My MM died in an accident

[ladydesigner]

She'd be wiser to return it and give the betrayed wife and her family no more reason to be in contact with her. End of drama. That is... unless she's into that sort of thing.

 

If it's expensive enough that a person would face grand larceny for stealing it, I think it's safe to consider it a marital asset. And trying to keep it could cost her more than the thing is worth, not only in legal fees, but in hard feelings.

 

If I walk a mile in the betrayed wife's shoes, I'd keep her in court for YEARS over it. I'd never stop. The cheating husband is dead. He's not there to answer up for his betrayal. That leaves the OW to take the brunt of his family's anger and frustration. It's unwise to bait them. And wrong too. THEY are the victims in this scenario. THEY are the ones who have been deceived.

 

Doing the right thing is a win/win.

 

I agree if OP doesn't want to deal with the BS anymore and BS is focused on that ring, that's concerning especially if it's worth $10,000 which could be considered grand theft. I know as a BS if I knew my WH spent that much on MOW with OUR marital money it would be hell or high water.

[BettyDraper]

I think I would feel more sympathetic toward his wife if it weren't for the fact that MM was obviously telling the truth about the abuse he took from her. She did deserve to be left and probably is more angry to have found out that she wasn't able to control him in the way she thought she could. While I can see why she would be upset about the affair, her reaction and abusive behavior shows what type of person MM was dealing with. It's too bad he didn't leave her sooner. If anyone wants to talk about karma, it looks like the abusive wife might've had that bus stop at her house more than a few times.

 

While I agree that his wife was abusive, I don't think that her very angry reaction was unusual or hard to understand. The sweetest and calmest spouse has the capacity to turn into a cyclone of vindictive anger if she finds out her husband is cheating.

 

If my husband was cheating on me, I would not be calm or rational at all. The hurt would be intensified by the fact that I am a damn good wife in every way.

[imperfectangel]

If it was a gift to her then morally it is hers. Does that mean that every time a mm spends money on his ow she is stealing? No. He made her a gift I would "lose" it

[BettyDraper]

We don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg with the BS and MM. Was she always unpleasant, or did having a distracted, cheating husband make her that way? According to OP's previous posts, MM said she was. But he was also a man trying to "get some"; so, maybe, maybe not.

 

And now BS has just found out the reason (the cheating) for some behaviors he may have had with her while the A was going on. While losing her longtime husband in a sudden, traumatic way. It doesn't justify abusive behavior on her part, but, have a little compassion for her, please.

 

OP, I am sorry you are hurting. In reading your previous posts, you have had many hurts your whole life, and definitely, in the A with your MM.

 

From what I read, it appeared your MM was not there when you needed him, had "sessions" with you in his truck, and future faked like a champ. Your ExH and mother where emotionally abusive to you.

 

I mention all that to say this: it seems you have a lot here to mourn in addition to the actual loss of your MM. And it's probably hitting you all at once now. I hope you got into IC, if not, please do, now. I hope you have people who cared for you without judgement that you could confide in. This is a lot to resolve . And you are a mother, you need to be healthy for your son.

 

Please take care of yourself.

 

It is very common for cheating spouses to demonize their wives and husbands when speaking to the AP. It's a way to justifying their actions and helping the AP feel vindicated.

 

Affairs exist in fantasy worlds. Like all relationships, the romance and excitement wanes when the realities of living everyday life come into play. It's easy to see an AP as wonderful when you're not the one washing his socks or seeing him at his worst.

 

I have compassion for both the OP and her MM's wife. I am a very loyal woman so I could never stay with my husband if he cheated on me. I know I wouldn't be a model of graceful maturity if I found out my husband was sleeping with someone else. We would all like to believe that we would handle tough situations in a mature and constructive manner but that's not always what happens in the end.

[ladydesigner]

If it was a gift to her then morally it is hers. Does that mean that every time a mm spends money on his ow she is stealing? No. He made her a gift I would "lose" it

 

$10,000 is a lot I would say it is stealing

[BettyDraper]

She'd be wiser to return it and give the betrayed wife and her family no more reason to be in contact with her. End of drama. That is... unless she's into that sort of thing.

