Men and Emotional Vulnerability

[Robert Z]

You don't try to turn him into your girlfriend.

 

 

And a lot of us men want women who embrace their femininity, not man-buddies with boobs. A lot of people may not realize this but feminists from the 70s basically shamed those showing femininity, just like they were shamed for wanting to be stay-at-home moms.

 

 

I couldn't help but notice that while women often talk of being strong and independent, and many pride themselves on "not needing a man" today more women admit that they still want a man to be a rock.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Robert Z

[SammySammy]

And a lot of us men want women who embrace their femininity, not man-buddies with boobs. A lot of people may not realize this but feminists from the 70s basically shamed those showing femininity, just like they were shamed for wanting to be stay-at-home moms.

 

I couldn't help but notice that while women often talk of being strong and independent, and many pride themselves on "not needing a man" today more women admit that they still want a man to be a rock.

 

Still do.

 

I just read a story today about feminists shaming Beyonce because she openly enjoys being a mother. Calling her Feminist Lite and such.

[JuanDelToro]

The only reason it appears women have as much "balls" as men is because men have been emasculated and are effeminate.

 

All of this whining, crying, weeping and getting "depressed" over setbacks in life is bad. Bad for men. Bad for women. Bad for families. Bad for society in general.

 

Masculinity and femininity are not the same thing. They should not be the same thing. While they are both equally valuable, we cannot say there is no longer any need for a distinction between masculinity and femininity.

 

Yin and yang, they work together. They compliment each other. They need each other to make a successful whole.

 

Even in homosexual relationships - male and female - one usually plays a masculine role while the other is feminine.

 

This sensitive man movement has been going on in America for several decades. I think it is one of the reasons the American divorce rate is approaching 60%. Because, though women say they want a sensitive man, instinctively they don't. That's why we have men on here crying about being a nice guy and the woman he wanted chose a jerk. Women are not out there looking for jerks. They want a MAN. They want a man to be a man without her having to tell him what that is. The closest thing they are finding out there are jerks.

 

And, for most women, they don't think a woman who claims to have "balls" is the same as a man. They are not interchangeable. NOT the same thing.

 

I completely agree with what you`re saying, although we have to be careful not to spread the wrong message that a masculine man should exhibit the traits of a Neanderthal.

 

It is increasingly more noticeable all around, that men who, after a rude awakening, are working towards getting their man power back, are seriously getting confused, with many misinterpreting masculinity for emotional sterility and misogyny (among other things).

[todreaminblue]

i think that its good to have a balance of emotional vulnerability and emotional strength for a man...to be strong where he needs to be strong and be vulnerable when he feels vulnerable..i think its good for a man to have someone he trusts enough to be vulnerable with...to open up to....the difference between the sexes should be evident though.....we are meant to be different like gloria25 suggested we are meant to support each other through our differences and perspectives.....we add depth that way to a marriage or relationship

 

creating effeminate men or adapting or telling men to be more...female.and more emotive.....and women to be more....male and non emotional... to me is a downfall to society...its surely backwards thinking.....when balance in any relationship is all that is needed...deb

[thefooloftheyear]

As resolute as I like to think I am, I can't hear that "Butterfly Kisses" song in the presence of others....It's just more than I can handle...My image would be completely shattered....

 

*Yes, I am a devoted dad to a wonderful young lady...*

 

TFY

[carhill]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm interested in hearing guys' perspective on this especially.

 

Older guy checking in.

 

Do you think that the emerging culture of men being more emotionally open is good or bad?

I tend to see it as a mixed bag, and a process which is occurring in fits and starts as both men and society seek a fit which works for both.

 

I got into an argument with someone online about this. Their position was that men expressing doubt or fear or worry is a sign of weakness and is why men aren't as ambitious and dependable overall as they were in earlier generations.

IDK, interacting with young men I see similar disparities, because men are individuals, and no positive correlation between being emotionally open, expressing worry or doubt and ambition and dependability. Perhaps that correlation/causation thing may be in play.

 

I think that allowing men to talk openly about their emotional experiences and not be thought less of for it, allows them to feel more loved and appreciated, which is good for people in general. And when you feel appreciated you do more anyway. There are plenty of men in this generation that have done great things and express gratitude for the emotional support of their partner.

 

Thoughts?

I personally feel it's healthier to embrace one's totality, being open and directing thoughts and emotions into a milieu which works them and addresses them rather than suppressing either and directing into unhealthy milieus and pursuits.

