repeat.

 

At a very minimum, your picker may be broken. At a maximum, you may be very codependent. And there are many smaller areas to work on in between. But while your WS owns all of their many flaws, can the BS see no role in the marital dynamic or patterns?

[thecharade]

I have never met a couple who divorced where the reason they were divorcing shocked me. In other words, this is who they chose, and this person was always this way. So it did not shock me when certain personality traits became a problem.

 

Are we as responsible for choosing broken people as they are for being broken?

[ShatteredLady]

It's funny (not hahaha), when I first met my H I remember thinking how great he was at communicating his feelings. It's only with a LOT of hindsight that I realize it was because he was talking about his ex & how terrible she was!

 

Reading correspondence between him & OW really reminded me. I wonder if that's a major part of the dynamic in affairs. You know? "He's such an open, emotional man. His W is such a cow to him!". The next time he will be that open will be when he's criticizing you, the OW, after d-day.

 

 

Do BS's really feel that they weren't complicit in the state of the M? I did. Maybe because I was already depressed, medicated & recovering from surgery. I blamed myself for every single thing I could imagine. Even the weather was my fault in my head!!

 

After a while I started to realize that I was (& am) blamed for things that only happened AFTER he was in the A & treating me with such cruelty.

 

We talk about re-writing marital history as if it's an intentional thing. I think my H truly believed some of our new history...to the extent that I went back through emails between us, my journal, things I wrote my friends, photographs etc. to prove to MYSELF & my H the truth.

 

Obviously no marriage is perfect. Some marriages are going through a really rough patch making an already weak partner more vulnerable. I'm just worried that there are more BS's like me who take the lions share of blame making it so much easier for the WH/WW to deny their responsibility.

 

I'm trying to have a strong day! & I've been reading my first thread here when I didn't know about the OW. I hated myself! It's so painful to read now, brutal remembering how I felt at the time.

 

Another thing.... My H NEVER once complained, even mentioned in passing, the things that were so bad that they drove him to the OW. Even once the A had started & he was becoming more & more distant & mean he would say, "Work is terrible at the moment!" etc. when I questioned him.

 

I still don't know if that's conflict avoidance or he truly expected me to spring out of my sick bed & jump on him & spoil him reminding him of how special he was!!

 

Oh now this is turning into a vent!! Sorry

[heartwhole]

Conversations turn as they will. I was referring to one particular dynamic in reconciliation, which is the night to day transformation of the cheater, or at least the betrayed spouse's view that this transformation has taken place. So while many WSes do place and deflect blame onto the betrayed spouse for their affair, in my scenario, I'm talking about the ones who seemingly don't.

 

 

Do BS's really feel that they weren't complicit in the state of the M? I did. Maybe because I was already depressed, medicated & recovering from surgery. I blamed myself for every single thing I could imagine. Even the weather was my fault in my head!!

 

 

To me, there's a clear distinction between your responsibility for the state of your marriage and your responsibility for what the spouse chooses to do based on that state. The first is clearly a joint responsibility. The second is solely on the cheater. I never took any blame for that, just as I wouldn't take any blame if he spent all our money at the casinos because he was so stressed out by our marriage that he needed an escape.

 

Of course I want to hear my husband's concerns and needs, and I want to respond to them. That's just part of a healthy marriage. That's what I have to offer. Finding out that your spouse is a cheater throws into question whether they can reciprocate. And if they can go from night to day in an instant, you have to wonder if it's real and lasting change.

[Joie]

Good Point.

 

I think one problem a lot of BS's make is failing to take a look at their own flaws. They are afraid to delve into the part THEY may have played in the breakdown of the marriage that preceded the affair.

 

IMO, that is why so many reconciliations fail. The BS refuses to take a look at themselves and only prefer to berate and blame the cheating spouse.

 

The reason for WHY the spouse cheated is important to understand, for both the the BS and The cheating spouse.

 

A good counselor will address the affair first and then LATER, ask the betrayed spouse to take a look at themselves.

 

I actually agree with this. The first few MC appointments we talked about the A but it very quickly was no longer the focus of our sessions. We now spend a great deal of time talking about how we communicate with each other. Same thing with IC. I spent the first couple sessions venting my anger at both my H and the AP. But it quickly moved on to how I can be happy.

 

My H is 100% responsible for his A. But I am an equal partner in our marriage. He didn't cause our marriage to have problems by himself. We both contributed to the problems and we both have to work to fix them.

[OneLov]

OP,

 

I think that to those BS's, their WS's actions/efforts fulfill their own individual expectations. Just like no two affairs are completely alike; no two reconciling couples are the same. Sure, then there are those who feel better by lying to themselves and everyone else. But only the two in the relationship know if it's really working or not.