 

If it's expensive enough that a person would face grand larceny for stealing it, I think it's safe to consider it a marital asset. And trying to keep it could cost her more than the thing is worth, not only in legal fees, but in hard feelings.

 

If I walk a mile in the betrayed wife's shoes, I'd keep her in court for YEARS over it. I'd never stop. The cheating husband is dead. He's not there to answer up for his betrayal. That leaves the OW to take the brunt of his family's anger and frustration. It's unwise to bait them. And wrong too. THEY are the victims in this scenario. THEY are the ones who have been deceived.

 

Doing the right thing is a win/win.

 

I agree. As much as the OP has every right to keep her gift, I don't think that it is worth battling with people who are dangerous enough to harass her constantly. I'm scared that they could up the ante in a terrible way.

 

The wife seems like she's vindictive enough to start a lawsuit against the OP over the ring. With everything the OP is going through, I don't think the OP wants to risk any further interaction with those types.

 

OP, see a lawyer about the ring if you have not done so already and you want to keep it.

[Sassy Girl]

If it was a gift to her then morally it is hers. Does that mean that every time a mm spends money on his ow she is stealing? No. He made her a gift I would "lose" it

 

Except in some states where apparently a wife can recoup marital money spent on an affair? Don't know. Clearly it's not black and white. And the wife has every right to be upset. Not only has she lost her husband and the father to her children - her life partner - She's discovered a secret second life. And she will never get her answers because he died. And to find that he spent $10k on his OW is just another slap in the face. She will never resolve this because he's gone.

 

Honesty if it causes so many problems and it means they keep coming after you yore going to have to decide if it's really worth it. It's not him. It's not going to bring him back. Or your child. Or the last 4 years.

 

Although I'd never wish these circumstances in anyone, someone really smart once told me that resilience means turning your setbacks into opportunities. Take the time to grieve- sure. But you now have a chance at a fresh start. Put this all behind you and move on with your life. This sad tragic and horrible episode is now all behind you. It can only get better from here,right?

[ladydesigner]

I agree. As much as the OP has every right to keep her gift, I don't think that it is worth battling with people who are dangerous enough to harass her constantly. I'm scared that they could up the ante in a terrible way.

 

The wife seems like she's vindictive enough to start a lawsuit against the OP over the ring. With everything the OP is going through, I don't think the OP wants to risk any further interaction with those types.

 

OP, see a lawyer about the ring if you have not done so already and you want to keep it.

 

My god this is the BS's money too I just don't understand the logic! I would start a lawsuit too over a $10,000 ring!

[sandylee1]

I'm not quite sure how to say this ...... but are people really expecting that his wife just shuts her mouth and says nothing? Can anyone even imagine thinking that there was no issue with your marriage... only for your husband to tragically die and you discover he's been having a 4 year affair?

 

She must have read hundreds and thousands of text messages with all sorts ..... she's been majorly betrayed and can't get answers from her husband ..... please please cut this poor BW ... now widowed some slack.

 

If you can show compassion towards the OP.. who was having an affair with her H and is distraught by his loss ... just imagine that same loss..by his wife and then add on the infidelity. I'm well aware his wife isn't posting and we can't show her direct compassion ... but think about her and her children.

 

Their memories of husband and father will forever be tainted. If any of you have children ... how would you like your kids to be in the position of the MMs son. The BW is probably also hurting ... because her kids are hurting.

 

This is so very tragic and having seen the other side of this..The BW discover her husband's affair after death ... it's really soul destroying. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. She's left with no answers.

[Sub]

He's gone less than a day, and instead of being in shock and mourning, dealing with this catastrophe... they're going through his stuff after returning from school, finding a receipt for a $10k ring, and deducing you were the one to go after for it. They sound almost unreal.

 

OP, I would give it back. Why carry around this reminder? Nobody's going to believe you "lost" a $10,000 ring. And if you do say you lost it, you're admitting you took possession of it. If it's legally the BW's, I doubt they're going to just say,"Welp! She lost it. That's that, then."

[Ferret]

I am sorry it sounds very hard what your going thu I wouldn't be to upset at them tho I can see both sides and can only image how shocked they were when right after the shock of losing a husband and father they found out they were living a Lie in his life for so long.

