My MM died in an accident

[Ferret]

Jeez a man is dead and all I see are women cackling over the gift of a ring and money whilst the OP has stated her grief.

 

STOP!

Actually there's no "cackling" only a few trying to help the Op but you are right a man passed and now there is a lot of turmoil all over because of the choices that man made sadly that just doesn't go away that easily..

[Mrs. John Adams]

I work in the funeral industry....it brings out the best in people....it brings out the worst in people.

 

 

I would return the ring and be done with his family....you don't need the ring. You have your memories...

 

His family is hurting...they have lost their husband and father....and then they find out he has another family...YOU. They are not thinking clearly...and they are angry....you are still here...so they lash out at you because they cannot lash out at him.

 

Give them what they want....understand where they are coming from ...and be the better person.....cherish your memories....heal...and move on with your life.

 

Again you have my deepest sympathy....and so does his other family....

 

They can take the ring....they cannot take your memories......

[NewLeaf512]

And how is that going to help her move on? every time she sees that ring shes going to not only be reminded of him but of the wife and the struggles over that ring..not to mention as I said the wife can and prob will drag the entire thing out as long as she can..how can all that be healthy for the OP?

 

I guess if we are just digging in and going on a strictly legal stand point then ok but I was also trying to speak about the OPs over all mental health and to help her get some genuine closure..

 

Sure she might be able to legally keep that ring but it seams the wife is also a package deal with it and even if she can keep it she might not go away that quick or easily.

 

If she at least gave it back she might have more room to stand if nothing else on a morel ground more are likely to then have more sympathy for the OP at that point if the harassment continued..again if the value of this ring is not the true issue at hand then why hang onto it?

 

Edit to add...That ring is a symbol for the wife at the moment its the in world embodiment of her husbands cheating if the Op doesn't care about the cash value then why not give it back and let the wife do what she will with it to help her also get some closure if the value is not at hand then it becomes a battle of morels and symbolism and that just cant be healthy on eater side long term..

 

 

If it's bought with No spousal assets it's OP to keep. Anyone can try to claim it but it doesn't matter. If OP gets it appraised for resale and it's under $10,000 likely to be small claims court where OP would represent herself and not pay.

 

However MM family has no ties to OP nor does she to them. OP has one token from her love and it's that ring. If you read the backstory her life financially was destroyed by her behaviour and her love. She won't have a life with MM now. She is starting a new life. A ring means nothing now.

 

OP it seems MM was thinking about your future when he passed. I am guessing he'd want you to have the best future you can without you. Sell the ring. Use the money towards your new life. If the ring is gone there is nothing to fight for. Use some of the money to buy a decent watch. Something you wear every day that reminds you of the time you spent with him.

 

He betrayed his family. You know this. You participated (like many of us here) you know that too. You can't change it. But you don't have to be the emotional punching bag for the feelings they have for MM simply because he isn't here to deal with it. It's terrible for all involved. Hug

NL

[whichwayisup]

You're right it isn't about the money at all, it's about what that ring represents. Though that money is their marital money, whatever finances they have, is combined, even if it's separate bank accounts. I'm sure she's listed as his beneficiary on that account that paid for the ring.

 

Your reasons to hang onto the ring vs her reasons to want it returned are both valid. I'm worried for you that this is going to be an outright war and it'll do more damage to you, more that you really shouldn't have to put up with right now. Everybody's emotions are raw and charged up and that makes a bad combo in a situation like this.

 

I'm not sure if hanging onto the ring in the long run is best for you. Even if you sell it or donate it or donate the money.

 

Try to stay off social media/ block them all and if need be change your cell number.

[Ladyjane14]

Jeez a man is dead and all I see are women cackling over the gift of a ring and money whilst the OP has stated her grief.

 

STOP!

 

I think you might be missing the point. The drama ENDS when the OP returns the marital assets and gives the wounded family no more reason for complaint. She can then move on with her life. The deceased MM's family will never forgive her, but she will no longer be presenting them with an active target for their resentment.

 

Like I said earlier, if I walk a mile in the widow's shoes... I'm never going to stop making the OW suffer until I get my due. And it's not about the ring or the money, it's about not letting her take another damned thing from me. She can ignore the BW input; that's her prerogative. I wouldn't though, if I were her.

