The danger of rose colored glasses?

[Liam1]

Liam,

 

 

I asked my husband his opinion on it. His view: both the husband and wife are responsible for the state of the marriage. The spouse who cheats, especially if they go out looking for an A, are 100% responsible or their choice to cheat. .

 

 

Well, I see that your husband and I agree. However, my wife is 100 percent responsible for unilaterally refusing to have sex.

 

As my marriage counselor pointed out. She broke her vow to me, and I broke my vow to her. My wife is intelligent enough to understand that logic.

 

For a BS to refuse to accept his/her part in the marital issues is:

 

...acting like a little kid who knocks over the cookie jar and then blames the cookie jar for breaking itself-there was also a lot of eye rolling on his part.

 

Seriously, Mcbride, don't you see whatever you say about your spouse applies to you also.

 

I see a lot of BS's here who appear to be very dismissive of any complaints that their spouses may have had. That is not healthy.

 

It takes two to make a marriage work, and two to make it fail.

 

If you are still blaming your spouse, solely, I would be concerned.

 

Mature love looks at all facets of the marriage.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Liam1

[wmacbride]

Well, I see that your husband and I agree. However, my wife is 100 percent responsible for unilaterally refusing to have sex.

 

As my marriage counselor pointed out. She broke her vow to me, and I broke my vow to her. My wife is intelligent enough to understand that logic.

 

For a BS to refuse to accept his/her part in the marital issues is:

 

...acting like a little kid who knocks over the cookie jar and then blames the cookie jar for breaking itself-there was also a lot of eye rolling on his part.

 

Seriously, Mcbride, don't you see whatever you say about your spouse applies to you also.

 

I see a lot of BS's here who appear to be very dismissive of any complaints that their spouses may have had. That is not healthy.

 

It takes two to make a marriage work, and two to make it fail.

 

If you are still blaming your spouse, solely, I would be concerned.

 

Mature love looks at all facets of the marriage.

 

Um, in my situation, my husband, our counselors, his therapists, psychiatrist and psychologists all said his behavior had little to nothing to do with me. He was incredibly unhappy and both punishing himself and self medicating through the A.

 

Combat PTSD isn't the fault of the spouse. I accept that I should have recognized the signs of it, should have pushed him harder to get help, and I didn't.

 

That does NOT make him choosing to cheat my fault.

 

He is a good man, but at the time, he was incredibly broken.

[waterwoman]

"...acting like a little kid who knocks over the cookie jar and then blames the cookie jar for breaking itself-there was also a lot of eye rolling on his part. "

 

Well a cookie jar tends not to have free-will or a moral sense. Are you really an inanimate object? Human being are blessed with freewill so they can make choices. You chose to have an affair. Your wife chose to be asexual within our marriage. Both choices that had an impact on your relationship. But unless you are a cookie jar you were not compelled to have an affair because of your wife's actions. You CHOSE that course of action in response, out of many other courses of action you could have chosen.

 

The lack of sex is an issue that needs addressing at some point - if remorse on your part is shown and reconciliation proceeds well that will be part and parcel of recovery. But it can't come first. There are also valid grounds for investigating WHY she didn't want to have sex - few women stop wanting sex just to piss off their husbands, there is always an underlying reason and that is important too.

[mcjordan]

I think sometimes the key is timing.

 

I think that in Liam's case, they probably both ended up bleeding. Liam bled from 10,000 cuts over time. His wife was bleeding from a massive, acute hemorrhage.

 

It is true that continued cutting by his wife would hurt Liam. But, in terms of triage, it WAS the massive hemorrhage that needed attention first.

 

That is why I say that while marital issues do need to be addressed, a wise and truly repentant and personally accountable WS will not jump on the "fix the BS" bandwagon for the first 6 months to a year.

[Liam1]

Um, in my situation, my husband, our counselors, his therapists, psychiatrist and psychologists all said his behavior had little to nothing to do with me. He was incredibly unhappy and both punishing himself and self medicating through the A.

