The danger of rose colored glasses?

[heartwhole]

I'm glad the rose-colored glasses have been removed. I want to see myself, my life, and my husband clearly.

 

I think that if both spouses learn to see themselves clearly, then great progress can be made and a true reconciliation is possible. But I do agree it's the exception to the rule. I've read that only 30% of married couples stay together after infidelity (though I wonder if it's higher because some don't report it and some never discover it). Of those, surely many of them are unhappy and issues are never resolved. So what, maybe 1 in 4 out of that 30% will work on themselves and the marriage and come out closer than ever? So that's like 8%?

 

I can't force my husband to work on himself. I can only worry about me. I've learned a lot about myself and my weaknesses and need for growth in all of this. I need to be grateful for that aspect of it. Whether or not our R is successful, I know I am going forward as a healthier and happier person. And that's what matters, right? If I'm lucky enough that he's also doing the work to be a healthier and happier person, then we might just make it.

[thecharade]

1. I am never trying to "blame" anyone, especially not the BS.

2. I am trying to explain, explain that people are messed up. In lots of different ways.

3. Bad things happen. Bad things happen to everyone--good, bad, and in between. People do bad things and wrong things. It will always be that way, even when people try hard to do their best.

4. I have anger every single day at my exH for betraying our family and my future. I am pi$$ed off all the time. Who CANNOT change, if they want to badly enough? So, I guess he does not want to change his immature, disappointing ways. He betrayed me by leaving me all alone to figure things out during our most difficult times. I have a recurring dream that my H is fiddling with something, leaving the door wide open. A rapist is sneaking past him, a shiny knife in his hand. I am screaming and crying, "He is getting in! Stop him! Please, stop him!" And my H does not hear me, the man's warm hands circling my neck.. I wake sobbing, knowing that my exH will never protect me and I must move on.

5. Infidelity is one of many horrible things that life may throw at you. I have a friend dying of colon cancer. She is still fairly young with young children. A few years ago her H cheated. She would tell you that she would take that surmountable challenge over what she is dealing with now because her 2.5 year battle with stage 4 cancer has given her a different perspective. She is very angry at God for giving her this cancer, and angry because her treatments have been ineffective. She blames God.

 

I am simply trying to share perspective that life is very hard and people get hurt and people disappoint you and nothing and no one is perfect. There are no guarantees in life. Blame people for being weak or stupid or disappointing or a failure? Blame God for giving you problems or a hard life or a worse life than someone else? Ok. But in my mind, that just speaks to the people living in glass houses should not throw stones. When you point a finger, the other four are pointing back at you. Anger/blame is a necessary stage to move through, but it is not a healthy place to stay.

 

All we control is ourselves.

[thecharade]

I'm glad the rose-colored glasses have been removed. I want to see myself, my life, and my husband clearly.

 

I think that if both spouses learn to see themselves clearly, then great progress can be made and a true reconciliation is possible. But I do agree it's the exception to the rule. I've read that only 30% of married couples stay together after infidelity (though I wonder if it's higher because some don't report it and some never discover it). Of those, surely many of them are unhappy and issues are never resolved. So what, maybe 1 in 4 out of that 30% will work on themselves and the marriage and come out closer than ever? So that's like 8%?

 

I can't force my husband to work on himself. I can only worry about me. I've learned a lot about myself and my weaknesses and need for growth in all of this. I need to be grateful for that aspect of it. Whether or not our R is successful, I know I am going forward as a healthier and happier person. And that's what matters, right? If I'm lucky enough that he's also doing the work to be a healthier and happier person, then we might just make it.

 

What a great post. You have a very healthy outlook, imo.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Life deals out crappy circumstances and I agree charade... Yours truly sucked.

And it certainly contributed to your affair... I agree 100%

 

It still was the wrong choice.... And I don't hear you blame shifting. You own what you did and you are now divorcing. You are doing what is right for you.

 

Heart... You have a very healthy outlook and I agree that we can only FIX ourselves.. And in a relationship we can only trust that the other person... Fixes themselves.

 

In reconciliation you have two broken people trying to fix a broken marriage... And sometimes the destruction is just too much to fix.

 

Thankfully there are many people who succeed...

[thecharade]

Life deals out crappy circumstances and I agree charade... Yours truly sucked.

And it certainly contributed to your affair... I agree 100%

 

It still was the wrong choice.... And I don't hear you blame shifting. You own what you did and you are now divorcing. You are doing what is right for you.