 

Honestly if it was me I would have just given back the ring to help pay for the costs of his services and to see that the kids were taken care of that's just me tho..its always hard when someone plays both sides like he did they never expect it to back fire..again im sorry and hope you and the family can move on..

[kieraglass]

She makes well into the six figures. So did he. Their house is worth close to a million dollars. Each kid went to private high school and now attends a prestigious university with no financial aid. There are no issues around money. None whatsoever.

 

It was not bought with marital assets. I know where it came from now. It wasn't her money, it wasn't a joint fund issue.

 

This issue isn't about money. It's about a symbol. And I understand that. I cannot blame her.

 

Diamonds depreciate immediately. You receive a quarter of their value in resale. I know this from my marriage.

 

I was going to return it, I even agreed to. Until all the defamation and lies began. He was no drug addict, no whore. Far from an addict in any way. I couldn't believe the amount of manipulation. She even said she was destitute. With all that income and all those assets. She said she had to put her million dollar home in the market, give me the ring, give me the ring.

 

The house has never been put on the market. I even checked today. She was flying all over the country travelling as she was claiming being destitute to me, as well.

 

Having lost every penny to this affair, and rightfully so, having to move in with family, pregnant, with twenty dollars to my name, after my husband took everything, I know what destitute is.

 

This is not about the value of a piece of jewelry. A ring she'd get little for in resale.

 

I understand that, too, and i do not begrudge her the games. I can't blame her.

 

But it doesn't mean I comply. I would have. I came very close. And then I realized what was going on. And my lawyer intervened. My lawyer was horrified by the ridiculous emails. She forbid me to return it and contacted them immediately. She knows what I've allowed to happen to my life to love this man. She knows their life of luxury, how she is flush with cash and assets and income and life insurance policy. I followed my lawyers advice and stopped the toxicity. I finally began to sleep.

 

I understand that this cursed diamond shouldn't be mine. But I also understand that she has more than many of us on this forum combined. Far more. And that this was a campaign of psychological manipulation and gas lighting.

 

It makes me so very sad.

 

I wish he never gave it to me.

 

I would have loved him living in a shack. It's all absurd.

[Sassy Girl]

She makes well into the six figures. So did he. Their house is worth close to a million dollars. Each kid went to private high school and now attends a prestigious university with no financial aid. There are no issues around money. None whatsoever.

 

It was not bought with marital assets. I know where it came from now. It wasn't her money, it wasn't a joint fund issue.

 

This issue isn't about money. It's about a symbol. And I understand that. I cannot blame her.

 

Diamonds depreciate immediately. You receive a quarter of their value in resale. I know this from my marriage.

 

I was going to return it, I even agreed to. Until all the defamation and lies began. He was no drug addict, no whore. Far from an addict in any way. I couldn't believe the amount of manipulation. She even said she was destitute. With all that income and all those assets. She said she had to put her million dollar home in the market, give me the ring, give me the ring.

 

The house has never been put on the market. I even checked today. She was flying all over the country travelling as she was claiming being destitute to me, as well.

 

Having lost every penny to this affair, and rightfully so, having to move in with family, pregnant, with twenty dollars to my name, after my husband took everything, I know what destitute is.

 

This is not about the value of a piece of jewelry. A ring she'd get little for in resale.

 

I understand that, too, and i do not begrudge her the games. I can't blame her.

 

But it doesn't mean I comply. I would have. I came very close. And then I realized what was going on. And my lawyer intervened. My lawyer was horrified by the ridiculous emails. She forbid me to return it and contacted them immediately. She knows what I've allowed to happen to my life to love this man. She knows their life of luxury, how she is flush with cash and assets and income and life insurance policy. I followed my lawyers advice and stopped the toxicity. I finally began to sleep.

 

I understand that this cursed diamond shouldn't be mine. But I also understand that she has more than many of us on this forum combined. Far more. And that this was a campaign of psychological manipulation and gas lighting.

 

It makes me so very sad.

 

I wish he never gave it to me.

 

I would have loved him living in a shack. It's all absurd.

 

Soo, you know its not right to keep it, you don't want it, you wish he never gave it, it's not about the money (even though you're not rolling in it, and she is) but you're going to keep it anyway?

 

There's so much here that's not making sense to me. But hey, if you think this is what matters, rather than moving on with your life then I wish you the best of luck.