[angelcake]

If the drama is still ongoing, I doubt handing over the ring will make it end. The BS can just find other ways to come at her.

 

I wouldn't give it back, either. Not if my attorney said it was mine to keep legally. The MM gave it to her as a symbol of his love; he wanted her to have it. If she wants to keep it, she should.

 

I would guess giving it back would be like handing part of MM back, and she isn't ready to do that, and may never be. Let her handle her grief in the way she needs to.

 

Also, BS getting that ring back isn't really going to make her feel any better. If anything, seeing it is going to make her even more angry and hostile. Kiera, keep the ring.

[bathtub-row]

What intrigues me is that some people seem to think that the BS's reaction is normal and understandable. I totally disagree with this. I had a husband who cheated on me so I speak from experience. While I would've been shocked and heartbroken by such a discovery right after losing my husband, I can assure you that the last thing I would do is lash out at the OW. And the very, very last thing I'd do is set such an example for my children. If nothing else gave this woman pause, that alone should have stopped her. But it didn't. It was completely awful behavior.

 

The person she should be blaming is her husband. He's the one who emotionally deserted her and he's the one who broke his promises to her. Lashing out at the OW simply shows what she's really made of. I don't wonder at all why MM was going to leave her. What I wonder about is what took him so long to do it.

[kieraglass]

When i became pregnant, and we were both married, I called him hysterical. He told me, please don't cry, we'll be together soon. Don't abort. Do this.

 

"This will give us such a chance at bliss. I envision us putting our children to bed, your little boy, our son, and watching movies together, cuddling, such a life. Stop crying. This is a beautiful thing. "

 

The baby died in my hands alone five months later, him still married. He didn't come to the hospital after I was rushed there by rescue. My best friend was frantic on the phone with him. He was afraid to come, someone at the hospital might know him... he was very known and connected. . I went through it alone, and the next morning, they discharged me, and i drove home alone.

 

He apologized profusely for over a year, for that horror. I was a sht. You deserved better. I'm so sorry I was afraid.

 

I can tell you every song in the radio that played during that ride home alone. How I had to pull over twice, faint. How I stopped at a fast food restaurant to pee and bled buckets all over the floor when i stood up. Had to wipe the pools up with paper towels bawling. Alone.

 

He was never there.

 

He gave me a ring.

 

It means nothing. Nothing at all.

 

He played us both. We were both a game.

 

I chucked my entire life away for him, because...he told me to. A year and a half later, he remained there. Baby dead, me, divorced. Me living at my mother's with nothing. And then he died.

 

Like I give a sht about a piece of jewelry after everything.

She and I were both victims of his lies and his double life and his deceit.

 

I believed him, his promises, and threw myself into the void.

 

I feel nothing.

 

It's just a ring.

 

It means about as much as his dead son.

 

He never saw him. I showed him photos.

[BettyDraper]

Actually there's no "cackling" only a few trying to help the Op but you are right a man passed and now there is a lot of turmoil all over because of the choices that man made sadly that just doesn't go away that easily..

 

I don't see any laughter either. This story is so sad...nothing funny about it.

 

It's just so much hurt going around. The OP would do well to find a therapist who specializes in grief and loss.

 

It will take years to heal from such an ordeal.

Edited March 19, 2016 by BettyDraper

[bathtub-row]

As far as the ring is concerned, MM wanted her to have it and gave it to her as a gift. End of story.

 

To say that it's theft is ridiculous. This would mean that any gift that MM bought for anyone else that his wife had no knowledge of would also be theft - whether it was a Xmas gift for his secretary, his boss, a buddy of his, his aunt, whatever. The only reason Kiera is being targeted is because of the price of the gift, because MM was in love with her, and because that particular gift carried a meaning that went very deep.

 

This whole thing is incredibly sad because MM has been taken away, unable to fulfill his intent to be with Kiera, and taken from his other loved ones. While he may have done things in a backward manner, I think it's obvious that he was trying to make things right and begin to live authentically. I pray he rests in peace, and that the heartache that has been left in his wake subsides into calmer seas.

[bathtub-row]

When i became pregnant, and we were both married, I called him hysterical. He told me, please don't cry, we'll be together soon. Don't abort. Do this.