 

Heart... You have a very healthy outlook and I agree that we can only FIX ourselves.. And in a relationship we can only trust that the other person... Fixes themselves.

 

In reconciliation you have two broken people trying to fix a broken marriage... And sometimes the destruction is just too much to fix.

 

Thankfully there are many people who succeed...

 

You are always very compassionate and wise, Mrs. JA. Thanks for all the posting you do here. You help many people with your thoughtful insights.

 

[merrmeade]

I know and agree with this kind of thinking (we can only fix ourselves, etc.), and it was important and liberating to get there. But once the rose-colored glasses are off, you have to decide how satisfying (or dissatisfying) your life with this other person is in other ways - this person who doesn't share your values about the importance of introspection and self-knowledge. You have to decide if you can live with the imbalance of your understanding of his limitations and vulnerabilities and his continued self-deception and denial.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I know and agree with this kind of thinking (we can only fix ourselves, etc.), and it was important and liberating to get there. But once the rose-colored glasses are off, you have to decide how satisfying (or dissatisfying) your life with this other person is in other ways - this person who doesn't share your values about the importance of introspection and self-knowledge. You have to decide if you can live with the imbalance of your understanding of his limitations and vulnerabilities and his continued self-deception and denial.

 

I absolutely agree...and that is why even many years into reconciliation...people still divorce. I think sometimes it takes years to process the destruction...it takes years to work through the devastation...it takes years to become strong enough to say...I am finished.

 

This is why i say it is a process that takes a lot of time. You cannot declare we are reconciled.....

 

We are reconciling...a lifelong work in progress.

[understand50]

I know and agree with this kind of thinking (we can only fix ourselves, etc.), and it was important and liberating to get there. But once the rose-colored glasses are off, you have to decide how satisfying (or dissatisfying) your life with this other person is in other ways - this person who doesn't share your values about the importance of introspection and self-knowledge. You have to decide if you can live with the imbalance of your understanding of his limitations and vulnerabilities and his continued self-deception and denial.

 

I absolutely agree...and that is why even many years into reconciliation...people still divorce. I think sometimes it takes years to process the destruction...it takes years to work through the devastation...it takes years to become strong enough to say...I am finished.

 

This is why i say it is a process that takes a lot of time. You cannot declare we are reconciled.....

 

We are reconciling...a lifelong work in progress.

 

First of all, I think marriage and relationship in general all require hard work. You can never let things slide. Infidelity adds a whole toxic layer to the mix. When we are first in love, she (He) can do not wrong. Long is blind, and afterwords, your spouse will get the benefit of the doubt. I think one of the first things both spouses must do in reconciling, is to see each other for what the really are, and decide if you can stay and work with them. This will be different for each couple. Things that would end the marriage, for the Addams' or merrmeade, I may accept, things they accepted, and I also may not have been able to.

 

But you love them, this makes the pain of their betrayal worse, but also makes you try and see anything, that may mitigate what they did. I think the real question of WHY this happened, and exploring how they broke their vows, is of vast importance in the ultimate reconciliation and see if it will "take". If one does not talk this out, I think the "rose glasses" are in place. I also think there can really be no true reconciliation, as not understanding the question, "How did you meet, and how did this lead to sex?" just leads to the WS, trying to hide things, and BS wondering what happened. This is not to let the cheater off the hook, but were both working on the marriage when this happened, and why not? Are you or them doing things, past infidelity that is harming the marriage? Will time heal, or just fester, the relationship?

 

In the end, you need to decide, if your feelings of love can overcome the real person standing in front of you. You need to look at them for what they really are, and decide. Hopefully, they are looking at you, and deciding as well if they will put in the hard work and stop what they are doing. The glasses fit both, just as well. Being all equal, both must understand that divorce, is more likely then not, a likely outcome. As I have stated, with many others, this all requires much hard work on each side to make things work out. There are no guarantees, no magic wand, just hard work, and the first thing to do is to see things as they truly are.

 

My two cents.

[ladydesigner]

But as a rule of thumb, in most cases, I believe D is the best answer for both spouses. This in answer to your question whether to prefer D or A - definitely D because infidelity messes with your brain on so many levels - your sense of up and down, true or false, reality or dream, fake or real - everything is in question.

 

I would of preferred D to the infidelity. The infidelity was not only abusive but earth shattering. My perspective has changed, I'm a little more jaded as well. I won't trust again and I'm not even close to being the person I was before the infidelity had occurred. Obviously I would have rather my WH addressed his own issues than use mine against me.