 

Combat PTSD isn't the fault of the spouse. I accept that I should have recognized the signs of it, should have pushed him harder to get help, and I didn't.

 

That does NOT make him choosing to cheat my fault.

 

He is a good man, but at the time, he was incredibly broken.

 

Well, your situation sounds unique.

 

PTSD changes the picture totally.

 

There are people with mental illness who will cheat for no reason or who will serial cheat.

 

Others, like my OW, married someone they never loved nor were physically attracted to, but stay because the spouse is their meal ticket.

 

Those are totally different circumstances.

 

Still, there are many wives and husband who are emotionally abusive to their spouse, neglectful of them, disdainful toward them and condescending or withholding of affection.

 

Those types need to own their faults.

 

In most cases, after a spouse cheats, it's much easier to divorce and move on.

 

If a spouse is willing to stay and work on the marriage that is a good sign.

 

But if a BS is still, blaming, shaming, berating and dredging up old memories as a way to get the spouse to tow the line, I guarantee you that WS is not a happy camper.

[Liam1]

 

That is why I say that while marital issues do need to be addressed, a wise and truly repentant and personally accountable WS will not jump on the "fix the BS" bandwagon for the first 6 months to a year.

 

I agree with that.

 

If the couple has an experienced infidelity counselor that counselor will advise the same.

 

Also, IC is important. This way the BS can talk to the counselor alone, without feeling the counselor is taking the WS's side, when the counselor points out the BS's faults

Edited March 18, 2016 by Liam1

[JohnAdams]

My wife had an affair. It is 100% on her. I take no responsibility.

 

 

I had a RA. It is 100% on me.

 

 

Had I "met her needs". She may not have had an affair.

 

 

Had she not had an affair, I would have never had a RA.

 

 

In both cases, there were better courses of action than choosing to have an affair.

 

 

She was a broken person and chose to have an affair. I was a broken person and chose to have an affair.

 

 

When she chose to have an affair, I thought we were happy. When I chose to have a RA, she thought we were happy. Sometimes you do not know where your partners head is and that is scary because you never know if you can trust your feelings.

 

 

We are very fortunate that we have been able to work it out and move forward with our marriage.

 

 

As my wife said, you never forget. We are both on here and can calmly and analytically discuss our situation. Unfortunately, I admit, I still sometimes feel sorry for myself. When I feel that way, I sometimes discuss details of things said that can bring back bad memories. It is good we can discuss things, but, I guess like any sad thing in the past it can make you feel a bit melancholy.

 

 

I love my wife more than ever and that love grow every day.

 

 

Recovering from an affair is at best a long process. I am often skeptical when I read of fast healing. It is really a life long process.

[wmacbride]

I think sometimes the key is timing.

 

I think that in Liam's case, they probably both ended up bleeding. Liam bled from 10,000 cuts over time. His wife was bleeding from a massive, acute hemorrhage.

 

It is true that continued cutting by his wife would hurt Liam. But, in terms of triage, it WAS the massive hemorrhage that needed attention first.

 

That is why I say that while marital issues do need to be addressed, a wise and truly repentant and personally accountable WS will not jump on the "fix the BS" bandwagon for the first 6 months to a year.

 

I think this is what most of us have been saying.

Yes, issues in the marriage need to be addressed, but before that, the A needs to be addressed.

[wmacbride]

My wife had an affair. It is 100% on her. I take no responsibility.

 

 

I had a RA. It is 100% on me.

 

 

Had I "met her needs". She may not have had an affair.

 

 

Had she not had an affair, I would have never had a RA.

 

 

In both cases, there were better courses of action than choosing to have an affair.

 

 

She was a broken person and chose to have an affair. I was a broken person and chose to have an affair.

 

 

When she chose to have an affair, I thought we were happy. When I chose to have a RA, she thought we were happy. Sometimes you do not know where your partners head is and that is scary because you never know if you can trust your feelings.