 

"This will give us such a chance at bliss. I envision us putting our children to bed, your little boy, our son, and watching movies together, cuddling, such a life. Stop crying. This is a beautiful thing. "

 

The baby died in my hands alone five months later, him still married. He didn't come to the hospital after I was rushed there by rescue. My best friend was frantic on the phone with him. He was afraid to come, someone at the hospital might know him... he was very known and connected. . I went through it alone, and the next morning, they discharged me, and i drove home alone.

 

He apologized profusely for over a year, for that horror. I was a sht. You deserved better. I'm so sorry I was afraid.

 

I can tell you every song in the radio that played during that ride home alone. How I had to pull over twice, faint. How I stopped at a fast food restaurant to pee and bled buckets all over the floor when i stood up. Had to wipe the pools up with paper towels bawling. Alone.

 

He was never there.

 

He gave me a ring.

 

It means nothing. Nothing at all.

 

He played us both. We were both a game.

 

I chucked my entire life away for him, because...he told me to. A year and a half later, he remained there. Baby dead, me, divorced. Me living at my mother's with nothing. And then he died.

 

Like I give a sht about a piece of jewelry after everything.

She and I were both victims of his lies and his double life and his deceit.

 

I believed him, his promises, and threw myself into the void.

 

I feel nothing.

 

It's just a ring.

 

It means about as much as his dead son.

 

He never saw him. I showed him photos.

 

Kiera, I understand what you're feeling but you continued to see him and accepted the ring from him. Surely you felt a great deal, didn't you? And it seemed that he was sincere about doing something about being with you.

 

I'm not making excuses for MM but if he was well-known in the public eye and had a wife who was obviously capable of going off the deep end, then I can understand why it took him awhile to make the decision to leave his marriage. I don't think you were a pawn but, yes, that was very bad and sad thing that you had to go through that alone. I think he was just incredibly torn and didn't know how to make things right. Those are just my thoughts.

[Sassy Girl]

Kiera, I understand what you're feeling but you continued to see him and accepted the ring from him. Surely you felt a great deal, didn't you? And it seemed that he was sincere about doing something about being with you.

 

I'm not making excuses for MM but if he was well-known in the public eye and had a wife who was obviously capable of going off the deep end, then I can understand why it took him awhile to make the decision to leave his marriage. I don't think you were a pawn but, yes, that was very bad and sad thing that you had to go through that alone. I think he was just incredibly torn and didn't know how to make things right. Those are just my thoughts.

 

Don't judge the BS for how she behaves in the midst of this grief... Have you experienced the grief and betrayal all at once like BS? BS was he victim. Not MM and not OP either.

 

I don't see the MM decided to leave at all. He bought her off with a ring... Apparently the cost of which is just a drop in the ocean for them. He gave her words, a ring and no action. He never left. He never "decided" anything. Just one big old grand gesture and he had OP back where he wanted her.

 

The woman is living with her mother and struggling to make ends meet. What good is a $10k ring? Can she eat it? Can she secure her own apartment? Pay for college fees? No. Did MM actually use that money to secure a future for them? Put a down payment on a property? Lease an apartment? Buy some furniture? No. He was never leaving. He was placating her. Then he died.

 

Let's not over romanticise this anymore than it has been. He was a spineless creep who left his "souL mate" in a hospital to deal with the death of their son. Weeks after giving birth he drove her to a strip club for a lap dance. All that money and he would have sex in his car and not even shell out for a hotel room.

 

Torn? Please. Love? He only thing he loved was himself.

 

Both women were duped. I hope both of them find it in them to move on with their lives - because he's certainly not worth the drama that both of them are engaging in right now. Not worth it.

[BettyDraper]

When i became pregnant, and we were both married, I called him hysterical. He told me, please don't cry, we'll be together soon. Don't abort. Do this.

 

"This will give us such a chance at bliss. I envision us putting our children to bed, your little boy, our son, and watching movies together, cuddling, such a life. Stop crying. This is a beautiful thing. "

 

The baby died in my hands alone five months later, him still married. He didn't come to the hospital after I was rushed there by rescue. My best friend was frantic on the phone with him. He was afraid to come, someone at the hospital might know him... he was very known and connected. . I went through it alone, and the next morning, they discharged me, and i drove home alone.