Edited March 17, 2016 by OneLov

[mcjordan]

I have never met a couple who divorced where the reason they were divorcing shocked me. In other words, this is who they chose, and this person was always this way. So it did not shock me when certain personality traits became a problem.

 

Are we as responsible for choosing broken people as they are for being broken?

 

There are those among us who have superpowers. The rest of us do the best we can to see and know who the person we are marrying is. And sometimes we miss things. I very seriously doubt there actually IS anyone alive who can spot EVERY flaw in a person.

 

So no, I do not think the person who missed something (not to mention, people DO grow and change and evolve and respond to life, so maybe the flaw wasn't there at the beginning) is as responsible as the person who made the hurtful choice.

 

Then again, I'm also skeptical of 900 psychic numbers and the Long Island Medium....

[wmacbride]

There are those among us who have superpowers. The rest of us do the best we can to see and know who the person we are marrying is. And sometimes we miss things. I very seriously doubt there actually IS anyone alive who can spot EVERY flaw in a person.

 

So no, I do not think the person who missed something (not to mention, people DO grow and change and evolve and respond to life, so maybe the flaw wasn't there at the beginning) is as responsible as the person who made the hurtful choice.

 

Then again, I'm also skeptical of 900 psychic numbers and the Long Island Medium....

 

It can be hard, if not impossible, to predict someone's future behavior accurately.

All you can do is make your best prediction based on what you know.

[Liam1]

And this is why my default has changed from R to D.

 

The mindset that a betrayed person should assume fault and take responsibility for their partners choice to betray them.

 

What would be the ws part of their bs' part of the ws choice to chat? And where does this chain end?

 

I'm actually surprised by this post from you Liam.

 

Well, Zenstudent, I am surprised that you have the title ZEN in your screen name.

 

Your thinking is not very ZEN like.

 

I get the picture. You are perfect. I am glad there is at least one human on earth who is or at least thinks they are perfect.

[mcjordan]

I think that the state of a marriage or the state of someone's happiness and the choice to cheat are two separate issues.

 

Two people can be responsible for the state of a marriage. My spouse can bear some responsibility for my state of unhappiness within the marriage. Those are not justifications (unless they are used as such). Those may just be plain fact. If my spouse yells at me every day and withholds affection, then yes, they ARE at least partly responsible for the unhappy state of the marriage.

 

BUT...when someone makes a directly CAUSATIVE link between the unhappy marriage and the independent choice to COPE with that unhappiness by cheating....they are on very dangerous ground. They are skirting the old playground "he made me do it!" fallacy. My spouse might make me unhappy. My spouse does not make me cheat.

 

And a truly remorseful and humble spouse won't even TOUCH "what my BS did wrong" for, IMO, the first YEAR of reconciliation. That is like someone nearly dying in a horrible accident, and you want to talk about the cosmetic surgery they need to have on their nose while they are still bleeding out and in danger of losing a limb.

 

So yes, if a WS is just a few months out and they are pushing the "fix your BS flaws" issue...they don't get it.

[heartwhole]

I think that when the WS fixates on the failings of the BS throughout recovery, it means that not much recovery is going on. It's the other side of the coin from when the BS fixates on the OP. Both need to focus on themselves and the marriage.

 

My WH is a conflict avoider. He has built up a lot of resentments, and on DD they all came out. I didn't do enough things with him. I didn't ask about his day enough. Etc. And since I am normally someone who responds empathetically to my partner's complaints, I was all, "Well of course we can work on that!"

 

But it was a ridiculous scenario because it's his responsibility to address his needs and concerns as they come up. It was his choice to swallow them, feed them, and let them fester.

 

The resentment was him placing the blame for circumstances beyond both of our control onto me. He did that instead of grieving the loss of the life we would have if I weren't sick with a chronic condition that limits my functioning. Then he used that resentment as justification for cheating. It's the old, "But Mom! It's not my fault!" deflection. It's not my fault that I have to take these drugs because my life is so stressful! It's not my fault that I spend all my money on buying things I don't need because I'm so stressed out and it's the only thing that makes me happy. It's not my fault that I got a secret girlfriend and exposed you sexually without your consent because you didn't do enough with me or ask me about my day enough....

 

It's not easy to identify these old habits and patterns. I always thought I was pretty healthy emotionally, but my illness and parenthood and my husband's infidelity have shown me where the chinks are in my armor. Like my husband, I need to learn to read myself better, to cope better. Of course I'm not a paragon of perfection. But I will never take the blame for his short-sighted and reckless response to the stresses we both experienced and contributed to. By that logic, it would be my responsibility to protect him from ever needing to cope with anything in the future, because if it's tough and uncomfortable and stressful, then I should just go out and find him a mistress myself. He doesn't get to cease being an adult the second our marriage hits a rough patch.

 

Enough with the victim-blaming. No, the betrayed spouses are not all perfect. But their imperfection does not mean it's OK to cheat on them.