 

 

We are very fortunate that we have been able to work it out and move forward with our marriage.

 

 

As my wife said, you never forget. We are both on here and can calmly and analytically discuss our situation. Unfortunately, I admit, I still sometimes feel sorry for myself. When I feel that way, I sometimes discuss details of things said that can bring back bad memories. It is good we can discuss things, but, I guess like any sad thing in the past it can make you feel a bit melancholy.

 

 

I love my wife more than ever and that love grow every day.

 

 

Recovering from an affair is at best a long process. I am often skeptical when I read of fast healing. It is really a life long process.

 

Agreed, it's been many years since my H's A, and the healing process marches on.

 

I suppose though, when you think about it, a M takes a lifetime to build. Kind of like an eternal mosaic- it is a process that never ends, and every hardship and every wonderful thing you go through together, every memory, adds another piece to the overall picture.

[mcjordan]

Facing our own bad choices and taking ownership of them is a HUGE blow to pride. Some people are not able to handle that. It goes against their tendency to be right. I'm not being mean, I'm just stating what I have observed. If you look at a WS who wants to rush through the pain THEY caused or fixate on something other than their own responsibility, they are typically someone who has had trouble being wrong and admitting wrong without qualification in most other areas of their life as well.

 

Sometimes when someone has an A, the rose colored glasses we had on about some of their personality traits come off as well, because their A and the way they deal with it brings those into sharp relief.

[Liam1]

"...acting like a little kid who knocks over the cookie jar and then blames the cookie jar for breaking itself-there was also a lot of eye rolling on his part. "

 

Well a cookie jar tends not to have free-will or a moral sense. Are you really an inanimate object? Human being are blessed with freewill so they can make choices. You chose to have an affair. Your wife chose to be asexual within our marriage. Both choices that had an impact on your relationship. But unless you are a cookie jar you were not compelled to have an affair because of your wife's actions. You CHOSE that course of action in response, out of many other courses of action you could have chosen.

 

The lack of sex is an issue that needs addressing at some point - if remorse on your part is shown and reconciliation proceeds well that will be part and parcel of recovery. But it can't come first. There are also valid grounds for investigating WHY she didn't want to have sex - few women stop wanting sex just to piss off their husbands, there is always an underlying reason and that is important too.

 

The quote about the cookie Jar was a quote from a BS, not me.

 

I was simply reflecting her own words back to her.

 

As for why women stop having sex, there are a multitude of reasons. Sometimes it can be blamed on the spouse, sometimes not.

 

I don't owe you any explanation. Talk to your own husband if you have lost interest in sex because of something he is or is not doing.

 

I think your logic sounds like a projection. Something rooted in your own feelings based on your personal experience.

[Liam1]

Facing our own bad choices and taking ownership of them is a HUGE blow to pride. Some people are not able to handle that. It goes against their tendency to be right. I'm not being mean, I'm just stating what I have observed. If you look at a WS who wants to rush through the pain THEY caused or fixate on something other than their own responsibility, they are typically someone who has had trouble being wrong and admitting wrong without qualification in most other areas of their life as well.

 

 

Good point and well stated and it applies to anyone BS or WS who refuses to accept responsibility and take some blame because it is a blow to their pride or perhaps in The BS's case they feel they will lose their self-perceive moral high ground by continuing to only place blame outward.

[mcjordan]

Facing our own bad choices and taking ownership of them is a HUGE blow to pride. Some people are not able to handle that. It goes against their tendency to be right. I'm not being mean, I'm just stating what I have observed. If you look at a WS who wants to rush through the pain THEY caused or fixate on something other than their own responsibility, they are typically someone who has had trouble being wrong and admitting wrong without qualification in most other areas of their life as well.

 

Sometimes when someone has an A, the rose colored glasses we had on about some of their personality traits come off as well, because their A and the way they deal with it brings those into sharp relief.

 

I wanted to clarify this as intended for WS who want to rug sweep, NOT BS who aren't up for fixing their flaws within 90 days.