 

I presume you're addressing primarily romantic interactions and love and respect from a romantic partner being predicated, in part or in total, on a man's emotional style being compatible. To me, that's individual. However, if a preponderance of individuals choose a particular emotional style in a man to love and respect, then that style becomes dominant and other styles become outlier.

 

If society deems a certain style to be 'good', then they have labeled it and people who feel inured to society's labels and the attendant societal and peer pressure tend to choose paths with match up.

 

It was decidedly un-manly and weak to be emotionally vulnerable and express doubt and fear when I was young and physical violence was often the result so, in a way, such natural tendencies were, in the literal sense, beaten out of me. Not really out, but down, suppressed. However, as all things seek balance, an odd occurrence I've noted of late is, now that my male peers, meaning men of my age and social circle, are becoming more emotionally expressive and not beating each other down for being so, I've come to not really care. I've lost respect for them, and society, for past shunning and beating and, well, screw them.

 

As things evolve and more young men seek their own paths, some openly emotional and some not, and society's mores and rules evolve, perhaps men who express the realm of emotions they feel will become more accepted and valued. Perhaps not. My version is I'll live my life to suit me from now on and endeavor to make it as long as possible by living as healthy as possible, including emotional health. I hope the young men make choices which respect their belief systems and styles of living and do similar.

Edited March 18, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Raina314]

I just want to say that I'm really happy to see this thread and all the insightful discussion in it. Where I live and among my friends, it's almost taboo to suggest that men and women are at all different and it really stifles a lot of my male friends and gets in the way of men and women understanding each other. I find it really sad that people care so much about propagating that myth that it prevents both men and women from wanting to dig deeper to and try to learn from each other.

 

If everyone made as much of an effort to understand and work with these differences like they do on here instead of just demanding that gender be erased and we all act the same, the world would be a much, much better place.

 

 

I'm happy that I can come here and ask questions about guys and their perspective on emotions and love and life and not immediately be burnt at the stake.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Raina314

[katiegrl]

I think this emerging culture of emotional men is great... however, somewhere along the line, instead of simply expressing vulnerability, which again I think is great and I welcome that.... from what I have witnessed, some (not all) men have lost their ability to stand up for themselves and turned into whiny, needy, overly-emotional basket cases who allow women to control and dominate them!

 

I mean what happened? Is it because so many men are now being raised by single moms, and they have no father figure in the home?

 

I can't figure it out.... but I see it A LOT, even on this board, and it truly baffles me.

 

Men who allow their girlfriends to control them (literally) and treat them like utter crap.... without saying a word, without standing up for themselves.... without telling them to KNOCK IT OFF.

 

That said, with respect to emotionally healthy men being able to express themselves and their vulnerabilities (including weaknesses) in a calm rational drama-free way.... while at the same time remaining that strong rock to lean on and count on.... is to me, the epitome of what being a man is.

 

Knowing when to be strong, but also feeling comfortable with expressing emotion and vulnerability when necessary and warranted.

[Woggle]

I think this emerging culture of emotional men is great... however, somewhere along the line, instead of simply expressing vulnerability, which again I think is great and I welcome that.... from what I have witnessed, some (not all) men have lost their ability to stand up for themselves and turned into whiny, needy, overly-emotional basket cases who allow women to control and dominate them!

 

I mean what happened? Is it because so many men are now being raised by single moms, and they have no father figure in the home?

 

I can't figure it out.... but I see it A LOT, even on this board, and it truly baffles me.

 

Men who allow their girlfriends to control them (literally) and treat them like utter crap.... without saying a word, without standing up for themselves.... without telling them to KNOCK IT OFF.

 

That said, with respect to emotionally healthy men being able to express themselves and their vulnerabilities (including weaknesses) in a calm rational drama-free way.... while at the same time remaining that strong rock to lean on and count on.... is to me, the epitome of what being a man is.

 

Knowing when to be strong, but also feeling comfortable with expressing emotion and vulnerability when necessary and warranted.

 

Part of it is lack of father figures and another part of it is that they think if they just say yes dear to anything a woman says then they won't be called sexist or misogynist. They think if they are nice and soft enough then they will be seen as one the good ones and not chewed out but ironically it is the men with self respect who also get respect from women. Even feminists as much as they want to deny it for the most part are drawn to men who have a spine.

[katiegrl]

Part of it is lack of father figures and another part of it is that they think if they just say yes dear to anything a woman says then they won't be called sexist or misogynist. They think if they are nice and soft enough then they will be seen as one the good ones and not chewed out but ironically it is the men with self respect who also get respect from women. Even feminists as much as they want to deny it for the most part are drawn to men who have a spine.