 

He apologized profusely for over a year, for that horror. I was a sht. You deserved better. I'm so sorry I was afraid.

 

I can tell you every song in the radio that played during that ride home alone. How I had to pull over twice, faint. How I stopped at a fast food restaurant to pee and bled buckets all over the floor when i stood up. Had to wipe the pools up with paper towels bawling. Alone.

 

He was never there.

 

He gave me a ring.

 

It means nothing. Nothing at all.

 

He played us both. We were both a game.

 

I chucked my entire life away for him, because...he told me to. A year and a half later, he remained there. Baby dead, me, divorced. Me living at my mother's with nothing. And then he died.

 

Like I give a sht about a piece of jewelry after everything.

She and I were both victims of his lies and his double life and his deceit.

 

I believed him, his promises, and threw myself into the void.

 

I feel nothing.

 

It's just a ring.

 

It means about as much as his dead son.

 

He never saw him. I showed him photos.

 

Oh no! So awful that you went through that trauma alone.

 

If the ring means nothing and only serves as a reminder of what you endured, then keeping it will only hurt you even more and giving it back would help you in the long run.

 

It seems like your emotions are all over the place which is normal for such an awful chain of events.

[BettyDraper]

Don't judge the BS for how she behaves in the midst of this grief... Have you experienced the grief and betrayal all at once like BS? BS was he victim. Not MM and not OP either.

 

I don't see the MM decided to leave at all. He bought her off with a ring... Apparently the cost of which is just a drop in the ocean for them. He gave her words, a ring and no action. He never left. He never "decided" anything. Just one big old grand gesture and he had OP back where he wanted her.

 

The woman is living with her mother and struggling to make ends meet. What good is a $10k ring? Can she eat it? Can she secure her own apartment? Pay for college fees? No. Did MM actually use that money to secure a future for them? Put a down payment on a property? Lease an apartment? Buy some furniture? No. He was never leaving. He was placating her. Then he died.

 

Let's not over romanticise this anymore than it has been. He was a spineless creep who left his "souL mate" in a hospital to deal with the death of their son. Weeks after giving birth he drove her to a strip club for a lap dance. All that money and he would have sex in his car and not even shell out for a hotel room.

 

Torn? Please. Love? He only thing he loved was himself.

 

Both women were duped. I hope both of them find it in them to move on with their lives - because he's certainly not worth the drama that both of them are engaging in right now. Not worth it.

 

I can't and won't believe that someone could actually be this cruel.

 

So much nope. Please tell me that's not real.

[Sassy Girl]

I can't and won't believe that someone could actually be this cruel.

 

So much nope. Please tell me that's not real.

 

It's all in her previous posts.

[Ferret]

I don't see any laughter either. This story is so sad...nothing funny about it.

 

It's just so much hurt going around. The OP would do well to find a therapist who specializes in grief and loss.

 

It will take years to heal from such an ordeal.

Nup never said anyone was laughing its def very sad...

[R.Gant]

I chucked my entire life away for him, because...he told me to. A year and a half later, he remained there. Baby dead, me, divorced. Me living at my mother's with nothing. And then he died.

 

I'm sorry for your loss. You are in my prayers.

 

I'd like to point out,

 

You are not "with nothing!"

 

You still have a son and he needs you.

You may have an angry mom but you still have a mother that sheltered you.

You may not have your own house, but you still have a roof over your head and bed to sleep in.

You may not have a husband, but your son still has a father.

 

believe that things will get better. they must and you must make them happen. for your sake and for the sake of your son.

 

and also You are an educated young woman with a college degree something you cant undervalue these days.

 

many people have it worse believe me. many single parents have it far worse.

Edited March 19, 2016 by R.Gant

[NewLeaf512]

This whole thread has me a bit baffled. OP is in bereavement. Grief is a complicated thing. My husband was a sociopath who tried to murder me. He went on a shooting spree then killed himself. I mentally went from being thankful he was dead, to utter shell shock, to complete despair because he had been my husband. Feelings are the opposite of rational. OP if your emotions are swinging all over I completely understand. I asked myself "why?!!" Several hundred times a day for a decade.