[thecharade]

In a perfect scenario the spouse would say they are unhappy and ask for a D. Then, since the other spouse now knows there are issues, work could begin and there would be a chance of saving things.

 

But, in the case of, "I have found a place to live, I am leaving you. I am sorry," from all I have read and seen, that is as earth shattering a betrayal as an A. The rejection is astronomical. A spouse just . . . walks out? No notice? No chance to work on things? Equally horrible, impacting your ability to ever trust again.

 

I will say that where I cannot understand at all--even a tiny bit--is betraying someone that you want to stay married to. All of that compartmentalizing and acting loving over here while stabbing them in the back over there. I cannot get my head around doing that, which is why I always say 'Affair or Divorce?' For me, that was the situation. But for many people, they were not choosing 'Affair or Divorce?' in their heads. They were . . . I don't know what. The only commonality that I can see in all the people I know who have done this is that they do not and have never seen themselves objectively and honestly. Where you say to them, "You always do this!" And they take offense instead of laughing. They hide from themselves all their lives--avoiding all honest conversations.

 

My ex AP was my exBF, so I have known him most of my life. I remember once teasing about his dad. His dad had a well-known drinking problem back in the day, never far from his glass after 4 pm. So, I made the joke and said, "Like your dad's drinking back then." And I just chuckled. He looked shocked and said, "I can't believe you just said that," and he quickly changed the subject. It was common knowledge, nothing to be ashamed of. Just a less-than-optimal truth, but he had clearly never admitted it, even to himself. There are people who intentionally turn their thoughts away from anything difficult or painful. Poof! Thoughts are gone! And they did this long before they were struggling with their self-esteem or identity or marriage, so when things did get rough, they had no--ZERO--ability to see it. Unfortunately, you cannot fix what you refuse to see. That is what these people (the ones who had no desire to divorce) had in common long before having As--a knack for not seeing what they did not want to see. It is a very dangerous and unhealthy quality. They couldn't tell their spouse anything was wrong because . . . they didn't know it themselves.

Edited March 22, 2016 by thecharade

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think often...each of us...knows something is wrong...but we cannot pinpoint it...and many times blame our spouse instead of ourselves.

 

In my case...our marriage was truly in an OK spot....not great...not bad....it was ME that was unhappy....with ME. I see that now...but I did not see that 33 years ago.

 

John knew something was wrong....and was very supportive ...and very encouraging for me to go back to school and "find myself". He knew i was feeling left behind....and insecure.

 

Neither of us ever imagined how this would end.

 

I never place any blame on him....it was my decision...my insecurity...my selfishness. I know that i could have told him my needs and wants and wishes...and he would have done everything in his power to get them for me.

But I never gave him the chance. ....Instead...I needed an excuse...a reason....to be angry with him...to give myself permission to cheat.

 

It is really that simple....not complicated at all. Which is why....I am very intolerant of those waywards...who still build a case to validate their choice to cheat.

 

There are ALWAYS other choices...none may be easy....they may involve medical help or psychological help, or religious help...or legal council.....they may take a long time to initiate....

 

but there is ALWAYS another choice .....

[waterwoman]

"In my case...our marriage was truly in an OK spot....not great...not bad....it was ME that was unhappy....with ME. I see that now...but I did not see that 33 years ago."

 

Same with me, Same with DH. The problems that lead to cheating come from within the cheater - regardless of the state of the marriage.

[understand50]

I think often...each of us...knows something is wrong...but we cannot pinpoint it...and many times blame our spouse instead of ourselves.

 

In my case...our marriage was truly in an OK spot....not great...not bad....it was ME that was unhappy....with ME. I see that now...but I did not see that 33 years ago.

 

John knew something was wrong....and was very supportive ...and very encouraging for me to go back to school and "find myself". He knew i was feeling left behind....and insecure.

 

Neither of us ever imagined how this would end.

 

I never place any blame on him....it was my decision...my insecurity...my selfishness. I know that i could have told him my needs and wants and wishes...and he would have done everything in his power to get them for me.

But I never gave him the chance. ....Instead...I needed an excuse...a reason....to be angry with him...to give myself permission to cheat.

 

It is really that simple....not complicated at all. Which is why....I am very intolerant of those waywards...who still build a case to validate their choice to cheat.

 

There are ALWAYS other choices...none may be easy....they may involve medical help or psychological help, or religious help...or legal council.....they may take a long time to initiate....