[Mrs. John Adams]

My wife had an affair. It is 100% on her. I take no responsibility.

 

 

I had a RA. It is 100% on me.

 

 

Had I "met her needs". She may not have had an affair.

 

 

Had she not had an affair, I would have never had a RA.

 

 

In both cases, there were better courses of action than choosing to have an affair.

 

 

She was a broken person and chose to have an affair. I was a broken person and chose to have an affair.

 

 

When she chose to have an affair, I thought we were happy. When I chose to have a RA, she thought we were happy. Sometimes you do not know where your partners head is and that is scary because you never know if you can trust your feelings.

 

 

We are very fortunate that we have been able to work it out and move forward with our marriage.

 

 

As my wife said, you never forget. We are both on here and can calmly and analytically discuss our situation. Unfortunately, I admit, I still sometimes feel sorry for myself. When I feel that way, I sometimes discuss details of things said that can bring back bad memories. It is good we can discuss things, but, I guess like any sad thing in the past it can make you feel a bit melancholy.

 

 

I love my wife more than ever and that love grow every day.

 

 

Recovering from an affair is at best a long process. I am often skeptical when I read of fast healing. It is really a life long process.

 

Perfectly stated. Thank you. And I agree with everything you said.

 

Ls is so helpful in so many ways... It has given us a wonderful line of communication .... And sometimes emotions come to the surface that reminds us of where we have been...and it hurts...

 

And sometimes we read things that are disturbing because it goes against everything we have learned through this journey. We have to remind ourselves that sometimes the best lessons are the ones we teach ourselves.

 

You tell your baby do not touch the hot stove... It will burn you

 

And sometimes the baby listens and sometimes he just has to touch the hot stove and get burned.

[Liam1]

 

 

Had I "met her needs". She may not have had an affair.

 

 

Had she not had an affair, I would have never had a RA.

 

 

.

 

Exactly. So why are we splitting hairs.

 

You and I both agree that the BS was doing something to cause the WS to have an affair.

 

Call it placing blame, accepting responsibility, whatever.

 

It all boils down to the same thing and that is: Unless there are mental or addiction issues as a causative factor, the one GLARING factor in a majority of affairs is that the spouse was not meeting the other spouses needs in some way.

[wmacbride]

Good point and well stated and it applies to anyone BS or WS who refuses to accept responsibility and take some blame because it is a blow to their pride or perhaps in The BS's case they feel they will lose their self-perceive moral high ground by continuing to only place blame outward.

 

 

 

Do you know how much I would have liked to be able say " I did this this, my h's A was partly my fault"?

 

When you are a bs, your whole life has been turned upside down and spun out of control. The notion that my h's A was due to something i did would have been fantastic because if it was, I could have changed those behaviors and everything would have been a-okay.

 

A ws saying ' I would never have cheated but for the actions and choices of my bs" is pretty disingenuous. What happens the next time said bs makes a mistake? Will the ws use that as another reason to cheat?

[Liam1]

I wanted to clarify this as intended for WS who want to rug sweep, NOT BS who aren't up for fixing their flaws within 90 days.

 

Yes, Mcjordan, it was perfectly clear that your comment was meant to slam the WS. I got that.

 

Nevertheless you said:

 

Facing our own bad choices and taking ownership of them is a HUGE blow to pride. Some people are not able to handle that. It goes against their tendency to be right.

 

Now, I think you need to ponder your statement from a more objective standpoint.

 

Your statement applies to both the BS and the WS, whether you want to admit it or not.

[wmacbride]

I wanted to clarify this as intended for WS who want to rug sweep, NOT BS who aren't up for fixing their flaws within 90 days.

 

That makes me think of those weight loss ads " 90- days or your money back"

[Liam1]

What happens the next time said bs makes a mistake? Will the ws use that as another reason to cheat?