[Ferret]

She makes well into the six figures. So did he. Their house is worth close to a million dollars. Each kid went to private high school and now attends a prestigious university with no financial aid. There are no issues around money. None whatsoever.

 

It was not bought with marital assets. I know where it came from now. It wasn't her money, it wasn't a joint fund issue.

 

This issue isn't about money. It's about a symbol. And I understand that. I cannot blame her.

 

Diamonds depreciate immediately. You receive a quarter of their value in resale. I know this from my marriage.

 

I was going to return it, I even agreed to. Until all the defamation and lies began. He was no drug addict, no whore. Far from an addict in any way. I couldn't believe the amount of manipulation. She even said she was destitute. With all that income and all those assets. She said she had to put her million dollar home in the market, give me the ring, give me the ring.

 

The house has never been put on the market. I even checked today. She was flying all over the country travelling as she was claiming being destitute to me, as well.

 

Having lost every penny to this affair, and rightfully so, having to move in with family, pregnant, with twenty dollars to my name, after my husband took everything, I know what destitute is.

 

This is not about the value of a piece of jewelry. A ring she'd get little for in resale.

 

I understand that, too, and i do not begrudge her the games. I can't blame her.

 

But it doesn't mean I comply. I would have. I came very close. And then I realized what was going on. And my lawyer intervened. My lawyer was horrified by the ridiculous emails. She forbid me to return it and contacted them immediately. She knows what I've allowed to happen to my life to love this man. She knows their life of luxury, how she is flush with cash and assets and income and life insurance policy. I followed my lawyers advice and stopped the toxicity. I finally began to sleep.

 

I understand that this cursed diamond shouldn't be mine. But I also understand that she has more than many of us on this forum combined. Far more. And that this was a campaign of psychological manipulation and gas lighting.

 

It makes me so very sad.

 

I wish he never gave it to me.

 

I would have loved him living in a shack. It's all absurd.

 

Im not going to push the issue as its not the subject of the main thread and I don't want to disrespect his passing and everyone's grieving but can you imagine how broken she must have been when she learned her husband was sleeping with another women behind her back for years?

 

I cant it must have been so painful I would be giving her all the space to rant and rave all she wanes she deserves it so do the children they must feel betrayed and torn something awful a s a child of divorce that I can vouch for..I guess this is the nature of affairs tho people get caut up in their wants and needs and the other side becomes villinised to suit its sad all around.

 

So if its not about the actual value of that ring then why hold into it? spite? it almost sounds like it no offense..don't do that to them or yourself is it really worth it? give it back with the best apology you can muster be the better person remember and honer him and the good times you had and truly move on..

 

Op that ring is only going to wear you down as it sounds like they are not going to quit until they get it so let it go I don't know that's just my view on it from a outsider looking in..and no ive never been in any affairs or on ether side of this fence...

[sandylee1]

Have you seen her wage slip?

 

Whilst you're hurting .... if this man kept you a secret for 4 years ...lied to his wife and family ... do you think there's any chance he may not have been wholly truthful with you? He could have hid a side of himself from you. This wouldn'tbe the first time a MM had more than one OW ... who really knows and does it really matter now anyway.

 

Everyone acts differently.... some may have done worse than she did and some would have done nothing at all.... but I would guess after reading all the messages.. then seeing the ring receipt ... she must have had smoke coming out of her ears.

 

She must be intelligent on some level to earn that much money ... so most rationale thinking people wouldn't put those things in writing ... The things about her husband ... but if it's untrue ... it's not defaming YOU.... it's not your issue what she says about her husband.

 

Whilst you're following your lawyers advice ..... I'd be thinking about other ways they could harm you ... by damaging your reputation. Just expect the unexpected.... I can see her spending $20k.. to battle this out .... you say she has the money ... you don't... this ring could end up costing way more than its worth in legal battles.

 

Not to forget ... that she'll likely have all the sympathy in court.

 

She'll do it.. because she can.... even if it costs more it will be the principal of it .... and your lawyer will be happy to clock the hours.. I don't imagine she's taking your case on pro bono.