 

Putting myself in BW shoes (and I was once a BW) I see no healthy purpose for her to have the ring. I do not know her so I merely offer a hypothetical set of ideas:

 

Ring is returned. It's not as nice a BW ring. She then hates MM more for OP getting a "better" ring. She lives with the fact that H shopped and chose that ring for OP and imagines all kinds of scenarios.

 

BW feels that the ring should be hers. She wears it.

 

BW wants to punish OP by stripping her of anything that would "tie" her to MM invalidating OP's existence as a person of some meaning to her H.

 

There are so many more ideas, but we here will never know. I think it's probably something close to the last one, a punitive way of dehumanising OP. Here's the thing: OP is entitled to her grief. She is entitled to her memories and even if the ring was a rock picked up off the ground and given to her, it was a gift to her. The shunning OP and banning her from the services was well within the rights of BW. This harassment is not. If BW thinks she has legal standing let her file a claim in small claims court. If she does not I dare say that OP has a criminal complaint if it doesn't cease and immediately desist.

 

Perhaps the best course of action is to not engage in the family of MM at all and be in your bereavement. Sending hugs

 

Legally there is no theft.

[Ferret]

, a punitive way of dehumanising OP. .

Im sorry but I have to ask isn't sleeping with the BWs husband a way of dehumanizing her? just saying..Plus I don't know if they were married wouldn't ALL funds then be joint marital funds? that kind of makes sense to me even more so since we are talking a good chunk of change 10k not like it was a 50 Walmart special.

 

I have to say im kind of surprised at the amount of people telling her to hang onto a item she herself says has no meaning to her yet it might help give the BW some closure hate to say it but it almost seams spiteful on some level but I guess you get both sides here OW and BW so that's to be expected?

[NewLeaf512]

Im sorry but I have to ask isn't sleeping with the BWs husband a way of dehumanizing her? just saying..Plus I don't know if they were married wouldn't ALL funds then be joint marital funds? that kind of makes sense to me even more so since we are talking a good chunk of change 10k not like it was a 50 Walmart special.

 

I have to say im kind of surprised at the amount of people telling her to hang onto a item she herself says has no meaning to her yet it might help give the BW some closure hate to say it but it almost seams spiteful on some level but I guess you get both sides here OW and BW so that's to be expected?

 

Not all funds are marital funds. The value is unimportant but contextual. Perhaps to you $10,000 is a huge some of money, but perhaps for me it is not.

 

No one "gives" you closure. You "give" yourself closure.

 

If you believe that OP dehumanised BW your theory then suggests it's just fine for BW to dehumanise OP. I believe this to be flawed thinking.

 

The person whom all these feelings surround is deceased. The OP is the effigy for BW upon which she is heaping anger because there is no one else.

 

I'd be shocked if a solicitor in any land would take this matter of grief and betrayal to the court for adjudication. In part the role of a solicitor is to solve a problem with the sole interest of his/her client at heart. Keeping an open wound bleeding is not in the best interest of anyone involved.

 

BW has her family and hopefully a therapist to deal with this catastrophe.

 

This board is support for OW/OM. Therefore my aim is to support OP, as I believe is needed here.

 

NL

[Capris]

I am so sorry for your loss and what you are going through!!

 

(((((((((((HUGSSS))))))))))))

 

You will get pass this and everything will be a whole lot better than before!!!

[georgia girl]

Kiera,

 

There are lots and lots of good reasons to listen to NL. ?

 

Most of all, she makes sense. I am not an OW or a BS but I am happily married. It's still a new enough marriage that anytime we travel without the other, I always have that momentary abyss where I think of the worst that can happen and it makes me so sad. So I get where his wife is coming from. The worst happened and it was even worse than she imagined. The son is also as passionate. However, you are also grieving and the worst happened again and again to you as well.

 

From a legal standpoint, NL is correct. It's not a marital asset and is yours. But froM an emotional standpoint, I see no good in keeping the ring issue alive. Everyone now has to heal and deal with their grief with their support system, including the anger that is a part of grief. Continuing to open wounds around this ring - whether you gave it back or not -'will not help anyone. The lawyers have spoken, keep the ring and have very strict no contact with them. In the long run, the absence of any contact will help each party heal. The ring may continue to be a sore spot for his family, but it's really only a sore spot in disguise. The real issue for them is your existence and your relationship. There is no way to assuage that and responding to anger isn't going to make it go away or even get better. They are certainly not going to somehow think better of you because of the ring.