 

Well, if the couple got the appropriate counseling, with a good infidelity counselor. Hopefully they will see their part in the marital dysfunction and BOTH will learn to communicate better.

[wmacbride]

Yes, Mcjordan, it was perfectly clear that your comment was meant to slam the WS. I got that.

 

Nevertheless you said:

 

 

 

Now, I think you need to ponder your statement from a more objective standpoint.

 

Your statement applies to both the BS and the WS, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

Okay, since you seem to be so stuck on blaming both the ws and bs, where does YOUR blame lie?

 

What should YOU have done differently?

[Liam1]

That makes me think of those weight loss ads " 90- days or your money back"

 

Yuck yuck.

 

wmacbride, I hope, you are not making silly wisecrack comments to your spouse who is attempting to reconcile, because, If so, you are NOT doing your part to make the reconciliation work.

 

You are being derisive, and condescending and disrespecful. No marriage can survive that in the long haul

[JohnAdams]

Perfectly stated. Thank you. And I agree with everything you said.

 

Ls is so helpful in so many ways... It has given us a wonderful line of communication .... And sometimes emotions come to the surface that reminds us of where we have been...and it hurts...

 

And sometimes we read things that are disturbing because it goes against everything we have learned through this journey. We have to remind ourselves that sometimes the best lessons are the ones we teach ourselves.

 

You tell your baby do not touch the hot stove... It will burn you

 

And sometimes the baby listens and sometimes he just has to touch the hot stove and get burned.

 

Exactly. So why are we splitting hairs.

 

You and I both agree that the BS was doing something to cause the WS to have an affair.

 

Call it placing blame, accepting responsibility, whatever.

 

It all boils down to the same thing and that is: Unless there are mental or addiction issues as a causative factor, the one GLARING factor in a majority of affairs is that the spouse was not meeting the other spouses needs in some way.

 

 

Ito all boils down to excuses and anyone that had an affair can come up with an excuse. So, no, I very much disagree.

[Liam1]

Okay, since you seem to be so stuck on blaming both the ws and bs, where does YOUR blame lie?

 

What should YOU have done differently?

 

That is none of your business. It's not pertinent to the larger issue of BOTH accepting blame. It's simply a nosy question.

 

So, since you like nosy questions, here's one for you: would you have preferred that your spouse simply one day came home and asked you for a divorce?

 

Also, If you are so willing to foist blame solely on your spouse, why in heaven's name do you stay married to him?

 

I mean you think you seem to want to browbeat your spouse into repentance and submission.

 

But that is not love.

 

BTW: The question is meant to be rhetorical. No response is needed.

[elaine567]

Facing our own bad choices and taking ownership of them is a HUGE blow to pride. Some people are not able to handle that. It goes against their tendency to be right. I'm not being mean, I'm just stating what I have observed. If you look at a WS who wants to rush through the pain THEY caused or fixate on something other than their own responsibility, they are typically someone who has had trouble being wrong and admitting wrong without qualification in most other areas of their life as well.

 

I think when the cheater, cheats due to their own issues ie *I* was bored, *I* needed excitement, *I* needed validation, *I* just needed sexual variety etc. then I can see that accepting responsibility may be easier for that WS. They have no-one really to blame but themselves.

 

However when the "reason" is something to do with the BS, ie no sex. abuse, neglect, "busy", disengaged etc. then I can see that even after acknowledging their part in the cheating episode, the "blame" may fall squarely back on the BS.

"I would never have cheated had she given me sex",

"I would never have cheated had he not hit me",

"I would never have cheated had I got the attention I deserved"

I can therefore see a WS getting entrenched in the belief that they were indeed "right" to cheat on some level.

[wmacbride]

Yuck yuck.

 

wmacbride, I hope, you are not making silly wisecrack comments to your spouse who is attempting to reconcile, because, If so, you are NOT doing your part to make the reconciliation work.

 

You are being derisive, and condescending and disrespecful. No marriage can survive that in the long haul

 

Liam,

 

my husband had an affair years ago.