 

Ironically they DO get chewed out though. More so than if they were to stand up for themselves and be strong!

 

I read this one thread yesterday from a guy whose girlfriend was constantly chewing him out .... finding fault with literally everything he did, including have the GALL to fall asleep before her preferred bedtime of 1:00 am in the morning!

 

That was just one example.

 

Another male poster posted about how his girlfriend chewed him out for wanting to take out the trash before heading to a party....

 

They just take it, however to the second guy's credit, he eventually left (or maybe she left, can't remember). He learned though... and vowed to never allow that to happen again. Good for him!

 

I dunno what's happened Woggle. I am sure it's more to do with the lack of father figure in the home.... with the divorce rate so high and/or women who choose on their own to become mothers (no husband or father for her child).

 

Yes of course women want (and need) a man to be strong, to stand up for himself, to have a spine, a backbone.

 

That's how he earns her respect.

 

And chances are if she respected him, she wouldn't need to control him and dominate him, chew him out, treat him like crap.

 

She probably feels lost, because HE isn't doing anything.

 

So feels she needs to take control and loses respect for him in the process.

 

I wish more men could learn this.... because witnessing this has become very disheartening.

Edited April 29, 2016 by katiegrl

[Woggle]

At the end of the day though this is what a good number of women wanted or at least claimed to want. I don't know if you watch Family Guy but there is this episode where Peter went away to a woman's retreat and ends up becoming one of these ultra sensitive men. At first Lois really likes it but more and more she wants the old Peter back. I feel this is a good example of what has happened to a lot of relationships in real life. Be careful what you wish for.

[katiegrl]

At the end of the day though this is what a good number of women wanted or at least claimed to want. I don't know if you watch Family Guy but there is this episode where Peter went away to a woman's retreat and ends up becoming one of these ultra sensitive men. At first Lois really likes it but more and more she wants the old Peter back. I feel this is a good example of what has happened to a lot of relationships in real life. Be careful what you wish for.

 

No I never watched it... but I should check it out!

 

And yeah from what you wrote... it makes a good point about how women claim they want their man to be sensitive and yielding.... but then when he does, she wants her old man back and/or starts to lose respect.

 

Must be very confusing for guys.... but maybe the answer is just be true to YOURSELF first .... and not try to conform to what anyone else wants you to be (including women).

 

I do get the feeling many men walk on eggshells with women, not quite knowing how to behave. They have it in them to be strong, with a backbone... but have become fearful.

 

So perhaps you are right after all Woggle.... part lack of father figure, and part wanting to please women and their ever-changing needs and requirements.

 

Thank you so much Woggle. This has been troubling me ... and talking it out helped a lot! Gave me more clarity and understanding.

Edited April 29, 2016 by katiegrl

[Gloria25]

Part of it is lack of father figures and another part of it is that they think if they just say yes dear to anything a woman says then they won't be called sexist or misogynist. They think if they are nice and soft enough then they will be seen as one the good ones and not chewed out but ironically it is the men with self respect who also get respect from women. Even feminists as much as they want to deny it for the most part are drawn to men who have a spine.

 

Also, men who have weak fathers and overbearing mothers. My neighbor is a prime example. His dad and him let his mother run the show and now she's all involved with his kid (her grandson). Three generations of weak men. Hence, why his wife is able to move in her dad to be the "man" in their marriage and why he's scared of real women like me. Mum raised him to be an insecure wimp.

 

That's why I feel sorry for him (and other guys like him). I sincerely feel sorry for him and my vagina is so dry for him, cuz unlike his wife - who wants someone she can manipulate and control (cuz no real man would really date/marry the likes of her) - I want and respect a strong man...not a wimp.

[Woggle]

I agree that being yourself is the best answer. I am who I am and people can take it or leave it and that mentality has served me well in life. Those who try and mistreat or abuse get cut out of my life in an instant and those who treat me right stay around. The key for men is to find a woman who's actions match her words. If you want a more traditional woman find a woman who fully embraces that and if you want an equal, 50/50 kind of relationship find a woman who fully embraces that. Dating a confused cafeteria feminist is the worst choice a man can make.

 

I you want to check out that episode it is I am Pete hear me roar. Tell that doesn't describe what happened to modern relationships.

[Gloria25]

I agree that being yourself is the best answer. I am who I am and people can take it or leave it and that mentality has served me well in life. Those who try and mistreat or abuse get cut out of my life in an instant and those who treat me right stay around. The key for men is to find a woman who's actions match her words. If you want a more traditional woman find a woman who fully embraces that and if you want an equal, 50/50 kind of relationship find a woman who fully embraces that. Dating a confused cafeteria feminist is the worst choice a man can make.