 

I would keep it now because it is probably the most significant token of your love and relationship. But as you heal, I think it would make some sense to look at the ring's value as a little seed money for your future. Perhaps when you are ready, you can sell it and it will be MM's small way of having provided for you. It could give you a little comfort in the future.

 

Mostly, you need to grieve. You have experienced two horrible losses in a short time and those losses were the two most striking symbols of your wished-for new life. That must be awfully defeating. Find a support group. Grieving support groups don't need to know who he was as in name and marital status, but they need to know that he was your partner and the father of your lost child. Those are peers that will help you manage grief.

 

 

My biggest of hugs to you!!! Please feel some warmth and comfort from me today.

[minimariah]

The person she should be blaming is her husband.

 

& she probably is --- but he isn't alive anymore. so she directed her anger at the next person - the OW. that behavior in THOSE circumstances is expected & cannot be compared to any other situation.

 

He's the one who emotionally deserted her and he's the one who broke his promises to her.

 

who broke what promises and vows - means nothing. folks who never made ANY promises to you and don't even know you can absolutely be responsible for hurting you, too. never understood this argument.

 

Lashing out at the OW simply shows what she's really made of.

 

does that mean that the OP being the OW shows what SHE's really made of? the MM married this horrible and abusive woman and stayed with her for years -- doesn't that tell us something about what HE's made of or we're going to pretend like our choices in romantic partners show nothing about our character?

 

I don't wonder at all why MM was going to leave her. What I wonder about is what took him so long to do it.

 

that's the saddest part - he never left her and he probably wasn't going to. & if the wife truly WAS abusive... well, in that - it should be obvious why it took him so long.

 

other than wife - his son lashed out, too. what does that tell us about those kids & the MM's role as their father?

 

the OP isn't ANYWHERE near being okay -- she has a history of abusive relationships and she's romanticizing the last one (the one with the MM): after EVERYTHING this man put her through... she took a piece of jewelry and his proposal as something relevant. her 1st post about their love and last are completely different; she paints herself as a helpless victim most of the time... while heavily romanticizing the entire story in an almost poetic way.

 

in reality - the MM was ABUSIVE to the OP & telling her or trying to convince her that was love and worth it is damaging and you're not helping her at all.

 

all of that needs to be addressed - otherwise, she'll end up in the same relationship with the same abusive pattern. to those who see that, painfully obvious - it's almost impossible to NOT say anything, even in the sensitive thread like this.

Edited March 19, 2016 by minimariah

[Ladyjane14]

Not all funds are marital funds. The value is unimportant but contextual. Perhaps to you $10,000 is a huge some of money, but perhaps for me it is not.

 

No one "gives" you closure. You "give" yourself closure.

 

If you believe that OP dehumanised BW your theory then suggests it's just fine for BW to dehumanise OP. I believe this to be flawed thinking.

 

The person whom all these feelings surround is deceased. The OP is the effigy for BW upon which she is heaping anger because there is no one else.

 

I'd be shocked if a solicitor in any land would take this matter of grief and betrayal to the court for adjudication. In part the role of a solicitor is to solve a problem with the sole interest of his/her client at heart. Keeping an open wound bleeding is not in the best interest of anyone involved.

BW has her family and hopefully a therapist to deal with this catastrophe.

 

This board is support for OW/OM. Therefore my aim is to support OP, as I believe is needed here.

 

NL

 

....which is WHY the OP shouldn't paint a big bulls-eye on her forehead and then act surprised when drama ensues.

 

Sorry, but there are only two choices here. She can continue to stir the pot, or she can gracefully remove herself as a target and move on with her life. One needn't have involved themselves with a married person to see which is the better option.

[Robert]

Folks, moderation has had to delete about half the posts in this thread due to cruel, shameful, personal attacks.

 

No further infractions will be handed out in this thread.

 

We are going to straight to banning members that post personal attacks or lack civility and respect towards other posters in this thread.

 

Remember to post to be supportive or move on to somewhere else.

 

~6

 

Another reminder, folks. If you've lost your posting privileges and don't know why, see above. ~6