 

but there is ALWAYS another choice .....

 

That is the key, and something both need to come to terms with. There is, and was, a choice for the WS to cheat. You have to accept, that no only did they consciously did this, (Note: Anything else, is rape by legal definition, and therefor not infidelity) that during the act, it was enjoyable. I would give a little slack to the WS who got drunk, and went too far, but then why were they even in the situation where this could happen?

 

I think for reconciliation to happen, there must be no "rose colored glasses" when it comes to the WS deciding to cheat. There must be no rewriting of marriage history. The "why" must and needs to explored, and a good idea of what and how everything happened.

 

Communication, it is what everyone looks for and states is the most important skill in a marriage. Open, honest communication, it is the one of the many things that makes relationship hard. I think, and maybe Mr. and Mrs, Adam could confirm, that until they really learned to talk about what happened, and John could express, and Abigail hear, all the pain hurt, their reconciliation, while mostly successful, became complete. It was so for my wife and I. We have issues to work on, but at least we can talk about them, with out hurting each other.

 

My two cents.

[66Charger]

Choice.

 

Choice is the reason that there can be a "perfectly reformed cheater". When the scales are tilted so far in one direction, choices become crystal clear. As in example, a lifetime smoker/obese will puff/eat unhealthy, happily everyday, knowing overindulgence kills, but feeling it wont happen to them. Then they end up it the hospital, and the doctor looks them in the eye and tells them they will die soon if they continue this behavior. (Divorce papers) Most will look in the mirror and realize that life, with all its imperfections, is much more valuable than a horrible death. They must WANT life, with every fiber of their being.

 

This is the main reason why a confession and consequences are essential. Without the confession, by the time you hit the hospital (get busted) it may be too late. The "doctors" that say, dont say anything, take the risk, live the lie and go to your grave carrying the truth, are advising others to commit marital/relationship suicide...slowly...then accelerated to light speed when you trip and fall and land up in the doctors (lawyers) office. Eyes dazzled, begging and praying for second chance.

 

That relaxing cigarette becomes exactly what it is.

 

Poison.

 

So, yes, one can be truly reformed when faced with dire consequences and/or death.

[JohnAdams]

Communication, it is what everyone looks for and states is the most important skill in a marriage. Open, honest communication, it is the one of the many things that makes relationship hard. I think, and maybe Mr. and Mrs, Adam could confirm, that until they really learned to talk about what happened, and John could express, and Abigail hear, all the pain hurt, their reconciliation, while mostly successful, became complete. It was so for my wife and I. We have issues to work on, but at least we can talk about them, with out hurting each other.

 

Very true. You have to reach a point that you can discuss what happened without the BS becoming accusatory and without the ws thinking they are just being punished. When you reach this point, you can be pretty confident that the ws understands remorse and true healing can happen.

 

 

In our case, it took years to reach this point. As understand said, we were mostly successful in our marriage and reconciliation, but, something was still lacking. From reading these types of forums over the years, I think many marriages do stall short of ever reaching true remorse. Many settle because they do not know how to clear that last hurdle.

 

 

I am not the type of person who can just bury or compartmentalize bad things in my life. On the other hand, my wife has always seemed to have the ability to just bury things. So, if I had just accepted what had happened and not let it eat me alive. We probably could have moved on fine with no problems. I certainly think there are couples out there that can to this very thing.

 

 

It took us years to get to this place. I do not think there are any shortcuts. However, with both parties in the couple working this, I think it can be done quicker than us. But, even then, I think it is a 2-5 year process.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Understand50...

 

While John and I were happy... And we discussed things about the affair... There were still things we just could not discuss without becoming emotional instead of factual. He would become angry and I just could not understand why after so much time he was still angry. So tit for tat.. He would sound accusatory/ I would become defensive.

 

We learned to cope by avoiding those issues.

 

I watch others here on Loveshack come here and declare healing and remorse after a few months and i look back and I think... Wow we were barely functioning and still certainly hurting and searching.

 

There is no quick fix... I don't care if you do it perfectly by the book. There are too many things to sort through... Individually and then collectively.

 

If you have a wayward that declares remorse... My initial reaction is uh... Nope. Sorry ? Yes for a variety of things.. But remorse? No

 

Take off the glasses... Because your journey has just begun.

 

I was always sorry.. It took me thirty years to understand true remorse. It took me thirty years to understand fully what I had done...