 

I you want to check out that episode it is I am Pete hear me roar. Tell that doesn't describe what happened to modern relationships.

 

But, unfortunately, the 'confused cafeteria feminist' is what guys have to chose from today. Worst, since they're raised in this culture/generation, they don't appreciate a traditional woman. They find a traditional woman "smothering". Also, a traditional woman would require them to be a "man" and a lot of them are content with having their "modern" wives pay half /all of their bills.

[Woggle]

But, unfortunately, the 'confused cafeteria feminist' is what guys have to chose from today. Worst, since they're raised in this culture/generation, they don't appreciate a traditional woman. They find a traditional woman "smothering". Also, a traditional woman would require them to be a "man" and a lot of them are content with having their "modern" wives pay half /all of their bills.

 

I actually don't want a traditional woman. I like the fact that I have an equal partnership but my wife actually walks the walk on that. A partnership is supposed to be people on the same side and in a romantic sense it is supposed to have deep element of friendship to it. You aren't supposed to chew out your friends or train them like dogs so why would any self respecting man want that in a woman?

[Gloria25]

I actually don't want a traditional woman. I like the fact that I have an equal partnership but my wife actually walks the walk on that. A partnership is supposed to be people on the same side and in a romantic sense it is supposed to have deep element of friendship to it. You aren't supposed to chew out your friends or train them like dogs so why would any self respecting man want that in a woman?

 

I don't get your point. Last time I looked, your "modern day woman" more likely to chew you out and/or treat you like their "pet".

[GravityMan]

Most decent and emotionally healthy/stable guys are rocks with a soft and vulnerable side to them. Hard and soft aren't mutually exclusive; they can easily and happily coexist within a person. They show their vulnerable side at appropriate times and around the right people, and they have balls of steel at other appropriate times. They also pay attention to HOW they express emotional vulnerability, and they will quickly get over it and do what needs to be done. Regardless of how he feels, there's a world out there that keeps turning. He has a significant other that has important desires, wants and needs. He has a job that needs attending to, as well as friends, family, financial stuff, property upkeep, hobbies and so on. It's about knowing time and place, it's about understanding the dynamic situation (including his GF/wife's feelings and vibe) it's about balance and it's about self-control.

 

A guy who is too much "hard" and never expresses his feelings is likely a WEAK man deep down. He likely harbors some deep and troubling insecurities and would feel afraid and ashamed if they came to light. I'd be careful around such guys...as they have a tendency to bottle things up until they come out in an explosive flourish of frustration, anger or anguish...and end up harming others (as well as themselves) when that happens. They also have a tendency to be passive-aggressive.

 

A huge part of what makes a guy (or woman) interesting and likable to others is how he expresses himself emotionally. Most interesting people are expressive and comfortable with that, plus that is a sign of strength. Robots generally don't make for pleasant and engaging company...they're often boring.

 

A guy who is too much of a softy and is overly whiny and hypersensitive is also a weak and immature person...not to mention often annoying. They'd rather moan and groan...rather than suck it up and solve the problem. They get "offended" too easily. They tend to freeze and panic in dire situations rather than take action. Such guys generally don't command respect from women OR men...in personal and professional spheres. You probably can't count on them to do (or say) what is needed to make others feel safe and comfortable. You probably can't count on them to make the right joke or cook the right dinner or whatever at the right time to brighten up his girlfriend's mood after a long day's work. It's unlikely they'll take the lead in the bedroom. In summary, he's too deep inside his own head.

 

There's a huge difference between showing vulnerability and being a crybaby. And lastly, an emotionally healthy and strong guy is able to let things go and turn the page, rather than bottling feelings up.

[Got it]

My husband is more emotionally demonstrative than I am. I was raised in a pretty emotionally stoic family (outside of anger, we were good at that). He is latin and they are very open.

 

I see this as a strength for him, not a weakness. It doesn't stop him from acting, from leading, from moving the needle nor is he afraid of being himself, hiding a part of him. That takes balls my friends.

 

Someone can be emotionally open and be very strong. And I hate these gender stereotypes as if they are actually true. As a woman I am a "fix it" type and so we annoy the crap out of each other because we want to fix it instead of just listening.

 

And I would much rather sit and ruminate on something over a drink than to talk endlessly on a topic and not do anything. Sh$t or get off the pot.