[Maddieandtae]

This is all so very sad Kiera:( Your history with the mm was very sad as well, I can't imagine what you are going through. It is very good to hear that you are in therapy and I hope your therapist guides you through this loss in the most positive way that can happen considering the circumstances.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Maddieandtae
...

[LivingWaterPlease]

I was a BW and paid no attention to the money spent on OW, it was the man I cared about and never a word or action did I utter about money. I believe when you love someone and lose them, money fades into the background.

 

I was stalked by a man who'd given me a diamond ring amongst other gifts, many of which were smaller. I went into counseling to try to survive the ordeal after I learned he was stalking me.

 

When he had a friend ask me for the ring back (I had gotten a restraining order on him) my counselor at first told me to give it to him in hopes that he would leave me alone. But, when he learned the guy had given me other gifts he told me not to give the ring back because the guy would just continue to contact me about the other things as an excuse to harass me.

 

I think it's possible that even if you give the ring back, kieraglass, from what you've written about the BW, she may continue to harass you.

 

In your place I wouldn't give the ring to the BW with the expectation that she'd then leave you alone.

 

Imo, giving the ring back is something you must think through and make your own mind up about according to your beliefs, not what anyone else tells you that you should do. I had written what I would do with the ring, were I you, but deleted it because I don't want to try to influence you about it.

 

PS editing to add that it would certainly make sense to check with your lawyer as to whether or not the law where you live will allow you to keep the ring. As sandylee1 mentioned, it wouldn't be worth it to keep it if BW is going to make a legal issue out of it. If, under the law, it's yours, I don't see how she can take you to court about it and gain anything. I doubt her lawyer would go along with that.

Edited March 19, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease

[Ferret]

I think it's possible that even if you give the ring back, kieraglass, from what you've written about the BW, she may continue to harass you.

 

 

But it would be closure in a way she would be 100% free of the family at least legally and have no further ties to them at that point if they did harass her she would be the one with the better leg to stand on as another poster said right now the wife will get most of the sympathy's in any court be that legal or moral that ring is a "tie" to the entire situation..

[Sub]

OP how are you privy to her travel plans?

[LivingWaterPlease]

But it would be closure in a way she would be 100% free of the family at least legally and have no further ties to them at that point if they did harass her she would be the one with the better leg to stand on as another poster said right now the wife will get most of the sympathy's in any court be that legal or moral that ring is a "tie" to the entire situation..

 

If the ring is rightfully hers under the law where she lives, she is now legally free of the family.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm not quite sure how to say this ...... but are people really expecting that his wife just shuts her mouth and says nothing? Can anyone even imagine thinking that there was no issue with your marriage... only for your husband to tragically die and you discover he's been having a 4 year affair?

 

She must have read hundreds and thousands of text messages with all sorts ..... she's been majorly betrayed and can't get answers from her husband ..... please please cut this poor BW ... now widowed some slack.

 

If you can show compassion towards the OP.. who was having an affair with her H and is distraught by his loss ... just imagine that same loss..by his wife and then add on the infidelity. I'm well aware his wife isn't posting and we can't show her direct compassion ... but think about her and her children.

 

Their memories of husband and father will forever be tainted. If any of you have children ... how would you like your kids to be in the position of the MMs son. The BW is probably also hurting ... because her kids are hurting.

 

This is so very tragic and having seen the other side of this..The BW discover her husband's affair after death ... it's really soul destroying. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. She's left with no answers.

 

That's the tragic part when a cheater's dirt is discovered posthumously. There's no opportunity to redeem oneself in the hearts of his loved ones. He ends up being THAT GUY, the guy who catted around on his wife and family... and he never gets the chance to fix it.

 

Kind of sad when you think about it. There are so many MM who do get the opportunity to turn it all around.. correct the problems, regain the love and respect of their families. And sure, some guys squander that opportunity, but the ones who don't come out so much more solid.

 

Sad story.

[Ferret]

If the ring is rightfully hers under the law where she lives, she is now legally free of the family.

 

 

And how is that going to help her move on? every time she sees that ring shes going to not only be reminded of him but of the wife and the struggles over that ring..not to mention as I said the wife can and prob will drag the entire thing out as long as she can..how can all that be healthy for the OP?

 

I guess if we are just digging in and going on a strictly legal stand point then ok but I was also trying to speak about the OPs over all mental health and to help her get some genuine closure..