 

Reconciliation is an emotional roller coaster... And just when you think the ride is over... You come to a curve or a hill.

[merrmeade]

Choice.

 

Choice is the reason that there can be a "perfectly reformed cheater". When the scales are tilted so far in one direction, choices become crystal clear. As in example, a lifetime smoker/obese will puff/eat unhealthy, happily everyday, knowing overindulgence kills, but feeling it wont happen to them. Then they end up it the hospital, and the doctor looks them in the eye and tells them they will die soon if they continue this behavior. (Divorce papers) Most will look in the mirror and realize that life, with all its imperfections, is much more valuable than a horrible death. They must WANT life, with every fiber of their being.

 

This is the main reason why a confession and consequences are essential. Without the confession, by the time you hit the hospital (get busted) it may be too late. The "doctors" that say, dont say anything, take the risk, live the lie and go to your grave carrying the truth, are advising others to commit marital/relationship suicide...slowly...then accelerated to light speed when you trip and fall and land up in the doctors (lawyers) office. Eyes dazzled, begging and praying for second chance.

 

That relaxing cigarette becomes exactly what it is.

 

Poison.

 

So, yes, one can be truly reformed when faced with dire consequences and/or death.

Really powerful analogy if you don't get too literal with it. Took me a minute because in paragraph 1 the doctor seems to be the BS, delivering the terminal diagnosis. But I did a double-take in para 2 at "The 'doctors' that say, dont say anything, take the risk,..(etc.)." Anyway, I think the point is that a cheater needs "dire consequences" to change. Without the reality of an imminent divorce, a wayward does not see or feel the consequence of past choices until it is too late and the marriage has been destroyed (poisoned).

 

However, I do not think this analogy fully illustrates the importance of confession or why the cheater would want to confess. I felt this with my WH but didn't connect the dots at the time. Only when I made real moves to separate (one measly night spent away from the house), did he show inclination to (almost) confess. However, I caved and he no longer had a reason. I wonder sometimes if that was the beginning of the end...

[merrmeade]

Understand50...

 

While John and I were happy... And we discussed things about the affair... There were still things we just could not discuss without becoming emotional instead of factual. He would become angry and I just could not understand why after so much time he was still angry. So tit for tat.. He would sound accusatory/ I would become defensive.

 

We learned to cope by avoiding those issues.

 

I watch others here on Loveshack come here and declare healing and remorse after a few months and i look back and I think... Wow we were barely functioning and still certainly hurting and searching.

 

There is no quick fix... I don't care if you do it perfectly by the book. There are too many things to sort through... Individually and then collectively.

 

If you have a wayward that declares remorse... My initial reaction is uh... Nope. Sorry ? Yes for a variety of things.. But remorse? No

 

Take off the glasses... Because your journey has just begun.

 

I was always sorry.. It took me thirty years to understand true remorse. It took me thirty years to understand fully what I had done...

 

Reconciliation is an emotional roller coaster... And just when you think the ride is over... You come to a curve or a hill.

This is great, Mrs JA. Just great. Clear, deep understanding of your experience and others'. It takes this level of empathy to do what you've done in your own life and then be able to help others.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Meremeade..

 

I have searched to the depth of my soul. It is difficult to explain what I have discovered. But I can tell you...Understanding true empathy is difficult

 

Because you have to die to self...In order to feel someone's pain you have to remove your own...This is not about my pain

This is about the pain I am responsible for Causing

 

Yes I hurt

But I hurt because of remorse for what I caused. And this is very different than being sorry for what I did.

 

There is no room in my heart for excuses or blame.. I am solely responsible for my choice to cheat.

 

Your husband is soley responsible for his choice to cheat and I pray one day he will take your pain inside of himself and see the devastation it caused.

 

We have to see it in our own soul. Not our pain... Our betrayeds pain. And it is very difficult to do.

 

I read here that waywards will never know the destruction or pain they have caused. I would agree most won't. Because we are selfish people.. So even the concept of placing yourself inside someone else's pain is difficult to understand.

 

But when it happens... There is a change... I am a changed person. I know I could never harm another person the way I hurt my husband. I would truly die first.

 

I so wish I could explain it better.. But when I say remorse is an action.. This is what I am talking about. It is actively seeking to experience within your soul the same pain you caused.... And sacrificing your own pain..To heal the pain of another.

 

Loving unselfishly.... Totally and completely

[ladydesigner]

Meremeade..

 

I have searched to the depth of my soul. It is difficult to explain what I have discovered. But I can tell you...Understanding true empathy is difficult

 

Because you have to die to self...In order to feel someone's pain you have to remove your own...This is not about my pain

This is about the pain I am responsible for Causing

 

Yes I hurt

But I hurt because of remorse for what I caused. And this is very different than being sorry for what I did.

 

There is no room in my heart for excuses or blame.. I am solely responsible for my choice to cheat.

 

Your husband is soley responsible for his choice to cheat and I pray one day he will take your pain inside of himself and see the devastation it caused.

 

We have to see it in our own soul. Not our pain... Our betrayeds pain. And it is very difficult to do.

 

I read here that waywards will never know the destruction or pain they have caused. I would agree most won't. Because we are selfish people.. So even the concept of placing yourself inside someone else's pain is difficult to understand.

 

But when it happens... There is a change... I am a changed person. I know I could never harm another person the way I hurt my husband. I would truly die first.

 

I so wish I could explain it better.. But when I say remorse is an action.. This is what I am talking about. It is actively seeking to experience within your soul the same pain you caused.... And sacrificing your own pain..To heal the pain of another.

 

Loving unselfishly.... Totally and completely

 

Mrs. John Adams you are a remarkable woman with such insight. You are one of the few remorseful WS's. I read so much selfishness and entitlement from WS's that it just makes me sick to my stomach. You are a beacon of light and hope.

[Mrs. John Adams]

If i could I would make a magic potion to give to waywards to give them instantaneous remorse.

 

It took me so very long....I am so lucky my john gave me time...what a gift.

[merrmeade]

Meremeade..

 

I have searched to the depth of my soul. It is difficult to explain what I have discovered. But I can tell you...Understanding true empathy is difficult

 

Because you have to die to self...In order to feel someone's pain you have to remove your own...This is not about my pain

This is about the pain I am responsible for Causing

 

Yes I hurt

But I hurt because of remorse for what I caused. And this is very different than being sorry for what I did.

 

There is no room in my heart for excuses or blame.. I am solely responsible for my choice to cheat.

 

Your husband is soley responsible for his choice to cheat and I pray one day he will take your pain inside of himself and see the devastation it caused.

 

We have to see it in our own soul. Not our pain... Our betrayeds pain. And it is very difficult to do.

 

I read here that waywards will never know the destruction or pain they have caused. I would agree most won't. Because we are selfish people.. So even the concept of placing yourself inside someone else's pain is difficult to understand.

 

But when it happens... There is a change... I am a changed person. I know I could never harm another person the way I hurt my husband. I would truly die first.

 

I so wish I could explain it better.. But when I say remorse is an action.. This is what I am talking about. It is actively seeking to experience within your soul the same pain you caused.... And sacrificing your own pain..To heal the pain of another.

 

Loving unselfishly.... Totally and completely

Yes, your pursuit of unselfish love, purity and truth is both humbling and inspiring to observers. I think that what a truly remorseful WS such as yourself does for everyone is to model the power of redemption. It's hard to stay cynical in the face of such determination to do right. It gives us permission to love the simple truths of our youth again, such as:

Purity and goodness are attainable.

By understanding justice and right, we can make just, right decisions.

Trust and hope in a better future make it easier to realize.

 

For myself, I am pretty hopeless these days most of the time and not sure any example of human goodness can fix that. That's why I'm glad to know what you've accomplished is possible.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess my point to all of my ramblings is this....if there is love....there is hope. Accept what you have if it is enough....and keep hoping for more....keep working toward the goal....and at the end of the day...even if the relationship ends...you know you personally gave it your all.

 

We cannot make someone else achieve our goals....we can only work with them and encourage them to do more.

[minimariah]

My ex AP was my exBF, so I have known him most of my life. I remember once teasing about his dad. His dad had a well-known drinking problem back in the day, never far from his glass after 4 pm. So, I made the joke and said, "Like your dad's drinking back then." And I just chuckled. He looked shocked and said, "I can't believe you just said that," and he quickly changed the subject. It was common knowledge, nothing to be ashamed of. Just a less-than-optimal truth, but he had clearly never admitted it, even to himself.

 

i'll comment on this because i had a similar thing said to me by a friend on a similar matter --- it's not about NOT knowing and refusing to know. your comment was insensitive & i think that was what took him by surprise; even when it is common knowledge, you don't expect folks to make fun of that fact IN FRONT of you.