 

Sure she might be able to legally keep that ring but it seams the wife is also a package deal with it and even if she can keep it she might not go away that quick or easily.

 

If she at least gave it back she might have more room to stand if nothing else on a morel ground more are likely to then have more sympathy for the OP at that point if the harassment continued..again if the value of this ring is not the true issue at hand then why hang onto it?

 

Edit to add...That ring is a symbol for the wife at the moment its the in world embodiment of her husbands cheating if the Op doesn't care about the cash value then why not give it back and let the wife do what she will with it to help her also get some closure if the value is not at hand then it becomes a battle of morels and symbolism and that just cant be healthy on eater side long term..

Edited March 19, 2016 by Ferret

[BettyDraper]

I'm not quite sure how to say this ...... but are people really expecting that his wife just shuts her mouth and says nothing? Can anyone even imagine thinking that there was no issue with your marriage... only for your husband to tragically die and you discover he's been having a 4 year affair?

 

She must have read hundreds and thousands of text messages with all sorts ..... she's been majorly betrayed and can't get answers from her husband ..... please please cut this poor BW ... now widowed some slack.

 

If you can show compassion towards the OP.. who was having an affair with her H and is distraught by his loss ... just imagine that same loss..by his wife and then add on the infidelity. I'm well aware his wife isn't posting and we can't show her direct compassion ... but think about her and her children.

 

Their memories of husband and father will forever be tainted. If any of you have children ... how would you like your kids to be in the position of the MMs son. The BW is probably also hurting ... because her kids are hurting.

 

This is so very tragic and having seen the other side of this..The BW discover her husband's affair after death ... it's really soul destroying. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. She's left with no answers.

 

This. I definitely feel sad for the OP but I must admit that I feel even worse for the wife. Maybe that's because I'm also married?

[BettyDraper]

She makes well into the six figures. So did he. Their house is worth close to a million dollars. Each kid went to private high school and now attends a prestigious university with no financial aid. There are no issues around money. None whatsoever.

 

It was not bought with marital assets. I know where it came from now. It wasn't her money, it wasn't a joint fund issue.

 

This issue isn't about money. It's about a symbol. And I understand that. I cannot blame her.

 

Diamonds depreciate immediately. You receive a quarter of their value in resale. I know this from my marriage.

 

I was going to return it, I even agreed to. Until all the defamation and lies began. He was no drug addict, no whore. Far from an addict in any way. I couldn't believe the amount of manipulation. She even said she was destitute. With all that income and all those assets. She said she had to put her million dollar home in the market, give me the ring, give me the ring.

 

The house has never been put on the market. I even checked today. She was flying all over the country travelling as she was claiming being destitute to me, as well.

 

Having lost every penny to this affair, and rightfully so, having to move in with family, pregnant, with twenty dollars to my name, after my husband took everything, I know what destitute is.

 

This is not about the value of a piece of jewelry. A ring she'd get little for in resale.

 

I understand that, too, and i do not begrudge her the games. I can't blame her.

 

But it doesn't mean I comply. I would have. I came very close. And then I realized what was going on. And my lawyer intervened. My lawyer was horrified by the ridiculous emails. She forbid me to return it and contacted them immediately. She knows what I've allowed to happen to my life to love this man. She knows their life of luxury, how she is flush with cash and assets and income and life insurance policy. I followed my lawyers advice and stopped the toxicity. I finally began to sleep.

 

I understand that this cursed diamond shouldn't be mine. But I also understand that she has more than many of us on this forum combined. Far more. And that this was a campaign of psychological manipulation and gas lighting.

 

It makes me so very sad.

 

I wish he never gave it to me.

 

I would have loved him living in a shack. It's all absurd.

 

So because your MM and his family are affluent, it means that you should keep the ring even though you don't even want it? I'm not sure that I understand.

 

Is this about "winning" for you because of how your MM's widow has reacted?

 

Sometimes when loved ones die, we are tempted to see them as saints. If a man can cheat on his wife for many years, he is capable of the same manipulation that you are experiencing from his widow right now.

[Doublegold]

Jeez a man is dead and all I see are women cackling over the gift of a ring and money whilst the OP has stated her grief.

 

STOP!